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  #141  
Old 03-26-2007, 08:11 PM
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I see things are getting a little heated. I think the discussion will go a lot more smoothly if we keep the discussion focused on Harry and not our personal opinions about each other.

Don't get offended if someone asks you for evidence or explanation for your opinion. If you have an opinion, you will have had to have based it on something you saw or heard so take the initiative and share it with the group rather than wait for them to ask. You will get differences of opinion but that's what makes a discussion board.

Just expressing an opinion like "Harry is a lush," "No, he's not" is not very interesting or enlightening and discussions like that generally degenerate to name-calling after awhile.

Thanks.
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  #142  
Old 03-26-2007, 08:57 PM
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Yes, Ysbel. This is the point. It is just disapointing to see a discussion board filled of personal accusations. If someone saids that he/she doesn't like Prince Harry's attitude - my own case- it's insulted as a reactionnary that doesn't goes along with present times (it seems that going along present times is approving all that is scandalous and bad only some years ago )...and if someone saids that all that Prince Harry's does is perfect, the others will jump over this person to call them names...This is absurd.

Why trying to analyze things and ideas seems to be so hard nowadays?

Lets discuss Harry's behaviour, not ours. This is not a football match, but a Royal discussion board.

My opinion in the matter is slightly different than others above, for I dislike Harry's behaviour, but I see that young Royals seems to have some troubles in modern days and doesn't understand they must act as models of the society. So, Monarchy itself seems to be questioned nowadays by the Royals themselves. THIS is the main point in all the matter. They wouldn't act as Royals. They wants to be as common people...But of course without lossing a single privilege of their present situation, nor the money.

Prince Harry growed up as a privileged little child, he has not money problems and knows he wouldn't have many difficulties in his every day life. He must be happy with all this, but no...He seems to search the happiness he doesn't has (a happy person doesn't act like he is acting) in liquor and bad behaviour. Violence is in him. Nowadays world is bad for him too. But why? This is the main question.

Prince Harry, as other young Royals in the world could have been a different model for so many young people that seems to be lost and desperate, who doesn't see any future in the years to come...However, they refuses this goal and rather likes to live the same life that other young people without any hopes lives...And then , just like them, they past their time idiotizing themselves with drugs, alcool and rock and roll, thinking that all is the same, that bad and good are relative concepts and idealism is a thing for old people. I'm sincerily sad for this situation, and I can't understand why these privileged children dreams to live in the same way than other poor young people that are desperate for they have not any hope in the future. Young Royals could help them , not like they are doing now, speaking about AIDS in a silly conference, but showing that other life is possible, that love, family , respect for the elder people, love for their own country and religion are not dead things and that having those values is not boring at all.

Hope these young people could realize what they represents and how important their role could be. I'm sure that they would become more happy and they must feel more useful than nowadays.

Hope that Prince Harry could have a good life, devoted to his country and people. If he tries this kind of life, he could realize how nice and good it is, and how he'll amuse himself. Seeing other people happy, guarrantees our own happiness. And I think that this will not be different for Royals.

Vanesa.
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  #143  
Old 03-27-2007, 12:17 AM
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The Prince Harry "drunk and out-of-control" stories sell papers and grab people's attention. It's like the expression "sex sells". For Prince Harry, unfortunately, the expression is "stupid sells". The more the media can portray Prince Harry as the clumsy, angry drunk royal, the more merrier they are. He is not the first "media victim" and he won't be the last. The truth is that he went to a club, he came out of a club, he fell, he got picked up, and he went home. In between, the paparazzi took pictures, and he got mad, but there is a positive from this: This time, no one got punched. Either he controlled himself or he was properly restrained! So our boy is learning.

Prince Harry can drink as much as he wants while inside the club. Unless one of us goes into Boujis to join him and counts every single drink he downs, we won't know what his alcoholic behavior truly is.

