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  #41  
Old 06-30-2006, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
Royals are just people like everyone else...
couldn't agree more
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  #42  
Old 06-30-2006, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel
People shouldn't tell others whom to marry, that is everyone's right to decide. The right that people may have is to decide if they want a monarchy in their countries, there are countries that love their royal families and they dont see any problem in mixed marriages at all, but we need to recognize that in some countries, where the monarchy is becoming less and less wanted, they take any excuse to evaluate it as irrelevant and unnecessary, one of the thing they use is the common practice (nowdays) of princes and princess getting marriage with commoners.
You have a valuable point here but do you think that a "suitable" marriage would change or only sway the attitude of the Contra-Royalists? OTOH I'm convinced that a "wrong" marriage of one Royal doesn't change the attitude of a true monarchist, so IMHO I wish them all the luck in the world in finding their "Miss Wonderful" - be she Princess, Lady or plain Miss Wonderful (or even the divorced Ms. Wonderful like Leticia Ortiz or Camilla P-B...). Seems most of them currently in front line to a throne found their respecive species of the Ms Wonderful variant...
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  #43  
Old 06-30-2006, 08:16 AM
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I prefer to see them happily married without a throne that in the throne and sadly married. I just mentioned this because it is how it is been used for causing bad publicity to the monarchies, im sure it wont change a bit the way of thinking of a monarchist neither a suitable marriage will change a republican, but it is an argument being used to convince the people that doesnt have strong opinions about the subject, the same thing they do when they spend money on clothes or traveling around the world, etc.
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  #44  
Old 06-30-2006, 08:58 AM
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From some of the comments on the Internet, I think the commoner royal brides are subject to a lot more unwarranted criticism than their aristocratic counterparts.

On another thread, someone mentioned that the aristocrat Mathilde was the only crown princess that hadn't received a negative backlash or reaction.

I think most everyone is enchanted by the fairytale of a Cinderella marrying a prince but the reality seems to be that once she marries him, the public gets offended at any show of confidence and complain that they're nothing special or that they think they're better than anybody else. Once a commoner marries a royal, people seem to want to put them back in their middle or working class place rather than let them be royal.

I think it is in some ways because we think we know these women better than the aristocrats and we can probably pick one or two girls we grew up with who reminds of Princess X or Y. If the girls of our childhood were just normal ordinary folks, then what is so special about Princess X and why are people going crazy about her? For an aristocrat like Mathilde, we have no commonality or point of reference for what she should be like, so we let her be herself. We don't extend that courtesy to the commoner brides.

I admit I was rather disappointed at the pettiness of some of the complaints about the other princesses and thought they were wholly undeserved but I think its a strong underlying trait of human nature to want to tear down someone that rises above their station not based on their accomplishments but based on the mere fact that a royal fell in love with them and I cannot think it bodes well for the monarchy if the women they choose to marry are naturally subject to so much petty criticism. Although they're perfectly capable women, the constant harping of why someone thinks she's better than she is takes away from the majesty of the monarchy.
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  #45  
Old 06-30-2006, 09:04 AM
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I didn't follow it too much, but I still remember the fuss about whether or not the crown prince of Norway would be allowed to marry a woman "with a past". I remember Haakon saying that he would chose Mette-Marit before the throne. I remember Haakon and Mette-Marit being compared to king Harald and queen Sonja, as Harald hardly had been allowed to marry Sonja either, because she was a commoner. I really felt bad for Haakon and Mette-Marit. And when the wedding finally came, it was so beautiful. Which year was that wedding? 2001 or 2002 maybe? But I remember watching parts of it on TV. If Haakon and Mette-Marit can stay happy, we should all prefer that, even if Mette-Marit made bad decisions before she became crown princess, to any of the unhappy arranged marriages between two royals, that were so common in the past.
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  #46  
Old 06-30-2006, 09:20 AM
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But there have been significant cases of the 'girl next door' i.e, the aristocratic but all too common (and I don't mean that in a derrogatory way) Lady Diana Spencer alomst bringing an ancient dynasty down. When you have a country let alone a Commonwealth to consider, love should be the last thing on your mind. Is the purpose of marriage love? I think we have watched too many romance films and read too many love stories that reality is so distorted.
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  #47  
Old 06-30-2006, 05:24 PM
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I wonder if it's the idea that people in general have about the monarchy (or Royals) what bothers some when that elite adds to it's members the so called commoners? I mean, we have a perception, since time began, that leaders of all kinds are to be held to a different set of standards. Today we have less royals as visible leaders but we have other forms of royalty like celebrity or politicians and they seem to have the same effect in us, the public. If celebrity X (Jlo, Britney, Mariah, etc) marries a non famous person, then that person is viewed as an invader that disrupts the idea we had on what would be the best match for these celebrities. And those ideas, I have to say, are mostly manipulated into our minds by the magazines and tabloids. The headlines they use do strike a cord into our minds. A reaction of disgust because we don't want such and such celebrity to end up with a 'commoner'.

