The Future of the Danish Monarchy

[Madame Royale]

"I don't care what they call you...I brought u in this world and I'll take you out"

Haha, ah yes! A parent's prerogative

At least to the age of Absolutism if not before

Yes I thought it would have to stretch back to the time of Absolutism or before, as you say, if there were in fact any women who found themselves in the said position.

So ultimately the title 'enkeprinsesse' could be created if the monarch chose to do so. Though as you say, there is no past precedence for it.

 

[Muhler]

Is the title Crown Princess still considered an unsuitable title for a Princess who is heiress presumptive, or has there been some law to give it two meanings instead of just the 1?
Also if it was me, I would still, in private at least, delegate to my father no matter if I was Head of State.
I can just imagine my parents saying "I don't care what they call you...I brought u in this world and I'll take you out" : \

There can be only one crown princess: The heir or the wife of the crown prince.
Everybody else are just princesses.

The title of crown princess implies that she is destined to become the next queen. Unless something unfortunate happens.

A king Frederik is the head of his family as well as the head of state. He may listen a lot to his father's advise, but it's Frederik who is in charge.

Should a chauffeur kick one of the dachshunds and Prince Henrik retalliates by planting a meatcleaver in the head of that chauffeur, it will be king Frederik who will ultimately decide what sanctions will be taken against PH.

So ultimately the title 'enkeprinsesse' could be created if the monarch chose to do so. Though as you say, there is no past precedence for it.

Yes, that is entirely up to the monarch.

But it's an empty title. It's how she is treated that matters. Mary will be treated with that respect that befits the mother of the next king.

 

[Madame Royale]

I agree wholeheartedly with you Muhler. It's all reflected in how an indavidual is treated. As the mother of an heir or monarch and three other Danish princess' and prince, Mary's position of seniority and importance within the family is unquestionably secured.

 

[FasterB]

Are you sure he won´t be CP in the moment his dad is king?
Jeg synes at have læst, at Frederik blev kronprins, da Kong Frederik den 9. døde... Nu har jeg skrevet til Hofmarskallatet og spurgt dem : )

Well, I´ve received an answer from the Court. And when King Frederik IX died, then the then Princess Margrethe became Queen Margrethe II and the then Prince Frederik became Crown Prince Frederik So he has been Crown Prince since the 14th January 1972.

 

[Muhler]

Thank you for a great initiative, FasterB

And I was proven wrong, not for the first and hopefully not for the last time.

 

[muriel]

In the event of the death of Frederick within the current reign, I think Mary will be referred to as Princess Mary, and not Crown Princess Mary.

 

[FasterB]

Thank you for a great initiative, FasterB

And I was proven wrong, not for the first and hopefully not for the last time.

You´re so welcome, Muhler

I think by the answer from the court can conclude (konkludere) that when QMII dies and CP Frederik becomes King Frederik X then Prince Christian will be Crown Prince Christian - no matter his age

 

[Muhler]

Inspired by a Q&A in Billed Bladet #49, 2012, let's have a look at what happens when QMII dies.

As you know Frederik will become king the second his mother dies and there is no coronation, there are however a few traditions.

Let's say QMII dies in the evening.

The colour of the Royal Lifeguard Regiment's guard detachment, will be moved form the mansion where the Regent Couple lives to the mansion where M&F now live.
The next forenoon there will be an extraordinary State Council after that the Prime Minister will proclaim from the balcony at either Christiansborg or Amalienborg (M&F's mansion to be exact) and announce to the four corners of the world that: Queen Margrethe II is dead. Long live His Majesty King Frederik X.
Then Frederik will give a short speech and at the same time announce his proverb.
The procalmation is merely ceremonial, Frederik will already have been king for hours.

The employees at the court are also dismissed, but most are rehired again to serve the new monarch. - Exceptions will be QMII's private secretary, her court chief and similar close associates. Frederik after all has his own staff.

