Prince William and Kate Middleton current events 1: October-November 2007

[Russophile]

Actually, my son is quite old-fashioned in the dating department. But then again, at 19, and in the military, he tends to be more mature than those his age about this sort of thing. It's a tough call as to "this generation."

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

You are both right - there is no commitment yet But on the other hand - how long is Kate now with Wills? 4 years? Shouldn't she know better by now?

Should Kate know better about the press? William? Why do you believe that Kate should know better than she does?

Dealing with the power of the press has confounded a lot more saavy minds than Kate and a fear of commitment is not uncommon in a twenty something male. If Kate is hanging on to a noncommital male, its probably the same reason a lot of other girls her age are doing the same thing with their commitment-phobe boyfriends.

Now having said that, I don't think Kate has so much a lack of know-how but rather a lack of will. I think she and William are still uncommitted to each other and that has influence on how much she wants to put herself out for William or the press.

[GovGen]

But it appears that the difference between Kate and most other girls in the same situation, Kate has nothing to fall back on and is just .... waiting!
No viable job/career. Seemingly no personal ambitions, plans (otherwise the British press would have reported on this by now), so she seems to have gone to uni for the Mrs. degree only.
Is that going to be a good or bad thing for the future of the monarchy, only time will tell if William actually marries her!

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by GovGen

But it appears that the difference between Kate and most other girls in the same situation, Kate has nothing to fall back on and is just .... waiting!

Is Kate then so different from other girls in the same situation then? I've seen girls leave their jobs, move across country or even to another country to be with a guy and then it doesn't work out. And they're left without a job, no income, no home and they've been out of the job market for awhile and its hard to get back in.

But if Kate's parents wealth are as wealthy as we are left to believe, Kate can fall back on her parent's support. Having inherited wealth is actually quite a comfortable cushion to fall back on. I wouldn't call it having nothing to fall back on.

so she seems to have gone to uni for the Mrs. degree only.

well that is what the job of the wife of the heir to the throne is...Whoever marries William will be somewhat of a professional wife, like the First Lady or a wife of a high ranking government official. She can have her own interests but they will be pretty much subservient to the demands of the monarchy.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Should Kate know better about the press?

Let's keep it simple. If you don't want the paps, avoid them by leading your life accordingly. Don't do projects, don't lead a celebrity lifestyle, don't go to VIP clubs, split from your royal boyfriend, if needs be. If you find this too restrictive etc you have to live with the consequences, like being followed or photographed all the time. It's not my rule but this is the way it works in Britain and Ms Middleton won't change that. It's up to Kate to take her choice but she can't have both. Her constant complaining is not only annoying but will make things rather worse than better with time passing.

[Duchess]

correct me if i'm wrong because i'm no expert on this but isn't it william complaining, not catherine? except for the very rare occasion she's said nothing that i can recall.

imo, i can't say that she's really living a "celebrity" lifestyle. yes she goes to clubs but don't millions of twenty-somethings all over the world do the same? she should feel free to take part in any project she wants. from what we know she's not making any monetary gain from being seen in the press so she should, technically, feel free to complain as much as she wants but she doesn't. she's not financially supported by the tax payer or the RF...as we've said before she's still a private citizen so she if she did complain publicly about her situation it would certainly be her right to do so. yes she dates the heir to throne and i think she has absolutely no illusions about what she will put up with on a day to day basis so she deals with it. if she did things the way you suggest then she'd also have to give up her job and then people would again (or still depending on how you look at it) accuse her being unemployed.

[Duke of Marmalade]

[quote=Duchess;684936]

correct me if i'm wrong because i'm no expert on this but isn't it william complaining, not catherine? except for the very rare occasion she's said nothing that i can recall.

Clarence House will complain on Williams' behalf and some lawyers or advisers on Kates' behalf.

imo, i can't say that she's really living a "celebrity" lifestyle. yes she goes to clubs but don't millions of twenty-somethings all over the world do the same? she should feel free to take part in any project she wants.

I'd say she does. No regular job, vacation whenever it suits, clubbing at least twice a week etc. Since dating the 2nd in the line to the british throne she cannot longer be counted as one of those millions of twenty-somethings all over the world who can go clubbing without being recognized. Of course she is free to do whatever she wants but there are consequences that are beyond her control.

from what we know she's not making any monetary gain from being seen in the press so she should, technically, feel free to complain as much as she wants but she doesn't. she's not financially supported by the tax payer or the RF...as we've said before she's still a private citizen so she if she did complain publicly about her situation it would certainly be her right to do so.

