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  #21  
Old 04-25-2007, 02:38 PM
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  #22  
Old 04-25-2007, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Star
Hans-Rickard there is no way Carl-Philp would become Crown Prince even if Victoria does not wed and has no children.He will just be prince and heir presumptive and not heir apparent there is a difference between these two terms. An heir apparent can not be removed by the birth of others that is what Victoria is now they only to remove that right is the by the law meaning the consititution has to be changed in over for someone else to proceed over the line and be first and heir the throne as she is.Heir presumptive is a person
who can be removed by the birth of other meaning as long as there is no other person who has a stronger claim to the throne they will inherit the throne.
I know the difference between a heir apparent and a heir presumptive and you are right, Carl Philip will be styled as a prince heir presumptive in that unlucky scenario. What I ment was that he will tecnically be a crownprince
and be called as that, just like Prince Bertil was heir presumptive in 6 years but people called him crownprince even though he was a prince.
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  #23  
Old 04-26-2007, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard
I know the difference between a heir apparent and a heir presumptive and you are right, Carl Philip will be styled as a prince heir presumptive in that unlucky scenario. What I ment was that he will tecnically be a crownprince
and be called as that, just like Prince Bertil was heir presumptive in 6 years but people called him crownprince even though he was a prince.
I understand that Carl-Philp would callled crown prince but in reality that is totally inproper way when referering to someone who is heir presumptive and not heir apparent.Yes he was heir apparent a short time at his birth and that had been changed and how he is second in line to the throne. Using the proper terms helps those who do not know nothing about royalty all members of this forums knows something about royalty so we can not get confuse.
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  #24  
Old 12-18-2010, 05:03 PM
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Princess Birgitta is the 4 th in susccession

The Succession constitution, SO, is the oldest existing constitution in Sweden. It was passed by Parliament in 1810, and was issued as the current September 26 that year. The law governing the succession to the Swedish throne, that is, who gets to be king or queen reigning in the kingdom. With the adoption of succession, became the House of Bernadotte eligible to ascend the throne of Sweden.

The Swedish successin to the throne is currently as follows:
1.Crownprincess Victoria
2.Prins Carl Philip
3.Princess Madeleine
4.Princess Birgitta (and her family) *

Succession statutes to the Swedish royal dignity is inherited in the Bernadotte dynasty, previously available only to male offspring, but since 1980, although the female offspring.¨

This constitution replaced the earlier order of succession, and was introduced precisely to regulate the succession order that would apply in Sweden after the election of Jean Baptiste Bernadotte to the Swedish crown prince. It therefore understands him, when the statute which has been the succession to the throne of Sweden. With the changes in 1980, instead saying it succession based on the current king, Carl XVI Gustaf, paying attention, therefore, has cut off the possibility for all other branches of the Bernadotte dynasty to claim any inheritance to the throne, even if they come from someone who in his time was born as heir apparent. This change was made to prevent a whole new group of female descendants of King Karl XIV Johan, who were previously excluded from the throne, could claim the succession to the Swedish throne. .They did not want to deprive the king's uncle Prince Bertil his succession to the throne (not the least of the reasons it was convenient to have an adult heir who could stand in for the king while his children were still minors), a special transition rule that gave Prince Bertil of succession to the throne after King Carl XVI Gustaf relativs. .This transition rule became obsolete when Prince Bertil died 1997th.

The order of succession prescribed in addition to succession may also be provisions to beliefs and marriage for members of the Swedish royal family and a prohibition on unauthorized become ruler of a foreign state.

A member of the royal family must be of the Lutheran faith as the unchanged Augsburg Confession by the year 1593 otherwise the right to forfeit the throne. This applies both to the monarch as princes and princesses. In the case of succession marriage rules are not bound by the monarch but can marry whomever he or she wants. A prince or princess must however have the monarch's approval and even the government's approval to marry without losing their entitlement to the throne. There is no obstacle to a prince or princess to marry whoever they want - but the succession to the throne will be lost if not the monarch and the government has given its permission.

A member of the royal family may not, without the monarch and Parliament's consent to become ruler of a foreign state, whether it be through inheritance, marriage or choice. The member of the royal family that will lose the right to the crown for himself and his posterity.

