The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #101  
Old 06-05-2011, 03:55 PM
Vasillisos Markos's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Crete, United States
Posts: 1,158
My dear Zonk,

Thank you for the references. I pulled my copy of King Edward VIII by Ziegler to see if somehow I had forgotten any incidents about QETQM meeting the DoW but there were only two specific incidents and few facts. One mention came about the dinner at Fort Belvedere where an aide, Aird, recalled in his diary that he was amused to see both women in the same room despite QETQM stating publicly that she would not meet Mrs. Simpson. Another incident recalled a gentleman who said he was dining with the Yorks at the Dorchester when the Prince and Wallis arrived in a separate party. After one dance, the Yorks decided to leave and the party broke up. Clearly, the Establishment did not want to have anything to do with Mrs. Simpson, probably a reflection on how King George V and Queen Mary felt about her and how they felt about the Prince's involvement with a married woman.

Do you, or anyone else, think the biographer of Queen Elizabeth avoided specific incidents because they were so unpleasant and distressful? Or could it be that these incidents, i.e., the Duchess of York snubbing Mrs. Simpson in front of others, although understandable from the Duchess's perspective and background, were not particularly flattering to her and the others involved?
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 06-05-2011, 04:29 PM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 10,159
I haven't read the Shawcross book, but Elspeth read it and she indicated that certain events weren't in the official book. So one can assume that that either the book didn't deal with certain events because 1) why write about unpleasant memories and 2) if one lives to be 100 you can't remember or write about every event. So I think its a little of both.

The only time that the Queen Mother indicated that she wouldn't receive Wallis was after the abdication, and the Windsor wedding. Prior to that, I believe the women had met on a couple of occassions. Let's not forget that Albert and David were close as children (not the same as they grew older as result of David becoming closer to George and Bertie getting married) but the Yorks had definitely met Wallis at the Fort, at the George/Marina pre wedding party, and at Royal Lodge. The Yorks, Edward, and Wallis didn't really socialize in the same exact social circle. They all socialized wtih the aristrocracy, but Wallis and David moreso with the cooler aspects (the Coopers, Lady Colefax and Cunard, etc.).

Elizabeth was also good friends with Lady Furness so it had nothing to with Wallis being an American married/divorced women, I just think it was they way things went down.
__________________

__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 06-05-2011, 05:25 PM
Vasillisos Markos's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Crete, United States
Posts: 1,158
Interesting observations. Of course, the QM wasn't around when Shawcross wrote the book, so maybe he did it out of discretion for her wishes or the wishes of the royal family or maybe he just did not think it was relevant or important. Shawcross does touch upon the incidents where the QM did not make overtures to the Duchess or the Duke years later, or when she did not meet with one or both of them, but the QM did mention that the Duchess had made the Duke happy.

I found it interesting that when the Queen and Prince Charles dined with the Duchess at Buckingham Palace before the Duke's funeral, the QM did not attend because she had a mild attack of the shingles. Shingles is brought on by stress and it appears that thirty-six years later, the abdication which made her a queen and all the incidents leading thereto still stirred up some feelings. Longford wrote that the funeral was an ordeal for Queen Elizabeth but a lady-in-waiting to Queen Elizabeth said that she had no problem meeting with the Duchess then.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 06-05-2011, 05:34 PM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 10,159
Not quite sure why Shawcross omitted some things. I mean there have been SO many books written about the Windsor that touched on the early days of the relationship, the abdication and their remaining years. Perhaps the author thought it had already been touched upon.

THe Queen Mother also sent the Duchess funeral after the death of the Duke, and signed it with In Friendship Elizabeth.

I think at that point so much had passed, both of their husbands were dead and it was like....why keep up the hostility. Although for Wallis, it was too little too late.

Its worth noting that after the Abdication when the Duke and Duchess came to England, they did not say with the royal family, they usually stayed with friends. If the Duke met the King, the Queen never saw him...according one book...she would be conveniently out of the Palace. I don't believe the King ever met Wallis after the Abdication. I know Queen Mary didn't. The Gloucesters would see them time to time.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 06-05-2011, 06:11 PM
Vasillisos Markos's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Crete, United States
Posts: 1,158
Funny how families. royal and non-royal, can be so alike when it comes to inter-family strife. I imagine the Gloucesters, being more removed and not immediately affected by the abdication, could socialize with the Windsors from time to time. The Duke of Kent was close to Edward and he tried to accommodate his brother's wishes but the Duchess of Kent, perhaps being more schooled in how a royal should act and behave, was said to view Wallis as an alarming and dangerous adventuress and was very reluctant to even be with her.

