Monaco's succession issues

[Jaya]

Originally Posted by libra65

Grace-Thank you for your information on the EU. You are apparently quite knowledgable on the topic.

Jaya-the Picasso precedent was not set in Monaco (an independent nation) and did not involve the succession of a royal/princely house. As I said, these children will benefit financially from his personal wealth but not the wealth of the sovereign. Also, does your last post insinuate that the US government will allow another constitution to overide its own? Please tell me I'm misinterpreting that post? It will never happen.

MEMO:For your political concerns please contact Welcome to the White House and for the ramifications of the Picasso case Tiffany & Co. | Home | United States where Paloma Picasso designs jewelry.

Originally Posted by Grace

I understand what you say, but my problem is that what you say it's simply not true. I thought some clearing of juridical principles and laws could be welcome, but I see that you want to prove a point regardless of international affairs reality, so I'm out. Choose what you want, that a civil code has bearing on governing a country, that we'll all have the same Constitution, that the EU will force Monaco to change it's laws...
Thanks to those who appreciated my input; I majored in international studies, and had to pass exams on international law, European Union law, International relations, I was just trying to pass on something of what I've learnt.

I am agreeing with you to prove your point and you want to play Who is Afraid of Virginia Woolf.

[libra65]

Originally Posted by Jaya

MEMO:For your political concerns please contact Welcome to the White House and for the ramifications of the Picasso case Tiffany & Co. | Home | United States where Paloma Picasso designs jewelry.

Thanks Jaya. This White House administration could not possibly help with any political concerns I have. Besides, I am not concerned about the US Constitution because I know it is solid as a rock as I am sure the Constitution on "the Rock" is as well.

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by maya35

The boy needs a reality check and something to do with life.

Why would he?

Is he a Prince or even a noble? (No)

And besides that, does he owe something to us? (No)

Is he employed by the State of Monaco? (No)

Do we (or anyone else) pay taxes for him? (No)

He has as much freedom to do with his life as you and me.

[iloveroyals]

Originally Posted by Henri M.

Why would he?

Is he a Prince or even a noble? (No)

And besides that, does he owe something to us? (No)

Is he employed by the State of Monaco? (No)

Do we (or anyone else) pay taxes for him? (No)

He has as much freedom to do with his life as you and me.

Henri M., of course you have a point. However, we can look at it differently, in a more abstract, ethical, or even spiritual (he is raised with a religious background after all), or purely emotional point of view .

Does he owe anything to his mother and her considerable efforts in raising him to achieve something in his life ? (Yes)

Does he owe anything to the state of Monaco as a potential heir apparent and as a representative of that state, very much in the public eye ? (Yes)

Does he owe anything to society for being a recipient of such undeserved (by which I mean, only due to the randomness of birth) largesse ? (Yes: Noblesse oblige)

It can be summed up in one term : maturity. In other words, grow up, Andrea !

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by iloveroyals

It can be summed up in one term : maturity. In other words, grow up, Andrea !

I had the impression that he is a quite well-balanced guy who has self-esteem, stands firm in his shoes and goes his own way.

For me all these are signs of maturity. That young mister Casiraghi has longer hair, tja... not so long ago all royals had long wigs. That young mister Casiraghi appears unshaven, with red trousers and unkempt hairdo, tja: is he expected on an audience with the Pope or something? The guy just has a day off and one photographer saw him and with that 0,00001 millisecond click his picture has become eternity on the worldwide web.

Most likely he couldn't care less. Nor do the Monegasques (who are outnumbered by non-monegasque residents by the way).

[iloveroyals]

He "goes his own way", that's for sure. He is "well-balanced, has self-esteem and stands firm in his shoes" ? I'm not so sure.
Call me old-fashioned (and call me the mother of an adolescent boy) but I'll take the British or Swedish or Andrea's younger sibling's form of "well-balanced, self-esteem and standing firm in their shoes" anytime.

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by iloveroyals

He "goes his own way", that's for sure. He is "well-balanced, has self-esteem and stands firm in his shoes" ? I'm not so sure.
Call me old-fashioned (and call me the mother of an adolescent boy) but I'll take the British or Swedish or Andrea's younger sibling's form of "well-balanced, self-esteem and standing firm in their shoes" anytime.

The Swedish? Ok.

But eeeh... who are the British ?

Harry & William's weekly binge drinking boozing nights at Bouji's with yelling to photographers and grabbing in female parts?

[maya35]

Originally Posted by iloveroyals

He "goes his own way", that's for sure. He is "well-balanced, has self-esteem and stands firm in his shoes" ? I'm not so sure.
Call me old-fashioned (and call me the mother of an adolescent boy) but I'll take the British or Swedish or Andrea's younger sibling's form of "well-balanced, self-esteem and standing firm in their shoes" anytime.

