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  #21  
Old 02-27-2008, 12:10 PM
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It is astounding how when the media in a country steers the direction of president's (or even Prime Minister) image as good or bad or indifferent, and then saturates it's country populace with good or bad or indifferent views of the elected president, the country's then populace start to believe and feel that either EVERYONE loves or hates this person. And then this becomes the norm to think.

What we must remember, and Elspeth put it so appropriately, is that the person was elected and polls of a 1,000 people do not statistically or mathematically represent the country as a whole, or even a tiny percentage. The media just wants you to believe that.

I am typing this all in general terms to apply to any country including my own.
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  #22  
Old 02-27-2008, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
What we must remember, and Elspeth put it so appropriately, is that the person was elected and polls of a 1,000 people do not statistically or mathematically represent the country as a whole, or even a tiny percentage. The media just wants you to believe that.


Though I agree that we shouldn't be bashing heads of state on here, yes, those polls are scientific in nature and do "statistically or mathematically" represent the country as a whole, especially when there have been so very many over such a long time. I don't really think polls are media conspiracies to shape the politics of a country, and I think saying that is just as bad.
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  #23  
Old 02-27-2008, 01:39 PM
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In this case I don't think it's bashing President Sarkozy to say that his attitude to this state visit is disgraceful, to be honest.
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  #24  
Old 02-27-2008, 01:44 PM
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But where's this attitude? All we've got is hear say.
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  #25  
Old 02-27-2008, 01:46 PM
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He's cutting a state visit in half when there isn't any reason to do so. That's arrogant and inconsiderate.
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  #26  
Old 02-27-2008, 01:48 PM
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Oh come on, how do you know there's no reason for it? It seems to me that ever since he married a pretty model he's been Hitler. His state visit is a short one, maybe he doesn't have time for all the pomp and pageantry and return dinners etc.
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
It is astounding how when the media in a country steers the direction of president's (or even Prime Minister) image as good or bad or indifferent, and then saturates it's country populace with good or bad or indifferent views of the elected president, the country's then populace start to believe and feel that either EVERYONE loves or hates this person. And then this becomes the norm to think.

What we must remember, and Elspeth put it so appropriately, is that the person was elected and polls of a 1,000 people do not statistically or mathematically represent the country as a whole, or even a tiny percentage. The media just wants you to believe that.

I am typing this all in general terms to apply to any country including my own.
Working in PR I know what you mean. However, the media did not forcehim to meet, marry and make a fool of himself within a month. Nor did they force him to give the same ring to two women.

Generally speaking, in the past, (and I did live in Paris) I have admired the French press' attitude towards the personal life of their political leaders. As long as it did not affect the job, what they did in their own time was, if not okay, then at least private. However, this one has made such a mess of it all, and in such spectacular fashion, that it screams to be made a story. In all honesty he certainly does not have a stellar past when it comes to relationships, but this is astounding to me, not to mention ridiculous. He should remember that he represents the French people, and since he has chosen such a stupid way of making sure that he is written about, he now needs to take more care with what he does. As with royalty, political leaders are now answerable to the people, and as they represent the people, they should at least be discreet in their less than savoury affairs. I would not be surprised if this particular political leader finds himself out the door sooner than he would like. At least now Bush has a friend. Misery loves company they say.

And Sam, as far as I know there are no strikes, no bank scandals or anything else about the country of France, that would cause the French president to cut yet another state visit short a full month prior to the visit.

No one cares that he married a young model/ singer. It's the manner in which he has done it and the disregard he has shown for common decency and manners since that time.
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  #28  
Old 02-27-2008, 02:03 PM
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However, the media did not forcehim to meet, marry and make a fool of himself within a month. Nor did they force him to give the same ring to two women.
What on earth does this have to do with his work as President?
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  #29  
Old 02-27-2008, 02:05 PM
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I am inclined to agree with BeatrixFan on this matter. The French state visit was reportedly cut short. I dare to assume Mr. Sarkozy has got serious reasons for doing so. The fuss around the state visit in question is a bit premature.
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2008, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Oh come on, how do you know there's no reason for it? It seems to me that ever since he married a pretty model he's been Hitler. His state visit is a short one, maybe he doesn't have time for all the pomp and pageantry and return dinners etc.

France isn't in the middle of some crisis that demands his personal attention. He's stated well in advance that he won't be staying for the length of time for which he was invited - it's his free choice to reject HM's offered hospitality, and apparently he's doing it because he doesn't want to stay for the full length of time, not because he's under any compulsion to cut the visit short. Since international diplomacy is part of the duty of the Head of State and since state visits are a traditional part of international diplomacy, he's letting his own people down as well as snubbing our head of state.

