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  #121  
Old 12-15-2008, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
Huh? My claim that your opinions are not facts? You can't be serious there.
Yes I am serious
Quote:
The burden of providing evidences lies on the accuser.
.... so it's still guesswork.
You are the one who seems to be doing the accusing, do you have any evidence that it is guesswork, which you state categorically? After all, as you said - I am not questioning your right to have an opinion, and certainly yours is held by a vast number of military type and civilians alike - but of course you are.
Quote:
You said I assumed you implied you had access to either the test results or at the very least some sort of hardcore evidence to work out, indeed, whether Harry had con his way in or not, with such ease. Which is why I asked you to please share. The 'I'm connected to the military, I know' is just not enough unless it's substantiated.
Then I suggest that you read again what has been written, at no point have I ever said "I'm connected to the military, I know", I did say "It is quite easy to work out (even without insider knowledge), for anyone connected to the military" and that includes others on here that hold the same view who for some reason you choose to ignore. It is a fairly easy assumption to make that with a 50% acceptance rate, there will have been at least a 50% failure rate and of those 10% could have had a bad day, upset the RSM etc. But if one of the 50% who failed to make the grade were as able or slightly better than Harry, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that no career officer would put his career on the line over a mark or ten.
Quote:
I made the wild guess that some people would find that insulting or at least patronising and that is was the point you were trying to make.
Yes, another wild guess!
I would suggest that if you want to continue this exchange, it is taken to the military section.
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  #122  
Old 12-15-2008, 04:59 PM
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No one from the military has commented that that Harry did not get his position through anything other than his own merit, nor are they likely to. Unless there is someone here who has been directly involved in the decision making process, this whole conversation is just speculation from both sides.
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  #123  
Old 12-15-2008, 05:40 PM
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I believe we are not speaking the same language, so I will start with some definitions:From the Cambridge Dictionaries Online:
Quote:
FACT :something which is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information
Quote:
OPINION:
1 [C] a thought or belief about something or someone:
2 [u] the thoughts or beliefs that a group of people have:
Now that this is settled...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Yes I am serious
Ok. My evidence for stating that your opinion are not facts is that, unless that your are a divine being gifted with omniscience (in which case, what is the colour of my socks?), you have to provide evidences for your beliefs to be upheld as hard facts, like the rest of us mortals
Quote:
You are the one who seems to be doing the accusing, do you have any evidence that it is guesswork, which you state categorically?
Yes, my evidence is that you haven't provided any evidence.
Quote:
After all, as you said - I am not questioning your right to have an opinion, and certainly yours is held by a vast number of military type and civilians alike - but of course you are.
No I am not. I am questioning your claim that your opinions are fact, not your right to have an opinion. Please read carefully our exchange.
Quote:
, I did say "It is quite easy to work out (even without insider knowledge), for anyone connected to the military" and that includes others on here that hold the same view who for some reason you choose to ignore.
Ludicrous claim. I have acknowledged acknowledged that your opinion is shared by many, that was never the issue. What about you ignoring my repeated plea for you to provide evidence to support your claim?
Quote:
It is a fairly easy assumption to make that with a 50% acceptance rate, there will have been at least a 50% failure rate and of those 10% could have had a bad day, upset the RSM etc. But if one of the 50% who failed to make the grade were as able or slightly better than Harry, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that no career officer would put his career on the line over a mark or ten.
Very sensible and plausible theory. The operative words there are: 'assumption' and 'if'. I.e, you are doing guesswork and you have no proof. I do respect your opinion and I will agree to disagree with it. But you have to accept the difference between fact and opinion (the definitions are on top of this post).
Quote:
Yes, another wild guess!
My inclusion of 'wild guess' was an attempt at sarcasm, which was lost on you, I see.
Quote:
I would suggest that if you want to continue this exchange, it is taken to the military section.
Thank you, I am done.
Have a very nice evening.
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  #124  
Old 12-15-2008, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
I believe we are not speaking the same language,
That is abundantly clear.
Quote:
FACT :something which is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information
And as I am sure you are aware, I do not have to submit for your 'examination' any evidence on how I came by my opinion!
Quote:
Ok. My evidence for stating that your opinion are not facts is that, you have to provide evidences for your beliefs to be upheld as hard facts, like the rest of us mortals
See above and it would appear you have NO evidence at all then, just your opinion, based on a misunderstood or misread sentence!
Quote:
No I am not. I am questioning your claim that your opinions are fact,
Again where does it state that my opinions are fact, other than your post?
Quote:
Please read carefully our exchange.
I would suggest you do the same and try to understand what has actually been written, not make a 'wild guess'
Quote:
Ludicrous claim. I have acknowledged acknowledged that your opinion is shared by many, that was never the issue. What about you ignoring my repeated plea for you to provide evidence to support your claim?
Again, read the thread and note how many other 'military types' you have engaged with on this matter, zero I believe. Neither you nor I have to post personal information such as my information came from my ?????
Quote:
My inclusion of 'wild guess' was an attempt at sarcasm, which was lost on you, I see.
They do say Sarcasm, or attempt thereof, is the lowest form of wit, .
Quote:
Sarcasm is proverbially said to be the lowest form of wit. It is often associated with the use of irony. Hostile, critical comments may be expressed in an ironic way such as saying "don't work too hard" to a lazy worker. The use of irony introduces an element of humour which may make the criticism seem more polite and less aggressive but understanding the subtlety of this usage requires second-order interpretation of the speaker's intentions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
  #125  
Old 12-15-2008, 06:44 PM
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I see subtlety is not working. Let's move on please.
  #126  
Old 12-16-2008, 08:09 PM
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When will Prince Henry become a Captain you think 2009 , 2010? just curious.
  #127  
Old 12-16-2008, 11:00 PM
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In the USA it would take 3-4 years generally speaking. Depends. I believe it's similiar in the armed forces of the UK.
  #128  
Old 12-17-2008, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBGGfvB View Post
In the USA it would take 3-4 years generally speaking. Depends. I believe it's similiar in the armed forces of the UK.
In the British Army normally after 3 years of service but sometimes a little longer.
  #129  
Old 01-10-2009, 06:53 PM
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Oh boy here we go.....
Harry in 'Paki' video storm as MoD and Clarence House are locked in talks to defuse row | Mail Online
  #130  
Old 01-10-2009, 07:24 PM
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The newspaper said Harry had called the soldier "our little Paki friend".
The trainee officer - identified as "Ahmed" - was unaware of the racist comment as officer cadets made the recording, it added.


