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  #421  
Old 08-06-2010, 05:26 AM
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i think we should let lady diana rest in peace.....why not give kate a chance to create her own niche? peace to everyone...i love diana and i'm getting to know kate and she seems a nice lady and good to William...she will be popular in her own right...how popular only time can tell....
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  #422  
Old 08-06-2010, 05:42 AM
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This is a great post.

Regardless of what people thought of Diana, Kate is a different person and will do her own thing if she marries William. Simply being in that position will earn her a lot of love from people and others, who have already made up their minds will continue to dislike (and I have no problem with that as someone who loathed Diana from the get go) but she is her own person and deserves to be judged on her actions and not compared to a dead person.
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  #423  
Old 08-06-2010, 10:09 AM
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I agree Kate needs to be given a chance. Diana was an exceptonal woman but Kate can be so as well in time. I find it interesting that people have already set themselves to dislike her. Oh well.
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  #424  
Old 08-06-2010, 10:35 AM
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Once in a while there is a person that captures other peoples imagination and projection. The popularity and power the person seem to posess are usually not in close comparison to the talants and personality traits they have. Princess Diana was one of those people that captured millions of peoples hearts. It simply is not possible to thoroughly explain this phenomena. There is also a certain mystique about these persons that adds to the picture. Kate is her own woman and to compare her to Diana is impossible. Diana was very young, un-known and a breath of fresh air at a time when royal families, especially the Brittish, were quite oldfashioned and drab. Much has changed in all royal families and Kate's constant coverage in the press leaves no mystique left.
Other people that have captured peoples imagination in this way are Elvis and Queen Astrid of Belgium. And they all died a premature death which just add to it.

I am sure Kate will be a great spouse to William and a great addition to the royal family but to expect her to follow Diana in capturing the attention of millions will simply not happen. There may be another "Diana" at some time in the future but it will not be someone we know from the press today.
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  #425  
Old 08-07-2010, 08:46 PM
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I agree with these recent posts.

Diana was a phenomenon and before her so was Edward, Prince of Wales, pre Mrs Simpson. In many ways, Edward's celebrity was much more remarkable given the relative difficulties of international communication in his young day.

I can see no reason why Kate Middleton should even wish to become another Diana; she is who she is, and obviously who and what she is is what William values and loves.

I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for him to hear his long-term girlfriend constantly compared to his mother.
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  #426  
Old 08-07-2010, 08:55 PM
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Diana had charisma in spades; Kate is another person altogether; Certainly she is charming and congenial but I do not think that even the comparison is fair. A lot are assuming a wedding is imminent. I would wait until the announcement of the betrothal
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  #427  
Old 08-07-2010, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonjapearl View Post
So, you think she's exploiting her relationship with William?
Yes as is her family.
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  #428  
Old 08-07-2010, 10:58 PM
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Yes as is her family.

In what way?

Her family were self-made millionaires before she started dating William.

How has she 'exploited' her relationship with William?
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  #429  
Old 08-07-2010, 11:47 PM
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^ How have the Middleton's exploited Kate's relationship with William? I would like some tangible, concrete examples with RELIABLE sources cited as to how the Middleton's ate exploiting Kate's relationship with William.

If putting her picture on the company website is considered exploiting, it's not. There are plenty of family owned businesses out there that put up their pictures on their websites to let their target market see who they are some even go as far as putting Christmas & vacation photos on their websites.

Like IluvBertie said her parents are self made millionaires who have been able to put her and her siblings through school and give them a good comfortable life.
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  #430  
Old 08-08-2010, 02:32 AM
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To start off, I, at least, have no access to the Middleton´s bank account so I have no idea if they are millionaires or just well off.
I wonder how many people in the small county where they live had ever heard of them before Kate met William? Their company too, do you think that the mention of it as being the source of their prosperity to the point of having a daughter dateing the heir to the heir to the throne hasn´t made people curious? Have any of you looked at it? Have any of you bought products from them and was that before she met William or after?
Would Uncle Gary´s video have been such a great hit if his niece hadn´t been with William? I am not saying that the luckless Uncle made money out of it but he certainly had fame for a short time and will be remembered for ever by some people.
The question is how has she exploited her relationship with William? I don´t believe SHE has, she would never have frequented the circles she does now if she hadn´t met him, or her family met, any of the people she mixes with now, the whole family has gone up in the social circle from low middle class (in the British sense of the class) in that time, that is certainly a perk for ambitious people, and no one that isn´t ambitious, makes a lot of money from an internet business selling party tablecloths, napkins and decorations for sure.
You may not think of them as social climbers but climbed they have and I am sure that has not hurt their business in any way.
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  #431  
Old 08-08-2010, 05:28 AM
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The very school that Kate went to would have meant that she met people in that social sphere so to say that she is socialising with these people because of being William's girlfriend is false (she went to the same school that Eugenie went to I believe - Marlborough College - a school up their with schools like Eton for cache status of the former students). In other words there would have been many students with connections that could have taken her into this same social sphere amongst her schoolmates.