In the weeks to follow all QMII's monograms will be replaced with Frederik's monogram on letter heads, sentry boxes, uniforms (including the epaulettes of the Royal Lifeguard), colours, stamps, government buildings and so on.
In embassies the traditional portraits of the Regent Couple will be replaced with portraits of M&F.

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

Does this mean there are "official portraits of King Frederik X and Queen Mary" just lying around in some warehouse?

 

[muriel]

Does this mean there are "official portraits of King Frederik X and Queen Mary" just lying around in some warehouse?

I suspect all that will happen is that when the time comes, Fred & Mary will pose for some photographs, which will be reproduced and used across the country.

 

[Jacknch]

Inspired by a Q&A in Billed Bladet #49, 2012, let's have a look at what happens when QMII dies.

As you know Frederik will become king the second his mother dies and there is no coronation, there are however a few traditions.

Let's say QMII dies in the evening.

The colour of the Royal Lifeguard Regiment's guard detachment, will be moved form the mansion where the Regent Couple lives to the mansion where M&F now live.
The next forenoon there will be an extraordinary State Council after that the Prime Minister will proclaim from the balcony at either Christiansborg or Amalienborg (M&F's mansion to be exact) and announce to the four corners of the world that: Queen Margrethe II is dead. Long live His Majesty King Frederik X.
Then Frederik will give a short speech and at the same time announce his proverb.
The procalmation is merely ceremonial, Frederik will already have been king for hours.

The employees at the court are also dismissed, but must are rehired again to serve the new monarch. - Exceptions will be QMII's private secretary, her court chief and similar close associates. Frederik after all has his own staff.

In the weeks to follow all QMII's monograms will be replaced with Frederik's monogram on letter heads, sentry boxes, uniforms (including the epaulettes of the Royal Lifeguard), colors, stamps, government buildings and so on.
In embassies the traditional portraits of the Regent Couple will be replaced with portraits of M&F.

Many thanks for providing this information. I do hope that many years will pass before we see the reality of these interesting and unique traditions, as I do love Queen Margrethe very much.

 

[Muhler]

Does this mean there are "official portraits of King Frederik X and Queen Mary" just lying around in some warehouse?

Almost.
Every couple of years new photos are made of the DRF in full gala.
These pictures are normally for the press and also for the embassies in various countries.
There are of course also such photos of M&F hanging in the embassies. It will be no problem to put such a photo of M&F on the place of honor, replacing the photo of the current Regent Couple.
And after a while new official photos, including the traditional one of the monarch (i.e. Frederik) in profile, will be made.

I suspect all that will happen is that when the time comes, Fred & Mary will pose for some photographs, which will be reproduced and used across the country.

Many thanks for providing this information. I do hope that many years will pass before we see the reality of these interesting and unique traditions, as I do love Queen Margrethe very much.

You are welcome.
And you are right, many if not most will lament the passing of QMII.
But according to polls, M&F don't have to fear the transition, the people is ready and willing for M&F to take over.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Inspired by a Q&A in Billed Bladet #49, 2012, let's have a look at what happens when QMII dies.

As you know Frederik will become king the second his mother dies and there is no coronation, there are however a few traditions.

Let's say QMII dies in the evening.

The colour of the Royal Lifeguard Regiment's guard detachment, will be moved form the mansion where the Regent Couple lives to the mansion where M&F now live.
The next forenoon there will be an extraordinary State Council after that the Prime Minister will proclaim from the balcony at either Christiansborg or Amalienborg (M&F's mansion to be exact) and announce to the four corners of the world that: Queen Margrethe II is dead. Long live His Majesty King Frederik X.
Then Frederik will give a short speech and at the same time announce his proverb.
The procalmation is merely ceremonial, Frederik will already have been king for hours.

The employees at the court are also dismissed, but must are rehired again to serve the new monarch. - Exceptions will be QMII's private secretary, her court chief and similar close associates. Frederik after all has his own staff.

In the weeks to follow all QMII's monograms will be replaced with Frederik's monogram on letter heads, sentry boxes, uniforms (including the epaulettes of the Royal Lifeguard), colors, stamps, government buildings and so on.
In embassies the traditional portraits of the Regent Couple will be replaced with portraits of M&F.