We can be grateful that he always has a driver to get him safely back home. We can be grateful that he is clearly learning anger management.
We can be grateful that he did not hurt himself when he fell. Prince Harry: Sober, Safe, and Snug, the gripping tale by Casiraghitrio!
  #144  
Old 03-27-2007, 12:17 AM
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In this country, Harry is only mentioned when he draws attention to himself and that's usually when he's behaving badly because he's drunk. Rightly or wrongly, he is being branded as a young lush. Now, I don't care one little bit how much he drinks, that's his business, but I do care a great deal how his public behaviour reflects on the royal family. It is not a good look for a prince of the realm to be photographed in the gutter, literally, no matter what the cause. My own opinion is that it's time he started to behave like an officer and a gentleman which he's been trained to be, and not just act responsibly when he's in uniform.
  #145  
Old 03-27-2007, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjrn
Fortunately, we are all allowed our opinion. The series of pictures from this week (different pics, same club, every couple of weeks) made it look like he was extremely drunk. Of course his father's going to trying to defend him.
I like to think that POW has checked his facts before he publicitely defended his son. Prince Harry is all the time when he is out of his home surrounded by protection officers which are not employed by the RF but by the state (police). So there's always at least one independant witness around which can be questioned by prince Charles. Plus both Charles and Harry are officers. I guess at least for them there is still a feeling of honour - I don't think Harry would lie to Charles. Thus I believe CH in this.
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  #146  
Old 03-27-2007, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna B.
You were right when you said, we all see what we want to see.....I'm just not sure you were aware that you were referring to yourself.
I was in fact referring to all of us, you, me and everyone else who looked at the same photos.
  #147  
Old 03-27-2007, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
..... Prince Harry: Sober, Safe, and Snug, the gripping tale by Casiraghitrio!
Brilliant post CasiraghiTrio!
  #148  
Old 03-27-2007, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
I like to think that POW has checked his facts before he publicitely defended his son. Prince Harry is all the time when he is out of his home surrounded by protection officers which are not employed by the RF but by the state (police). So there's always at least one independant witness around which can be questioned by prince Charles. Plus both Charles and Harry are officers. I guess at least for them there is still a feeling of honour - I don't think Harry would lie to Charles. Thus I believe CH in this.
Well said Jo of Palantine! Had Harry had a drink or two - yes, Is he drunk every weekend - no, did he attack the photographer - unlikely, was he larking about with the photographer - possibly, (the pap is laughing) was he 'set up' by the photographer - probably, did he trip and fall - oh yes. All IMO which I came to looking through my rose coloured glasses.
  #149  
Old 03-27-2007, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
The Prince Harry "drunk and out-of-control" stories sell papers and grab people's attention. It's like the expression "sex sells". For Prince Harry, unfortunately, the expression is "stupid sells". The more the media can portray Prince Harry as the clumsy, angry drunk royal, the more merrier they are. He is not the first "media victim" and he won't be the last. The truth is that he went to a club, he came out of a club, he fell, he got picked up, and he went home. In between, the paparazzi took pictures, and he got mad, but there is a positive from this: This time, no one got punched. Either he controlled himself or he was properly restrained! So our boy is learning.
Though I agree that a drunk Prince on the cover probably sells, it is not very fair to blame this all on the media. It was the prince who got himself in this situation, he was not tricked in getting drunk or tricked in stumbling.

Apart from that the media does write positively about the prince if they can. Harry has probably been praised in every newspaper and television news broadcast of most of the western world when he said that he wanted to be treated as any other soldier and that he wanted to go to Iraq. He received an enormous praise for what seems to me as a most normal request (what is the use of joining the army otherwise).

To call him a victim of the media is a bit over the top to, he is more a victim of his own lack of moderation in the use of alcohol.

