The British Royal Family: Race & Racism

[wyevale]

Until and unless an individual or group is CHARGED with an offence it is pure speculation as to what that charge/offence may be...

I don't care for the 'judge AND jury' tone of so many here..

 

[Jacknch]

I think the following article sums up the current situation adequately enough:

Meghan Markle and Prince Harry receive 'racist' letter in package containing white powder | The Independent

At this stage, we do not know yet whether the package sent to Harry and Meghan is connected to other such packages sent elsewhere. It is possible that IF such packages are connected, letters accompanying them could be individually tailored with a remark or grievance specific to the individual receiving the package.

 

[soapstar]

That's a good point about the letters possibly being tailored to each individual.

Mental gymnastics is the right phrase b/c so many have a hard time acknowledging what the many articles have stated which is that it is a racist hate crime, on top of that the need to bring up other incidents which have not been labled a racist hate crime to compare to this racist crime is also weird, just b/c this is another anthrax hoax does not mean there is a connection between all the recent ones.

The fact of the matter is, is that it seems people will bend over backwards to avoid labelling something racist or having to do with racism (despite it factually being stated so) b/c the word or rather label of racist is apparently worst than the actual act of racism.

Just because other white powder hoax attacks have been brought up, doesn't mean people are trying to avoid calling this a racist attack. It is a racist attack. And it's also possible that this attack is tied to the other recent hoax attacks. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Unfortunately it's a very common thing. This is a few years old, but as of 2012 there were more than 800 white powder hoaxes a year just in the USA.

I didn't realize there were so many of these hoaxes. That is really disturbing.

 

[Winnie]

Osipi....I truly agree with you on your points. I also believe unless we evolve into a species that become 100% clones of each other in beliefs, looks and shape, there will certainly be differences. Instead of learning to enjoy learning of the differences it seems the norm now is to insist people only believe or say what others want them to. I grew up in center of huge city with every type of race, religion and culture. My own family is so mixed that on holidays the table looks like the United Nations round table. We all had a love and respect for each other. Might not agree with them all the time, but only razzing about sport teams was permitted. But then we moved to town in NJ which was a town away from the Newark riots and could hear the gun fire and see the fires. My first rude awaking of horror. I personally believe that people that feel superior and push their views and differences on others and insist we change is the main problem They become bullies instead of showing compassion and respect for others. They should show love by example instead of pushing their agenda. I also believe that there are many awful troubles in this world and feel that drugs and mental illness can come into play. Families don't want to admit their own might have a problem so look the other way. I don't even understand my own children and grandchild some of the times but I still love them and will SMH when they leave. They keep me young and hopefully acceptable to all different viewpoints. I will not accept certain abuse, rapes or pedophiles in any form which I hope is now being addressed publically. I know there are still racists in this world but I can honestly admit I personally don't know of one anymore. Or at least if they are they know better than to voice it to me. We are all different and it is great. I would be bored to death if we were all the same. The people that publically mock others for their race, beliefs or shape are the bullies of this world and I feel most of the problem in this society. JMHO

 

[burbankstorylady]

Some people mistake the idea of "equality" to mean "the same". It's a mistake. People today are told that what needs to happen is make everyone "equal" and dish out equal parts for everyone. It's like they want a cookie cutter society. I know that is not what people truly want. If we had that, we would hate it.
Differences are good and healthy.

One example of this that is often misunderstood is the idea of varying degrees of intelligence. Intelligence is not a one-shot thing. I'm better at English and history than I am at math. But another person is better, "smarter" even at math and maybe "dumber" than I am at other things. I'm using very simple words of course. I just mean that in some subjects I am very slow; in other subjects, I am a quick learner and very sharp. So isn't it ridiculous to say that we are all the same? It is clearly a mistaken notion. We are not the same, we do not all think the same, we feel things differently, and this is not a bad thing.

 

[MARG]

I have difficulty addressing the elephant in the room because, to be honest, I am, or should I say was, ignorant of the degree of racism we live with. I know people can make laws but in some cases, laws addressing societal and cultural issues can take generations to become the norm.

I thought my naivety was just me wandering through life in blissful ignorance but yesterday I was talking to my sister about the threat level for Harry and for Meghan it how was even worse. She turned to me and said, "Why?". She's biracial I said, "So? replied my sister. She isn't interested in royalty but had heard of the engagement and that she is biracial. But she was stunned that made any difference to anything because, to both of us, she is Meghan, the love of Harry's life and she appears as lovely on the inside as she does on the outside. Looks like he struck gold!