And the same translates to rich people and royals. Is not that whom they married is bad for them, is just that in the back of our minds we want the fairy tale to continue: royal with royal, mega celebrity with mega celebrity. I also notice that gender causes a different set of standards. For example again, a rich American royal-like Donald Trump. In other times and places he would be royal or noble, so today's mega rich people fill the void created by lack of title nobility. When he married his last wife, a model, she was viewed as perfect for him (and his ego). But if his daugther Ivanka Trump decided to marry a male model there will be a public uproar in Wall Street and a guillotine installed for that poor guy and placed next to the famous Wall Street giant Charging Bull sculpture.

Two sets of stadards for the same persons. The world of royalty is one that is also mystified not just by tabloids but by our common knowledge, these past two centuries of planetary republicatization can't even come close to over 6000 years of royalty in human history. You just can't shake that out from the back of our brains. That's why is difficult to accept royals coming out of their pedestals to mix and marry people like us, commoners. Because we forget that it was us, or our ancestors, who placed them in those pedestals out of the need of a leader to stabilize our countries. And once we see that the whole prejudice problem is just in the back of our minds, then prejudice ceases to be. We realize that, everyone is the same, blood is red everywhere.
That's when we come to terms with the fact that the new era of commoner Princesess is not only is good for Royalty but they help us out to get those ancient ideas out of our minds...if we only give them the same chance strangers would have given us if we were the ones on their situation. :)
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  #48  
Old 06-30-2006, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc de Chatres
But there have been significant cases of the 'girl next door' i.e, the aristocratic but all too common (and I don't mean that in a derrogatory way) Lady Diana Spencer alomst bringing an ancient dynasty down. When you have a country let alone a Commonwealth to consider, love should be the last thing on your mind. Is the purpose of marriage love? I think we have watched too many romance films and read too many love stories that reality is so distorted.
Wow, heart of stone much?
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  #49  
Old 06-30-2006, 07:51 PM
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Yes, really! That was insensitive!
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  #50  
Old 07-01-2006, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc de Chatres
But there have been significant cases of the 'girl next door' i.e, the aristocratic but all too common (and I don't mean that in a derrogatory way) Lady Diana Spencer alomst bringing an ancient dynasty down. When you have a country let alone a Commonwealth to consider, love should be the last thing on your mind. Is the purpose of marriage love? I think we have watched too many romance films and read too many love stories that reality is so distorted.
The situation of the Windsor-Spencer marriage is not the role model to measure most royal marriages, either to commoners or to the aristocratic girl next door. Maybe some of our Forum's legal eagles members can check if the term extenuating circumstances could apply here to explain that train-wreck-waiting-to-happen that was their stormy relationship. The tabloid media, the other people involved, the family, etc. We could go on for days and never figure out how these two ended up together and lasted so long. But this is not the thread for that.

For every royal divorce count how many other royals have found happiness with another aristrocrat or a commoner spouse. Then you will realize that love conquers all, and that's the first step, both must love each other to make it work. And then, together, work for their country.
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  #51  
Old 07-01-2006, 03:51 AM
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Sorry! What I meant was that in marriages of state, love should never be an issue-fine, smile, go and meet the public together, then go your own way in private but for the country's sake, stick together. The partner has to know what's expected. Queen Sonja is a good example of a morganatic wife who knows her place. The girls you see now-a disaster waiting to happen, particularly in this celebrity-crazed age we live in. We have to be realistic. Cinderella is nice on paper but in real life?
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  #52  
Old 07-01-2006, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc de Chatres
Sorry! What I meant was that in marriages of state, love should never be an issue-fine, smile, go and meet the public together, then go your own way in private but for the country's sake, stick together. The partner has to know what's expected. Queen Sonja is a good example of a morganatic wife who knows her place. The girls you see now-a disaster waiting to happen, particularly in this celebrity-crazed age we live in. We have to be realistic. Cinderella is nice on paper but in real life?
No problem, I assumed you were not so strict. :)

You have a very good point there, the other person be it male or female needs to know what he/she is getting themselves into. The age has a lot to do with it too. When the Windsor-Spencer couple got married, she was barely out of her teens and he was already a well known world traveled playboy. That brings to mind the marriage of a young Princess Caroline of Monaco and Phillipe Junot as the Charles and Diana reverse opposites in life.