My point exactly!
Sorry, I know it's his day off and everything, but do you see many people going out of the house without brushing their hair? Even not of royal birth? Dressed down is one thing, but anyone looking like he is lately is seriously lacking self respect. I would not go out of the house without a shower, especially if my partner is with me. Just my opinion, and I understand if Henri M. is of a different one.
I do understand that he owns nothing to us and he is free to do anything with his life just like you and me. I've never argued with that. It's just my point of view, but so far it looks like all he wants to do with life is hang out around trendy spots in NY looking like a tramp or pose on the red carpet (still looking like he can't be bothered), which, as CasiraghiTrio has smartly pointed out, is very unfortunate, considering how much opportunity he has compared to other people. Again, I don't pretend I know what he is up to. Just basing my personal opinion on what I have seen from the pictures.

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by maya35

...but so far it looks like all he wants to do with life is hang out around trendy spots in NY looking like a tramp or pose on the red carpet (still looking like he can't be bothered), which, as CasiraghiTrio has smartly pointed out, is very unfortunate, considering how much opportunity he has compared to other people.

We do know not much about all this. We do not know if uncle Albert is giving his nephew insight in the ins and outs of 'Grimaldi Inc.' and how the enormous estate should be managed.

What do you expect Andrea to do? You live in Girona. Your Catalonian provincial city already has 3x the number of inhabitants of Monte Carlo! I mean: there really is nothing to do for a fulltime royal. There are no state visits. There are almost no official visits. The 'government' is not much more than just an extended municipality council. The dazzling rich Grimaldi's can easily fill their days with relaxing, beaching and partying. The money flows into their pockets thanks to their investments and the casino. No wonder the late Princess Gracia was deadly bored and felt miserable and buried alive in this tiny principality. There was no any purpose in her life than playing the 'fairy tale princess'.

What exactly do you want Andrea to do? Should he have a job in a supermarket? He needs nothing to do. If Albert has no Heir, he will probably become the next Prince. If Albert will have an Heir, no problem. Then he remains the very rich mr. Casiraghi and goes on with his privileged life.

[maya35]

Originally Posted by Henri M.

We do know not much about all this. We do not know if uncle Albert is giving his nephew insight in the ins and outs of 'Grimaldi Inc.' and how the enormous estate should be managed.

What do you expect Andrea to do? You live in Girona. Your Catalonian provincial city already has 3x the number of inhabitants of Monte Carlo! I mean: there really is nothing to do for a fulltime royal. There are no state visits. There are almost no official visits. The 'government' is not much more than just an extended municipality council. The dazzling rich Grimaldi's can easily fill their days with relaxing, beaching and partying. The money flows into their pockets thanks to their investments and the casino. No wonder the late Princess Gracia was deadly bored and felt miserable and buried alive in this tiny principality. There was no any purpose in her life than playing the 'fairy tale princess'.

What exactly do you want Andrea to do? Should he have a job in a supermarket? He needs nothing to do. If Albert has no Heir, he will probably become the next Prince. If Albert will have an Heir, no problem. Then he remains the very rich mr. Casiraghi and goes on with his privileged life.

Fair enough. I can see what your opinion is based on. I have already pointed out that neither of us know what exactly Andrea is doing, and my view is based on assumption. He certainly does not need to do anything, that's for sure. I just don't view it as "mature". But, again, that is just me, and you are free to disagree with it

[iloveroyals]

Originally Posted by Henri M.

We do know not much about all this. We do not know if uncle Albert is giving his nephew insight in the ins and outs of 'Grimaldi Inc.' and how the enormous estate should be managed.

What do you expect Andrea to do? You live in Girona. Your Catalonian provincial city already has 3x the number of inhabitants of Monte Carlo! I mean: there really is nothing to do for a fulltime royal. There are no state visits. There are almost no official visits. The 'government' is not much more than just an extended municipality council. The dazzling rich Grimaldi's can easily fill their days with relaxing, beaching and partying. The money flows into their pockets thanks to their investments and the casino. No wonder the late Princess Gracia was deadly bored and felt miserable and buried alive in this tiny principality. There was no any purpose in her life than playing the 'fairy tale princess'.

What exactly do you want Andrea to do? Should he have a job in a supermarket? He needs nothing to do. If Albert has no Heir, he will probably become the next Prince. If Albert will have an Heir, no problem. Then he remains the very rich mr. Casiraghi and goes on with his privileged life.

Frankly, I don't see what living in a small place, be it a village, a city, an island or a state has to do with the choices you make in life when you are not hindered by dire economic and social circumstances. You make it sound as he was a prisoner of Monaco. Quite the reverse, he has been exposed to much geographical and cultural diversity, and until (and if) he becomes heir, he certainly can make his mark, however modest he may want it to be, anywhere. I think that's why some of us are disappointed : he's been given so much, we'd like him to give back a little, or least express himself in creative ways. He must have so much to offer ! It's our confidence in his talents that drives our annoyance. Look, we've seen him grow up from infancy, we care, both for him, and for how his continual defiance must wear on his mother and siblings...