-
Of course we could give a positive twist to the drunkeness: a new approach by the court to come more into touch with the common people (British youngsters use more alcohol then any others in the world).
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  #150  
Old 03-27-2007, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Had Harry had a drink or two - yes, Is he drunk every weekend - no, did he attack the photographer - unlikely, was he larking about with the photographer - possibly, (the pap is laughing) was he 'set up' by the photographer - probably, did he trip and fall - oh yes. All IMO which I came to looking through my rose coloured glasses.
If you think of Harry as a man, an officer and a gentleman, then you need no rose coloured glasses to come to these conclusions. I guess a lot of posters here in this forum forget that Harry is no longer a little boy, but a grown-up who had an excellent upbringing and tough militarian training. Becoming an officer is not only about fitness of the body but of the brain/soul as well. Thus (at least I assume that) prince Harry is mature, able to take on responsibility for himself and for his staff. But at the same time he is unfortunately a goose that lays golden eggs for the media - thus this story! Trapped! Imho, of course.
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  #151  
Old 03-27-2007, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
I guess a lot of posters here in this forum forget that Harry is no longer a little boy, but a grown-up who had an excellent upbringing and tough militarian training. .
I have to be honest. The tendency to talk about Harry's behavior as if he is a 15 year old child instead of an adult man creeps me out!

How many days of the year do we see photos of him off duty?

Because he is off duty, how many of those are of his leaving a nightclub as opposed to arriving?

Could the reason we see him leaving be because photos can be captioned to fit the headline?

Harry is no angel, but neither is he the poster child for every modern-day moral evil.

(And his father is certainly no uninformed dupe either!)

The fact is that he works hard and plays hard, not unlike most other youn men of his age. He could be ripping around the roads like a maniac driving a large number of residents insane with his speed.

With his wealth and social circle he could be a perennial polo playing drunken sleaze 24/7. The cocktail version of a larger lout.

Instead he has a real job, requiring real skill, real guts and no glory whatsoever. I mean, really, how much more dissipated can he possible get?
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  #152  
Old 03-27-2007, 11:43 AM
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And Prince Harry is the ONLY military officer in history who when facing a tough deployment got hammered on the town?

I guess the chappys I saw in my younger days didn't really exist then.

Ah, the boy is a boy, and he's not only looking to go overseas BUT he has the blasted media breathing down his throat at every turn.
He's a down to earth sort who would get a little fed up at the constant song and dance---this is one of his greatest charms.

I like Harry and I hope he had a blast. It's just tough that he is always on-stage. Heh, he hasn't fallen far from the tree, of course, when you think of King Edward VII's young officer days, those were pre-paparotters though.

No way can one know what Harry's life has been like. That lad has been through more than most fellows his age. Prince Charles is and has been wonderful to the boys but I can't guess at the inner dynamics of that family.
There is "stuff" going on in Harry's head, no mistake, but he's a lovely boy all around in my book and I worry for his safety.
  #153  
Old 03-27-2007, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
I like to think that POW has checked his facts before he publicitely defended his son. Prince Harry is all the time when he is out of his home surrounded by protection officers which are not employed by the RF but by the state (police). So there's always at least one independant witness around which can be questioned by prince Charles. Plus both Charles and Harry are officers. I guess at least for them there is still a feeling of honour - I don't think Harry would lie to Charles. Thus I believe CH in this.
I think you are right. In this situation, Clarence House should definitely be the preferable authority because the only other authority is that photographer, I guess, and he clearly has a motive to say things against Prince Harry's conduct. Critics may argue that CH has a motive to protect Prince Harry even if that means lying, but since the paparazzi were the provokers in the situation, I am more in favor of giving CH the authority. In this situation, CH is justified to defend Prince Harry from a paparazzi that was just *playing on* (feeding on it, for profit) his inebriated state.
  #154  
Old 03-27-2007, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo
Though I agree that a drunk Prince on the cover probably sells, it is not very fair to blame this all on the media. It was the prince who got himself in this situation, he was not tricked in getting drunk or tricked in stumbling.

Apart from that the media does write positively about the prince if they can. Harry has probably been praised in every newspaper and television news broadcast of most of the western world when he said that he wanted to be treated as any other soldier and that he wanted to go to Iraq. He received an enormous praise for what seems to me as a most normal request (what is the use of joining the army otherwise).