In contrast, we have today Royals getting married to people that are out of their teens and sometimes their twenties. Men and women who have prepared themselves to deal with life on their own. Well educated, with social skills developed (as in persons who work with others or are in constant work related networking activities, for example Letizia, Mary, Alexandra, Masako, Queen Rania, Mathilde, Maxima, Srirasmi of Thailand, etc). They are profesional people who later became spouses and then parents. They have an edge over a lady out of her teens with no advanced education who was employed in a daycare center.

I always have this feeling had Mrs. Windsor-Spencer given the chance to pursue a higher education and deal with the world as an adult the story would have been quite different. Her preparation to deal with problems in life would have sharpened her skills to deal with marital problems. In contrast the new set of spouses for the modern royal can deal today with anything life throws at them. And not just the ladies but the future male royal spouses for Princesses Victoria and Madeline in Sweden. Even a young couple like Prince William and his lady friend Kate Middletown seem more stable in their lives than their predecessors'. They both had the time to mature as they go along rather than marry in their youth.

But another example of young love between royal and commoner, Harry and Chelsy, all that I see is a train wreck waiting to happen. Not because of age or lack of experience in life but because both seem to have mercurial peronalities, explosive tempers. I see a very passionate couple with a very rocky future together. In another era and under another set of rules I would have prefered someone like Harry to meet and marry another Royal and give their relationship a balance to deal with the job of being Royal. A royal lady would stabilize that impulsive demeanor of his and give him a better and solid ground to deal with the world.
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  #53  
Old 07-01-2006, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrinceLorenzo
Not really. Marriages for Monarchies isn't about power anymore. They can marry whoever the hell they want.
I agree. A marriage between royals doesn't have the same impact that it did centuries ago.
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  #54  
Old 02-07-2007, 08:36 AM
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Mesalliances in European Monarchies

Excuse me, but I have a question. How you concern to what many European princes and successors of thrones are married to simple girls? How you concern to the Spanish fairy tale on the Cinderella? Then the Spanish successor married the television journalist. Still also I have a question. Now Luis Alfonso de Bourbon (or Louis XX of France) it is married to the daughter of the Latin American millionaire and the banker. But from what family it occurs?
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  #55  
Old 02-07-2007, 09:09 AM
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When someone is in love, and happy, I can't say that I would call that a mesalliance. Ages ago, literally, royalty married for power and position, thus they generally married someone that could be a strategic strength either to their armies, a good political partner, or someone who would bring funds to the treasury. Since that is no longer neccessary I can't find anything at all wrong with marrying for love. In fact, I think that is simply the only reason one should marry.
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  #56  
Old 02-07-2007, 11:12 AM
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I would say the marriage between Tsar Nicholas II and Princess Alexandra of Hesse Darmsdat a misalliance. It was love, but she was grossly unsuited to her role of Tsarina and the social life it demanded.
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  #57  
Old 02-07-2007, 12:04 PM
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The same would be true of Elizabeth of Austria. She was not cut out for the role of Empress
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  #58  
Old 02-07-2007, 12:18 PM
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Ages ago, literally, royalty married for power and position, thus they generally married someone that could be a strategic strength either to their armies, a good political partner, or someone who would bring funds to the treasury.
Well, it brought benefit to the people of the nation, not really the two actually involved in the marriage. Not to mention love is sometimes a tricky thing considering the divorce between Alexandra and Prince Joachim. Marriage should be based on practical considerations beyond love, it should be based on compatibility and shared values and an understanding as to what is a good way to raise children.
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  #59  
Old 02-07-2007, 02:22 PM
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In no any European country is demanded by Constitution or by law that the spouse of the head of state must be 'Ebenbürtig'.

For any Government and Parliament all discussion about that ends with this.

Of course , personally, I would like to see traditional royal or noble partners linked to each other. But our personal taste is has no any relevance in this. In none of the present day monarchies a Government can block a marriage with a 'commoner', purely for the reason that he/she lacks blue blood.
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  #60  
Old 02-07-2007, 02:56 PM
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Besides, a little bit of "fresh" blood never did any royal family any harm. I mean, do we really want to see our Prince's and Princess's marry their cousins and stuff like that? They are almost all related one way or another. Maybe the next generation will marry blue bloods...by then the gene pool will have widend considerably.
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