We have racism in good old NZ but people are working on it from the ground up, meaning among other things, our kids learn the Maori Language and Culture from Pre-School onward. It's not perfect but we do have hate laws. In the military one lives at close quarters and there were large numbers of Maori and Polynesians who joined up before and during my 20-year stint. My Pakeha self learnt a lot about Maori and Polynesian cultures and I am the richer for it.

But that can lead to complacency. As is often the case, people with brown skin are disproportionally represented in our prisons. We're working on it. But I still really didn't see any real problem with Meghan being biracial, still don't. But I may still say or do something that is innately insensitive at best or racist at worse. My only defence is ignorance and my knowledge it is unintentional.

 

[jacqui24]

Some people mistake the idea of "equality" to mean "the same". It's a mistake. People today are told that what needs to happen is make everyone "equal" and dish out equal parts for everyone. It's like they want a cookie cutter society. I know that is not what people truly want. If we had that, we would hate it.
Differences are good and healthy.

One example of this that is often misunderstood is the idea of varying degrees of intelligence. Intelligence is not a one-shot thing. I'm better at English and history than I am at math. But another person is better, "smarter" even at math and maybe "dumber" than I am at other things. I'm using very simple words of course. I just mean that in some subjects I am very slow; in other subjects, I am a quick learner and very sharp. So isn't it ridiculous to say that we are all the same? It is clearly a mistaken notion. We are not the same, we do not all think the same, we feel things differently, and this is not a bad thing.

I don’t think anyone here is saying we need to all be the same because frankly we are different, even those that fit into the same racial group or gender group. We are saying you shouldn’t be treated unfairly because of it. That’s the problem here. Meghan being threatened because of her racial background. A case of someone being flat out threatened because of race isn’t complicated like some other situations. We aren’t talking about affirmative action here and whether or not that’s right. It’s a situation where the police has determined there is enough evidence to classify it as a case involving racist hate crime and being investigated as such, yet people are coming up with all sorts of less likely situations just so it’s not racist. Guess what? If Scotland Yard is comfortable using that word in their statements, it’s good enough for me.

 

[Osipi]

I believe one reason that racism is more prevalent in the US or in the UK is because the US societies were founded and based on people coming and settling the area from diverse cultures. More and more people from diverse cultures are settling in the UK and Canada also. We're becoming a global society pretty much everywhere there is civilization.

Its also commonplace in the US to identify one as Irish American, Italian American, Native American, Asian American, Latin American and so on. Rather than unify us, it divides us in my eyes. Racist remarks and hate crimes differ from laws as the laws serve to legally prevent discrimination against anyone regardless of race, religion, sexual preference or gender. Laws are also being strictly put into effect to combat the actions of those that act out of hatred and racial bias. It doesn't stop the thoughts but punishes the actions that result from narrow minded thinking.

Racism and hate are mental constructs and are individualized. Its very commonplace for a person of color to be more sensitive to a racial slur or hate crime against someone because they're black or biracial because it hits home personally just as it would be commonplace for a person in serving as a police officer to have slurs and hate crimes against law enforcement officers hit home more deeply because it affects them personally because of what they are. No matter who racism or hatred is a target of, it is the product of a way of thinking that shows a mentality of not only non acceptance of people around them but also shows the inability of their own selves to understand the basic fact that we're all human and one species.

If I had a magic formula that could change all of this for the better, I would in an instant with maybe something as simple as a belief that "I am not a body that has a soul but rather a soul that happens to have a body". Once we could all look past the physical attributes as being not really that important in assessing a person, we'd have a much better world and embrace each other easier no matter what they look like. Its how I prefer to live and theres a whole lot more peace and serenity in my life.

Then again, I'm severely attracted to people with donuts. Go figure.

 

[ACO]

I agree 100% with jacqui24. It was labeled as such so I don't have reason to think otherwise especially when they didn't have to put it out there at all.

 

[Rudolph]

I think many Americans would be surprised at just how broad the definition of hate crime is in Britain and how liberally it’s applied.

There’s no 1st amendment.

We don’t know the wording of the letter and not to say it probably wasn’t racist or bigoted, but nasty speech that is protected in America is a hate crime in Britain.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Or wouldn't it be easier to accept the description that the police who have actually seen the message and are conducting the investigation have used, which is to call it a racist hate crime? It actually requires more mental gymnastics to call it something else at this stage. And the effort to do so (however well-intentioned) is mind boggling.

If the police have also called the Amber Rudd investigation a potential racist hate crime, then I will happily stand corrected.

I agree, Osipi I don't know why you are so determined to paint this as not having to do with racism and equating Charles' ears to Meghan bi-racial status and those who dislike that about her.
I am not someone who cries racism at the drop of a hat, actually I tend to be annoyed at people who do that; but if it's labeled as being racially motivated by those in the know then why try to excuse that? As others have said, why partake in mental gymnastics to paint this as somehow not being racially motivated?

