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  #61  
Old 02-11-2012, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
I believe the late Queen Mother last wore that crown at her daughter's coronation in 1953, with the arches and the velvet cap removed. I'm not sure if she would have worn it at the state openings of Parliament or not. (There was no photography of Parliament in session at the time, and I've never seen a written description of the event from back then. If she did, it would have only been a few times, as ceremony was curtailed quite a lot during the war and its aftermath.)
She also wore her crown without the arches at the State Visit of President De Gaulle to the UK a few years later.
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  #62  
Old 03-05-2012, 07:07 PM
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I have been looking at some pictures of the Queen's coronation and would appreciate if someone could explain why Princess Margaret wore a coronet whereas other Princesses such as Princess Marina & Alexandra wore tiaras.
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  #63  
Old 03-05-2012, 07:11 PM
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I have been looking at some pictures of the Queen's coronation and would appreciate if someone could explain why Princess Margaret wore a coronet whereas other Princesses such as Princess Marina & Alexandra wore tiaras.
Margaret wore a coronet as the daughter of a King. Not sure if Marina had her coronet as a duchess or not. Alexandra was still only 16 so that is probably why she had no coronet or tiara.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:24 PM
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Thank you for your reply . I' m still a little curious that the Princess Royal and other senior Royals are mainly wearing tiaras rather than coronets
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:30 PM
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I guess it depends on the pictures you are looking at and when they were taken. The important moment for wearing the coronets is the moment the monarch is crowned. They may have chosen to remove their coronets for the posed pictures, since it must be odd wearing both their tiaras and coronets at the same time.
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  #66  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:47 PM
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Yes I see what you mean NGalitzine. I found a further reference to Princess Margaret wearing the halo tiara for the coronation. However in the large group pic in the official portrait of the senior royals there is a mixture of tiara and coronets being worn, so there doesn't appear to be a protocol.
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  #67  
Old 03-06-2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Elly C View Post
I have been looking at some pictures of the Queen's coronation and would appreciate if someone could explain why Princess Margaret wore a coronet whereas other Princesses such as Princess Marina & Alexandra wore tiaras.
As far as I remember (without my books beside me) Princess Alexandra was only 16 at the time of the coronation and did not wear a tiara to the ceremony, but DID put on the coronet of a sovereign's granddaughter at the appropriate moment.

Most of the other British women wore tiaras if they were entitled to do so, with peeresses putting on the coronets of their rank at the moment of crowning.
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Old 03-11-2012, 12:06 PM
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Tiaras and Coronets

In the first group picture below you can see [from the left] the Duchess of Kent, Princess Margaret, [and on the right] the Princess Royal and the Duchess of Gloucester all wearing both tiaras and coronets.

The second cropped image includes Princess Alexandra in coronet alone.

v Coronation 1953, formal group photos at BP
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  #69  
Old 03-11-2012, 12:15 PM
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I'm not sure where to ask this question, but since it deals with coronation, I suppose it's the right thread. I apologise if this has been discussed before.

It is my understanding that from the times of Queen Adelaide, all Queens Consort (Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen, Alexandra of Denmark, Mary of Teck and Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon) have worn crowns specially made for them. So, I was wondering, for the coronation of the current Prince of Wales, will the Duchess of Cornwall wear a Consort Crown specifically made for her? Or will she wear Mary of Modena's Crown, as was the tradition before Queen Adelaide?
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Old 03-11-2012, 12:18 PM
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Probably no way to know for sure. I expect that if Camilla is crowned as his Queen Consort she would wear the crown worn by his grandmother Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother.
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  #71  
Old 03-11-2012, 12:24 PM
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But there is little doubt she will be crowned, isn't there? Whatever title Camilla plans to be known by, she will legally be Charles' Queen Consort. And since the times of Matilda of Flanders (William the Conqueror's consort), only eight queens consort weren't crowned:
- Margaret of France (Edward I's second wife)
- Jane Seymour (Henry VIII's third wife)
- Anne of Cleves (Henry VIII's fourth wife)
- Catherine Howard (Henry VIII's fifth wife)
- Catherine Parr (Henry VIII's sixth wife)
- Henrietta of France (Charles I's wife)
- Catherine of Braganza (Charles II's wife)
- Caroline of Brunswick (George IV's wife)

Four of them were Henry VIII's wives, and the last uncrowned queen consort was Caroline of Brunswick:
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  #72  
Old 03-12-2012, 10:28 PM
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I believe that Mary of Modena's crown fell into disrepair, which is why they had to make a new crown for Queen Adelaide. They certainly would not use it today.