Thank you for that extra information I didn't know about employees at the court being dismissed and hadn't thought about the royal monograms!

 

[polyesco]

Almost.
Every couple of years new photos are made of the DRF in full gala.
These pictures are normally for the press and also for the embassies in various countries.
There are of course also such photos of M&F hanging in the embassies. It will be no problem to put such a photo of M&F on the place of honor, replacing the photo of the current Regent Couple.
And after a while new official photos, including the traditional one of the monarch (i.e. Frederik) in profile, will be made.





You are welcome.
And you are right, many if not most will lament the passing of QMII.
But according to polls, M&F don't have to fear the transition, the people is ready and willing for M&F to take over.

that is def. good to hear.
thank you for writing about the steps that take place

 

[FasterB]

The next forenoon there will be an extraordinary State Council after that the Prime Minister will proclaim from the balcony at either Christiansborg or Amalienborg (M&F's mansion to be exact) and announce to the four corners of the world that: Queen Margrethe II is dead. Long live His Majesty King Frederik X.
Then Frederik will give a short speech and at the same time announce his proverb.
The procalmation is merely ceremonial, Frederik will already have been king for hours.

I´m almost 99,9% sure that it will be from the balcony at Christiansborg, since it will be there that the State Council will take place

 

[Muhler]

I´m almost 99,9% sure that it will be from the balcony at Christiansborg, since it will be there that the State Council will take place

So am I, FasterB, but Jon Bloch Skipper wrote Christiansborg or Amalienborg and since he's the expert....

 

[FasterB]

So am I, FasterB, but Jon Bloch Skipper wrote Christiansborg or Amalienborg and since he's the expert....

Ok, then you´re not the one to bash, sorry

But Jon has been wrong before and I think that he´s making a "helgardering" (don´t know the english word" here).
Why should it be on proclaimed from Amalienborg? It is after at Christiansborg that the Prime Minister and the government has its place (til huse)

 

[nwinther]

These pictures are normally for the press and also for the embassies in various countries.

I wrote to the court earlier this year, where I could get portraits of the queen and prince consort, as I was interested in hanging them in my office (I'm a public servant).

This wasn't very easy - the courts press office wanted to know what I would be using them for, where they were to hang and what my position is. I didn't realize it was that difficult to get my hands on, as the pictures exist in a digital format many places online (although not in a quality suited for print).

This was the reply:

Kære Nikolaj Winther

Tak for Deres brev af den 11. april 2012 med forespørgsel om officielle portrætbilleder af Regentparret til ophængning på Deres kontor på Rådhuset i Varde. Vi kan hermed meddele, at Deres forespørgsel kan imødekommes. Billederne kan købes af fotograf Jacob Jørgensen, der har ophavsrettigheden. Han kan kontaktes for bestilling via:

JJ Film Aps
Wilders Plads 8G
1403 København K
Tlf.: 36303200

Med venlig hilsen

Astrid Agerholm Ruge

Translation:

Dear Nikolaj Winther

Thank you for your letter of 11. april 2012, requesting official portraits of the Regent couple for display at your office at Varde Municipality. We can hereby announce that your request can be accomodated. The portraits can be purchased at photographer Jacob Jørgensen, who retains the copyright. He can be contacted for order via:

JJ Film Aps
Wilders Plads 8G
1403 København K
Tlf.: 36303200

Sincerely
Astrid Agerholm Ruge

 

[Muhler]

Queen Beatrix abdication has of course also led to some debate here in DK as to whether QMII ought to abdicate. - Not because people in general think she has done bad, on the contrary! - But more because she deserves to retire and enjoy her retirement. In many ways the younger generation has already taken over anyway.

I saw a poll, which showed a small majority being in favour of M&F taking over, either now or within a few years.

There is no way QMII will abdicate. She has said so often enough and I think it would also be against her interpretation as a Monarch. She will remain on the throne until she dies.

