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  #1341  
Old 03-15-2015, 05:50 PM
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Well if I just claimed "she sacrificed her reputation to help the poor" without explaining why, that will cause a lot of misunderstanding. So I will risk my ID's life to explain a little more here.

For both vacations with Doid in August, Diana had tipped off a paparazzi Jason Fraser to take intimate photo of her and Dodi on the boat, including the "kiss photo". Basically, it can be said the craziness of media fanzy on her and Dodi was orchestrated by her. Here is the article

Photographer Jason Fraser opens up on his special relationship with Princess Diana | Daily Mail Online

However, this didn't do any good to herself. Especially, Aug 14, Dodi's engaged girlfriend Kelly Fisher launched a very public lawsuit against Dodi, and sold her story to a tabloid for $200,000. And the tabloid newspaper published an interview with her and went on to serialize Fisher's story with a name "Kelly, Her Own True Story", just like "Diana, Her Own True Story" . On the night of Aug 20, when Diana came back from the holiday with Rosa, she talked to her friend Michael Barrymore for two and a half hours. She told him the affair with Dodi was serious, but did NOT say she was in love.

Quote:
"She was `nervous and jittery', wanting to discuss the whole Dodi situation...There had been days of revelations since then. Diana had to give Kelly's claims serious thought. This was not like her previous romances, conducted in secret, with no one to think of but herself. This was a very public affair which could have repercussions, both for herself as a Royal figure and for her sons, one of whom would succeed to the throne" -- Michael Barrymore
It is silly to think Diana didn't know the consequence of being seen with Dodi again at this moment. With any common sense, Diana should stop this relationship with Dodi, or at least wait until things cool down and stop being seen with Dodi for a while. Otherwise it would not only damage her reputation but also embarrass her sons. Nevertheless, while there wasn't any reason to be hurry in this new relationship, at this tornado moment, she decided to go for another vacation with Dodi. In the morning of Aug 21st, she did the Le Monde interview, and said the famous phrase "Nothing bring me more happiness than trying to help the most vulnerable people in the society." Then at the same night, she set off for the vacation. And again she tipped off Jason Fraser to take their intimate photos, and kept him up to date about where she and Dodi could be seen.

The situation is like, someone came out claim to the world that Diana was playing a third-person role in their relationship. As a response, not only Diana didn't stop the relationship, to the contrary of anyone would expect, immediately she invited the whole world herself to see how she played this third-person role. This is like committing a reputation suicide, without even a proper reason. As such a smart PR people like her, that is really out of character.

Basically, through the whole Aug of 1997, her state of mind was to "attract as much attention as she can AT ANY COST". The question is WHY? Then we need to look at another thing she was planning at the same time. If you look at the posts started here Diana's Charity Work and Patronages, you will know that she had set a goal for herself, which was to make the Mine Ban Treaty to include strong language on rehabilitating mine victims. This was a very difficult mission. You can find out why it was difficult here http://mercury.ethz.ch/serviceengine...+Speak+Out.pdf. But she was very determined to achieve her goal, you can see it from her thank-you notes.

The final draft of the Mine Ban Treaty would be negotiated in Oslo, Sep 1-18, 1997, which is merely several days from her second holiday with Dodi. Although it was not easy to make policy maker changed their mind, but the mine victims were absolutely entitled to certain form of rehabilitation assistance LEGALLY. But they were too weak, too scattered, and their voice was too small to be heard. Chance was slim that their rightful interest would be appreciated if there was not a loud voice to speak for them, to attract press coverage of their stories, as what Diana said at the beginning of her speech:

Quote:
"For the mine is a stealthy killer. Long after conflict is ended, its innocent victims die or are wounded singly, in countries of which we hear little. Their lonely fate is never reported ..."
In her Le Monde interview, Diana defined her role as a "messenger". It is not that she had any political power which could single-handly change the mind of policy makers, it is because of the virtue of fact that the mine victims were completely entitled to their own right. What the victims needed was a loud voice to speak for them, to make the world notice that their legal right had been neglected. That explains why Diana would have been so adamantly trying to seek as much attention and publicity as possible before the Oslo conference. It seems she not only wanted the attention from Britain, but also from the whole world. The louder her voice was, the more people can hear the victims' voice. She was their messenger.