As far as not having time for return dinners - that means that he's taking and not giving back in return. Which is discourteous.

If the Queen was invited to pay a state visit to somewhere and announced weeks ahead of time that, thanks, but I'll only be staying for half the time you've invited me for, and I'll eat your dinner but won't provide a return dinner, and I'm not interested in visiting the people you've invited me to visit, you'd be the first one to come along in high indignation wondering what we pay these royal freeloaders for. Works the same way for the president of a republic.
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  #31  
Old 02-27-2008, 02:08 PM
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I know it's next month but some news from today are, hum....interesting.

Speedy Sarkozy cuts short Queen visit after confessing: 'I love my Paris bed too much' | the Daily Mail

It doesn't sound good at all. I can't imagine our "dear" Presidential couple, epitome of the "Bling bling" vulgarity, in Windsor.
Well i'm french, i'm pround of my country and my history but i must say that i'am totally ashamed by my head of state's behaviour, and his wife, gosh, did you know that she wants to bring her guitare with her during the visit and sing for the Queen?
The british members of the board must know something: Mr Sarkozy will use your Queen, and all the visit, for PR purpose.... "vive l'entente cordiale"

LOL! Carla wants to do what??! Has Her Majesty requested a song from Madame Bruni-Sarkozy or whatever she is?? Because if she has not, then Carla should leave the entertainment at State events to the experts! Good grief, this couple sounds almost too good to be true as far as the tabloids go.

I feel your pain Nico but just be thankful that you don't live here in America where we are given a minute by minute report on the progress of Britney Spears mental breakdowns. Or given-in excruciating detail-the progress of some starlet's pregnancy or battles with weight. Really I couldn't care less....I'd trade places with you French in a nano-second!
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  #32  
Old 02-27-2008, 02:09 PM
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It has nothing to do with his ability to carry out the work of the president per se, but it has everything to do with the type of person that he is, which naturally reflects on his abilities.

If he is so wrapped up in his new relationship that he can not or will not conscientiously carry out the duties that a president must carry out, and instruct his first lady to also do so, with class,grace and dignity, then how are other world leaders supposed to take him seriously? And if they are unable to take him seriously, then how are they supposed to conduct business with him?
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  #33  
Old 02-27-2008, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
France isn't in the middle of some crisis that demands his personal attention. He's stated well in advance that he won't be staying for the length of time for which he was invited - it's his free choice to reject HM's offered hospitality, and apparently he's doing it because he doesn't want to stay for the full length of time, not because he's under any compulsion to cut the visit short. Since international diplomacy is part of the duty of the Head of State and since state visits are a traditional part of international diplomacy, he's letting his own people down as well as snubbing our head of state.

As far as not having time for return dinners - that means that he's taking and not giving back in return. Which is discourteous.

If the Queen was invited to pay a state visit to somewhere and announced weeks ahead of time that, thanks, but I'll only be staying for half the time you've invited me for, and I'll eat your dinner but won't provide a return dinner, and I'm not interested in visiting the people you've invited me to visit, you'd be the first one to come along in high indignation wondering what we pay these royal freeloaders for. Works the same way for the president of a republic.

Brilliantly stated Elspeth and I couldn't agree more. Seriously, how did this man get voted into office with his attitude? I wonder if he has paid a visit to the Vatican yet...(shudders at the possibilities there!)
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  #34  
Old 02-27-2008, 02:13 PM
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I am inclined to agree with BeatrixFan on this matter. The French state visit was reportedly cut short. I dare to assume Mr. Sarkozy has got serious reasons for doing so. The fuss around the state visit in question is a bit premature.

No reportedly about it. Please check here. It has already been changed on the BRF website and reads as follows:

Wednesday, 26th March 2008


The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh and 27th March - The President of the French Republic and Madame Nicolas Sarkozy will pay a State Visit to the United Kingdom and stay at Windsor Castle.
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  #35  
Old 02-27-2008, 02:59 PM
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I am inclined to agree with BeatrixFan on this matter. The French state visit was reportedly cut short.
It's official:
Media Centre > Event highlights > French State Visit, March 2008
And the mention "Madame Sarkozy" has appeared...