However, what about Frederik and Mary? Would it be a good idea if they started a tradition like the one in the Netherlands?

Personally, I think so.
Let's be practical. Say Frederik become king when he is 50. Okay he is healthy and has access to the best possible medical care and as such he's likely to live until he is 90, perhaps older.
Okay that means that Christian will be around 55 when he becomes king. And his generation is likely to live for at least 100 years. So Christian's heir may be around 70 when he/she become a monarch and then it's starting to be a little bit grotesque.
Good grief! We'll have pensioners trying to put their special mark on their reign.
QMII was in her 30's when she became Queen, and that has very much helped her redefining what the monarchy is all about, because she became Queen when she was in her prime.

Say Frederik is 65 when he become a king. By then people will start to look at Christian and his life and probably family, rather than at how Frederik is doing.
Wouldn't it be healthier if monarchs retired around the normal retirement age?

Another part of me admittedly still clings to the tradition of once a monarch, you die a monarch.

 

[ricarda]

AFAIR Margrethe actually said she will not abdicate as long as she is physically and mentally able to do the job.

I think for the monarchies itself it would be healthier if the idea "monarch until death" would be given up. The Dutch and Luxembourg way seems more modern and realistic to me.
As I said in a Dutch thread I find the British situation really problematic, with an heir already in retirement age who - given his mother's good health and genes - might still not ascend the throne for another decade or more and will probably be older at his coronation than Beatrix is at her abdication. What will he be able to do or change then?

I also think that a monarch's reign should not be too long, because the result usually is stagnation. But it's the heir who has to face all the problems afterwards. In my country Franz Joseph was emperor for 68 years and that was definitely too long. But it was Karl who had to pay the bill (there was a lost world war of course).

And the poll I saw (DR) did not have a small majority for abdication but a vast (89%).

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

I personally like that QMII feel the way she does about abdication, it shows her strong sense of duty to her role as a monarch. Also, it isn't certain that Frederik will live as long as his mother and grandmother, something unexpected could come up. Take for instance King Frederik IX, QMII's father, he died unexpectedly from the flu. Say QMII abdicates in two years and a half when she's 75, at that time Frederik will be around 47 and little Christian will be around 9-10. Then say thirteen years go on, Frederik will be 60 and Christian will be about 23, however something unexpected and tragic happens and Frederik dies, then a 23 year old, unexperienced Christian will be King and that wont be nice for anyone, least of all for Christian. At that point, QMII would be around 88 and possibly still alive and fit to be a monarch, and her not abdicating could have spared Christian from a lot of trouble. Obviously this is all hypothetical and I'm sure Frederik will live for a very long time, but that's just one of the reasons why I think abdication is a bad thing; it could go well but it could also go very wrong.

On the other hand I definitely think that it is fair for an old lady (or man) who has reached the age of retirement with several years, to have some years for the family without having reigning a country as her/his main priority. I think it depends on the situation.

 

[royalistbert]

I don't like the idea of abdicating monarch losing there title. Once a Monarch always a Monarch.

 

[ricarda]

I don't like the idea of abdicating monarch losing there title. Once a Monarch always a Monarch.

Yes, that "Princess Beatrix" thing sounds odd to me too. I don't see why there couldn't be 2 Queens, especially since one is only a Queen Consort and the new monarch is a king. In Dk there was a Queen Ingrid and a Queen Margrethe for a long time.

 

[Stefan]

Yes, that "Princess Beatrix" thing sounds odd to me too. I don't see why there couldn't be 2 Queens, especially since one is only a Queen Consort and the new monarch is a king. In Dk there was a Queen Ingrid and a Queen Margrethe for a long time.

Even in the Netherlands. From 1849-1865 there where Queen Sophie and Queen Anna Pavlovna the widow of Willem II. And from 1890-1934 there where Queen Wilhelmina and Queen Mother Emma.