Queen Adelaide's consort crown was also in poor shape in 1902, if I remember correctly. That's why a new crown was created for Queen Alexandra. I believe Queen Mary and the Queen Mother got new crowns because the previous queen consort was still using hers.
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  #73  
Old 03-14-2012, 06:06 PM
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I hope Charles doesn't change a thing! I am sorry but for such a rare even like a Coronation! Its only fair for this generation to get the full splendor of the event!
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  #74  
Old 03-14-2012, 07:28 PM
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I hope Charles doesn't change a thing! I am sorry but for such a rare even like a Coronation! Its only fair for this generation to get the full splendor of the event!
I would guess that the government of the day will have a great deal of input regarding what changes are necessary for the 21st century, especially in terms of guests. I would expect a much smaller representation of hereditary peers since they no longer sit in the House of Lords, probably only the premier peers or each rank and peerage, and then a selection of the life peers. Probably more guests representation from cultural/charity groups and from the Commonwealth than in 1953. A lot will probably depend on the economy at the time of the succession. If there is a recession then a lot of expense and glitter will not be viewed favorably.
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  #75  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:53 PM
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I'd say one of the biggest changes will be the involvement of representatives of other denominations. Even though the coronation takes place in the middle of the Anglican service of communion I can't see why the Archbishop of Westminster (for example) could not give a reading or a prayer.

There seems to have been a much greater emphasis on ecumenism in Royal services of late and so I would expect the non-Anglican Christian faiths to have some part to play.

While I cant see representatives of non Christian faiths taking an active part in the service I expect they would be there. It seems to fit with Prince Charles' interest in other faiths and the recognition that Britain and other nations of which Charles will be crowned King are now much more multi-faith.
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  #76  
Old 03-15-2012, 12:10 AM
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^^^^^
Yes, I would expect multi faith representation as well.
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  #77  
Old 05-12-2012, 08:23 PM
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'There was a wonder as Papa was crowned': What Princess Elizabeth, 11, thought of her father's magnificent - if chaotic - Coronation
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The Queen’s attendance at the State Opening of Parliament last Wednesday was the highlight of her Diamond Jubilee so far, a reminder of her vital place in the constitution. On the day she made that formal visit to the Palace of Westminster, she was a ‘real’ Queen, wearing the George IV Diadem and later the Imperial State Crown with its 3,000 precious stones, Black Prince’s Ruby and St Edward’s Sapphire. It is almost impossible to believe that, this weekend, 75 years have passed since the Queen, then Princess Elizabeth, witnessed her father King George VI leave Westminster Abbey wearing that same crown following his Coronation in the Abbey on May 12, 1937.
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  #78  
Old 05-13-2012, 10:10 AM
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Very funny description, with some humouristic elements
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  #79  
Old 05-13-2012, 07:50 PM
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Some excerpts from Artemisia's Mail Online link regarding the coronation of King George VI in 1937...

"I thought it very, very wonderful and I expect the Abbey did too.
The arches and beams at the top were covered with a sort of haze of wonder as Papa was crowned, at least I thought so
.
"

- Princess Elizabeth, on her father's coronation


It is almost impossible to believe that, this weekend, 75 years have passed since the Queen, then Princess Elizabeth, witnessed her father King George VI leave Westminster Abbey wearing that same [Imperial State] Crown following his Coronation in the Abbey on May 12, 1937.

The ceremony took place a mere five months after the abdication of King Edward VIII in December 1936. Princess Elizabeth went to Westminster Abbey wearing a long dress and train and carrying her coronet. She processed to the Royal Box. There Princess Margaret wriggled back into her chair and was tempted to swing her legs, but Princess Elizabeth glared at her severely.

The wife of the Bishop of Chichester observed Queen Elizabeth entering, ‘looking very grave, her little smooth brown head, unadorned, a contrast to all the tiaras’ and how as she passed to her seat, she and her ladies bowed to the Altar ‘and then came a gleam of a smile across her serious face as she saw the two eager little faces looking out at her from the Royal Box’.

Princess Elizabeth wrote an account of the day, describing the ‘jolty’ ride in the coach with her sister, Princess Margaret, and her aunt Mary, the Princess Royal. Of the crowning she wrote: ‘I thought it very, very wonderful and I expect the Abbey did too. The arches and beams at the top were covered with a sort of haze of wonder as Papa was crowned, at least I thought so.’