I use to say that we have, in France a "frustrated monarchy". We adore the image of a providential man as head of state, surrounded by all the republican glitter, with a certain "grandeur" in his attitude( and some discretion in his private life). That's true! De Gaulle, for exemple, was elected "french man of the 20 th century" in a recent poll. The big problem with Sarkozy is that he is destroying this model of the "president of all the french". After 12 years of a sometimes goofy but sympathetic Chirac and his sometimes dowdy but always dignifed Bernadette, we had, in 10 months, the epitome of the "nouveau riche" behaviour including power, arrogance, money, sex, divorce and finally a wedding (in de Gaulle's office at the Elysee) with an ex model 2 months after this divorce, all that mess showed on TV day after day. It's just a little too much for a lot of people....
It's not only about his personnal life, the political situation is not the best .This little big man promised a lot of things....

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  #36  
Old 02-27-2008, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
France isn't in the middle of some crisis that demands his personal attention. He's stated well in advance that he won't be staying for the length of time for which he was invited - it's his free choice to reject HM's offered hospitality, and apparently he's doing it because he doesn't want to stay for the full length of time, not because he's under any compulsion to cut the visit short. Since international diplomacy is part of the duty of the Head of State and since state visits are a traditional part of international diplomacy, he's letting his own people down as well as snubbing our head of state.

As far as not having time for return dinners - that means that he's taking and not giving back in return. Which is discourteous.

If the Queen was invited to pay a state visit to somewhere and announced weeks ahead of time that, thanks, but I'll only be staying for half the time you've invited me for, and I'll eat your dinner but won't provide a return dinner, and I'm not interested in visiting the people you've invited me to visit, you'd be the first one to come along in high indignation wondering what we pay these royal freeloaders for. Works the same way for the president of a republic.
I'm sorry, I disagree. When the Queen next goes to France, that's an opportunity to repay the favour. I think the objection to his visit is nothing to do with Mr Sarzoky, it's because he's married a model and that's too ridiculous for words. Look at the negative statements that are already surfacing about Madame Sarzoky as if she should sit in a dark room in a burkah and never be seen. He's been invited to visit Britain, he is visiting Britain. He is bringing his wife. He isn't spending a week, he's spending a couple of days. Where's the problem in that? I think all this "discourteous" stuff is just an excuse, the real reason people seem to be against the man is that he's married a pretty young wife.
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  #37  
Old 02-27-2008, 03:10 PM
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I wonder if he has paid a visit to the Vatican yet
Ooooh yes and guess what? He brought with him, to the Vatican, Jean Marie Bigard. Who is Jean Marie Bigard: well he is a french "comic" who loves doing **** ,sex and sometimes anti-clerical jokes. Why he was there? Because he is a friend of the boss and he wanted to see the pope "for the fun".
Can you imagine that?
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  #38  
Old 02-27-2008, 03:14 PM
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I just saw the evening news. Sarkozy and Carla are visiting Chad and guess what was shown : her, cuddling his face in the car. Can't she behave while on duty ?!! Philip will be pleased I'm sure ...
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  #39  
Old 02-27-2008, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
No reportedly about it. Please check here. It has already been changed on the BRF website and reads as follows:

[shortened]
The word “reportedly” has been used due to the fact that the source of information was Daily Mail known for providing inaccurate information. Still I for one think that French President has got his reasons for cutting the visit short. There is no need to create a drama.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
It's official:

[shortened] in 10 months, the epitome of the "nouveau riche" behaviour including power, arrogance, money, sex, divorce and finally a wedding (in de Gaulle's office at the Elysee) with an ex model 2 months after this divorce, all that mess showed on TV day after day. It's just a little too much for a lot of people....
It's not only about his personnal life, the political situation is not the best .This little big man promised a lot of things....
Mr. Sarkozy has democratically been elected by French. Nothing else should be added to this.
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Old 02-27-2008, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
I'm sorry, I disagree. When the Queen next goes to France, that's an opportunity to repay the favour. I think the objection to his visit is nothing to do with Mr Sarzoky, it's because he's married a model and that's too ridiculous for words. Look at the negative statements that are already surfacing about Madame Sarzoky as if she should sit in a dark room in a burkah and never be seen. He's been invited to visit Britain, he is visiting Britain. He is bringing his wife. He isn't spending a week, he's spending a couple of days. Where's the problem in that? I think all this "discourteous" stuff is just an excuse, the real reason people seem to be against the man is that he's married a pretty young wife.
Far as I'm concerned, it has nothing to do with his wife. He's the one who made the decision, in the absence of a national crisis in France, to respond to the invitation to spend two days on a state visit by saying that he didn't want to do that but would only be visiting for one day. On a state visit, the return dinner is the opportunity for the guest to publicly thank the host; the visits to people and places of interest to the guest are part of the diplomacy involved in the visit. Unless his attitude to this visit is explicitly to do with his wife, then as far as I'm concerned she's irrelevant and he's still behaving disgracefully.
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