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  #261  
Old 08-22-2015, 05:18 PM
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I don't think Christianity will be the largest religion in the UK either. The Church of England at one time was RC. Its now Anglican and before too long I think it will be islamic.

One way or the other though, I think we will have an established church for a while yet. Even if the church is not Christian.

I'm a practicing Anglican who believes the Queen should be the Supreme Governor of the Church of England but the numbers don't lie Islam is growing exponentially in Britain
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  #262  
Old 08-22-2015, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I don't think Christianity will be the largest religion in the UK either. The Church of England at one time was RC. Its now Anglican and before too long I think it will be islamic.

One way or the other though, I think we will have an established church for a while yet. Even if the church is not Christian.

I'm a practicing Anglican who believes the Queen should be the Supreme Governor of the Church of England but the numbers don't lie Islam is growing exponentially in Britain
I agree it is a matter of law for Parliament to decide, but I can't imagine any PM introducing legislation to disestablish the CofE without first consulting the monarch. In that sense, the fact that Charles seems to be OK with it removes a major obstacle to disestablishment IMHO.

As far as the position of faith leaders in the UK is concerned, I honestly can't tell. Just as a comparison though, most churches in the US historically supported separation of Church of State provided that it came together with a strong constitutional guarantee of freedom of worship. That is what ultimately happened with the First Amendment to the US constitution. The concept of a secular state is very different then, for example, in France and the US. In the anti-clerical French tradition, separation of Church and States is seen as a way to suppress relgion and erradicate it from public life. In the US, on the contrary, a secular state is seen as the best way to guarantee that all religions are treated equally and can be freely practiced without favoring any particular church or sect over the others.

There are many things I dislike about US government, but separation of Church and State, in the American tradition, is one of the things I admire the most in the US Constitution. At the time of US independence, it was a truly modern and revolutionary concept.
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  #263  
Old 08-22-2015, 05:34 PM
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Princess Elizabeth proclaimed Queen

Quote:
"Whereas it has pleased Almighty God to call to his mercy our late Sovereign Lord King George VI, of blessed and glorious memory, by whose Decease the Crown is solely and rightfully come to the High and Mighty Princess Elizabeth Alexandra Mary:

We, therefore, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal of the Realm, being assisted with these His late Majesty's Privy Council, with representatives of other Members of the Commonwealth, with other Principal Gentlemen of Quality, with the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Citizens of London, do now hereby with one Voice and Consent of Tongue and Heart publish and proclaim, That the High and Mighty Princess Elizabeth Alexandra Mary is now, by the death of our late Sovereign of happy memory, become Queen Elizabeth II by the Grace of God, Queen of the Realm, and Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, to whom Her Lieges do acknowledge all Faith, and constant Obedience with hearty and humble Affection, beseeching God by whom Kings and Queens do reign, to bless the Royal Princess, Elizabeth II, with long and happy Years to reign over us.

God Save The Queen"

Princess Elizabeth is formally proclaimed Queen and Head of the Commonwealth and Defender of the Faith.
Lords of the Privy Council - numbering 150 - representatives from the Commonwealth, officials from the City of London - including the Lord Mayor - and other dignitaries witnessed the accession of the deceased king's eldest daughter on 6 February 1952.
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  #264  
Old 08-22-2015, 05:54 PM
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Rudolph, please correct me if I am wrong but didn't the government get rid of the post of Minister for Faiths this week? Islam is growing hugely, currently, but and please forgive me if I am getting repititive but none of us know what the future holds. I have also heard that POW does not want to be known as King Charles due to the histories of the previous occupiers of that title.
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  #265  
Old 08-22-2015, 06:07 PM
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Yes, Islam is growing in numbers all over Europe because of immigration and births but its outnumbered in speed by more and more people (even cultural Moslems) becoming agnostic, atheist or irreligious so I'm absolutely positive that we won't see an Islamic state in Europe in the foreseeable future.


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  #266  
Old 08-22-2015, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Yes, Islam is growing in numbers all over Europe because of immigration and births but its outnumbered in speed by more and more people (even cultural Moslems) becoming agnostic, atheist or irreligious so I'm absolutely positive that we won't see an Islamic state in Europe in the foreseeable future.


