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  #261  
Old 11-22-2011, 05:51 AM
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I've always questioned this myself when it comes to William. But I chalked it up to the British royals not having as strong a stanch on education as the others.

Diana, may she rest in peace was no genius book wise. Barely squeaking out of high school and being a preschool teacher? But she had the right bloodlines. Her lack of education wasn't an issue because they could prep her on talking points. All she needed was a Throughbred blood lines and a smile and nod disposition fitting of a "queen" and she was set. Thus, William may not having the textbook education but that doesn't matter because in blood, he has it in spades.

I've always likened his his educational path as a being like a socialite getting a degree in psychology or whatever other liberal arts was the easiest at the time then just fluctuating through adulthood when you know life is set. You have money, you have your position. You need a degree just to say you have it but you're set.

Sure he still has time but regardless of Charles being first he should have been doing more in the past 10 years. Most heirs get whatever BA, MA, LLM, etc between 18 and 30 then get married and put what they learned to good use now that they have their partner and future queen on their arm.

Kate didn't do anything stimulation education wise either. She had her parents business to fall back on if she ever needed a job and that money and she knew eventually if she didn't get a pressing job she could stay available and around for William to propose eventually and it worked out.
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  #262  
Old 11-22-2011, 06:31 AM
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Now if you are talking about character...well that is a different topic IMO. Henry VIII was suitable to be King because he was the eldest surviving son of the Henry VII (an anointed King...of course those who thought he was usurper might think differently). Did he have the character to be King ---- in some respects no...his dealing with the Catholic, Church, his children and wives but again that is another topic. But some would say he was a good King based on other things.
King Henry VIII was definitely not a good husband but as a ruler he was a very good ruler indeed. His reign was one of the most prosperous in British History.
William is a young man who has done nothing. Now, his supporters will talk about his military training etc etc .Many young men have taken this training but it doesn't make them suitable to be Kings, they were born to the wrong parents. The only thing he seems to have done is to marry the person he wanted to, but then so did Edward VIII.
I only hope it is a long long time before this young man ever steps near the throne.
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  #263  
Old 11-22-2011, 06:49 AM
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King Henry VIII was definitely not a good husband but as a ruler he was a very good ruler indeed. His reign was one of the most prosperous in British History.
William is a young man who has done nothing. Now, his supporters will talk about his military training etc etc .Many young men have taken this training but it doesn't make them suitable to be Kings, they were born to the wrong parents. The only thing he seems to have done is to marry the person he wanted to, but then so did Edward VIII.
I only hope it is a long long time before this young man ever steps near the throne.
Exactly. Not completely "nothing" but in light of his stature it's really like nothing for this point in his life. But then again, he doesn't have to think about it or take it seriously because he won't be king for a long long time. Considering the family history in longevity, William won't be king until he's at least in his mid 60s.

That's a crappy way of thinking about it though but it's the one I think he's following. "I still have time to do whatever and nothing. Don't have to get serious until at least 45"
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  #264  
Old 11-22-2011, 06:54 AM
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William is a young man who has done nothing. Now, his supporters will talk about his military training etc etc .Many young men have taken this training but it doesn't make them suitable to be Kings, they were born to the wrong parents. The only thing he seems to have done is to marry the person he wanted to, but then so did Edward VIII.
I only hope it is a long long time before this young man ever steps near the throne.
Expat, I think you are a bit unfair here. Following your argumentation, it seems William can only prove he is a good king on being the king for quite some time.

because: William has always finished what he began: school, university, military profession. In his time off work he supports others instead of living the fine life with his wife. This more than most young men can claim. Otherwise the football stadiums would be empty and the charities have enough helping hands...

Plus: being happy in a military profession means that you are able to obey commands and cope with that situation. Not bad for a future souverain who only represents his people but does not rule over them.
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  #265  
Old 11-22-2011, 08:45 AM
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Finishing what he has begun does not make him good king material. How does he support others, by turning up at events?
I really can't imagine him obeying commands, I can more easily see all his fellow officers making his life as easy as possible. You have at least made me a little less worried by pointing out that he is only going to represent his people and not rule over them. In fact come to think of it, appearing at events, waving his hand with Catherine very decorative on his arm is well within his capabilities. He looks good in uniform too, especially when he wears his cap.
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  #266  
Old 11-22-2011, 09:24 AM
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Frankly, I think its a bit earlier to predict if William will be a good or bad King. He has the potential to be both though I would say the power favors the good at this point. He hasn't shown too many examples of potential bad behavior.