Harry sorry over using racist term - Yahoo! News UK
  #131  
Old 01-10-2009, 07:35 PM
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I would ask what was he thinking but itís pretty obvious he wasnít.

Although if the video was made while he was at Sandhurst, 3 years ago, I wonder why is it only coming out now?
  #132  
Old 01-10-2009, 07:39 PM
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Hmm, I think I'm gonna sleep on this one and see if any further information comes out about it.
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  #133  
Old 01-10-2009, 08:05 PM
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Oh what a sight this will be to see played out in the press. In fairness Harry was wrong but it was three years ago, what was he then, 21/22 years old? I think he has matured alot since then. That being said wouldn't you just try to avoid using such language, especially on a VIDEO? I mean even if he does have some desire to use this language you would think he would have the sense not to do it on a video which could emerge years later as hard evidence.

Wonder how long it will take for the press office from Clarence House to have him fighting the Taliban singley handedly or finding a cure for cancer in some hastily arranged "public engagements"
  #134  
Old 01-10-2009, 08:06 PM
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Normally, I'd be pretty upset about this but it was 3 years ago and IMO Harry seems to have matured since then and maybe the video wasn't supposed to be shown in public maybe that's why he was using that language, didn't the statement say it was just a nickname. I doubt CH is going to act out the way they did with William last year I mean like I said it was 3 years ago even I've changed.
  #135  
Old 01-10-2009, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
didn't the statement say it was just a nickname
To be honest I’ve never heard as a nickname, it was always used as an insult but perhaps times have changed and now its used as a nickname.

Some more of the tape:Watch Prince Harry's racist outbursts on video | News | News Of The World
  #136  
Old 01-10-2009, 08:18 PM
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The more I read about the video the more I'm thinking Harry was just goofing off, being young and not thinking, I've done it before where I say things and I don't think, and to be honest with you it doesn't seem to me like the tape was supposed to be shown to the public in the first place. I don't see why they need to look into this I HIGHLY doubt Harry was trying to offend anyone, I doubt they'll find anything anyways. And if does say anywhere that he knew that they were going to be released to the public please let me know.
  #137  
Old 01-10-2009, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
The more I read about the video the more I'm thinking Harry was just goofing off, being young and not thinking, .
I totally agree. I think the things he was saying, while not always the best thing for a Prince to be saying on video, is nothing different from the types of things all of his comrades say. I don't think he is purposely trying to be offensive. Like the Paki term, when he said it it came off kind of affectionate and not hateful. I dunno, not the smartest thing for Harry to do considering his history, and I'm sure this will draw a lot of negative attention to him, but I don't personally see much wrong with it.

Question? Did this JUST break? And is it headline news in the UK? Just curious as to how the media is handling it.
  #138  
Old 01-10-2009, 09:05 PM
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Just wanted to add seems like the video wasn't meant to be seen by the public

Quote:
The video— obtained by the News of the World—
Quote:
And the Ministry of Defence said last night: “This sort of language is not acceptable in a modern army.”
Quote:
Asked about the Prince's remarks, an MoD spokesman said: 'Neither the Army nor the Armed Forces tolerates inappropriate behaviour in any shape or form.
'The Army takes all allegations of inappropriate behaviour very seriously and all substantive allegations are investigated.

'We are not aware of any complaint having been made by the individual. Bullying and racism are not endemic in the Armed Forces.'
but obviously Harry didn't mean it in an offensive way if you watch the video you can tell he isn't serious.
Quote:
Prince Harry used the term without any malice and as a nickname about a highly popular member of his platoon. “There is no question that Prince Harry was in any way seeking to insult his friend.
  #139  
Old 01-10-2009, 09:14 PM
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Thank you for the video.
Harry is hilarious .

Even funnier is NOTW 'outrage' at an army boy using slang and rude terms (of course, soldiers conversation usually sound straight off an Evelyn Waugh novel).
I won't even get into the pure comedy that is NOTW (the Sun's sister paper) and the Daily Mail, both the most bigoted, xenophobic and fascist publications in England calling anyone a racist.

Now of course the PC freaks will be branding him a White Supremacist, but I think the Black and Asian soldiers and Gurkas who have served with him and spoke highly of him won't be too ruffled. I hope that's only what matters to him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy1716 View Post
In fairness Harry was wrong but it was three years ago, what was he then, 21/22 years old? I think he has matured alot since then.
I don't think that has to anything to do with maturity and I'm sure he would say that even today, considering it was obviously not said out of racial hatred or bigotry, but as part of a army banter.
Was is rude? Yes. Just as rude as a fellow soldier asking him about the colour of his pubes. By army standards, I would say that tape is extra tame.
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  #140  
Old 01-10-2009, 09:36 PM
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I don't think it was rude considering it seems like they all knew each other was joking with their remarks, to me if a particular soldier had complained then I'd understand.
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