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  #2081  
Old 12-09-2014, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
That might be true Rudolph, or they could simply fail to understand what all the fuss is about.

DeBrett's Peerage is a book that's useful for lovers of history and geneology(like me). But if it's dictates were followed today as strictly as you seem to wish they were, there would be no Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge. Prince William would never have been permitted to marry a Kate Middleton.

Very true. As late as 1980 he would have had to marry a aristocrat and as late as 1918 a European Royal.
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  #2082  
Old 12-09-2014, 10:34 AM
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Royals being seen as celebrities started long before the Cambridges came on the scene. Just take a look at all the tabloids that Diana and Charles were plastered on. Plus when you have royals posing for the cover of fashion magazines (Diana, Charlene, Mary, Madeleine, etc.), it's kind of hard to claim that royals are somehow different/above celebrities.
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  #2083  
Old 12-09-2014, 10:40 AM
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How many times on these forums do we read so and so 'wows' America and its never the case.

There was a royal visit to the eastern US a couple of years ago by a well known European royal family and guess what? They were literally photographed wandering the streets looking for someone's hand to shake.

William in the span of less than 24 hours meets with the President of the United States, the Vice-President of the United States , the head of the World Bank and the United Nations.

That's really 'wowing' America
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  #2084  
Old 12-09-2014, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Its understandable. The Cambridges receive more media attention in a week than other royals do in a year if they're lucky and it gets people's backs up. Their favourite royal is left out
My back is not up. When the Cambridges DO something, my feelings about them will undoubtedly change - maybe for the better, perhaps for the worse. Currently, they are no better than vapid celebrities.
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  #2085  
Old 12-09-2014, 10:44 AM
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Bowing and Curtseying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
That might be true Rudolph, or they could simply fail to understand what all the fuss is about.

DeBrett's Peerage is a book that's useful for lovers of history and geneology(like me). But if it's dictates were followed today as strictly as you seem to wish they were, there would be no Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge. Prince William would never have been permitted to marry a Kate Middleton.

Plus DeBrett's would tell you that Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge is the incorrect style since she isn't divorced from William which is how it's written would indicate. 😉


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  #2086  
Old 12-09-2014, 10:47 AM
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I had no idea...thanks. See? Told ya I'm not interested!
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  #2087  
Old 12-09-2014, 06:08 PM
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Most of the comments I've seen online (FB and various articles) from Americans is that 95 percent of them could care less why they are here or give a fig about their status.


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  #2088  
Old 12-09-2014, 06:31 PM
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Let's face it - showing a certain amount of respect for a person who is present in a representative capacity of a head of state is one thing, bowing and curtsying to another human being in 2014 is simply and utterly ridiculous.
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  #2089  
Old 12-09-2014, 06:35 PM
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I think basically that Americans have been ingrained since birth that all are created equal and that is what their country has been built on. Of course, no system is perfect and there's a lot of areas where all are not treated equally but each person reserves that right. There's certain protocol that's expected. One wouldn't address the President as "Yo! Barack!" but as "Mr. President". It shows respect, if not for the person himself, for the office he holds.

The same applies to The Queen and any of the British Royal Family in the UK. We are not obligated at all to bow, curtsy, shake hands or even bother to show up to see anyone. History and tradition in a monarchy is the glue that holds it all together and symbolizes the spirit of the people. It would be expected that those that do turn out to see a royal in the UK, would show their respect in whichever way they feel comfortable with.

William and Kate, I believe, know this. I think they're actually more comfortable on an informal level with the people that they meet but I'd be very hard pressed to believe that they would ever step out of line as far as protocol dictates for formal occasions in the UK. Example being when William does investitures. It is expected that there will be bowing and curtsying and being called "Your Highness" rather than "Yo! Wills!".

In the long run, I do think its the occasion and the setting that mostly dictates what the protocol of etiquette is.
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  #2090  
Old 12-09-2014, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
My back is not up. When the Cambridges DO something, my feelings about them will undoubtedly change - maybe for the better, perhaps for the worse. Currently, they are no better than vapid celebrities.
Couldn't agree more.