Perhaps the QM lamented the severing of close ties between the brothers and the break between her and the Duke of Windsor (they were very fond of each other at first) and thus found it very difficult to see him as well. Surprising because Wallis made Elizabeth a queen and from all accounts Elizabeth enjoyed being the queen but she was also known as being an "ostrich" who avoided unpleasantness whenever she could. Her avoidance of the Windsors may have been her way of coping.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 06-05-2011, 06:24 PM
Lenora's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 2,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aotearoagal View Post
Another documentary has just been screened on Australian television, with all the FBI information on Wallis and Edwards' activities during World War II. Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother despised Wallis because she was not just a Nazi sympathiser, but an active spy, through her affair with a German diplomat which continued during WWII. The only thing the UK could do with W&E was to send them to the Bahamas and keep a close eye on them. Wallis and Edward nearly cost the British and Americans the war - they leaked vital tactical information. Edward was actively conspiring to return to Britain as a Nazi puppet king. It's all on the record. Anyone who thinks the mother of the current reigning Queen of England would bother to despise Wallis Simpson over a bit of protocol is vastly underestimating her character.
(By the way, I trust that Madonna's movie W.E. which glorifies these anti-semitic Nazis will be a big fail.)
Let me disagree on this point.I understand that Wallis had many weak and even negative aspects of personality,but I do not trust at all the company aimed to denigrate her in the eyes of future generation.Of course she was neither an angel nor an ideal wife ,but it's shame to accuse her of being Nazi spy.She is dead and has no issue,so she could not be defended at a proper way.Let's not forget Edward's background before meeting the "evil" one-Wallis.He was never enough serious to carry his duties seriously and had affairs with married women,he never really wanted to settle down with a proper wife like his brothers did.It was a stupidity from their part and a great political mistake to accept Hitler's invitation,it was probably the silly self-pride reasons.Wallis had not been enough intelligent to be a spy,she had failed to create a proper family,maybe someone wanted to involve her with promising to make her the Queen one day,but she never was a professional and did not want to implly deeply in such a matter.So she wasn't the main person that caused king's abdication,she was not guilty of it,the way people used to treat her was expressed in many slogans,such as "Hands off from our king".I do not idealize her,but I did not like the way she is presented in some books,documentaries or even in "The King's Speech".I believe Madonna will idealize Wallis,but wasn't idealized Evita Peron and others?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 07-26-2011, 02:46 PM
Bundtrock's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Irving, United States
Posts: 46
I think HM King George VI and HRH The Duke of Windsor were both men who loved very deeply and very passionately, I think their respective pursuits of the women they fell in love with are very indicative of the depth of their feelings.

I also believe that life events worked out exactly the way they were suppose to. Without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, HM King George VI and HM Queen Elizabeth were precisely what was needed to hold the United Kingdom unified during World War II. HM Queen Elizabeth II has proven herself to be a spectacular Monarch, my respect for her is truly boundless.

I also believe that HRH The Duke of Windsor and the Duchess of Windsor were truly happy and content as a couple and thoroughly enjoyed their life together, I believe they truly and deeply loved and respected each another.

I have read previously that HM Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother blamed the Windsors for HM King George VI's early death. I think perhaps deep grief might have been the cause of any such feelings and expression thereof, IF that assertion was actually made. I believe HM King George VI was a heavy smoker throughout his life and that was most likely the cause of his mid life demise?
__________________
Camilla Bundtrock
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 07-26-2011, 02:53 PM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 10,159
I believe the Queen Mother felt that the additional responsibilities caused the King to smoke (although he was a smoker before just became a heavier smoker because of the stress). And the additional responsiblities were a result of Edward choosing love over duty.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 07-26-2011, 06:21 PM
Vasillisos Markos's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Crete, United States
Posts: 1,158
And she may have been jealous that her married life had been cut short whereas the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were married for many more years. No doubt the cares and worry of the office exaggerated the deleterious effect of his constant smoking and she probably resented that as well.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 08-01-2011, 01:37 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: ontario, Canada
Posts: 7
It seems the late Queen Mother was such a vindictive person who hated the Duchess of Windsor to the end (and scorned the fact that Mrs Simpson was twice divorced etc), that it is "ironic" and "fitting" that she was alive to witness the demise of the marriages of her daughter, Margaret, and her grandchildren, Charles, Andrew, and Anne.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 08-01-2011, 02:40 AM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 5,129
I don't believe that the Queen Mother "hated the D of W to the end," and to suggest that she therefore deserved to see her daughter and grand-children's marriages fail is simply unkind IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue sky View Post
It seems the late Queen Mother was such a vindictive person who hated the Duchess of Windsor to the end (and scorned the fact that Mrs Simpson was twice divorced etc), that it is "ironic" and "fitting" that she was alive to witness the demise of the marriages of her daughter, Margaret, and her grandchildren, Charles, Andrew, and Anne.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 08-01-2011, 01:44 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue sky View Post
It seems the late Queen Mother was such a vindictive person who hated the Duchess of Windsor to the end (and scorned the fact that Mrs Simpson was twice divorced etc), that it is "ironic" and "fitting" that she was alive to witness the demise of the marriages of her daughter, Margaret, and her grandchildren, Charles, Andrew, and Anne.
I don't believe there are any quotes attributed to her that would indicate lifelong animosity towards the Duchess.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 08-01-2011, 02:09 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,500
I always believed that QM hated the fact that her husband was more or less forced to become king.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 08-01-2011, 02:12 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue sky View Post
It seems the late Queen Mother was such a vindictive person who hated the Duchess of Windsor to the end (and scorned the fact that Mrs Simpson was twice divorced etc), that it is "ironic" and "fitting" that she was alive to witness the demise of the marriages of her daughter, Margaret, and her grandchildren, Charles, Andrew, and Anne.
That's a real cruel thing to say.
Wallis was everything that Elizabeth wasn't, everything that opposed the royal families beliefs and what they stood for. That woman basically forced King George into an early grave.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 08-01-2011, 03:12 PM
Bundtrock's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Irving, United States
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
That's a real cruel thing to say.
Wallis was everything that Elizabeth wasn't, everything that opposed the royal families beliefs and what they stood for. That woman basically forced King George into an early grave.
If I am reading your post correctly, you are alluding that serving as King / Monarch put King George VI into an early grave? Am I interpreting your post correctly?