I have never looked at their website as I live too far away to purchase party products from them (we have great places here).

The fact that more people are aware of them now isn't evidence of 'exploitation' but a side-effect of the association. It wouldn't matter what her family did people would be more aware of it now, just as the Spencer family became more prominent after Diana married Charles. Their profile has increased but is that exploitation? I don't think so. Some people knew of the Spencer family but no where near as many as did after the engagement and this is the same thing as is happening with Kate's family. How many people went to Althorp before Diana married Charles compared to afterwards? The Spencer family were able to benefit from her marriage and I see no difference with the Middleton's.

Exploitation would be consciously using photos of Kate and William on their website to entice people to buy from them or something like that. It could be things other than using photos of course but it would be a deliberate use of the connection and I haven't seen anything like that. I have even heard of complaints that they are selling 'princess' themed party products for little girls as exploiting the connection but that is rubbish. Little girls like 'princess' themed parties and any party product company not selling them would be doing themselves out of business. It was the same thing when they sold World Cup themed stuff - they were accused of exploiting the association with William but as every other business was doing it where was the exploitation - unless they were advertising the connection in association with the products they were simply doing good business.

Have they done anything different to before William started seeing Kate and how have they linked Kate and William's association? Unless their is evidence that they have consciously made that connection then they are not exploiting the relationship. Sure they are probably benefitting from it but that isn't the same as exploitation.

The issue is what is 'exploitation' as opposed to 'benefitting by association'. The latter they have probably done with people who had never heard of them now looking at their site as a potential source of party products but is that exploitation? I would say that it is not exploitation but rather simply a benefit.

Even if the reason for Kate choosing St Andrews was to secure William as a future husband how could she be sure that he would fall in love with her? How could she be sure that she could keep that love? There were many reports of ambitious young ladies applying to St Andrews that year and the year later just for the chance to meet him and yet she was the one he chose? Why? There had to be an attraction and that has to have grown for them to be still together.

Social climbers - maybe. Or simply parents who want a better life for their kids than they had.
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  #432  
Old 08-08-2010, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Social climbers - maybe. Or simply parents who want a better life for their kids than they had.
Wonderful answer Iluvbertie, Carole and Michael just want a better life for all three of their children.
Kate hasn't exploited William in anyway, she could have survived perfectly well without him.
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  #433  
Old 08-08-2010, 03:00 PM
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Diana had charisma in spades; Kate is another person altogether;
Quite, but it's often forgotten that Diana's charisma arose from the fact she became ROYAL. She was not "charismatic" prior to the engagement/wedding. Similarly, Kate Middleton, if she marries William, will be bestowed with Royal mystique. Not to the extent gained and garnered by Diana, but substantial nonetheless.
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Originally Posted by Wisteria
You may not think of them [the Middletons] as social climbers but climbed they have...
This is an interesting attitude. Most families aspire for a better life for themselves and their children and some work hard and "make it". It's called social mobility, Americans call it "the American dream", in Australian parlance it's "aspirational". I doubt that in Britain it's frowned upon for families to better theimselves, but for some peculiar reason the Middletons are mocked for doing so. The subtext is obvious - "don't they know their place?" - with the implication that class consciousness remains very important to some.

Angela Kelly, a Liverpool crane-driver's daughter who began royal service as a housemaid and became the Queen's dresser, now bears the title of Her Majesty's "personal assistant." Not a drop of aristocratic blood but she is reportedly the Queen's confidant. Angela Kelly may not "know her place" but HM certainly does, and it's very close by.
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  #434  
Old 08-08-2010, 04:33 PM
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She is still "help" whether she is holding the Queen´s spitoon like Fanny Burney did or not.
I trust you are not suggesting that Angela marry Prince William!
The person closest to the Queen who was not family was Bobo, who has passed away now, she always slept in the Queen´s bedroom when she was a child and became her great friend, which I think you will agree is only natural.
There is nothing wrong at all about a family climbing up the social ladder but most of them find that there are some who are above them who have been there for hundreds of years and resent them, which I suppose is only natural too.
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  #435  
Old 08-08-2010, 04:49 PM
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Honestly, and please don't take offense...but one of the few countries that I have observed of people not taking kindly to people moving up a social class is England. And I say that as someone who loves all things England. From what I can see, the English tabloids (as does the American tabloids) love to have someone to kick around , and for some its the Middleton's.