 

[Osipi]

I agree, Osipi I don't know why you are so determined to paint this as not having to do with racism and equating Charles' ears to Meghan bi-racial status and those who dislike that about her.

Meghan being biracial and Charles having "Dumbo" ears are both physical attributes that are called to attention to demean and denigrate someone. They're both biases. Racial slurs are biases as much as any other biases that exist in this world. To an individual, the one that stands out the most is the one that affects them personally.

This latest investigation has been deemed a "racist hate crime investigation". What we don't know for sure if it was geared to Meghan being biracial. We'd have to know the content of the message to be absolutely sure. It seems to be very probable that it is but they could have just as easily sent a white powder package to Charles that included a cartoon of Dumbo. Both would have had the same intent. To install fear and to denigrate and demean the person the message was sent to.

We're also probably making more out of this than Meghan, herself, is. She doesn't allow any kind of racial slur to affect her. I admire her for this.

ETA: Another thing to keep in mind is that the package addressed to Harry and Meghan wasn't the sole incident. With keeping in mind what Rudolph has pointed out as far as nasty speech being a hate crime, its very probable that the letter that was sent to Amber Rudd is being investigated as a politically motivated hate crime.

 

[Zaira]

No, no and no. Charles having big ears is nothing like discrimination based on ones race. Racism has a system to enforce the oppression and hierarchy it creates. People were enslaved because they were African/black, not because they had big ears. Segregation was because you were black (or in some cases Jewish, Chinese, Mexican) NOT because you had brown eyes, big ears or small hands. These were legal, social and political systems designed to profit off of and destroy black and brown lives. These systems live today in our criminal justice system, our schools, our housing policies, etc.

Alien laws in the UK, 'Rivers of Blood", the Football" test and the state violence present in many black and brown communities in the UK is because of the skin color and ethnic background of these groups, not because of something as rote as big ears.

Bullying is NOT the same as racism. Charles was bullied about his ears, but there was not a system in place to keep him and people like him in states of poverty, violence and death BECAUSE of that physical attribute or linage. Racism requires systemic power to enact a hierarchy that is sustained through legal and social structures generally premised in mental trauma and physical violence. In what world would Charles have fear from being sent a cartoon of Dumbo? Being bullied is awful and sucks. I have been through that too. That is in no way analogous to being sent racist content, come on.


And since when has Meghan ever said she wasn't impacted by racist slurs? She has spoken numerous times about how much the racism she and her mother endured got to her and caused her pain. Even last year (well 2016 now) she discussed this. Please stop with this line about it rolling off her. These things get to everyone who experiences it, but frankly I am not convinced Meghan can talk publicly about it anymore without being accused of using the "race card." Obama faced the same issue, he couldn't discuss the racism he endured because people went after him for it.

I want to say that I do not think the majority of posters in this thread, the ones I have disagreed with, have malice toward POC, but there is this fear of calling a spade a spade and seeing how racism and socialized racist thoughts have lingering impact on even the best intentioned of people.

 

[peanutbutterfly]

No, no and no. Charles having big ears is nothing like discrimination based on ones race. Racism has a system to enforce the oppression and hierarchy it creates. People were enslaved because they were African/black, not because they had big ears. Segregation was because you were black (or in some cases Jewish, Chinese, Mexican) NOT because you had brown eyes, big ears or small hands. These were legal, social and political systems designed to profit off of and destroy black and brown lives. These systems lived today in our criminal justice system, our schools, our housing policies, etc.

Alien laws in the UK, 'Rivers of Blood", the Football" test and the state violence present in many black and brown communities in the UK is because of they skin color and ethnic background of these groups, not because of something as rote as big ears.

Bullying is NOT the same as racism. Charles was bullied about his ears, but there was not a system in place to keep him and people like him in states of poverty, violence and death BECAUSE of that physical attribute or linage. In what world would Charles have fear from being sent a cartoon of Dumbo???? That is in no way analogous to being sent racist content, come on.


And since when has Meghan ever said she wasn't impacted by racist slurs? She has spoken numerous times about how much the racism she and her mother endured got to her and caused her pain. Even last year (well 2016 now) she discussed this. Please stop with this line about it rolling off her. These things get to everyone who experiences it, but frankly I am not convinced Meghan can talk publicly about it anymore without being accused of using the "race card." Obama faced the same issue, he couldn't discuss the racism he endured because people went after him for it.

You replied far more eloquently than I could have. Frankly it’s disturbing that anyone could believe that racism and bullying are equivalent to each other.

