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  #301  
Old 12-04-2017, 11:23 PM
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People are confused on all of this...Meghan won’t likely walk behind Harry on her introduction tours. Not even Catherine walked behind William when they did these tours. They walked together.

I’m actually glad Meghan waved with some energy, because the Cambridge’s and Harry’s public waves are pretty weak and non interesting. The best royal waves were from The Queen, Queen Mother and Princess Margaret.
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  #302  
Old 12-04-2017, 11:30 PM
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But I did notice that it was often Harry leading Meghan to the forefront, whether with a touch on the back or waiting until she shook hands or walked into a room. He seemed to be taking more of a gentleman's approach and less of a prince on an engagement approach. I certainly didn't mind it but he may get a reminder to stick closer to protocol on formal engagements.
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  #303  
Old 12-04-2017, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Abbigail View Post
But I did notice that it was often Harry leading Meghan to the forefront, whether with a touch on the back or waiting until she shook hands or walked into a room. He seemed to be taking more of a gentleman's approach and less of a prince on an engagement approach. I certainly didn't mind it but he may get a reminder to stick closer to protocol on formal engagements.
I suspect he will, but he's probably going to be looking back and checking on her a lot.

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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Did you read that article btw? I think some stuff is wrong. I don't think while the Queen is alive that her younger children has to curtsey to William and Harry. So Meghan will not have to curtsey to George and Charlotte once married. And is it true that as an American, she doesn't have to curtsey to anyone until she's UK citizen?
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  #304  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:01 PM
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i am curious regarding the photo released for the diplomatic reception of 2016:

http://www.etonline.com/sites/defaul...y628627140.jpg

the diplomatic reception is a white tie event. i thought gloves were required for white tie events in women. however, i see that, while the queen and camilla are wearing gloves, kate is not. does anyone know what the protocol is?
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  #305  
Old 12-05-2017, 06:23 PM
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An interesting question - I love these issues of etiquette!

From Debrett's - 'long evening gloves are traditionally worn at balls and dinners when the dress code is ‘white tie’ but are no longer compulsory at many events. They work best with sleeveless dresses but older women may wear them with cap or short sleeves. With long sleeves it is better to dispense with gloves, rather than wear short ones. Gloves should be worn en route to an event, in a receiving line, when shaking hands and dancing. They are removed when eating (even a canapé) and at the dinner table – they should be taken off finger by finger and rested on the lap under the napkin.'
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  #306  
Old 12-05-2017, 06:34 PM
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Glad that protocol changed; it looks so much better without gloves!
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  #307  
Old 12-06-2017, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by irish_royalist View Post
An interesting question - I love these issues of etiquette!

From Debrett's - 'long evening gloves are traditionally worn at balls and dinners when the dress code is ‘white tie’ but are no longer compulsory at many events. They work best with sleeveless dresses but older women may wear them with cap or short sleeves. With long sleeves it is better to dispense with gloves, rather than wear short ones. Gloves should be worn en route to an event, in a receiving line, when shaking hands and dancing. They are removed when eating (even a canapé) and at the dinner table – they should be taken off finger by finger and rested on the lap under the napkin.'
thanks for checking this! it makes sense. kate is a newer generation royal and was also born out of the family so i am glad she went for what seemed comfortable for her. i think her gown looks lovely as is, without gloves.
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  #308  
Old 12-17-2017, 06:04 PM
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Well I doubt there will be many royal quartet engagements, thankfully. Either way, Meghan doesn't need Kate to tell her where to walk. That's protocol she will have learned from her husband and staff.
+1. Not to mention, Kate isn't exactly a pro at protocol seeing as how she tried to walk ahead of both Charles and Camilla at one of the Jubilee celebrations and had to be pulled back by William.

Like you, Abbigail, I think Meghan would be best served to listen to her husband (to be) and staffers.


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The more experienced royals can use their discretion but for people like Meghan it’s best to just go by the book
I'm curious what you mean by "people like Meghan?"