The Princess saw the Archbishop of Canterbury fumbling with the crown, George VI not at all sure if it had been put on the right way round. She may well have heard her father complain that one of the supporting bishops had stood on his robes and how he had to tell him sharpish to get off. Aesthete Sir Osbert Sitwell thought the King looked like ‘a medieval missal, grave, white and lean, and went through his duties with the simplicity of movement and gesture of a great actor’, while Cecil Beaton noted that since the King had taken up his duties with such devotion, he had acquired ‘an added beauty and nobility. It is the same metamorphosis that comes to a cinema star. As with his beauty, so his speech. The technical difficulties have been overcome and his voice is solemn, deep and emotional.’Princess Elizabeth no doubt noticed that her grandmother Queen Mary was so moved during the anointing that she wept. The Archbishop of Canterbury and the Duke of Norfolk (the Earl Marshal) edited this out of the final film shown in cinemas. The Duke cited this as a reason to exclude television cameras from the Queen’s Coronation in 1953, though eventually he was overruled by popular opinion and the ceremony was televised.

Perhaps the most astonishing claim was made by the 10th Duke of Argyll, whose ducal status afforded him a front-row seat behind the Royal Dukes. Niall Argyll was a sober witness to the proceedings, his mind dwelling on such matters as why the Archbishop of Canterbury did not wear a mitre, or how, as server, the same prelate failed to start the chant of the Veni Creator: ‘I really doubt if he even knows how to chant at all. Then he only bowed his head at the Incarnatus and did not kneel.’ He told a friend that the Duke of Atholl had told him at the enthronement: ‘And just to think how you and I were all about to take up our pens and refuse to attend Edward’s crowning had he not abdicated.’ Atholl asserted that not even 30 would have attended out of the 700 or so peers.

This may have been post-abdication bravado, but it is indicative of the mood that welcomed George VI. The dereliction of duty by Edward VIII in favour of the perceived path of happiness with Wallis Simpson, and the stress that this imposed on her father, considerably influenced the way the Queen has conducted her reign. Duty has always been her watchword.

Behind the scenes there was considerable drama, much of which would have escaped the young Princess at the time. The Lord Chancellor’s Office considered the thorny question as to whether bankrupt peers should be summoned. The most notable was the Marquess of Winchester who, under normal circumstances would have done homage as representative Marquess. He and other peers were not summoned. The 2nd Baron Sinha was not recognised as eligible to sit in the House of Lords – despite being the rightful heir of his father and a peer since 1928. The 7th Marquess Townshend, born on May 13, 1916, a minor peer since 1921, did not come of age until midnight so he was not allowed to take his place among the peers.

On Coronation Day, the Dean of Westminster, Dr Christopher Foxley-Norris, fell down some steps while carrying St Edward’s Crown, which only survived due to some ribbons attached to the cushion. The Duke of Somerset described the Dean as ‘like a half awake bat bewildered and incompetent, slow in all his actions’. He put the regalia in the wrong order on the High Altar and twice handed the wrong sceptre to the wrong peer. When he gave the Queen’s crown to the Duke of Portland, he got it tangled up in the Duke’s Garter collar.

Prince Arthur of Connaught’s page, Lord Richard Percy, was constantly swept aside as priests came in with the regalia and the choir of the Chapel Royal passed. Cascades of chocolates and lozenges fell out of the Duke of Marlborough’s coronet. The Marquess of Donegall, who wrote a column in The Sunday Dispatch, was frequently asleep. The Duke of Argyll commented: ‘His description in the Papers will be all the more vivid of all that he had not seen!’
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  #80  
Old 05-31-2012, 08:19 PM
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The Queen's crowning glory: Spectacular newly restored images bring the Coronation to colourful life as never before
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They are some of the most famous scenes in TV history. For millions of people in Britain and around the world, this was their first experience of ‘the box’, as dumbstruck families clustered around newly acquired black-and-white screens to watch the Coronation in June 1953. But the TV cameras were not the only ones there that day. An entire film production unit was also at Westminster Abbey and in the streets of London to record a feature-length film of the ceremony in ‘glorious Technicolor’. Within days, A Queen Is Crowned was playing to packed cinemas around the world. And now, thanks to the latest digital technology, it has been reborn in time for the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee — and is re-released on DVD this week.
Stunning pictures.
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