 

[Osipi]

Basically, what anyone would cringe in fear from (and not only Charles) would be the presence of the white powder substance in the package. I'd be frantic myself if I received one and I think most of us would react the same.

Racism has a system to enforce the oppression and hierarchy it creates. People were enslaved because they were African/black, not because they had big ears. Segregation was because you were black (or in some cases Jewish, Chinese, Mexican) NOT because you had brown eyes, big ears or small hands. These were legal, social and political systems designed to profit off of and destroy black and brown lives. These systems live today in our criminal justice system, our schools, our housing policies, etc.

I think anyone that makes any kind of an statement today, in this day and age, with words that are of a racial tone are indeed bullying someone. Perhaps I differ from you in my understanding of words as, to me, what you've said which I've quoted are constructs of discrimination which there are laws to combat in 2018.

 

[Denville]

But being afraid of a package of powder is't the same as being bullied for having big ears.. or anything. People can be attacked for no reason at all and of course they are going to be afraid of being killed or injured. But It is very probably that this attack on Meghan is to do with her being biracial. It is POSSIBLE that she's being attacked just because some unstable person does not like her, quite apart from her background - but it is very liklely that this threat is because of her having a mixed racial heritage. And while bullying is vile, it is not the same as racism.

 

[PetticoatLane]

I get a feeling that some Americans are transferring the issues their nation has with race over to the UK, a country they know next to NOTHING about. We have racism here but this is a country that's very different to the US and so opinions and assumptions about one don't automatically and perfectly apply to the other.

This is a nation that has become so politically correct as to be almost beyond belief. For example, fans of one of the major football teams here were threatened with prosecution for singing a very complimentary chant about one of their own players, who happens to be black as well as 6ft+ and built like a tank, and his larger than average male member. This was considered a racist hate crime.

Anything with even the tiniest whiff of a racial element will be jumped on and lamented to absolute death in the UK.

 

[Muhler]

I think we should be careful not to confuse resentment towards Meghan with racism.
While I do believe some people will recent her for reasons of racism it is my firm conviction that race is at best a secondary reason for the vast majority.
Meghan will be resented for similar reasons as those who loathe Kate, Queen Letizia or whoever it is.

Also, if you hope for Meghan to be living champion in the fight against racism, I fear you will be disappointed. First and foremost it's a political issue and here the whole BRF have to tread carefully, especially in these years where Europe is getting more and more nationalist - and anti-immigration. It's a seriously hot potato!
Secondly because Meghan as a member of the BRF must be seen as representing all Britons, also ethnic white Britons. If team H&M don't tread carefully here as well, the result will be resentment.

You cannot force people to be unbiased in regards to race, they have to realize it themselves. The best way to do that IMO is if Meghan quietly do her job, so that people looking at her realize it's no big deal and that someone who is half black, didn't cause the BRF to fall and the Britain is still around.
Apart from that. Is Meghan racial composition even that big an issue among the ordinary Britons? To me it seems more her social and professional background that's the problem, judging from comments. And not least that she's American... Many Britons seem to have a love-hate relationship with USA.

And that leads me to hate-crime. Which in my opinion is a monumentally silly concept.
You cannot punish people into become less racist. On the contrary.
If I end up in verbal argument with a black person in Briton and call him an oaf there is a genuine risk that I might get fined for racism. Even if all I meant was that I think he as a person is an oaf. That will cause resentment where I think I've been unfairly treated.
If a thug kicks my teeth out on the street, he will get a sentence if caught. But if he kicks the teeth out of a black man he might get extra for committing a hate-crime. - That causes resentment.
With me, because I think it's unfair it's cheaper to kick my teeth out.
And certainly with the thug as well. Must thugs won't even for a second consider the risk of getting an extra severe sentence for beating up a black guy and if they do, they are more likely to jump on the guys head for good measure. The logic being: If I get extra time for beating this particular guy up, I'm gonna make sure it really hurts!
At present political correctness (also in regards to race) has reached hysterical levels in Britain. You cannot make people less biased if they feel they have to be careful with what they say and do around someone belonging to an ethnic or sexual minority.
The only way to remove prejudices is by positive experiences. So that what used to be an issue (in this case race) quietly becomes normal and harmless and thus accepetable.

 

[jacqui24]

I think many Americans would be surprised at just how broad the definition of hate crime is in Britain and how liberally it’s applied.

There’s no 1st amendment.

We don’t know the wording of the letter and not to say it probably wasn’t racist or bigoted, but nasty speech that is protected in America is a hate crime in Britain.

American or not, I don’t need to know how broad hate crime is in order to understand when the police say racist hate crime that it was racist.