The Swedish throne
Succession Clause a statute:

"§ 1. Succession Law to the Swedish throne to be male and female descendants of the Crown Prince Johan Baptist Julii, later King Karl XIV Johan's, issue in descendant, King Carl XVI Gustaf. Older siblings and older siblings 'descendants have precedence over younger siblings and younger siblings' descendants. "
(Law-act 1979:935)

* The only one of King Carl XVI Gustaf siblings who married King Gusav the VI th Adolf state, and the Swedish Government, is Princess Birgitta of marriage to Prince Johann Georg of Hohenzollern. Most likely would Princess Birgitta and her family be asked in the event of a disaster and the whole of the current Royal family wiped out.
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  #25  
Old 12-18-2010, 10:06 PM
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I was under the impression that in the 70's there was some sort of reform that narrowed the regents role to just ceremonial (opposed to his grandfather), and also limited the session to just the current descendants. An addition, the kings sisters were never in line to begin with because it was limited to just men.
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  #26  
Old 12-18-2010, 10:29 PM
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I have an interesting question to this. If Princess Madeline had children before Prince Carl, would her or her children be put ahead of him in succession?
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  #27  
Old 12-18-2010, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
I have an interesting question to this. If Princess Madeline had children before Prince Carl, would her or her children be put ahead of him in succession?
No. Carl- Phillip's position will remain. He was the second born and Madeline was the third. Madeline's children will come after her. Madeline having children before her brother will not elevate her place in line. It will always be Victoria, Carl-Philip then Madeline.
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  #28  
Old 12-19-2010, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Karisma View Post
The Succession constitution, SO, is the oldest existing constitution in Sweden. It was passed by Parliament in 1810, and was issued as the current September 26 that year. The law governing the succession to the Swedish throne, that is, who gets to be king or queen reigning in the kingdom. With the adoption of succession, became the House of Bernadotte eligible to ascend the throne of Sweden.

The Swedish successin to the throne is currently as follows:
1.Crownprincess Victoria
2.Prins Carl Philip
3.Princess Madeleine
4.Princess Birgitta (and her family) *
You have it wrong. When the successionorder was changed in the 70ths it was stipulated that the only ones that could inherit the throne had to be descendand from Carl XVI Gustav. Birgitta is NOT in the successionorder.

In Sweden the only ones that are seen as royals are in fact the family of Carl XVI Gustav. His sisters and uncle with families arent seen as the extended royal family, "just" normal citizens
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  #29  
Old 12-19-2010, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilnana View Post
I was under the impression that in the 70's there was some sort of reform that narrowed the regents role to just ceremonial (opposed to his grandfather), and also limited the session to just the current descendants. An addition, the kings sisters were never in line to begin with because it was limited to just men.
Yes this was when the new Costitution came in force in 1974. The succession law was changed later and came in force on 01.01.1980.
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  #30  
Old 12-19-2010, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karisma View Post

* The only one of King Carl XVI Gustaf siblings who married King Gusav the VI th Adolf state, and the Swedish Government, is Princess Birgitta of marriage to Prince Johann Georg of Hohenzollern. Most likely would Princess Birgitta and her family be asked in the event of a disaster and the whole of the current Royal family wiped out.
I didnt see what you wrote in the end. Most likely if such an event happened then Sweden would abolish the monarchy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
I have an interesting question to this. If Princess Madeline had children before Prince Carl, would her or her children be put ahead of him in succession?
No, but if neither Carl-Philip or Victoria gets legitimate heirs then Madeleines children become heirs after Victoria, Carl-Philip and Madeleine are gone.
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  #31  
Old 12-19-2010, 03:37 PM
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Princess Birgitta is HRH

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattep74 View Post
You have it wrong. When the successionorder was changed in the 70ths it was stipulated that the only ones that could inherit the throne had to be descendand from Carl XVI Gustav. Birgitta is NOT in the successionorder.

In Sweden the only ones that are seen as royals are in fact the family of Carl XVI Gustav. His sisters and uncle with families arent seen as the extended royal family, "just" normal citizens
In addition to the members of the Royal Family, the Swedish Royal Court also includes Princess Lilian, and Princess Birgitta, married to Prince Johann Georg of Hohenzollern. Most likely would Princess Birgitta and her family be asked in the event of a disaster and the whole of the current Royal family wiped out.

Princess Birgitta is the only one of the king's sisters who married and had the old king, Gusav VI Adolf, and the government's full consent. Princess Birgitta is also the only one of the king's sisters, who have retained the title "Her Royal Highness" (HRH). Like the examples Princess Martha-Louise of Norway got the other sisters keep the title princess, but not included in the royal house as "royal highness". You can actually read the court's website on the composition of the royal house. http://www.royalcourt.se/royalcourt/royalfamily.4.396160511584257f21800060.html
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  #32  
Old 12-19-2010, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Karisma View Post
In addition to the members of the Royal Family, the Swedish Royal Court also includes Princess Lilian, and Princess Birgitta, married to Prince Johann Georg of Hohenzollern. Most likely would Princess Birgitta and her family be asked in the event of a disaster and the whole of the current Royal family wiped out.

Princess Birgitta is the only one of the king's sisters who married and had the old king, Gusav VI Adolf, and the government's full consent. Princess Birgitta is also the only one of the king's sisters, who have retained the title "Her Royal Highness" (HRH). Like the examples Princess Martha-Louise of Norway got the other sisters keep the title princess, but not included in the royal house as "royal highness". You can actually read the court's website on the composition of the royal house. http://www.royalcourt.se/royalcourt/royalfamily.4.396160511584257f21800060.html
If the family is wiped out then we get a republic.