Considering Queen Elizabeth II is in her mid eighties now, has served for 55+ years, I question that assertion.

If that was your intent, what does that say about the position of Monarch and the absolute expectation that one serve based on birth?
__________________
Camilla Bundtrock
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 08-01-2011, 03:17 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundtrock View Post
If I am reading your post correctly, you are alluding that serving as King / Monarch put King George VI into an early grave? Am I interpreting your post correctly?

Considering Queen Elizabeth II is in her mid eighties now, has served for 55+ years, I question that assertion.

If that was your intent, what does that say about the position of Monarch and the absolute expectation that one serve based on birth?
Yes I am saying that the pressure placed on King George after being forced to assume his brothers role, placed him in an early grave.
Queen Elizabeth was brought up to be a future Queen. Albert was not.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 08-01-2011, 03:44 PM
olebabs's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Århus, Denmark
Posts: 283
From what I have read in various book on King Edward VIII, it seems to me that he was not interested in being king at all, and so one can conclude that Wallis was simply an excuse. I do not however doubt that he loved her.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 08-01-2011, 03:46 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 3,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Yes I am saying that the pressure placed on King George after being forced to assume his brothers role, placed him in an early grave.
Queen Elizabeth was brought up to be a future Queen. Albert was not.
I have to agree with you here. The pressure was great on Bertie especially during the WWII years. It is a known fact that King George died from lung cancer and that he was a heavy smoker but I can attest also as a smoker myself, during times of stress I do reach for a smoke a lot more than I would during times of no stress. Stress even for non smokers has a detrimental effect on health.

I find it very plausible that QEQM would lay the blame for an early death on the stresses of unexpectedly becoming monarch. Even so, they both did a wonderful job during the war years.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 08-01-2011, 04:16 PM
Vasillisos Markos's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Crete, United States
Posts: 1,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue sky View Post
It seems the late Queen Mother was such a vindictive person who hated the Duchess of Windsor to the end (and scorned the fact that Mrs Simpson was twice divorced etc), that it is "ironic" and "fitting" that she was alive to witness the demise of the marriages of her daughter, Margaret, and her grandchildren, Charles, Andrew, and Anne.
Ouch, Blue Sky, that seems to be a harsh assessment. I think that when the Duke died, or maybe it was when the Duchess died, the Queen Mother was quoted as saying that the two loved one another and had a successful marriage. this does not sound like a vindictive person to me.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 08-01-2011, 07:09 PM
XeniaCasaraghi's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 1729 Noneofyourbusiness Drive, United States
Posts: 2,271
Well perhaps it is just irony, one of the greatest love stories of the 20th century never resulted in children; and the Queen Mother who was part of the faction who disliked Wallis Simpson because she was divorced, ended seeing her daughter divorced and three of her grandchildren divorced.
__________________

__________________
Princess Grace, April 19, 1956
Princess Margaret Rose, May 6, 1960
Crown Princess Mette-Marit, August 25, 2001
Jaqueline Bouvier Kennedy, September 12, 1953
Countess Stephanie of Belgium October 20, 2012
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother (1900-2002) Josefine British Royals 414 07-20-2014 09:06 PM
Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986) Jacqueline British Royals 1131 07-08-2014 05:55 PM
Relationship of the Royal Family with The Duchess of Cornwall? HMQueenElizabethII The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall 383 04-29-2014 06:25 AM
Duchess Of Windsor Jewellery micas Royal Jewels 200 12-12-2013 10:34 PM
The Duke and Duchess of Windsor Duchess Royal Library 106 07-15-2013 11:49 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events danish royals engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta cristina infanta elena infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg ottoman pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince laurent prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess elisabeth princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia spain state visit wedding william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:37 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]