I think anyone that makes any kind of an statement today, in this day and age, with words that are of a racial tone are indeed bullying someone. Perhaps I differ from you in my understanding of words as, to me, what you've said which I've quoted are constructs of discrimination which there are laws to combat in 2018.

Having laws might prevent flat out racist things, but not the dog whistling and certainly doesn’t eradicate implicit comments. In this case, the Scotland Yard thought it was compelling enough to investigate as a racist hate crime. Just like U.K. has gender equality laws, yet as we recently saw with BBC, there is a huge pay gap.

And I really don’t like it when people say it rolls off Meghan’s back like water off a duck’s for two reasons. One, we know it doesn’t. Meghan has talked about it in the past. It doesn’t mean she’s going to stop living her life because of it, but that’s different than people acting like it’s all good and not a problem. Two, why does how Meghan might feel effects how we talk about racism? Racism is an issue whether or not the target is upset by it. There is a sense that because Meghan might be ok with it, the rest of us just shouldn’t be upset by it or outraged when racist comment is made towards her. Racism is about so much more than one specific victim.

 

[ACO]

I think we should be careful not to confuse resentment towards Meghan with racism.
While I do believe some people will recent her for reasons of racism it is my firm conviction that race is at best a secondary reason for the fast majority.
Meghan will be resented for similar reasons as those who loathe Kate, Queen Letizia or whoever it is.

I agree that not everyone who dislikes Meghan is racist but people also don't need to downplay that a large portion of people do feel that way and show express it freely. All you have to do is search her name on social media and the evidence is overwhelming.

Also, if you hope for Meghan to be living champion in the fight against racism, I fear you will be disappointed. First and foremost it's a political issue and here the whole BRF have to tread carefully, especially in these years where Europe is getting more and more nationalist - and anti-immigration. It's a seriously hot potato!
Secondly because Meghan as a member of the BRF must be seen as representing all Britons, also ethnic white Britons. If team H&M don't tread carefully here as well, the result will be resentment.

I don't think anyone expects Meghan to be some poster child for race relations but the BRF would be wise to not completely ignore it especially when there are public attacks. Harry already set a precedent with that statement that it can and will be addressed if it goes too far. And it should. Whether she wants to or not, Meghan is a woman of color and many do see her as representation. That can't be ignored and honestly I see the BRF using that to their advantage especially in the Commonwealth. So if they can use the positive then the can and should address the negative in due course as well.

You cannot force people to be unbiased in regards to race, they have to realize it themselves. The best way to do that IMO is if Meghan quietly do her job, so that people looking at her realize it's no big deal and that someone who is half black, didn't cause the BRF to fall and the Britain is still around.
Apart from that. Is Meghan racial composition even that big an issue among the ordinary Britons? To me it seems more her social and professional background that's the problem, judging from comments. And not least that she's American... Many Britons seem to have a love-hate relationship with USA.

Why not? If people didn't call out oppression and take action some of these great nations would look very different right now. Expecting people to sit and be quiet when they see something hateful is unrealistic. Also the BRF are not blind or stupid. They know very much what Meghan's background will bring to the family. All of it. Ignoring what is going on around them is just as dangerous. There are ways to acknowledge it in terms of their work and it should be. You can only ignore the elephant in the room for so long.

And that leads me to hate-crime. Which in my opinion is a monumentally silly concept.
You cannot punish people into become less racist. On the contrary.
If I end up in verbal argument with a black person in Briton and call him an oaf there is a genuine risk that I might get fined for racism. Even if all I meant was that I think he as a person is an oaf. That will cause resentment where I think I've been unfairly treated.
If a thug kicks my teeth out on the street, he will get a sentence if caught. But if he kicks the teeth out of a black man he might get extra for committing a hate-crime. - That causes resentment.
With me, because I think it's unfair it's cheaper to kick my teeth out.
And certainly with the thug as well. Must thugs won't even for a second consider the risk of getting an extra severe sentence for beating up a black guy and if they do, they are more likely to jump on the guys head for good measure. The logic being: If I get extra time for beating this particular guy up, I'm gonna make sure it really hurts!
At present political correctness (also in regards to race) has reached hysterical levels in Britain. You cannot make people less biased if they feel they have to be careful with what they say and do around someone belonging to an ethnic or sexual minority.
The only way to remove prejudices is by positive experiences. So that what used to be an issue (in this case race) quietly becomes normal and harmless and thus accepetable.

I think you have grossly oversimplified hate crimes which is very dangerous, IMO. It just doesn't really work like that. Two people of a different race, religion or sexuality can get into a fight and be arrested and it won't be charged as a hate crime. Now if your motivation was of the the pure intent of attacking any simply because they are different than you then yes that is a hate crime. Intent matters. And they don't just willy nilly toss those labels out. That is why when they do it is taken seriously.