People didn't think much of Edward VII and George VI before they ruled and they turned out okay. People had high hopes for Edward VIII and look how he turned out.

In regards to suitablity...William is the heir's heir...so that about sums it up.
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  #267  
Old 11-22-2011, 01:22 PM
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He is, like it or not. Edward VII is said to have been a good king but he reigned for so little time it is hard really to tell. George VI's biographer said that he was very interesting when he was a young naval cadet but he spent the rest of his life killing animals. As they are now reduced to being figure heads I suppose it is enough to appear in a nice uniform and smile and cut ribbons and we really can't expect more.
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  #268  
Old 11-22-2011, 01:31 PM
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He is, like it or not. Edward VII is said to have been a good king but he reigned for so little time it is hard really to tell. George VI's biographer said that he was very interesting when he was a young naval cadet but he spent the rest of his life killing animals. As they are now reduced to being figure heads I suppose it is enough to appear in a nice uniform and smile and cut ribbons and we really can't expect more.
Exactly! As figureheads who have no political power IMO the only suitability that matters is their direct placement/succession to the throne.

Now say that William had lived during a much earlier time (anything before Victoria), when the monarch had limited power or Charles I when the monarch had absolute power...than thats a totally different discussion IMO.
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  #269  
Old 11-23-2011, 11:47 PM
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The only thing that I think could make an heir an unsuitable monarch is if s/he were a traitor or desperately ill in mind or body. If the second were the case, I'd think that a regent would be appointed.

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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
People didn't think much of Edward VII and George VI before they ruled and they turned out okay. People had high hopes for Edward VIII and look how he turned out.

In regards to suitablity...William is the heir's heir...so that about sums it up.
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  #270  
Old 11-23-2011, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Exactly! As figureheads who have no political power IMO the only suitability that matters is their direct placement/succession to the throne.

Now say that William had lived during a much earlier time (anything before Victoria), when the monarch had limited power or Charles I when the monarch had absolute power...than thats a totally different discussion IMO.
You're right in that strictly speaking, they're just figurehead. However they do, in a way, represent their country and can provide useful behind-the-scene advice, especially to politicians. After all they're more removed from the politics stuff and can see the bigger picture and provide informal advice to their prime ministers based on that. That is what the Queen has done so well over her nearly 60 years of reign. I worry a bit about the PoW being able to continue that kind of insight that the Queen has done. However I think that the Duke of Cambridge has a good shot of being such a valuable adviser to his prime ministers when he ascend the Throne.
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  #271  
Old 11-24-2011, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by expat View Post
Finishing what he has begun does not make him good king material. How does he support others, by turning up at events?
I really can't imagine him obeying commands, I can more easily see all his fellow officers making his life as easy as possible. You have at least made me a little less worried by pointing out that he is only going to represent his people and not rule over them. In fact come to think of it, appearing at events, waving his hand with Catherine very decorative on his arm is well within his capabilities. He looks good in uniform too, especially when he wears his cap.
These kind of comments really bother me. Obviously, you have a disdain for the monarchy in general and absolutely no respect or knowledge of exactly how involved and passionate William is in those charities he supports and his work as a search and rescue pilot in the RAF. His fellow service men seem to think very highly of him and his commanding officers have stated repeatedly that he takes his job very seriously and doesn't expect special treatment. He and Harry are very involved with their mutual charities behind the scenes although you don't see that since they also have full time military careers and are not in the public eye every day.
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  #272  
Old 11-24-2011, 01:21 PM
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IMHO both the PoW and the DoC have been raised with their future position in mind. I am sure that much time has been devoted 'behind the scenes' in regards to readying them for their future roles as monarch.