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Exactly. The fastest growing "religions", at least in northern Europe, are actually agnosticism and atheism, i.e. no religion at all.

In southern Europe, on the other hand, although most people don't really care too much about religion in their private lives, I think they are reluctant to say openly that they are agnostic or not affiliated e.g. with the Catholic church. What I mean is that even people who never go to church have church weddings and baptize their children. I guess it is mostly a cultural thing.
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  #267  
Old 08-22-2015, 07:02 PM
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Also in the United Kingdom the secularization is unstoppable and also there, in a more and more multi-ethnic and multi-religious society, the Anglican church, complete with Bishops residing in Parliament and with a head of state so glued to one specific Faith with an elitist position, will change. I predict that, like in the once oh so Catholic Spain or the oh so Lutheran Denmark, the position of the head of state will become completely secular, as will be the solemn ceremonies of state. Mark my words. Britain will be unrecognizeably changed in four/five decades and the position of King William as well his Coronation will be different. Note that already since Pope Paulus VI even the Vatican has abolished coronations. We will see a more sort of solemn Investiture. Mark my words.
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  #268  
Old 08-22-2015, 07:27 PM
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As long as there is a monarchy in Britain we will have coronations. Europe has its way of doing things, Kings walking off the job. Queens taking their oath of office at city hall like a common civil servant. To each country their customs but Britain is about pomp and circumstance. Its about Lords Spiritual and Temporal.

Its about the Earl Marshall and Hereditary Marshall of England. Its about the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury asking Her Majesty -

Will you to the utmost of your power maintain the Laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel? Will you to the utmost of your power maintain in the United Kingdom the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law? Will you maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government thereof, as by law established in England? And will you preserve unto the Bishops and Clergy of England, and to the Churches there committed to their charge, all such rights and privileges, as by law do or shall appertain to them or any of them?

England will be last as it was first.
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  #269  
Old 08-22-2015, 08:43 PM
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Hopefully I will see the coronations of King Charles III & King William V and I truly hope they are coronations and not installations or inaugurations. I think most people in the UK would as well.

Britain loves its pomp and circumstance as seen by the ceremonial funeral of the Queen Mother, the celebration of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Royal Wedding. Inaugurations may work well on the continent but I don't think they are right for Britain.

By all means tweak the coronation but I don't think Britain is quite ready to do way with it yet.
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  #270  
Old 08-22-2015, 08:57 PM
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One thing the British monarchy represents is the continuity of its people and the rich history behind them. To do away with some of the ages old traditions as far as coronations and the State Opening of Parliament and other much loved British traditions would be like changing tea time to coffee time. It just doesn't have the same flavor and makes everything else so ordinary. People take pride in their heritage and its been those time honored ceremonies and rituals that makes their history come alive and appreciated.
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  #271  
Old 08-23-2015, 03:21 AM
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The House of Lords is under constant fire. More and more people are fed up with the fine unelected lord- and ladyships snoring in their benches, suddenly waking up: "Uh oh... where can I sign for my day-allowance?" or "Uh oh... just bought a pair of sunglasses at Harrod's, where is the form to declare my expenses?"

The "Scottish Question" is on the table again, with Scottish leader Nicolae Sturgeon having higher and higher approval ratings while Labour is completely fallen to ruins in their once unbreakable stronghold which was Scotland. Another referendum is looming on the horizon.

The former Archbishop of Canterbury, George Carey, as well the present one, Justin Welby, have warned that the Church of England is "one generation away from extinction". See link.

All this: the more and more urgent reorganization of the House of Lords into an elected Upper House with the end of all the privileges of the "established Church", the still snoring giant which is "the Scottish Question" prying for any opportunity to break the Union, the changes in the UK demography which go with an unbelievable speed, the ever increasing trek from the traditional rural communities which kept the old values of Church, Monarchy and "Britishness" to the big, anonymous metropoles, expecially London. The biggest Pearls in the Crown which will undoubtedly move towards a republican form of State after the demise of the present Queen (Australia and Canada).