But in order to make her voice loud at that moment, very unfortunately, because of the Kelly Fisher's case, she had to sacrifice a great deal of her reputation. That is why I said "she sacrificed her reputation to help the poor".

Actually this is her own words to her work partner when she was in Bosnia (Aug 8-10) visiting the mine victims there,

Quote:
The reporters and photographers have made my life horrible, so I would like to make their life horrible by taking them to places they normally otherwise would not visit and covering issues they normally otherwise would not cover.
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  #1342  
Old 03-15-2015, 06:40 PM
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Not quite - she was going to resign for ALL of her charities but was told that she wouldn't be able to continue to live at KP rent free if she wasn't doing some work and so she decided to keep a few.

She actually announced that she was resigning from all but backtracked a few days later when she realised that she would lose her home if she did that.

She had to keep working in the charity field to pay the rent.
Can anyone remember what happened after Diana's 1992 (I think) announcement during a speech that she was withdrawing from public life? I remember we didn't see her for a while, then she started appearing in public without royal protection and everything ended up going back to normal. Are we saying now that she decided again a few years later to withdraw from public life once more?
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  #1343  
Old 03-15-2015, 07:16 PM
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Can anyone remember what happened after Diana's 1992 (I think) announcement during a speech that she was withdrawing from public life? I remember we didn't see her for a while, then she started appearing in public without royal protection and everything ended up going back to normal. Are we saying now that she decided again a few years later to withdraw from public life once more?
Diana wanted to step back from public life for a while, because she was going though a very difficult time in her private life. She knew she would never been able to totally withdraw from public life.

People think that Diana just dropped all her charities, but she really wanted to focus on a select few that she could actively be involved in. She was about to embark on an aids campaign with President's Bill Clinton and Nelson Mandela. Just before her passing, Diana was on the verge of turning her life around.

I feel bad Diana never got a chance to turn her narrative around.
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  #1344  
Old 03-15-2015, 07:50 PM
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Can anyone remember what happened after Diana's 1992 (I think) announcement during a speech that she was withdrawing from public life? I remember we didn't see her for a while, then she started appearing in public without royal protection and everything ended up going back to normal. Are we saying now that she decided again a few years later to withdraw from public life once more?
It was 1993 when she made the announcement.

She stopped for a few weeks as she was told - no work = no home.

This was before the divorce negotiations began - even in passing let alone in earnest.

The divorce was inevitable at that stage - and there were behind the scenes talks between the lawyers beginning but nothing official until she did the Panorama interview in which she admitted adultery herself and accusing her husband on not being up to the job.
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  #1345  
Old 03-15-2015, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It was 1993 when she made the announcement.

She stopped for a few weeks as she was told - no work = no home.

This was before the divorce negotiations began - even in passing let alone in earnest.

The divorce was inevitable at that stage - and there were behind the scenes talks between the lawyers beginning but nothing official until she did the Panorama interview in which she admitted adultery herself and accusing her husband on not being up to the job.
Both Charles and Diana's interviews in 94-95 pretty much did them in. They needed some clarity and the divorce had to happen. I'm glad their bitterness ended though. None of their silly actions could continue.
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  #1346  
Old 03-15-2015, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It was 1993 when she made the announcement.

She stopped for a few weeks as she was told - no work = no home.
Bertie, would you please tell us your source for this ultimatum. Sarah Bradford's book tells us that the Queen and Prince Philip backed her 1993 decision.
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  #1347  
Old 03-15-2015, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Can anyone remember what happened after Diana's 1992 (I think) announcement during a speech that she was withdrawing from public life? I remember we didn't see her for a while, then she started appearing in public without royal protection and everything ended up going back to normal. Are we saying now that she decided again a few years later to withdraw from public life once more?
I can't find the number of public appearances she made in 1994 and 1995 but, IIRC, at the end of 1993, she gave her famous "time and space" speech in which she said she needed to focus on healing in her private life. At that point, she cut back on her public appearances and never got back up to her pre-separation levels. After the divorce, Diana formally resigned from 100 charities and remained a patron of just 6.