Also, I don't remember Meghan saying Kate had been "invaluable," just that she had been friendly and welcoming. But I could totally be wrong there. (Actually, I just checked the transcript of the interview and all Meghan said about Kate was "she's been wonderful.")
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  #309  
Old 12-17-2017, 06:15 PM
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Lady G when did William have to pull Kate back? I just don't remember it...any idea of a time or ?


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  #310  
Old 12-17-2017, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Lady G when did William have to pull Kate back? I just don't remember it...any idea of a time or ?


LaRae

I've been looking, but I can't find the gif now (if I find it I'll PM you). It's during the Jubilee when she's wearing that red dress that Kim K wore. They are all on the Spirit of Chartwell barge waiting to disembark (or maybe just waiting to go down some stairs). It's raining so they all have umbrellas. Kate and William (and probably Harry behind them) are standing to the right (in the picture) and the queen goes down the stairs. She was meant to be followed by Charles and Camilla who were standing behind the queen, but Kate starts to cross in front of Camilla/cuts off Camilla to go down the stairs. William pulls her back indicating that she needs to wait, then Camilla and Charles go down. Then Kate goes down the stairs ahead of William (he indicates she should go), but to top it off, she pokes him in the head with her umbrella.
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  #311  
Old 12-17-2017, 08:19 PM
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Oh very interesting Lady G! If you find it please do PM me!



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  #312  
Old 12-17-2017, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Gudgeon View Post
I've been looking, but I can't find the gif now (if I find it I'll PM you). It's during the Jubilee when she's wearing that red dress that Kim K wore. They are all on the Spirit of Chartwell barge waiting to disembark (or maybe just waiting to go down some stairs). It's raining so they all have umbrellas. Kate and William (and probably Harry behind them) are standing to the right (in the picture) and the queen goes down the stairs. She was meant to be followed by Charles and Camilla who were standing behind the queen, but Kate starts to cross in front of Camilla/cuts off Camilla to go down the stairs. William pulls her back indicating that she needs to wait, then Camilla and Charles go down. Then Kate goes down the stairs ahead of William (he indicates she should go), but to top it off, she pokes him in the head with her umbrella.

Is this the incident?

https://youtu.be/aahTlfnIu0c

To me it looks like the Cambridges and Harry were immediately behind the Queen and were waiting for Charles and Camilla before disembarking; William gets Kate to move the side, but more because she didn’t realize she was blocking Charles’ way (Harry is blocking Camilla’s for a moment too).

She does seem to poke both William and Harry with her umbrella, and Camilla pokes Harry with his; the umbrellas are big and Kate and Camilla are shorter than William and Harry.
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  #313  
Old 12-17-2017, 09:09 PM
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Hmmm I don't think it was Kate not following protocol or not knowing about protocol..I think it was just the confusion of all those folks milling around trying to get down the narrow stairs.

Even Harry got trapped and tried to figure out a way to move back so he could go down behind William/Kate.


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  #314  
Old 12-17-2017, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Is this the incident?

https://youtu.be/aahTlfnIu0c

To me it looks like the Cambridges and Harry were immediately behind the Queen and were waiting for Charles and Camilla before disembarking; William gets Kate to move the side, but more because she didn’t realize she was blocking Charles’ way (Harry is blocking Camilla’s for a moment too).

She does seem to poke both William and Harry with her umbrella, and Camilla pokes Harry with his; the umbrellas are big and Kate and Camilla are shorter than William and Harry.

That's the one - thanks! And, my mistake, it was the guy wearing the trench coat with the earpiece who pulls both William and Kate aside to let Charles and Camilla pass first. IMO, W&K were definitely about to go down the stairs first. The guy (IMO) is even shaking his hand, like, no no, wait, and pointing as if W&K need to step back.
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  #315  
Old 12-17-2017, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Gudgeon View Post
+1. Not to mention, Kate isn't exactly a pro at protocol seeing as how she tried to walk ahead of both Charles and Camilla at one of the Jubilee celebrations and had to be pulled back by William.