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by iloveroyals

Frankly, I don't see what living in a small place, be it a village, a city, an island or a state has to do with the choices you make in life when you are not hindered by dire economic and social circumstances. You make it sound as he was a prisoner of Monaco. Quite the reverse, he has been exposed to much geographical and cultural diversity, and until (and if) he becomes heir, he certainly can make his mark, however modest he may want it to be, anywhere. I think that's why some of us are disappointed : he's been given so much, we'd like him to give back a little, or least express himself in creative ways. He must have so much to offer ! It's our confidence in his talents that drives our annoyance. Look, we've seen him grow up from infancy, we care, both for him, and for how his continual defiance must wear on his mother and siblings...

Most of us will adore Caroline or Albert or Stéphanie. But apart from the occasional photoshoots at the Bal de la Rose, the Fête Nationale or Le Cirque, hardly anyone of us will have seen them 'contributing'. There is not much to contribute in one of the wealthiest states in the world anyway.

And, as said, even The Prince hardly finds enough substantial activities to fill his princely agenda. Andrea is even no Prince at all and does also not live in Monaco. And weren't Stéphanie and Caroline a lot 'worser' and 'scandalous' on the same age as Andrea?

Compared with them, we can better go to the Vatican apply for a sanctification of young mister Casiraghi!

[sm1939]

I know andrea isnt a prince , but it doesnt look likley that albert is going to have a child in wed lock ! so what is going to happen , if albert dies , caroline also dies , then we are left with " Andrea " so shouldnt he have some form of training ??? ...... then again Albert could have a master plan and be getting married soon who knows !

[Suonymona]

Albert will get married. But he thinks he has enough time left to find love, not just find a young-enough-to-be-fertile-old-enough-so-he-thinks-he-doesn't-look-ridiculous female to keep the direct line going.

I truly believe Albert will get married and sire more children (aka the legitimate heirs). It just depends on what point he gives up on what he wants and does what the Crown desires.

[sirhon11234]

I hope Albert legitamizes Alexandre and make him his heir than Andrea.

[acid_rain3075]

Originally Posted by sirhon11234

I hope Albert legitamizes Alexandre and make him his heir than Andrea.

well, correct me if I'm wrong but he can't! And why not Andrea, I know he likes to party a bit but that shouldn't influence the line of succession!

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by Suonymona

Albert will get married. But he thinks he has enough time left to find love, not just find a young-enough-to-be-fertile-old-enough-so-he-thinks-he-doesn't-look-ridiculous female to keep the direct line going.

In 1878 Willem III King of the Netherlands, Prince of Orange-Nassau, Grand-Duke of Luxembourg (61 years old) engaged himself with Princess Emma zu Waldeck und Pyrmont (19 years old).

There was an age difference of 42 years between the two fiancées. In 1880 their daughter Wilhelmina was born, who would rule the Kingdom of the Netherlands for 58 looong years. Queen Wilhelmina was the grandmother of the present Queen Beatrix.

So, Prince Albert does not need to hurry.

[sirhon11234]

Originally Posted by acid_rain3075

well, correct me if I'm wrong but he can't! And why not Andrea, I know he likes to party a bit but that shouldn't influence the line of succession!

When was the last time you saw Andrea do anything produvtive besides partying. You have to have more than good looks to be a good ruler.

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by sirhon11234

When was the last time you saw Andrea do anything produvtive besides partying. You have to have more than good looks to be a good ruler.

Really, Andrea does not need 'to rule'.
The is a Government for that, with excellent and capable ministers and secretaries, you know.
They do the 'ruling' in the name of Le Prince.

[acid_rain3075]

Originally Posted by sirhon11234

When was the last time you saw Andrea do anything produvtive besides partying. You have to have more than good looks to be a good ruler.

Well, actually, if you go into the Andrea Casiraghi Current Events part 11 thread and go to page 5, post #86, you'll soon realize that Andrea doesn't (in my opinion) have very much good looks to speak of anymore! but thats beside the point! once again partying shouldn't influence the line of succession! and as far as I know it doesn't! (and just think if that were the case then Albert wouldn't have any successors to speak of, period)! But I have to agree with Henri M. on this one, P. Albert has time to find love and create a family! just give him time, but if he doesn't then Andrea like it or not will become the the Prince of Monaco, but thats just my opinion! (although, on another note, I think Charlotte would be a good princess well I'm not sure about that but she out of the whole trio seems to be the most serious, well at least when it comes to school it seems so, either way she would certainly look beautiful in a tiara )