A lot of things were going on but I find it hard to believe that Diana would have been forced to leave Kensington Palace under any circumstances. The royal family and the government would have been very concerned not only for Diana's safety, but for the security of her sons while they were with her. If she had refused to make any public appearances, Charles probably would have paid the full market rent for the Kensington flat.
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  #1348  
Old 03-15-2015, 10:21 PM
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She was the mother of the future King.

What I find fascinating, especially after watching the special on CNN on Prince Charles and his marriage to Camilla, is that she obviously had some grooming and intense coaching before marrying Charles. If you watch Diana's very early speeches as Princess of Wales, she was almost shaking from head to foot. For a twenty year old or twenty one year old, it must've been terrifying.
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  #1349  
Old 03-15-2015, 10:50 PM
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I can't find the number of public appearances she made in 1994 and 1995 but, IIRC, at the end of 1993, she gave her famous "time and space" speech in which she said she needed to focus on healing in her private life. At that point, she cut back on her public appearances and never got back up to her pre-separation levels. After the divorce, Diana formally resigned from 100 charities and remained a patron of just 6.
Someone once posted a tally of her engagements and she did 42 in 1994 and 127 in 1995.
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  #1350  
Old 03-16-2015, 02:24 AM
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She was the mother of the future King.

What I find fascinating, especially after watching the special on CNN on Prince Charles and his marriage to Camilla, is that she obviously had some grooming and intense coaching before marrying Charles. If you watch Diana's very early speeches as Princess of Wales, she was almost shaking from head to foot. For a twenty year old or twenty one year old, it must've been terrifying.
The DoC had an apprenticeship before her engagement, Diana was left to sink or swim during her engagement and early years of marriage. It took many years before she gained a great deal of confidence and experience as Princess of Wales. In the end, she did a mighty fine job.
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  #1351  
Old 03-16-2015, 02:32 AM
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The DoC had an apprenticeship before her engagement, Diana was left to sink or swim during her engagement and early years of marriage. It took many years before she gained a great deal of confidence and experience as Princess of Wales. In the end, she did a mighty fine job.
That's Diana's version of events.

The other version is that the Royal Family tried to help her - Susan Hussey and Prince Charles Private Secretary tried to give her training in what was required but she would not listen.

I am not suggesting Diana had the benefit of the long apprenticeship that Sophie, Camilla and Kate did. But on one version of events, she certainly wasn't left to sink or swim. Rather, she ignored the swimming lessons she had been offered.
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  #1352  
Old 03-16-2015, 02:57 AM
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That's Diana's version of events.

The other version is that the Royal Family tried to help her - Susan Hussey and Prince Charles Private Secretary tried to give her training in what was required but she would not listen.

I am not suggesting Diana had the benefit of the long apprenticeship that Sophie, Camilla and Kate did. But on one version of events, she certainly wasn't left to sink or swim. Rather, she ignored the swimming lessons she had been offered.
Even Princess Michael of Kent admitted that Diana didn't have the full support that she needed. Lady Susan Hussey taught Diana the art of royal waving and art of small talk in receiving lines, but what Diana needed was a young guiding hand and a good support team. It was also her husbands job to fully support her too. You can't just throw a young and inexperienced woman into the lions den, and expect her to be the next best thing since sliced bread. She truly struggled in her first years of marriage, only to find her feet by the 90's. Little did she and everyone know, time was running out. She did her best though. She supported Charles, secured the throne with William and Harry and was loving mother. She supported many charities, flew the flag for Queen and Country and touched countless people. Her time here was short, but she did what she had to do.
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  #1353  
Old 03-16-2015, 09:29 AM
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It was in her last conversation with Richard Kay (Aug 30 night) that she told him she was going to quit all her formal duty to her charities and to be a PRIVATE person. Richard Kay wrote down the conversation in his tribute to her on Aug 31st, "The Diana I knew".

