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  #41  
Old 04-13-2013, 10:16 PM
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HGD Stephanie's family have names, among the seven children, which come from various "ethnic" backgrounds, just as we often do in America. Antonia, Nathalie's daughter and Stephanie's bridesmaid, has a Latin or Italian moniker . Alain is French and Breton. Aymeric--what on earth is that, not Latin, maybe Breton. Her other sister is a version of Gail, Gaelle, I think, but I can't remember what ethnic version it is, possibly French. Nathalie, pure French. I don't remember the rest.
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  #42  
Old 04-13-2013, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mariel View Post
I never heard that Isabel meant Elizabeth. I thought it meant beautiful (bel) Isa, with Isa as a separate meaning from bel. There is a French name of Charles VI's queen, Isabeau, which is odd, since "beau" is a masculine form of "bel". Anyway, I am still wondering why Elizabeth could become Isabel or Isabelle.
You can find an explanation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel In medieval times there was a Provençal version of the name, Elisabel.
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Originally Posted by Mariel View Post
HGD Stephanie's family have names, among the seven children, which come from various "ethnic" backgrounds, just as we often do in America. Antonia, Nathalie's daughter and Stephanie's bridesmaid, has a Latin or Italian moniker . Alain is French and Breton. Aymeric--what on earth is that, not Latin, maybe Breton. Her other sister is a version of Gail, Gaelle, I think, but I can't remember what ethnic version it is, possibly French. Nathalie, pure French. I don't remember the rest.
Antonia is the French, as well as Latin and Italian version, of the name
Aymeric is a French version of the Old German name Emeric (Henrik or Henry in English), while Imre is the Hungarian version
Gaëlle is the French female version of the Breton name Gaël
Nathalie is the French version of a Latin name Natalia, meaning birth (of Christ)
All according to the French Wikipedia
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  #43  
Old 04-13-2013, 10:28 PM
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What an odd question. Given current trends maybe it should be asked if we should write names with Anglo-French-Arabic-Chinese strings. How do you write Charlene, Mette'Marit and Guillaume in Arabic and Chinese? JMHO
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  #44  
Old 04-13-2013, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
What an odd question. Given current trends maybe it should be asked if we should write names with Anglo-French-Arabic-Chinese strings. How do you write Charlene, Mette'Marit and Guillaume in Arabic and Chinese? JMHO
There is a difference between transliterate/transcribe a name written in non-Latin characters into a name written with Latin characters and to translate a name written with Latin characters in one language into another version of the same name in a different language, for example to call you by the name Admirador.ee.uu/Admiradora.ee.uu instead of AdmirerUS as your nick says.
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  #45  
Old 04-13-2013, 11:28 PM
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Wow I never knew Nicholas and Nikolai were the same name, I've seen both spellings in some Romanov books I've read and assumed to we're unrelated names.
Thanks for all those examples. When I read books on the Romanovs Nicholas' name is always spelled in the anglicized fashion, but I have never heard of anyone writing or saying Alexie's name as Alexis.
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  #46  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Wow I never knew Nicholas and Nikolai were the same name, I've seen both spellings in some Romanov books I've read and assumed to we're unrelated names.
Thanks for all those examples. When I read books on the Romanovs Nicholas' name is always spelled in the anglicized fashion, but I have never heard of anyone writing or saying Alexie's name as Alexis.
You are most welcome.
Nikolai is the only form used in Russia or the Slavic world: Nicholas is just the Anglicised version.

Tsarevich Alexei's name is rarely, if ever, used in its Anglicised form Alexis. However, I have often seen the name of Aleksey Mikhailovich of Russia (Aleksey I) written as Alexis I or Alexis of Russia.
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  #47  
Old 04-14-2013, 03:31 AM
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This thread reminds me of another post on these forums about Georgii, son of Maria Vladimorovna (of russia); someone refused to use that name and said it should be George, because Georgii (probably anglicized as Georgie) sounded too childish for an adult :-)
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  #48  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
Nikolai is the only form used in Russia or the Slavic world: Nicholas is just the Anglicised version.

Tsarevich Alexei's name is rarely, if ever, used in its Anglicised form Alexis.
Swedish usually translates the names as Nikolaj and Aleksej, although sometimes Nikolaus is used in Swedish, for example it was one of the given names of prince Eugen Napoleon Nikolaus of Sweden. (I wonder which Nikolaus he was named after, perhaps Nicholas Alexandrovich, the first fiancé of the future empress Maria Feodorovna, née princess Dagmar of Denmark, as he had died a few months before Eugen was born.)
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  #49  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:41 AM
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When did the western world (other than the Spanish press) stop translating name. It seems like before World War I, they all translate name of people no matter what language
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  #50  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by miche View Post
When did the western world (other than the Spanish press) stop translating name. It seems like before World War I, they all translate name of people no matter what language
I don't know, I was surprised to hear names are translated in other countries. The first rule in all of my language classes was... Do not translate names! I thought that was the same everywhere.
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  #51  
Old 04-14-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
I don't know, I was surprised to hear names are translated in other countries. The first rule in all of my language classes was... Do not translate names! I thought that was the same everywhere.
Names are translated in ALL countries. You also use translated names.
It's normal and necessary because of various language systems and various sets of letters.
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  #52  
Old 04-14-2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
I don't know, I was surprised to hear names are translated in other countries. The first rule in all of my language classes was... Do not translate names! I thought that was the same everywhere.
We did it in the NL too.. think of the french kings like Lodewijk XIV, or several Karel's from England or Karel de Grote etc...
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  #53  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:03 PM
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Let me clarify myself. I was thought in school whenever we worked on a text that if it contained a name we where not allowed to change it. Same thing with place names, etc.