Abolutely true but complaining won't change a thing. If you don't want coverage you can't ask the media to change their behaviour, they won't do. The only thing you can do is the other way around, change your behaviour.

if she did things the way you suggest then she'd also have to give up her job and then people would again (or still depending on how you look at it) accuse her being unemployed.

Why would she have to give up her job (does she have one by the way)?There are examples of women who dated crown princess and did a regular and more or less demanging job (Maxima, Mary etc) pre engagement. Kate could do the same if only she wanted and to be honest that's the way it should be. She's 25 years old - a bit early just to live for the moment, at least in my opinion.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Let's keep it simple. If you don't want the paps, avoid them by leading your life accordingly. Don't do projects, don't lead a celebrity lifestyle, don't go to VIP clubs, split from your royal boyfriend, if needs be. If you find this too restrictive etc you have to live with the consequences, like being followed or photographed all the time. It's not my rule but this is the way it works in Britain and Ms Middleton won't change that. It's up to Kate to take her choice but she can't have both. Her constant complaining is not only annoying but will make things rather worse than better with time passing.

So if a Rupert Murdoch decrees that his paps should chase people down the street in high speed chases and stalk them out of their houses, it seems your concern is not the high speed chase nor the stalking but what annoys you the most is that Kate is complaining about the high speed chase and the stalking.

I wonder at your choice of what to be annoyed by in this situation. The first is dangerous and I think that you're being rather generous, lenient and forgiving of the tabloid press by just saying 'that's the way it works in Britain', Kate does not get that sort of leniency, I'm not saying she should but why should the behavior of the paps and tabloids be excused to such an extent when Kate is not?

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Duchess

if i understood your earlier post correctly, she should give up all occasions that would take her out in public and having a job would be one of those occasions. she needs to leave her house and be with members of the public for a certain amount of time each week. at this point, catherine is a huge topic of interest for a certain part of the population, whether you like her or not or find her newsworthy or not. having said that, even if the relationship with william did end she'd still be in the press.

I was talking about those occasions that attract the photographers such as clubs etc where she exposes herself to the media more or less sober, together with all the other semi-celebrities such as footballers wives or girlband members who also have their picture taken at 3am in the morning.

In case she had a regular job of course there would be a few paps taking their picture but that's it. I mean Maxima survived it - it's all about willingly creating attention and going to work every morning is not the same category as going to a club and do some binge drinking.

[Duchess]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Clarence House will complain on Williams' behalf and some lawyers or advisers on Kates' behalf.

agree, catherine has complained in the past but it's been rare. she does indeed have job with jigsaw. if her employer sees fit to give her extraordinary amounts of time off then i'd say she has a dream job or pretty close to it. whether she's dating the garbage man or the heir presumptive to the throne she's still a twenty something and private citizen. she's not being supported by the taxpayer or the prince so she should be able to come and go freely. i think she understands perfectly well the consequences of being in a realtionship with william and has handled things extremely well. as for comparing her to mary or maxima, that's rather unfair as the level of media interest is apples and oranges. if i understood your earlier post correctly, you'd have give up all occasions that give the paps an opportunity to follow her so giving up her job would be a requirement in order to follow your criteria.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by ysbel

So if a Rupert Murdoch decrees that his paps should chase people down the street in high speed chases and stalk them out of their houses...

Sorry if my opinion came across as if I agreed on high speed chasing etc. I was talking about the usual situations when paps are around the flat in the morning or at night at the club. I condemn everything that puts people in danger and that's a step too far but everything else - the guys with their cameras taking their picture if you like it or not - that's normal and won't go away. I don't know about the high speed chasing but I know that Kate's lawyers complained about paps outside her flat or blamed the media that she had to pull out of her sisterhood project - and in these cases, it's pathetic.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Sorry if my opinion came across as if I agreed on high speed chasing etc. I was talking about the usual situations when paps are around the flat in the morning or at night at the club. I condemn everything that puts people in danger and that's a step too far but everything else - the guys with their cameras taking their picture if you like it or not - that's normal and won't go away. I don't know about the high speed chasing but I know that Kate's lawyers complained about paps outside her flat or blamed the media that she had to pull out of her sisterhood project - and in these cases, it's pathetic.