Quote:
"Six hours before the Princess of Wales and the man she loved were killed in a paparazzi car chase, she telephoned me from Paris. She told me she had decided to radically change her life. She was going to complete her obligations to her charities and to the anti-personnel landmines cause and then, around November, would completely withdraw from her formal public life. She was dreaming of being a PRIVATE person.

"In my view, as someone close to the Princess for almost five years, Dodi Al Fayed was a significant factor in that decision. She was in love with him and, perhaps more important, she believed that he was in love with her and that he believed in her. I cannot say for certain that they would have married but in my view it was likely.

None of this would mean, she explained, an end to the good works that she had become so closely identified with. Dodi Al Fayed's father, Mohamed Al Fayed, had agreed to finance a charity for the victims of mines and, with Dodi's encouragement she also had sketched out the framework of a plan to open hospices for the dying all over the world"
Memories Of Diana - The Diana I Knew - By Richard Kay* - Princess Diana Remembered

The decision came very suddenly on Aug 29 or Aug 30, but this is not the only one she made around the time. Another one was she would live almost entirely abroad . On Aug 29, Diana had a 40 minutes telephone call with Paul Burrell. Though he refused to disclose the content of the phonecall in the hearing, in a letter to the Coroner of the Inquest to Diana and Dodi's death, Paul Burrell disclosed that

Quote:
"The Princess made it clear to me that she was disheartened by the media to such an extent that she intended to live almost entirely abroad whilst retaining her London home at Kensington Palace. This worried me a great deal and I've always regarded the Princess to be patriotic as she was. This secret might damage her reputation"
Also, in the phone call to Franz Klein on Aug 29, Dodi said "My friend doesn't want to stay in England. We want to move into the villa, Frank, because we are getting married in October or November." And then on Aug 30, once arrived in Paris, the couple went for a tour of the Villa Windsor immediately for 40 minutes, which they had already visited before on July 26th. This decision was very sudden also, because the trip to Paris was not planned. It was a last-minute decision made on Aug 29th.

I think the trigger of these decisions was the attack from the politician due to the Le Monde interview published on Aug 27th. The remarks "its (Labor) position on the subject (landmine) was always clear. It's going to do tremendous work. Its predecessor (Tory) was so hopeless" angered some Conservative MPs. But in an official statement Diana strongly denied she'd ever said Tory was hopeless. However it still brought furious accusations on her.

Quote:
"It was serious dangerous to drag the Royal Family into Party politics. I don't think we ought to allow one young to coming up to middle-aged woman to alter the British constitution. If you're going to have the trappings of royalty then you have to behave like one. If the Princess was unwilling to behave in a way commensurate her role, she should GO AWAY and be a PRIVATE citizen" -- David Wiltshire, Tory MP
Quote:
"Diana must keep out of politics -- and that if she would not, she should be 'disciplined' by the Royal Household. She ought to be reprimanded and told that, as a royal, she is not to enter the political arena. I wished she'd keep quiet and not seek so much publicity. She could have been a Hollywood star for the way she attracts publicity. Whether she does it unconsciously or with a view of getting the headlines, I don't know, but she cannot side with one particular government anymore than the Prince of Wales can."-- Sir James Hill, Tory MP
It seems Diana's decisions were a direct response to these politicians request -- go away and be private. Moreover, the demand of her to "keep quite" and "not seek publicity" indicated they knew what was her real intention behind all those acts.

All of these are sudden decisions, however she chose to disclose to Richard Kay, that means she wanted the public to know about them. The Olso conference was coming soon, and she had already gathered so much attention by then, it was time to use them now. And Richard Kay was her speaker to the public, she would use him a lot. Actually, she had invited Richard Kay for lunch on Aug 31st. From the conversation with Richard Kay, it seems she wanted the politicians know that she would subject to their request, but she had to complete her obligation to landmine first.

Another new information is Mr Al Fayed Senior had "agreed to" finance a charity for mine victims. In Bosnia, Ken Rutherford (her campaign partner) said the purpose of her trip was to show that she wanted true actions to help the victims.