 

[Muhler]

I personally like that QMII feel the way she does about abdication, it shows her strong sense of duty to her role as a monarch. Also, it isn't certain that Frederik will live as long as his mother and grandmother, something unexpected could come up. Take for instance King Frederik IX, QMII's father, he died unexpectedly from the flu. Say QMII abdicates in two years and a half when she's 75, at that time Frederik will be around 47 and little Christian will be around 9-10. Then say thirteen years go on, Frederik will be 60 and Christian will be about 23, however something unexpected and tragic happens and Frederik dies, then a 23 year old, unexperienced Christian will be King and that wont be nice for anyone, least of all for Christian. At that point, QMII would be around 88 and possibly still alive and fit to be a monarch, and her not abdicating could have spared Christian from a lot of trouble. Obviously this is all hypothetical and I'm sure Frederik will live for a very long time, but that's just one of the reasons why I think abdication is a bad thing; it could go well but it could also go very wrong.

On the other hand I definitely think that it is fair for an old lady (or man) who has reached the age of retirement with several years, to have some years for the family without having reigning a country as her/his main priority. I think it depends on the situation.

True, but the risk of a premature death is something royals have had to face for centuries. And if royals beforehand could adapt to becoming a monarch at a very early age, then modern royals, who don't have to concern themselves with usurpers but instead have relatives willing to help and advisors, surely can too. - The main enemies nowadays are basically the royals themselves and the press.

If the heir is still a child, someone, presumably the previous monarch or the next in line will act as regent and also assist the young monarch as much as possible.

According to a statistic I once read, one if five will die before they grow old. I.e. reach retirement age. And as some people are more likely to die young than others (like drug addicts, base jumpers and people who have a dangerous occupation etc.), I'd say the odds of a child suddenly ending up on the throne are pretty slim.

 

[kathia_sophia]

^i dont think they are that slim of a child suddenly ending up on the throne.
Beatrix's abdication will increase the possibility of Catharina-Amalia take the throne young, of course if it were to happen something to WA.
just like in Sweden, King Carl Gustaf was King because when his grandfather died, his father was deceased long before, so imagine if his grandfather died before his father Prince Gustaf Adolf, and thus he would have been King but the disaster happened and he died (like he did), months old baby Carl Gustaf would've been King...

Queen Margrethe will be The Queen until she dies, maybe yes when Frederik ascends he will not be that young, but Christian will still be young when he becomes the Crown Prince. nowadays people have children late, in their mid-30s, so it would be normal that in 40-50 years from now, we will have many young Kings and Queens.
thats why Great Britain is suffering from it, QEII had Charles in her earlier 20s, if she had him in her mid-30s, Charles would be much younger now and less debate about his age and the throne would happen.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

Queen Margrethe should stay on the throne for as long as possible. I can't see Fred as king and Mary is too busy with four young children to prop him up for the time being.

JMHO, of course. I never thought Fred wanted to be king, and I don't think he's inspiring as a crown prince.

 

[ricarda]

No less inspiring than Willem-Alexander but much more appealing IMHO. And with more friendliness and tact.
WA comes across as an elephant in the china shop most of the time (real-life experience). But with his charming wife at his side and his mother as advisor in the background I think WA will make a passable king.

 

[DukeOfAster]

Wow!! One person choice does not have to be anothers. I feel it is monarch til death and i feel we should respect those who agree. I am sorry you will not see the current Crown Prince as King for a while but do not make a person go against her principles over petty desires.

 

[kathia_sophia]

Frederik is a nicely Crown Prince, though i cant imagine him now as a King, it misses something from him, cant exactly say what is it...maybe he needs to expand more his duties??? i dont know... but one thing im sure about, he along with his wife will have the most regal and majestic names when monarch and consort: King Frederik and Queen Mary, how nice!!!!!!!!

i dont know much about what work WA does regulary, but he is approachable and friendly, he will be a kind King that cares most about his people.

the most hardworking crown prince, in my opinion is Prince Felipe, in last 2 years, he's been working extremely hard and has had many duties from the King (when he was in hospital,recovery, etc...), i believe he has more experience in what is to be King, at least he felt a bit of it while taking the role of his father when JC was unable to (as i stated above).