OK thanks for explaining. My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that Wills and Kate were not complaining about the paps outside the Boujis club but they were complaining at the high speed chase that ensued afterwards. Even Harry who does not have a cordial relationship with the press has not complained when they've taken embarassing pictures of him drunk and stumbling out of clubs.

Kate's departure from the Sisterhood was, I thought, due to the revelation that the Sisterhood was involved in some questionable promotion schemes such as turning up at events wearing just bodypaint. That would be enough to scare me off regardless of whether I was dating the heir to the throne.

I don't know a lot about Maxima's engagement but I know she worked in New York for a time and in New York, people tend to mind their own business and not be too impressed with celebrities so I think the papparazzi are not as invasive here. If they're around, they tend to take pictures with long range lenses so they don't get up close. So if Maxima was working in New York, it may be that her more apparent deft handling of the press may be a simple reflection of the less invasive nature of the paps here. Although I must admit, since she has become the Princess of Orange, it appears that she handles the press very well indeed.

[Duke of Marmalade]

[quote=ysbel;684976]

OK thanks for explaining. My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that Wills and Kate were not complaining about the paps outside the Boujis club but they were complaining at the high speed chase that ensued afterwards. Even Harry who does not have a cordial relationship with the press has not complained when they've taken embarassing pictures of him drunk and stumbling out of clubs.

You are welcome
I am not sure about official complaints but there certainly were several situations with discord eg when Harry was dead drunk and stumbled in front of the taxi and the paps dared to take their pictures

Kate's departure from the Sisterhood was, I thought, due to the revelation that the Sisterhood was involved in some questionable promotion schemes such as turning up at events wearing just bodypaint. That would be enough to scare me off regardless of whether I was dating the heir to the throne.

The whole thing was odd. When I saw this rowing photoshoot I just thought oh dear what is she doing? Was not a clever move, in my opinion. Coverage like that will only harm her except if she indeed wants to become a celebrity when they split up for good.

I don't know a lot about Maxima's engagement but I know she worked in New York for a time and in New York, people tend to mind their own business and not be too impressed with celebrities so I think the papparazzi are not as invasive here. If they're around, they tend to take pictures with long range lenses so they don't get up close. So if Maxima was working in New York, it may be that her more apparent deft handling of the press may be a simple reflection of the less invasive nature of the paps here. Although I must admit, since she has become the Princess of Orange, it appears that she handles the press very well indeed.

Maxima moved to Brussels and worked there at Deutsche Bank, very close to the Netherlands and dutch photographers. I agree Maxima is one of the best examples here, she behaved in a very mature and professional way back then and still does. Maxima being Maxima it never shows too much on her face when she is annoyed

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Sorry if my opinion came across as if I agreed on high speed chasing etc.

Her lawyers also complained that the paparazzi were following her everywhere in her car. I understand what you are saying, Duke, but all the same, I don't think anyone has to lie down and accept things just because "it's the way it is". If people did that all the time, nothing would change. Maybe it's good that Kate is willing to make a shout about these things. Maybe it shows that she can stand up for herself instead of just laying down and saying like a wus, "oh it's the way it is.... just let them harrass me, abuse me...."

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

You are welcome
I am not sure about official complaints but there certainly were several situations with discord eg when Harry was dead drunk and stumbled in front of the taxi and the paps dared to take their pictures

Yeah I saw the pictures where the paps got in his face and Harry yelled at them and pushed them away. That is iffy. I know Harry shouldn't have been drunk and he needs to hold his temper better but if these paps are getting right in his face when he's drunk then I can understand his reaction, even though I don't like it. The problems that the Windsors have had with the press is when they get into their physical space.

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

The whole thing was odd. When I saw this rowing photoshoot I just thought oh dear what is she doing? Was not a clever move, in my opinion. Coverage like that will only harm her except if she indeed wants to become a celebrity when they split up for good.

As far as her relationship with the press I think if Kate had stayed broken up with William for good, the Sisterhood project would have been long forgotten. It was not that big of a celebrity event, Kate was the only celebrity there. At the time, I thought it was good that she was getting out on her own and doing something productive without William but after seeing the pictures of the Sisterhood in bodypaint I thought she could have chosen a better outlet.