I don't necessarily think that either one's 'public persona' indicates what type of monarch he will be as each one now must (or should) tailor his behavior & opinions so as not to upstage HM (as if one could!) nor to tread too heavily on too many toes. Are the PoW and DoC always successful, no, but I do believe that they are sincere in their wishes to support HM and to learn from her.

Education and a degree does not always indicate future stability or behavior. I'm sure we all know highly educated fools and very wise high school graduates.
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  #273  
Old 11-24-2011, 02:08 PM
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These kind of comments really bother me. Obviously, you have a disdain for the monarchy in general and absolutely no respect or knowledge of exactly how involved and passionate William is in those charities he supports and his work as a search and rescue pilot in the RAF. His fellow service men seem to think very highly of him and his commanding officers have stated repeatedly that he takes his job very seriously and doesn't expect special treatment. He and Harry are very involved with their mutual charities behind the scenes although you don't see that since they also have full time military careers and are not in the public eye every day.
Well as long as you believe what you read in the newspapers that is fine.
I don't. As to my disdain for royalty, you couldn't be more wrong, in fact laughably wrong, I would like to see the monarchy continue but at its best.
I just hope the Queen will reign for a long time yet, perhaps if she reigns long enough and Charles after her, it will give William more time to become a worthy successor.
How do you know how passionate William is and how involved he in his work as a search and rescue pilot?
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  #274  
Old 11-24-2011, 02:13 PM
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IMHO both the PoW and the DoC have been raised with their future position in mind. I am sure that much time has been devoted 'behind the scenes' in regards to readying them for their future roles as monarch.

I don't necessarily think that either one's 'public persona' indicates what type of monarch he will be as each one now must (or should) tailor his behavior & opinions so as not to upstage HM (as if one could!) nor to tread too heavily on too many toes. Are the PoW and DoC always successful, no, but I do believe that they are sincere in their wishes to support HM and to learn from her.

Education and a degree does not always indicate future stability or behavior. I'm sure we all know highly educated fools and very wise high school graduates.
I can't help but remember the story about how Diana sat one evening with her two boys watching a poll on TV about whether the monarchy should be abolished or not and it was said that with much laughter they voted for the abolishment 200 times. It was supposed to be a joke but one of those boys was destined to be King.
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  #275  
Old 11-24-2011, 03:41 PM
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How do you know how passionate William is and how involved he in his work as a search and rescue pilot?
How do you know that he isn't? I don't really see anyone committing to something for such a lengthy period of time if they have no passion for what they're doing.
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  #276  
Old 11-24-2011, 04:13 PM
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How do you know that he isn't? I don't really see anyone committing to something for such a lengthy period of time if they have no passion for what they're doing.
I agree. One does not specialize in search and rescue missions without a deep commitment to saving lives and caring about people. I believe also that it was this kind of dedication to his chosen field that led William to ask to be sent to Australia and New Zealand after the earthquakes and floods. He not only went in an official royal capacity, he also sought out and wanted to learn how SAR handled their operations there. I also believe that when he toured Canada, some of the operational ways of various search and rescue teams were a big interest to him.

Most of the missions that William flies from day to day in Wales do not make the papers. He really just wants to be "one of the guys" while he's on duty and treated the same. There have been missions that have made news including one where the patient did not make it. That had to have been an emotionally stressful time for him. From experience in my own area, I've not yet met a person that is involved in emergency services that doesn't have a deep commitment to serving and helping others even in life and death situations. It takes a lot of stamina, dedication and self sacrificing at times.

In this light, what better qualities to look for in a future monarch?
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  #277  
Old 11-24-2011, 04:25 PM
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From experience in my own area, I've not yet met a person that is involved in emergency services that doesn't have a deep commitment to serving and helping others even in life and death situations. It takes a lot of stamina, dedication and self sacrificing at times.