Quote:
"Right now I think it is a forgotten issue that people get hurt by landmines is forgotten. There are many speeches, but there isn't reaction. And she is showing she wants actions for the victims. They are smart, intelligent, if you give them a leg, they have a life." -- Ken Rutherford's interview to ITN
By setting up a charity for mine victims herself, she set up an example to the world what was true action. Actions would give true power to her words if she wanted to persuade the policy makers to follow her step to show true actions to help the victims. It would be viewed as a hypocrite to persuade other to show true actions, while she herself didn't have any action at all.
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  #1354  
Old 03-16-2015, 12:09 PM
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Thank you, Anbrida. It is interesting to read what Kay summary of Diana's last call to him and his assumptions. However, I note that nothing in Kay's article indicates that Diana was planning to put any of her own money into the charities--which is the best way to set an example. We also know that she didn't leave any money to charity in her will. Even if she had done so, it is one thing to donate money to charity when you spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on clothes and expensive vacations.
Diana's interest in landmines and AIDS victims was commendable, but the real heroes are people who actually devote their lives to helping others, especially if they do so while living and working in primitive conditions.
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Old 03-16-2015, 01:24 PM
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Right. According to Richard Kay, it was Dodi's father who was going to fund the landmine charity. We know that Diana helped to raise a lot of money to charity, but we have no way of knowing how much she gave personally. Diana did wonderful work in fundraising and had a genuine desire to help people. However, I agree with you US Royal Watcher that many people work a long, hard, slog being generous and kind to people every single day. Many people live with the mentally ill, alcoholics, drug addicts, the injured, the physically ill, and aging parents who need constant care. As much as I look back with fondness at the example that Diana set in her charity work, I realize that she didn't live with these problems. She cared and she made visits and drew attention to important things that other people were doing, but she didn't have the burdens that those other people carried every day. In the last couple of years of her life, she made a few high-profile appearances; but I'm afraid that much of her time was spent on herself. Her children were away at school, and she didn't really have great family responsibilities otherwise.
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Old 03-16-2015, 01:49 PM
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I agree, there are a great deal of people who work very hard on issues and there are people who suffer from many problems that Diana didn't have.

In the last years of Diana's life, she was busy working hard with the British and American Red Cross, Landmines, Cancer Research and was about to embark on a Aids Campaign with the Presidents of the U.S and Africa. Yes, she took some time out for herself, but her work with charities and other organizations was increasing. Also in 97, she and Prince Charles was due to travel up the British Isles on the Royal Yacht Britannia, before it's decommissioning.
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  #1357  
Old 03-16-2015, 03:03 PM
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. Also in 97, she and Prince Charles was due to travel up the British Isles on the Royal Yacht Britannia, before it's decommissioning.
Wow really ? I didn't know that. Seems rather ... extraordinary, and a bit weird : The Wales back together for a farewell cruise ?
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Old 03-16-2015, 03:43 PM
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Which president in Africa? Mandela?

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In the last years of Diana's life, she was busy working hard with the British and American Red Cross, Landmines, Cancer Research and was about to embark on a Aids Campaign with the Presidents of the U.S and Africa. Yes, she took some time out for herself, but her work with charities and other organizations was increasing. Also in 97, she and Prince Charles was due to travel up the British Isles on the Royal Yacht Britannia, before it's decommissioning.
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Old 03-16-2015, 03:43 PM
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Wow really ? I didn't know that. Seems rather ... extraordinary, and a bit weird : The Wales back together for a farewell cruise ?
Yup, one have to remember that Charles and Diana's relationship improved a lot before her passing. He asked her to accompany him on the farewell trip and she accepted. I think she would have been there at the decommissioning ceremony that December.
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Old 03-16-2015, 03:45 PM
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Wow really ? I didn't know that. Seems rather ... extraordinary, and a bit weird : The Wales back together for a farewell cruise ?
This is something I've heard several times before and to me, it showed that Charles and Diana had reached a point of having an amicable relationship with one another and that they'd both moved on.
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