Like you, Abbigail, I think Meghan would be best served to listen to her husband (to be) and staffers.
To be fair, the Jubilee celebrations were just a year after Kate and William were married. They've been married almost 7 years now, so I'm pretty sure Kate has a better handle on how things are done. As for Meghan, of course she should listen to her husband and staffers, but that doesn't mean she can't also get advice from others. Kate can offer a unique perspective that neither the staffers, nor Harry can give her and if I were Meghan (or anyone marrying into the royal family), I'd be happy to take all the help I could get. Especially from someone that has experienced what I'm about to go through.

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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Is this the incident?

https://youtu.be/aahTlfnIu0c

To me it looks like the Cambridges and Harry were immediately behind the Queen and were waiting for Charles and Camilla before disembarking; William gets Kate to move the side, but more because she didn’t realize she was blocking Charles’ way (Harry is blocking Camilla’s for a moment too).

She does seem to poke both William and Harry with her umbrella, and Camilla pokes Harry with his; the umbrellas are big and Kate and Camilla are shorter than William and Harry.
That's what it looks like to me as well. There was a bit of a bottleneck at the stairs and everyone seems a little confused about what's going on. Even Harry takes a step towards the stairs before he realizes that Charles is behind him.
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  #316  
Old 01-02-2018, 07:40 PM
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In response to concerns about Meghan walking in front of Harry/Kate walking in front of William, I'm just going to leave these here. I would pay money to see William Hanson go back in time and tell the Queen Mother that she was making a faux pas.





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  #317  
Old 01-02-2018, 07:57 PM
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Did you read that article btw? I think some stuff is wrong. I don't think while the Queen is alive that her younger children has to curtsey to William and Harry. So Meghan will not have to curtsey to George and Charlotte once married. And is it true that as an American, she doesn't have to curtsey to anyone until she's UK citizen?
Formally children of the monarch are higher in the order of precedence than grandchildren. In practice, the queen seems to make an exception for the children of the Prince of Wales but I cannot imagine that being to the extent that curtseys would be required (until William is king and Catherine his queen) - even though William and Harry will (officially) be higher in the order of precedence than their uncles and aunt when their father becomes king.

Did princess Margaret ever curtsey to her nephews and niece?
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  #318  
Old 01-02-2018, 08:08 PM
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I would think Princess Margaret would curtesy to the PoW.



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  #319  
Old 01-02-2018, 09:00 PM
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Royal Protocol and Etiquette

This Daily Mail article is repeating a load of information that we know to be false. Members of the British Royal Family do not bow/curtsey to each other - they only bow/curtsey to the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh. We have seen this in practice - the Queen and DoE are greeted with a bow/curtsey and a cheek kiss, while other members of the family are greeted with just the cheek kiss.

A video of this can be seen here:

At the start of the clip, you see Zara embracing the PoW with an embrace of the shoulders and a cheek kiss, then at the 20 second mark you see her greeting the Queen Mother with a cheek kiss then curtsey, Tim Laurence greeting the Queen with a cheek kiss then bow, Peter Phillips greeting the Queen with a bow then cheek kiss, and finally Zara greeting the Queen with a cheek kiss then curtsey.
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  #320  
Old 08-20-2018, 05:42 AM
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I always say that a révérence or a bow are optional and never an obligation. At the same time such acts have nothing to do with "who is higher in the pecking order". It is just an oldfashioned way of greeting someone.

This weekend saw Frau Karin Kneissl, the Austrian Minister of Foreign Affairs, making a Ye Olde Fashioned Habsburg Era révérence to a well-known Russian gentleman: picture.

At the same time this shows that making révérences or bows were not at all restricted to royals. Until roughly the 1960's the local nobleman could expect the lifting of hats, nods with the head and ladies making a knick.
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