If you fear being labeled a racist (or homophobic, sexist, etc) due to your actions then that should be a reason to stop and reflect on why one would feel that way and evaluate. Because frankly, by your example, if a thug is attacking someone I don't care what they do to them once caught. A thug is a thug to me no matter the color.

Being passive about hatred is not the answer. Of course to "kill them with kindness" is a nice idea but it is not very realistic. I mean quite frankly I experience sexism and racism more than I care for in my line or work because I am the superior to a room full of men who don't understand how I am their boss. So that notion of me ignoring them with a smile is not happening. And really it seems that that idea comes from people who don't have to live with that stuff on a daily basis or want to pretend it is not happening because it makes things less uncomfortable. Easier said than done.

 

[Lady Reem]

The vast majority of attacks on Meghan ONLINE (SM, opinion & comment pieces etc etc.) are far much more than than just ordinary resentment, its racism related pure and simple. No one else who has married into royalty or about to either here or on the continent has had to face the same sheer force and level of hatred / abuse levied at Meghan constantly. Everything about her is taken apart no matter how ridiculous. It can at times be subtle in nature because some are very clever with words and how they phrase things but the underlying undertones are never mistaken. That is a sad reality.

 

[Zaira]

I get a feeling that some Americans are transferring the issues their nation has with race over to the UK, a country they know next to NOTHING about. We have racism here but this is a country that's very different to the US and so opinions and assumptions about one don't automatically and perfectly apply to the other.

This is a nation that has become so politically correct as to be almost beyond belief. For example, fans of one of the major football teams here were threatened with prosecution for singing a very complimentary chant about one of their own players, who happens to be black as well as 6ft+ and built like a tank, and his larger than average male member. This was considered a racist hate crime.

Anything with even the tiniest whiff of a racial element will be jumped on and lamented to absolute death in the UK.

Some of us have had the joy of living and working in both the US/UK and experiencing racism in both places. I split my time between the UK/US for a good portion of the year and went to school in the UK as well. So yes, thank you, I do rather know what I speak of.

The daylight some British posters like to believe exists between the prevalence of racism in the US versus the UK is not as long as they would like to pretend it is.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

No, no and no. Charles having big ears is nothing like discrimination based on ones race.

Exactly on point! I don't understand this need to excuse this as not being about racism. On top of that the letter Harry wrote last year seems to indicate more has been slung at them than we know.
I do believe that the vast majority of dislike for Meghan is just resentment Akin to what Kate faced: why her, she's not pretty enough, she's a gold digger etc. BUT this specific case was stated to be racially motivated

 

[Princess Larisa]

I feel the need to point out that royal mail is never sent to the recipient directly. It all goes to a sorting facility and then staff opens it and checks it out, and only then it might be shown to a royal if it’s deemed of interest. This is true of all public figures that are at high risk from attack.


Unfortunately, I have to say I was not the least bit surprised when I read about this incident. It reflects the world we live in. Meghan will be targeted by racists, but also by stalkers, kidnappers, terrorists, mentally unstable people, etc. All members of the royal family live with this every day, Meghan just has an additional group of potential attackers. This is why they have RPOs 24/7 and why the cost of royal security is astronomical.


As for combating racism, I really don’t know what would be a solution. You can’t force someone to think differently, you can only punish them if they act on it and break the law. But that still doesn’t solve the problem itself. I have to say, my view of humanity is becoming bleaker the older I get and the more I see how things in the world are developing.

 

[Winnie]

Muhler, You are so right. I never put words to what you are saying until I was talking to a friend that absolutely dislikes Meghan. She hated the show Suits and couldn't stand Meghan or her role. Believe me, this was not racist at all as Kendra is Black. She thinks it is all "show" on her part. To say I really was sucker-punched is putting it mildly. Plus her husband agreed although the husband was really worse in pulling apart Meghan, a person none of them knew personally. It was almost like a jealousy. I don't get it. And, like I said they were not racist as they are Black. They just don't like Meghan and don't wish her well. I always thought they were a lovely couple originally from the Virgin Islands.

 

[Muhler]

Thanks for your interesting reply, ACO. ?

I agree that not everyone who dislikes Meghan is racist but people also don't need to downplay that a large portion of people do feel that way and show express it freely. All you have to do is search her name on social media and the evidence is overwhelming.

Again, I have to confess that it remains my impression that race is not the main issue among Britons, who have misgivings about Meghan.
I think the reason is that Britons travel a lot and that the physical distance between the ordinary Briton and various ethnic minorities is relatively small.
You can however always find racist examples, if you look for them.