To call him a victim of the media is a bit over the top to, he is more a victim of his own lack of moderation in the use of alcohol.

-
Of course we could give a positive twist to the drunkeness: a new approach by the court to come more into touch with the common people (British youngsters use more alcohol then any others in the world).
Yes, ok I can buy that I might have over-stated the "media victim" line. You make a good point about his "good press" but still I think the media does exaggerate (<--I always forget if that gets one or two 'g's') to make Harry seem reckless. I've also seen the paparazzi in action, in video and person, and they shout mean things and truly try to get a rise from their subjects. When they do it to people who have had one or two drinks too many or downright inebriated (either way, the alcohol lowers the inhibitions, the awareness, and heightens sensitivities) then the paparazzi are just taking advantage of the situation and egging him on. If you push or insult a drunk person, you will get a stronger reaction than from a sober person. And when you are tipsy or drunk, walking out to a car in the flash of camera lights and flashes can be a major task!

I have always believed it is not good judgement on the part of Prince William and Prince Harry to go out to these paparazzi-targeted clubs. I think they would be better off inviting their friends to their palace. But at the same time I understand that they want to go out and be "normal" (at least for "celebrity" royals, meeting other celebrities and all) and they want to be with young people (maybe Drones or Annabel's are too Old Guard, although some young aristocrats go there, right?)

Here's a good question to think about:
Was Prince Harry leaving the club in the front or rear entrance? Because, if he left at the rear, then the paparazzi made a specific task of meeting him there, making this situation entirely their fault. If he left in the front, I wonder what was he thinking? Why doesn't he leave by the rear? I can't imagine Prince Harry courts attention?
  #155  
Old 03-27-2007, 01:47 PM
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well, they probably mix a bit of truth with a bit of one-sided coverage. They seem to love the good vs the bad royal, remember Charles vs Randy Andy, Elizabeth vs Margaret and even Edward vs Albert/George VI. In all cases there was a certain truth behind it though, as is the case now IMHO.

One can blame it on the paparazzi's, but as this wasn't a private party (and at least outside it is public area) Harry could and should have known that this was a possibility. It certainly happened before, and it will most probably happen again to.

We have to call in some experts who can inform us on exag(g)erate, I have no idea either
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  #156  
Old 03-27-2007, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Here's a good question to think about:
Was Prince Harry leaving the club in the front or rear entrance? Because, if he left at the rear, then the paparazzi made a specific task of meeting him there, making this situation entirely their fault. If he left in the front, I wonder what was he thinking? Why doesn't he leave by the rear? I can't imagine Prince Harry courts attention?
Many of the articles have said he did indeed leave via the rear entrance specifically to avoid the paparazzi.
Just one example:
News article

Quote:
"He saw me as he came out of the club's rear entrance because he didn't want to be spotted leaving with Natalie."
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  #157  
Old 03-27-2007, 09:37 PM
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*sigh* This is what happens to some people when they grow up without a mother and their father is way too leniant.
Harry isn't that bad I've seen worse. Two classmates of mine decided to over drink vodka and wound up at the hospital getting their stomachs pumped. But then again this isn't the first time Harry has gotten into trouble as a result from drinking.
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  #158  
Old 03-27-2007, 10:29 PM
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Well this last page has certainly been instructive though not at all about Harry.

Let's see, we've learned the proper spelling of the word exaggerate
Bantered about the Queen's true feelings about the Iraq war, and
last but not least, started a major dissertation about the definition of a constitutional monarchy.

Its all been really fun but it doesn't really belong in Harry's Current Events thread.

ysbel
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  #159  
Old 03-28-2007, 12:07 AM
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I am just curious to know where in the world he got that garish scarf?! It just cries fashion victim, or colour blind.
  #160  
Old 03-28-2007, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incas
I am just curious to know where in the world he got that garish scarf?! It just cries fashion victim, or colour blind.
I like it!
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