From all the appearances it looks like the Middleton's have worked hard to provide their children with better than they have. Isn't that what all parents do....aspire to give their children a better life than they have. In this case better is a better education which puts them in a different social orbit. Don't we all socialize with people that we knew in school? Now if the Middletons are living off borrowed credit and haven't gotten any money, and people are stalking them for debts owed to them, than that would one thing. But I haven't heard anything like that. They make money, they pay their bills, etc.

And honestly, I think Uncle Gary's issues became famous because he was Kate's uncle. The press might have cared a little, and the police a lot but really the only reason a lot of us know about him is because he is Kate's uncle. Unfortunately, there are people like him in every country and their information is hardly splashed about the news.

I think iluvbertie pegged it right when he said benefit by association. Everyone associated with the royals gets a little more attention. Some because of their proximity to the throne, money and looks get a little more attention than most. We know about the Spencers because of their tangled history with the British monarchy and their dysfunction and because they are rich. We knew about Fergie's father because of his association with Charles, polo and his misdeeds. You don't know much about Tim or Sophie's family because they appear to be normal. Frankly, they appear boring and as we all know, boring doesn't sell magazines.
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  #436  
Old 08-08-2010, 04:51 PM
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You don't know much about Tim or Sophie's family because they appear to be normal. Frankly, they appear boring and as we all know, boring doesn't sell magazines.
And they never dated the heir to the throne. But I totally agree.
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  #437  
Old 08-08-2010, 04:59 PM
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And they never dated the heir to the throne. But I totally agree.
No they did not date heirs to the throne but I mentioned three things with associations: proximity, looks and wealth. Proximity to the throne..if Diana had the background of Sophie I am POSITIVE we would have had constant stories about her middle class background, and everyone in their mother who had a nursery class, gymnastics lesson, gave her first kiss woudl have been in the paper.

We live in a shallow world...sorry but it is....Pippa might not have beauty queen looks but she will sell more copies than Christopher Rhys Jones would. And frankly, if you are not good looking, than wealth over compensates your looks.

We also know a lot about the Davy's and more than we should about Autumn Kelly's family.
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  #438  
Old 08-08-2010, 05:04 PM
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I trust you are not suggesting that Angela marry Prince William!
It was an analogy.
Class consciousness may be important to some but it doesn't appear to be much of an issue with those at the apex of society.
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  #439  
Old 08-08-2010, 05:17 PM
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But that is the very point, the social classes in England are like that and they do look down on social climbers, whether this is bad or not or to be ignored hasn´t really much to do with anyone, but this is a girl who they see as aspiring, or her family aspiring to her becoming the Queen Consort and receiving their homage and all the perks that go with being a royal in England, and there are quite a few.
Actually I don´t think it is only in England where social climbers are looked down on, in fact I remember seeing Clive James in Dallas having a day´s tour with the multi billionaires there and it was mentioned to him more than once the class differences there, the old money and as quite different the oil money. Until I saw this I really thought this only happened in England but it is more widespread than I, at least, thought.
I believe that in Germany it is against the law to use Von when you have no right to it, so there are class differences everywhere, perhaps it will change one day but for now they exist and even Diana had problems adapting, she was used to going to the kitchen in her home and chatting to the help but was told it was not her place to do this in the Palace which I thought was dreadful..
By the way does anyone know what Kate Middleton´s father really did before his mail order firm? In Wiki they say flight manager (?) and other sites say airline pilot. All say that he was a pilot in the airforce. Actually we never hear much about her father, he has had to make a lot of money to move to their present house and put his children in such expensive schools and he is to be admired for that.
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  #440  
Old 08-08-2010, 05:33 PM
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Wisteria...I did say that England is one of the few countries. I never mentioned the other countries and yes, certain cities and states in the United States certainly have that issue as well.

You only have to look at the history of the Vanderbilt family and their quest to become a part of the Social Register in NY. The Kelly family was considered noveau riche to Philadelphia Main Line society, and I can go on about the DC newbies who don't fit into the Georgetown, 16th Street, Mclean (VA) crowds, etc.

And from what I remember IF the Middleton's pushed their daughter in the path of William and that is a big IF in my book, they wouldnt be the first in that regard would they. You only have to look at the histories of Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour and Queen Mary (the former Princess May of Teck).

I guess my point is Kate going to certain schools and meeting William doesn't make her family social climbers. If the Middletons (or Kate for that matter) all of sudden are traveling in social circles that they never did prior to Kate dating William well that would be different. But I don't think that is the case. And honestly, I would question on whether some of the dislike to the Middleton's is because of jealousy. I am not saying you are jealous...but sometimes when people are jealous of certain people or situations, they look for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in a person to justify their dislike.
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