I don't think anyone expects Meghan to be some poster child for race relations but the BRF would be wise to not completely ignore it especially when there are public attacks. Harry already set a precedent with that statement that it can and will be addressed if it goes too far. And it should. Whether she wants to or not, Meghan is a woman of color and many do see her as representation. That can't be ignored and honestly I see the BRF using that to their advantage especially in the Commonwealth. So if they can use the positive then the can and should address the negative in due course as well.

I sincerely hope any abusive behavior towards Meghan that goes too far will be addressed. Racial or otherwise.
I'm sure Meghan will represent Britain and all the Britons well in connection with the Commonwealth. Something Harry has already done so very well.
I see Meghan's job as first foremost representing Britain and the BRF by being a living role model, also for minorities, including ethnic groups.

Why not? If people didn't call out oppression and take action some of these great nations would look very different right now. Expecting people to sit and be quiet when they see something hateful is unrealistic. Also the BRF are not blind or stupid. They know very much what Meghan's background will bring to the family. All of it. Ignoring what is going on around them is just as dangerous. There are ways to acknowledge it in terms of their work and it should be. You can only ignore the elephant in the room for so long.

I didn't say anything about ignoring racism. It's education and information that works.
I began to write a loooong text about the historical background of that. But let's keep it simple.
Slavery was abolished first for economic reasons. Later due to changed moral values brought about by a growing middle class, who found the notion of "slavery is wrong" and "all men should be free" easy and simple to relate to and therefore something to fight. - That the same people had few qualms about "benign rule" in the colonies or oppressing natives in the holy name of "progress" is the other side of the coin.
Few of them though would even dream of having their daughters marry a black man. Good heavens!
Later on, and that is very recent, the same middle class started to travel and learn about other cultures first hand.
At the same time mainly the working class in Britain began to see new neighbors moving in with a different ethnic background and experienced first hand that the differences between them, on a day to day basis, really wasn't that big. The same concerns about making ends meet and keeping the kids out of trouble.
Britain, as a trading nation with colonies, has after all always been much more cosmopolitan than is often thought.
- So long as the number of ethnic minorities was relatively limited. Ethnic minorities is not the same as race. Prior to that there were resentments towards say Irish and Russian Jewish minorities. As indeed there was in USA. There were anti-Irish riots prior to the Civil War.
The difference between USA and Britain, is where it in USA may be much more a physical racial issue, it is in Britain much more a question of immigration and culture.

I think you have grossly oversimplified hate crimes which is very dangerous, IMO. It just doesn't really work like that. Two people of a different race, religion or sexuality can get into a fight and be arrested and it won't be charged as a hate crime. Now if your motivation was of the the pure intent of attacking any simply because they are different than you then yes that is a hate crime. Intent matters. And they don't just willy nilly toss those labels out. That is why when they do it is taken seriously.

It is indeed to be taken very seriously. Especially in these years where more and more people are quietly dusting off the old brown and black shirts hidden away in the wardrobes.
It is to taken even more serious if the majority increasingly feel antagonized by, in a European context, ethnic, cultural and/or religious minorities, whom they feel are protected overly by hate-crime laws and laws about racism/discrimination.
To the point where they feel they can no longer vent their political frustrations and concerns, without being labelled a racist. And that's dangerous.
I'll claim that this is an entirely different issue than the historical, cultural and socioeconomic reasons behind racism in USA.
I'll maintain that in a European context Meghan's racial composition is not a major issue. Had she been a Muslim, even worse an openly devout Muslim, then it would be a major issue!
Example: A white Briton can easily have an Indian as his best friend, have no problems seeing his Chinese doctor and having a son marrying a Russian man, not to mention that his favorite footballer is from Ghana and he absolutely loves going on vacation to Turkey. While at the same time being furious about the British immigration policy.
Is such a man racist? In the strict definition of the word? Such a man is far from uncommon in Britain. He would no doubt vehemently deny being a racist and be genuinely offended if you suggested it.
My point is that racism isn't, pardon the pun, just black and white.

If you fear being labeled a racist (or homophobic, sexist, etc) due to your actions then that should be a reason to stop and reflect on why one would feel that way and evaluate. Because frankly, by your example, if a thug is attacking someone I don't care what they do to them once caught. A thug is a thug to me no matter the color.

Exactly! A crime is a crime is crime. It's when you distinguish between crimes on an everyday basis that it goes wrong.
There has to be room for the occasional outburst without knocking people of the head with the big hammer.
There has to be room for the occasional joke about minorities. Whether the joke is good or bad is besides the point.
There has to be room for a very frank exchange of opinions, including saying things about minorities.
There has to be room to do and say stupid things once in a while.
If not frustration will build up and frustrations always find an outlet.
Example: I have a heated argument with a Smurf. And in my anger I call him a blue goblin! Not because I have anything against creatures with blue skin, but because I'm angry. - The Smurf now files a report against me for racism. Is the right solution in this case to fine me for being racist?
Because that is a real possibility in Britain these years with the extreme, I'll even say suffocating, way political correctness is interpreted.