I think rather than her relationship to the press, Kate and William are being a little unwise with their relationship to each other. This public breaking off and getting together again tends to make people think that they don't know what they want and then people stop taking them seriously. I for one am going to be seriously annoyed if William treats us to any more breakups and reunions with Kate.

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Maxima moved to Brussels and worked there at Deutsche Bank, very close to the Netherlands and dutch photographers. I agree Maxima is one of the best examples here, she behaved in a very mature and professional way back then and still does. Maxima being Maxima it never shows too much on her face when she is annoyed

Well that surprises me because I always thought Maxima was natural and spontaneous. I imagined that if she were annoyed, she would show it naturally. Do you think that Maxima has gotten the same scrutiny that Kate does?

[biboquinhas]

Maybe if she speaks, maybe if both of them assume their relationship and speak to the press, make a sort of agreement. They don't speak, everything around them is a mistery

[Duke of Marmalade]

[quote=ysbel;685003]

I think rather than her relationship to the press, Kate and William are being a little unwise with their relationship to each other. This public breaking off and getting together again tends to make people think that they don't know what they want and then people stop taking them seriously. I for one am going to be seriously annoyed if William treats us to any more breakups and reunions with Kate.

This is certainly true. On the other hand we only assume they are a couple because nothing has been confirmed. Maybe they are just best pals.

Well that surprises me because I always thought Maxima was natural and spontaneous. I imagined that if she were annoyed, she would show it naturally. Do you think that Maxima has gotten the same scrutiny that Kate does?

Maxima is a happy soul whilst Kate can come across abit grumpy
I don't know if the Dutch press is as agressive as the british but I recall that Maxima needed abit protection from Deutsche Bank to get rid of the paps. However, her big advantage was that she probably already knew WA would pop the question at some point - not sure Kate can take that for granted.

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Yeah I saw the pictures where the paps got in his face and Harry yelled at them and pushed them away. That is iffy. I know Harry shouldn't have been drunk and he needs to hold his temper better but if these paps are getting right in his face when he's drunk then I can understand his reaction, even though I don't like it. The problems that the Windsors have had with the press is when they get into their physical space.

Yep. The nightclub-based paparazzi do this everytime, every night, with every big name celebrity. They get up as close as they can with their obnoxious lights and lens. That's why you see so much of the time the celebs are shielding their eyes and face. Yet I realize too, as Duke has been saying, that this behavior is so typical, it shouldn't be any surprise to the people who are its target. Celebs have to take some responsibility to avoid the situations. The "back door" (or alley exit) trick doesn't always work, however, because the paps will often wait there too. They divide up the pack, some at the front exit, some at the back door. It would seem the only foolproof solution for the celebs who don't like it is to stay away from those clubs. But so many of them, like Kate and the princes, don't wish to forsake these clubs. Keeping their club dates means more to them than avoiding the paps, obviously. I guess the bodyguards they have make it somewhat bearable.... but then they complain because the paps follow them home, and I can understand that. The nightclub pictures are to be tolerated, but I completely sympathize with their worrying about the car chases and the home-stalking. Paps outside your door everyday has to suck. Just ask Kate Moss.

[Duke of Marmalade]

If it always was so easy. All these semi celebs or even celebs go there BECAUSE of the paps, not despite. These pics sell and especially for footballers wives, semi successful singers, the z-list big brother sourvivers or even Kate Moss the motto must be rather bad coverage than no coverage. Many WANT to be photographed and only pretend to be annoyed because it suggests them and the public that they are important (in most cases they are not, but the sad truth is too hard to bear). Worst example is Britney in America. Nobody actually goes for the clubbing but only to be seen. It's simply unlucky if the young royals and Kate mix with this kind of society or adapt these habits

[Duchess]

i think it's unfair to say that they only go to these clubs solely for the purpose of being photographed. suppose they did start going to non descript/unknown places - eventually they'd become descript and known by virtue of the fact that they're now patrons there. it's a no win situation. the paps provoke them by getting in their faces and we all know that provocation of this sort, mixed with alcohol is always bad. if william or harry or catherine or anyone showed their anger when this stuff starts i wouldn't blame them. certainly makes you appreciate the fact that we can go anywhere and the rest of the world couldn't care less.