And I hadn't thought of all the foreign kings and queens who's names had been translated. I'm not sure when or why it changed. These days, in the dutch papers, I see everyone mentioned by using their own name and not by using a translation. Perhaps it's because the world has become more global and people have more knowledge of foreign languages.
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  #54  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:25 PM
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Foreign historical royals are still translated here in Denmark.

Like Henry VIII, who to this day is consistently written as Henrik VIII.
The French kings were at least until the early 70's often written as Ludvig XIV or Ludvig XVI - that has fortunately changed.

But the Russian names are still translated to Nikolaj, Alexander or Katarina. Only the most recent historical articles and books attempt to get it right.

At least we've never translated say George III to Jørgen III!

Nowadays all current royals are known by their real name - with one notable exeption: Ex-king Konstantin (Constantine), who really ought to be spelled Konstantinos II.

I guess it will take another generation before royals are finally known by their real name as people are getting so much more globalized.
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  #55  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
These days, in the dutch papers, I see everyone mentioned by using their own name and not by using a translation. Perhaps it's because the world has become more global and people have more knowledge of foreign languages.
Translation of first names has happened a lot less lately but for instance translation from cyrillic to western alphabet still has many variations.... in dutch a lot of russian last names are changed to a point where people wouldn't recognize there own name
Fortunately for royals last names aren't used often, but f.i. in sports it's tragic
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  #56  
Old 04-14-2013, 03:10 PM
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It depends who the text is written about. Names with normally be translated into Dutch, except when this would mean that people will mot know who it is about. At least, that is that was the rule during my history-classes at university.
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  #57  
Old 04-15-2013, 12:50 PM
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Names are translated in ALL countries. You also use translated names.
It's normal and necessary because of various language systems and various sets of letters.
Names may be translated into Lithuanian-souding names in Lithuania, and into Spanish-sounding names in Spanish-speaking countries, but it's not true for ALL countries, for example in Sweden we don't translate foreign names written with the Latin alphabet into Swedish-souding names, prince Charles is prins Charles and not prins Karl, king Juan Carlos is kung Juan Carlos and not kung Johan Karl, and so on.

When it comes to names written with a non-Latin alphabet they are transliterated, and not translated, even if the words may sound similar and look similar in writing, they do mean two different things.

In Sweden the change of the names of foreign-born members of the Swedish royal family ended with princess Margaret of Connaught, her name was Swedified into crown princess Margareta, while lady Louise Mountbatten kept her given name (had it been Swedified it would have been Lovisa) when she became crown princess in 1923.
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  #58  
Old 04-15-2013, 01:20 PM
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Thanks for your answers, Meraude. It seems that all of Stephanie's family have French names. I would think Antonia would be Antoine, however, in French. But probably French speakers have some names which are not translated but merely traditional, thus, Antonia rather than Antoine. Luxembourg is a fascinating little country where both a Germanic and a French language are common, and thus names of royal people can be French or Germanic or neither, as in Maria Teresa.
We are like this in America with our names. Our names come from many sources.
And some of them are made up out of whole cloth. My name Mariel is made up by my parents to honor my grandma Mary Elliott. But in some countries (France, South America) the name Mariel is used (I hear) as a shortened form of Maria Elena, or in French as a diminuative of Marie, but the "el" suffix, I believe, is actually from a German root, as "Hansel" and "Gretel". So names can come from various sources, and in America, they really do, a lot!
My son speaks of French as "goofed up Latin". He studied Latin seven years in middle school and high school, just because he found it interesting to do so. The chopping off of end-sounds or sounds of suffixes in French is certainly "goofy". But cute-goofy.
I had a French speaking Canadian friend who insisted on pronouncing my name Mariel as "Mar-AI" with the "el" pronounced "AI".
I think this may be bastard French but anyway, that's how it was.
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  #59  
Old 04-15-2013, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
Names may be translated into Lithuanian-souding names in Lithuania, and into Spanish-sounding names in Spanish-speaking countries, but it's not true for ALL countries, for example in Sweden we don't translate foreign names written with the Latin alphabet into Swedish-souding names, prince Charles is prins Charles and not prins Karl, king Juan Carlos is kung Juan Carlos and not kung Johan Karl, and so on.

When it comes to names written with a non-Latin alphabet they are transliterated, and not translated, even if the words may sound similar and look similar in writing, they do mean two different things.

In Sweden the change of the names of foreign-born members of the Swedish royal family ended with princess Margaret of Connaught, her name was Swedified into crown princess Margareta, while lady Louise Mountbatten kept her given name (had it been Swedified it would have been Lovisa) when she became crown princess in 1923.
prince Charles is prins Charles
Is 'Ch' in Sweden language said as 'Ch' in English?
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  #60  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mariel View Post
Thanks for your answers, Meraude. It seems that all of Stephanie's family have French names. I would think Antonia would be Antoine, however, in French. But probably French speakers have some names which are not translated but merely traditional, thus, Antonia rather than Antoine.
As Antoine is a male name in France, everyone would be mistaken the poor girl for a boy if she had been named Antoine The female variants are either Antonia or Antoinette.
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prince Charles is prins Charles
Is 'Ch' in Sweden language said as 'Ch' in English?
Most Swedes would pronounce (or at least try to pronounce) the name Charles as it's done in English. As for ch in Swedish, it's one of the at least 16 different variants of how to spell the sje-sound, pronounced as /ɧ/in Swedish.
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