Being passive about hatred is not the answer. Of course to "kill them with kindness" is a nice idea but it is not very realistic. I mean quite frankly I experience sexism and racism more than I care for in my line or work because I am the superior to a room full of men who don't understand how I am their boss. So that notion of me ignoring them with a smile is not happening. And really it seems that that idea comes from people who don't have to live with that stuff on a daily basis or want to pretend it is not happening because it makes things less uncomfortable. Easier said than done.

I wouldn't dream about suggesting people turn the other cheek, let alone be passive. If people feel they are offended, abused or whatever, they should stand up and say so.
In the meantime, live by example.
However, having said that. You can't go through life without being offended.
I've been called a "Danish pig" or "a potato" (Demeaning slang about ethnic Danes) and of course it offended me, sometimes up to half an hour.
My point is that some degree of thick hide is necessary - also on behalf of Meghan.

She has enough problems adjusting to her new life, without some people being, shall we say, overly sensitive on her behalf.

(Thanks, whoever moderator, who fixed the quotes. ?)

 

[PetticoatLane]

Some of us have had the joy of living and working in both the US/UK and experiencing racism in both places. I split my time between the UK/US for a good portion of the year and went to school in the UK as well. So yes, thank you, I do rather know what I speak of.

The daylight some British posters like to believe exists between the prevalence of racism in the US versus the UK is not as long as they would like to pretend it is.

You choose to deliberately misread my comment. I stated we had racism in the UK, I didn't say it was more or less than in the US. My point was that the situations are very different and yet people seek to apply their own experiences or beliefs on race in the US to the UK. To begin with black people make up a much smaller percentage of the population in the UK (3% vs 12.5%).

I also didn't say that no American poster can have any insight on the UK.

What I do resent, is the Americans who post in this thread with a rather strong undercurrent of teaching us little backward British people just how racist we are. Or that Meghan is any more likely to face racial prejudice in this country than her home country, which is something no one can know.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I was actually surprised at learning there was racism in the UK and feel naive that I thought it was some British Utopia. I definitely don't intend to "educate" anyone on how racist their country is. I don't feel in general Meghan would face racism from the vast majority of royal watchers if she wasn't marrying a Prince. Just like Sophia and Kate there will be people who think "people like that" shouldn't marry into the royal family. Such notions would be present in the US also if hypothetically JFK Jr. married a black woman.

 

[Osipi]

First off, I'd like to apologize to anyone here that may have felt that my words were making light of an incident that has been called in the UK, an investigation into a racist hate crime. No attack against another person, regardless of reason is acceptable in any shape or form. These white powder packages were a method to intimidate, threaten, demean and denigrate someone with words specific to themselves and in Meghan's case, racially motivated. To me, this was a racially motivated form of using bullying tactics to commit the crime rather than an outright thwap across the face which is a physical form of a racially motivated attack. Both, in the UK, are racist hate crimes and no matter where it happens, is unacceptable behavior.

Meghan has learned how to handle things such as this and we will never hear her speak out about this incident and leave it to the authorities to pursue the matter. Its the way that she's learned how to personally react to these kind of situations that is to her credit. She's not following the example of, for example, Samantha Grant and flooding social media with intense indignation and screaming racism and with angry words. She knows that kind of reaction is just fueling the fires of hatred and brings even more attention to it. She just gets on with her life and knows she's got very good protection around her should there be any kind of a threat. She's a mature woman comfortable in her own skin, a strong woman that stands by her own convictions. I think its fitting that who Meghan is, fits in with Harry's Invictus Games focus on two words. "I AM".

Here, in these forums, there are many among us that don't like Meghan for various reasons. I happen to admire her. What I have noticed too here in this thread alone is that there are none among us that feel racism or discrimination is an OK thing. In having this conversation, we are reminding ourselves that its possible that our thoughts, our feelings and our actions do have effects on the world around us and if all of us face each and every day, no matter where we are or what we do, with acceptance and consideration, tolerance and compassion towards whomever we come in contact with, we make the world a bit better.

 

[ACO]

I appreciate this discussion. I think this thread is doing what it intended. A rational discussion where folks with different views respectfully explain their opinions. We don't have to agree but at least you can understand each point of view. So for that I thanks the mods for creating it because this topic will not go away and Meghan being a new member will make it more of a hot topic than ever.