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  #2501  
Old 08-19-2016, 06:54 PM
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Interesting conversation here. This is some information that I've dug up pertaining to Obama's bowing to the Emperor Akihito in 2009. Comes as a quote from the Office of the Chief of Protocol.

"The Office of the Chief of Protocol, working closely with the White House, provides advice on protocol matters for Presidential travel abroad. Protocol, in general, is about respecting the customs and traditions of a host country. The President was simply showing respect."

There is a breach of etiquette in this photo though and no one has noticed it.

"So did President Obama violate protocol? Well, yes, but not by bowing. He made the mistake of both shaking hands and bowing at the same time, a big breach of etiquette. The truth was that he was supposed to choose one or the other."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurar...n_the_bow.html

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...evisited/?_r=0
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  #2502  
Old 08-19-2016, 07:11 PM
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That's all he's done, show respect to other countries traditions and customs. I would do the same.
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  #2503  
Old 08-20-2016, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The President knows about protocol, Pranter. He's advised on this stuff on a regular bases. If there was a real problem with him doing it, he wouldn't be doing it. He's simply paying homage to the customs of the country he's visiting. He doesn't not have to do it, but that's the kind of guy he is. The man has too much class for people to understand.

I may not be President, but if I ever met The Queen, I will bow my head. I would even bow my head before the President. It's all about showing some respect for a Head of State in your own personal way.

There are people who curtsey before the President and some who bow. There some who even hug, kiss him and sometimes pick him up.

Of course he knows protocol. That is not the issue here. The issue is he knows it and ignores it.

It really doesn't matter what you, private citizen, does when you might meet a head of state. What matters is when the leader of the country (and those who work for him) do when they meet them.

I don't see how it is 'classy' to ignore protocol and just do whatever you want.

LaRae
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  #2504  
Old 08-20-2016, 12:15 PM
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I'm going to stray off topic and just say that I think this discussion has reached the point where people are not convincing one another of anything and are going to continue to disagree. It's a lively and deep discussion but it now is treading water.
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  #2505  
Old 08-21-2016, 08:55 PM
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In the Scrabble dictionary the definition of "curtsy" is "to bow politely."


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  #2506  
Old 08-22-2016, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Of course he knows protocol. That is not the issue here. The issue is he knows it and ignores it.

It really doesn't matter what you, private citizen, does when you might meet a head of state. What matters is when the leader of the country (and those who work for him) do when they meet them.

I don't see how it is 'classy' to ignore protocol and just do whatever you want.

LaRae
He's not ignoring it. He's allowed to greet some of these leaders with their countries traditions. He also don't do it all the time. He just met up with The Queen this year and he didn't do a gentleman bow.
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  #2507  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Very nicely done.

I have a little neice who is really into Princesses, Royal Weddings and everything princessy, pretty and girly. When she visits she checks to forums to see what they wear and she asked me how they managed to curtsey without landing on their tush. I came across a delightfully quaint, but right on the money, You Tube lesson on how to curtsey properly. I tried it with her for fun and surprise, surprise, surprise, neither of us fell on our tush!

Nice video.

Now how about the perfect Thai curtsy?



Or perhaps:




from 0:35 onwards?

But especially:




from 0:19 onwards!
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  #2508  
Old 09-02-2016, 05:39 PM
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A nice bow for the Infanta Alicia of Spain,Dowager Duchess of Calabria.

http://www.docelinajes.org/wp-conten...-DEL-SACER.jpg
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  #2509  
Old 09-07-2016, 05:00 AM
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Flavia Hohenlohe y Medina (sister of the late Duke of Medinaceli) curtseys to the King of Spain today.

[DNF] Fotoarchief Denieuwsfoto

http://www.ppe-agency.com/preview.ph...9-2016%20Spain
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  #2510  
Old 09-11-2016, 03:55 PM
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HSH Rainier III bows to Queen Sofia following the enthronement ceremony of King Juan Carlos in 1975.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...cb46ec71b0.jpg
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  #2511  
Old 10-11-2016, 04:14 AM
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CP Masako's curtsey to King Philippe:

http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/wp...56068342_n.jpg
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  #2512  
Old 10-11-2016, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
HSH Rainier III bows to Queen Sofia following the enthronement ceremony of King Juan Carlos in 1975.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...cb46ec71b0.jpg
I do not understand why he has to bow. He is head of state. She is Queen Consort
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  #2513  
Old 10-11-2016, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
I do not understand why he has to bow. He is head of state. She is Queen Consort
A personal mark of respect? In ye olde days it was pretty normal to bow or to make a little révérence for "the high lords and ladies". It was normal in the countryside that when the lady from the local castle passed by, gentlemen lifted their hat or cap as a greeting.
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  #2514  
Old 10-11-2016, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
I do not understand why he has to bow. He is head of state. She is Queen Consort
Well, this hasn´t changed since 1975 at all. Men keep on bowing to Queens, no matter consort or regnant, because they´re "Majesties".