They haven't done anything yet worthwhile and are more cringeworthy than noteworthy.
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  #2091  
Old 12-09-2014, 08:00 PM
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I thought this was the bowing/curtesying thread?
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  #2092  
Old 12-09-2014, 08:25 PM
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I know some people think bowing and curtsying in this day and age just seem downright silly but I think some of that old world class, grace and dignity is what we need to continue in this new world. I just like that kind of thing and not so sure we should throw out all the old world customs. I'm around the same age as the Cambridge's, and I recognize the lack of respect and dignity this new generation have.
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  #2093  
Old 12-09-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
In complete agreement with KittyAtlanta. Many people here in the US tend to view the Cambridges more as pop culture celebrities than true royalty anyway, which is indeed probably why an NBA player felt able to take the "privilege" of putting his arm around Kate. Something that never would have happened with the Princess of Wales 20 years ago and would not happen today with Maxima or Letizia.

No indictment of William and Kate themselves, it'simply the price of media overexposure and the old "familiarity breeds contempt" maxim.
Lebron James is use to standing next to people, all manner of people, and being photographed. He automatically puts his arm around whomever is standing next to him because that's what he does, perhaps because that person is usually much shorter than he. If James were to meet Maxima or Letizia, he would most likely do the exact same thing because that's what he does. We Americans are friendly people and there is no "royal protocol" here so there is no protocol to follow. We do not bow and scrape to anybody so all this noise is ridiculous. There was no disrespect meant and I'm sure the Duchess did not feel disrespected.
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  #2094  
Old 12-09-2014, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
There seems to be a special aura around HM QEII and the DoE. The queen is almost universally respected and admired for very good reason. Even Angelina Jolie gave her a little dip
Angelina gave the Queen a "little dip" because the Queen is so freaking short that Angelina HAD to dip a bit to get that thing the Queen was handing her.
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  #2095  
Old 12-09-2014, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
Let's face it - showing a certain amount of respect for a person who is present in a representative capacity of a head of state is one thing, bowing and curtsying to another human being in 2014 is simply and utterly ridiculous.
There are many cultures in the world today where bowing is common. Sometimes it's a show of respect for a person's rank, other times it's basic etiquette (eg. in parts of Asia). And, of course, sometimes it's done in a religious context. There are places in this world where young people even touch an elder's feet to show deep respect and ask for their blessing. Surely we can't go around calling them ridiculous because they have different rules of etiquette or because we have a different perspective on things than the rest of the world?
Last time I checked, European royals do not expect Americans to bow or curtsey to them. I'm sure someone who chooses to bow/curtsey does so without feeling any less of a human being than someone who does not.
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  #2096  
Old 12-09-2014, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I agree that it was a faux-pas on the part of Mrs. Obama, but the gesture was a warm and spontaneous one in response to QEII, who had put her arm around Mrs. Obama first. Americans are not accustomed to the idea that someone can touch them, but they shouldn't touch back.

Michelle was in her early days as First Lady and it was obviously simply a lack of awareness of Royal protocol...no big deal, imo.
I think it's easy to get caught up in the excitement and forget that you're dealing with royalty. Back in the 90's an Australian PM put his arm around the Queen. It happened again during the Cambridge's recent trip to Australia. Tony Abbott was photographed putting his hand on William's back.

I think the royals are a lot more relaxed when it comes to breaks in protocol. It's the press/public that creates a big fuss when something goes wrong.
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  #2097  
Old 12-09-2014, 08:56 PM
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I agree. From what I can tell the royals just calmly continue with their meet and greet. Only the press appears to make an issue out of it as most royal houses have just set guidelines if people choose to bow or curtsey.
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  #2098  
Old 12-09-2014, 09:52 PM
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Lebron James is use to standing next to people, all manner of people, and being photographed. He automatically puts his arm around whomever is standing next to him because that's what he does, perhaps because that person is usually much shorter than he. If James were to meet Maxima or Letizia, he would most likely do the exact same thing because that's what he does.
Personally I always step back from those who enter my personal space without invitation. It is just plain rude. As to Queen Maxima or Letizia, just like your President and First Lady, I think their Protection Officers would be less than impressed.

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We Americans are friendly people and there is no "royal protocol" here so there is no protocol to follow.
I bet you would fly well at a White House function because of course there's no protocol there.
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Originally Posted by mslewis View Post
We do not bow and scrape to anybody so all this noise is ridiculous. There was no disrespect meant and I'm sure the Duchess did not feel disrespected.
I looked up bowing and not surprisingly, there was no scraping implied or demanded. I think you are labouring under a misapprehension. While bowing and curtseying are not required, good manners are.
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  #2099  
Old 12-09-2014, 10:56 PM
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Nice curtsey from Princess Eugenie to Catherine.
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  #2100  
Old 12-09-2014, 11:09 PM
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Where, may I ask?
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