But no... "nothing will change". The Lords Peers will remain to take their cloths out of the mothballs, the Archbishop will still anoint the new King as if he is blessing a new Pope? Sometimes I think you need to be a bystander, like me -at the other side of the Channel- to see the changes sharper than when you are living within. I am sure we all will see dramatic changes. In all monarchies by the way. The British included.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
[...] To do away with some of the ages old traditions as far as coronations and the State Opening of Parliament and other much loved British traditions [...]
Have you ever read the comments in the newspapers (if allowed, some newspapers wisely do not allow comments under royal articles) when there has been a State Openening of Parliament again? When a lady from head to toe bedecked in jewels, wearing an ermine cloak and transported in a guilded carriage, announced -flat faced and without emotion- the one draconic cut after the other, and all of course hard-hitting the lowest-paid. This with approval knicks from the head by the Lords in their finery (or where it knicks from snoring under their wigs?) Then this "much loved British tradition" is maybe not really that very much loved amongst a substantial part of society, I dare to say.

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  #272  
Old 08-23-2015, 04:27 AM
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This ceremony also reminds everyone that The Monarch is outlining the democratically elected governments, schedule for their time in office. Yes it is a tiaria and ermine event and part of the reason The British Royal Family has an added allure to many world wide is that very grandeur. The House of Lords is an issue that will IMHO rumble on for quite some time. What is the alternative, HM turns up in a dress, coat, wonderful brooch and bearing her handbag to open Parliament?
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  #273  
Old 08-23-2015, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Have you ever read the comments in the newspapers (if allowed, some newspapers wisely do not allow comments under royal articles) when there has been a State Openening of Parliament again? When a lady from head to toe bedecked in jewels, wearing an ermine cloak and transported in a guilded carriage, announced -flat faced and without emotion- the one draconic cut after the other, and all of course hard-hitting the lowest-paid. This with approval knicks from the head by the Lords in their finery (or where it knicks from snoring under their wigs?) Then this "much loved British tradition" is maybe not really that very much loved amongst a substantial part of society, I dare to say.


And the beauty of online comments is that they are not confined to citizens of the UK or any of the other countries of which the British monarch is also Queen. They can be made by anyone from anywhere.

I dare say the comments on an Internet website are no more representative of the feelings of British citizens than they are of the citizens of any other country.

I don't doubt that the coronation will change or perhaps be done away with (as might the monarchy itself) but I don't think it will happen by the next coronation.
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  #274  
Old 08-23-2015, 05:29 AM
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The British monarchy will remain one of the grandest monarchies. Of course. But opening the windows and cleaning the dust off might be a good revamp. King George VI of course still reigned after WWII but he was a sick man, Britain was on his knees, exhausted from the war and the start of the crumbling of the Empire (the Pearl in the Crown which went lost in 1947).

Queen Elizabeth came on the throne in 1952. We can more or less say that her Reign lasted from the post-WWII years until the day of today. When this Queen remains a few years, she has been so long Queen as is the time when a British baby is born until his/her retirement on the age of 65... All these years there has only been one chef.

When we look to Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands or the Vatican, we see that every new King brings a new energy, a fresh breath, changes also in traditions. It is very well possible that the kingship of Charles or William will be most different from that of the present one, based on the Monarchy Model 1952.

By the way, Prince William seems to understand the immense changes of the time. In a pretext to a book dedicated to Queen Elizabeth II he described it as "the confidence of the previous century had morphed into uncertainty and many worried – as they still do – about the challenge presented to our communities by rapid technological and social change". See link.
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  #275  
Old 08-23-2015, 07:19 AM
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As regards the building of the Coronation 'Theatre' in Westinster Abbey, I'm certain that can be created in a couple of weeks [max]. Modern scaffolding techniques are a far cry from the wooden carpentry methods used in 1952, and as other posters have noted, the television and electrical requirements are far more compact [and discreet] than they were. If the Glastonbury 'rig' can be put together as speedily as it is... so can the Abbey 'rig'.