But Pr Rainier would have to bow anyway. Also as a reigning Prince, he´s only a " Serene Highness", which is even more way below ranking than a "Royal Highness" (Princes/ sses, Dukes/ Duchesses). The title of "Majesty" is only held by monarchs, like Kings, Queens and Emperors.
To put it strictly, the british Queen´s granddaughters Princesses Beatrice or Eugenie (Royal Highnesses, Princesses of York) are, by standards of royal etiquette, even higher ranking than the Prince of Monaco!

Being a head of state is not what matters here; no Royal would normally ever bow or curtsey to a republican head of state!
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  #2515  
Old 10-12-2016, 08:51 AM
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Thanks @wartenberg7.
So Grand Duc Henri of Luxembourg bows to Queen Maxima despite she is younger. Interesting
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  #2516  
Old 10-12-2016, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
Thanks @wartenberg7.
So Grand Duc Henri of Luxembourg bows to Queen Maxima despite she is younger. Interesting
Usually the Grand-Duke simply gives a handkiss: picture. Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume does the same.
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  #2517  
Old 10-12-2016, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
Thanks @wartenberg7.
So Grand Duc Henri of Luxembourg bows to Queen Maxima despite she is younger. Interesting
Quote:
But Pr Rainier would have to bow anyway. Also as a reigning Prince, he´s only a " Serene Highness", which is even more way below ranking than a "Royal Highness" (Princes/ sses, Dukes/ Duchesses). The title of "Majesty" is only held by monarchs, like Kings, Queens and Emperors.
To put it strictly, the british Queen´s granddaughters Princesses Beatrice or Eugenie (Royal Highnesses, Princesses of York) are, by standards of royal etiquette, even higher ranking than the Prince of Monaco!
i don't think this is right.

the grand duke is the head of state and does not bow/curtsy to other royal head of state or his consort - whatever his title may be. it is true that things are a bit altered at the british court, but for the other courts i would never expect a head of state with a title other than king/emperror to have to curtsy to one of the latter.

proof is that there are no pictures of in the grand duke (or prince albert) in his many royal encounters bowing to other reigning monarchs. grand duchess maria teresa has never seen curtsying to other monarchs either, and there were recent visits by for example the netherlands or belgium to luxembourg.

see here for example:

grand duchess maria teresa greets queen sofia with a kiss

there have been odd instances, for example when charlene curtsied to the queen. i think that was just a sign of respect on charlene's part to someone who is older and much more experienced in the role than she was when that took place. she didn't have to, but won brownie points in my head for doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Usually the Grand-Duke simply gives a handkiss: picture. Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume does the same.
i think that is just the grand duke's way of being chivalrous. other royals do so too, both to royals and non-royals.

felipe greeting a non-royal with a handkiss
juan carlos doing the same
felipe greeting mrs. obama, wife of a head of state, with a handkiss
juan carlos hand kissing sheikha mozah
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  #2518  
Old 10-12-2016, 09:40 AM
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I have to find the video but when the Duchess of Cambridge arrived at the private villa of the King, she made a révérence to him.
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  #2519  
Old 10-12-2016, 09:47 AM
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You can see The Duchess of Cambridge curtsy to the the King in this clip

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  #2520  
Old 10-12-2016, 10:09 AM
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I think a lot of times in discussing various events and who curtsied to whom and who bowed to whom gets confusing because there is a mixture of protocol of what is expected and just plain old courtesy and respect.

Although its a dwindling practice, there are still times a man opens a car door for a woman (my hubby still does this) and pulls out a chair to seat a woman and there's always families that have "Dad" at the head of the table.

Then again, it might also be a truism that comes from the Duke of Edinburgh who smartly quipped "When a man opens a car door for his wife, it's either a new car or a new wife." (On a side note though, hubby and I have been married 19 years this month and own a older, very used vehicle but then again, we're practically dinosaurs from an age past.)
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