In this light, what better qualities to look for in a future monarch?
My own experience exactly. There are so many more ways to "serve" while leading a nice, comfortable life. SAR-services are for those really dedicated because they offer no glamour but disappointment when all was too little, too late on a close to daily basis. SAR is for the ultimate situation where people are really in need and help is more often than not, while rewarding in itself, a failure in one point or the other. But if you can accept that life is not perfect, but what you make it, you can find so much reward and inner strength on serving at an SAR-service that it's worth it. But easy or glamourous? I don't know where you live, but here SAR is deadly serious.
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  #278  
Old 11-24-2011, 04:29 PM
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No, I don't agree. A future King is expected to join the armed forces, in fact all of them, one at a tim. , Prince Edward refused but it didn't matter that much as he was not the direct heir.
Prince William to be sure, has not picked search and rescue as a vocation, he would have been advised as to which would be most suitable for the heir to the heir as it would be out of the question for him to see active duty where he would be in the line of fire. Air rescue is not exactly "a piece of cake" but he is well looked after you can be sure.
Whatever a royal member of the armed forces does he is hailed as a hero and receives every medal going. Sometimes it is not the royal's fault, he might have wanted to see some real action, but the Palace is very protective of their heirs.
He looks a nice young man, but so far I am not that impressed, but he is young and I suppose there is still time, and as mentioned above nowadays they are only figureheads nowadays and although they have the right to give advice, the Prime minister has the right to disregard it.
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Old 11-24-2011, 04:53 PM
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Didn't Prince Edward join the Royal Marines? IIRC he quit, as so many others who has tried to enter that very hard selection process.

As for William and his SAR work. Well, helicopters crash from time to time. Not least SAR helicopters, that are often out in very bad weather or hover near precarious places, like cliffs. If William goes down in the water, he can very easily end up dead, royal or not.
About shielding him from danger. There is a limit too how much can be done about that. And more importantly there is a limit to how much he will allow himself to be shielded. He simply cannot work with a crew if he occasionally has to say: "Sorry guys, gotta stay on the ground, this is too dangerous for me".
Another matter is the material. As far as I know the SAR helicopters are British versions of the Sea King, a trustworthy but old helicopter. Most likely it was in use before William was even born. He is not placing his behind in state of the art material.

If William has saved just one life, he is, in my eyes, worth all the money that has been used on his military education.

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No, I don't agree. A future King is expected to join the armed forces, in fact all of them, one at a tim. , Prince Edward refused but it didn't matter that much as he was not the direct heir.
Prince William to be sure, has not picked search and rescue as a vocation, he would have been advised as to which would be most suitable for the heir to the heir as it would be out of the question for him to see active duty where he would be in the line of fire. Air rescue is not exactly "a piece of cake" but he is well looked after you can be sure.
Whatever a royal member of the armed forces does he is hailed as a hero and receives every medal going. Sometimes it is not the royal's fault, he might have wanted to see some real action, but the Palace is very protective of their heirs.
He looks a nice young man, but so far I am not that impressed, but he is young and I suppose there is still time, and as mentioned above nowadays they are only figureheads nowadays and although they have the right to give advice, the Prime minister has the right to disregard it.
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  #280  
Old 11-24-2011, 05:07 PM
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No, I don't agree. A future King is expected to join the armed forces, in fact all of them, one at a tim. , Prince Edward refused but it didn't matter that much as he was not the direct heir.
Actually, he did not refuse, he joined and then left. Two different things. A armed forces life is not for everyone.

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Prince William to be sure, has not picked search and rescue as a vocation, he would have been advised as to which would be most suitable for the heir to the heir as it would be out of the question for him to see active duty where he would be in the line of fire.
Could you explain to me how you are sure that he himself has not picked search and rescue or are you just making an assumption?

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Air rescue is not exactly "a piece of cake" but he is well looked after you can be sure.
Ermmm, no I can't be sure actually. Unless you know something about William's training that I and the public do not, then I would assume that he is treated like every other serving officer.

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Whatever a royal member of the armed forces does he is hailed as a hero and receives every medal going. Sometimes it is not the royal's fault, he might have wanted to see some real action, but the Palace is very protective of their heirs.
I have never heard a royal named a hero for simply being in the armed forces, nor have I ever seen them receive a medal they did not deserve. Could you tell me when this has happened?

Btw; you haven't answered my earlier question: how do you know William isn't passionate about what he does? You said you disagree, but that didn't answer the question. :)
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