As for the actual ceremony, I believe the 1000 year old ritual, and its central features, the recognition, anointing, oaths, investiture with the regalia and the Holy Communion will remain essentially unchanged for Charles III.
As for the 'bit part' players [the Peerage, and the politicians] they can be comfortably accomodated in Westminster Hall, and watch the proceedings on Screens from there, IF that is what has been decided.
I have no doubt the Earl Marshall, the Palace and the Civil servants have it all planned [down to the 'nth' degree] already.

As for William V all bets are off.. Who knows what this singularly 'unregal' individual might desire ? Perhaps a kickabout at Wembley Stadium...
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  #276  
Old 08-23-2015, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
. The biggest Pearls in the Crown which will undoubtedly move towards a republican form of State after the demise of the present Queen (Australia and Canada).
I'm not so sure about that. For starters, there isn't really any politically viable movement today for a Canadian republic. That might change if and when the NDP comes to power (as I suspect it is a crypto-republican party), but, again, as of today, the Canadian Conservatives are staunchly monarchist; the Liberals, although not particularly enthusiastic about the monarchy, are officially against abolishing it; and the NDP simply doesn't have an official position. Until one of the 3 major political parties embraces republicanism, I don't see it happening. And even then, there is the obstacle that, in addition to the Canadian federal parliament, all 10 Canadian provinces would have to agree with the abolition of the monarchy, which is a very high bar. Finally, a secondary, but not at all irrelevant issue, is that native peoples in many Commonwealth realms, especially First Nations in Canada (and maybe the Maoris is New Zealand?), seem to be contrary to a republic since their land claims and partial sovereignty status rest on treaties made with the Crown that would be on uncertain grounds if the monarchy were abolished.

In Australia, on the other hand, although a majority may eventually be in favor of a republic, it seems like republicans themselves cannot agree on who would replace the Queen and the Govenor General. Many republican voters actually voted against the republican constitutional amendment in the 1999 referendum because they disagreed with the proposed indirectly elected president. Politicians, on the other hand, didn't want a president elected by popular vote in a national election because they feared a French-like scenario where a partisan president with a strong popular mandate of his/her own could clash with a prime minister of another party that held a majority in the House of Representatives. In fact, a popularly elected president would substantially change the balance of power in Australian politics and the way Australia has been governed since 1901, which in turn would conflict with the "minimalist" approach taken by Australian republicans so far of bringing about a republic with minimal change to the Australian constitution. Besides, the constitutional bar for a republic is also high in Australia, where a national majority and a majority in a majority of states would be required in any referendum.
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  #277  
Old 09-04-2015, 04:15 PM
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The Coronation of Queen Elizabeth II - Zadok The Priest



From Royal Norway's Spectator article

Queen Elizabeth II Becomes Longest Reigning British Monarch: September 9, 2015
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  #278  
Old 09-06-2015, 11:18 AM
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From Warren's Collection...


"The Coronation: How they planned the most successful public relations event of the century"
Author: John Pearson
Source: Good Weekend
Published: February 1, 1986

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  #279  
Old 09-06-2015, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
September 9 marks a historical milestone for the Queen as she becomes the longest-reigning monarch in British history.

The record was previously held by her great-great-grandmother Queen Victoria, who reigned for 63 years and seven months.

Here is a look back at Queen Elizabeth II's Coronation.

There were more than 8000 guests at the Queen's Coronation on the 2 June 1953, and an estimated 3 million people lined the streets of London to catch a glimpse of her.
Read more: A look back at Queen Elizabeth II's Coronation - ITV News
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  #280  
Old 09-07-2015, 03:33 PM
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Royal Family member about television

Hello,

I wonder if somebody here can help me.

Earlier I heard a special about the British coronation ceremony of Elisabeth II. in the radio and there was one member of the Royal family who criticised television massively. I think it was the first time they wanted to show the ceremony in the TVs.
I think it was a man and he said something like, this medium will make the people stupid or something like that.
My question is: Who said it and could you please post the exact quotation of it?

Thank you and greetings from Germany!
Sorry for grammaticaly faults.
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