The kings sisters werent in the succession order BEFORE 1973 and they arent now either.
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  #33  
Old 12-19-2010, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mattep74 View Post
If the family is wiped out then we get a republic.

The kings sisters werent in the succession order BEFORE 1973 and they arent now either.
It is of course a hypothetical question, and no one wants to even imagine such a terrible scenario that the entire royal family was wiped out! But I do not think You can assume that the parliament in two consecutive elections would vote for a constitutional amendment which would mean that Sweden became a republic in a scenario where our current Royal Family was snatched away. It would then mean that the country first, would be headed by the Speaker of the parlament as "Riksföreståndare" for a long time. None of us can know for sure. I , myself,think we would continue to Monarchy! Of course the family of HRH Princess Birgitta then will be of interest. Surely HRH Princess Birgitta and her family then become interesting as princess Birgitta followed the laws that existed when she married.
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  #34  
Old 12-19-2010, 09:32 PM
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The Act of Succession - Riksdagen
Act 1: the succession is restricted to the descendants of Carl XVI Gustaf but I don't see any mention of Prince Bertil who was then added to the sucession?

IF the entire Royal family was wiped out, might they not choose Princess Margrethe (spelling?) before Princess Birgitta on the basis of primongeniture? None of the King's sisters were ever in the line of succession to begin with and it is now acceptable to marry commoners.

On a related note if the entire Royal family got wiped out except for one of Victoria's (hypothetical) children, who would be regent?
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  #35  
Old 12-19-2010, 11:40 PM
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I really think that- in this day and age- if any of the current European royal families happen to "die out" naturally, the country would simply revert to a republic.
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  #36  
Old 12-20-2010, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Karisma View Post
It is of course a hypothetical question, and no one wants to even imagine such a terrible scenario that the entire royal family was wiped out! But I do not think You can assume that the parliament in two consecutive elections would vote for a constitutional amendment which would mean that Sweden became a republic in a scenario where our current Royal Family was snatched away. It would then mean that the country first, would be headed by the Speaker of the parlament as "Riksföreståndare" for a long time. None of us can know for sure. I , myself,think we would continue to Monarchy! Of course the family of HRH Princess Birgitta then will be of interest. Surely HRH Princess Birgitta and her family then become interesting as princess Birgitta followed the laws that existed when she married.
I rather have a republic than have the country represented by Birgitta, i will not say why because i think its against the rules of conduct here.
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  #37  
Old 12-20-2010, 07:18 PM
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Hypothetical

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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
The Act of Succession - Riksdagen
Act 1: the succession is restricted to the descendants of Carl XVI Gustaf but I don't see any mention of Prince Bertil who was then added to the sucession?

IF the entire Royal family was wiped out, might they not choose Princess Margrethe (spelling?) before Princess Birgitta on the basis of primongeniture? None of the King's sisters were ever in the line of succession to begin with and it is now acceptable to marry commoners.

On a related note if the entire Royal family got wiped out except for one of Victoria's (hypothetical) children, who would be regent?
We are moving very hypothetical (not so nice) thoughts, but on the whole family being wiped out is Bridget or her children the only ones included in the royal house. Bridget is the only one of the princesses from Haga has been allowed to retain the title HRH because she married a prince, which was important for the old king, Gustav VI. We must remember that many of the old king's siblings were relieved of their titles when they married without royal family's permission. It is certainly so now that any child of CP Victoria will be first in line of succession. Prince Bertil came into the picture for the current king's father, Prince Gustav Adolf was killed in a plane crash. It was for that reason he refused to marry Lillian, because the Swedish royal family suddenly had no successor. Prince Carl Gustaf was a child and grandfather, King Gustav VI Adolf was already coming up in age. Would the king died before the little prince had time to reach 25 years so would Monarchy in Sweden have been wiped out "with one stroke of the pen" - that the then Prime Minister Palme said.
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  #38  
Old 12-20-2010, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mattep74 View Post
I rather have a republic than have the country represented by Birgitta, i will not say why because i think its against the rules of conduct here.


You don´t have to. I do understand and I don´t have any other opinion. Everything is just hypotetic.

HRH Princess Birgitta
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  #39  
Old 12-20-2010, 08:41 PM
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You don´t have to. I do understand and I don´t have any other opinion. Everything is just hypotetic.

HRH Princess Birgitta
I'm sorry, but-
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  #40  
Old 12-21-2010, 02:44 AM
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...
On a related note if the entire Royal family got wiped out except for one of Victoria's (hypothetical) children, who would be regent?
Either the speaker of the Riksdag (IIRC the only one outside the royal line of sucession that may act as Swedish head of state) or the Riksdag have to appoint someone else.
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