The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[Betsypaige]

I mean isn't that literally with everything on the planet? Lol. Of course not all the 330M+ Americans will care. Nor do they need to. As with all in life, some will be interested and some will not be. Just need enough to keep it afloat. And time will tell how that shapes out.

Indeed. We’ll also see if the interest in Harry and Meghan - at least by potential business partners - continues. Their life in America has just begun. I do think that they run the risk of becoming unlikeable to those who don’t have an opinion yet...likeability is an important quality in the States.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic. I don’t buy for a minute that she hadn’t read up on the RF and specifically Harry. Who wears the perfume of someone’s deceased mother on a first date with them? I can’t remember the specifics, but smell is linked to memory and is very deep and primal. To me that was manipulative of Meg .

Did M really do that? Honestly, that’s highly disturbing to me.

If it is a bone of contention of Harry's that his brother and his brother's family seem to be treated so much "better", then to me, it seems like he's also forgetting or not seeing that there is a lot more weight on William's shoulders as the heir to the heir to the throne and the expectations and the responsibilities that William faces are much greater than Harry will ever have to face and with the passage of time, will increase as he steps into the role of the Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge (and possibly the role of The Prince of Wales) and then, when the time comes, King.

From what we're seeing from Harry right now, it almost seems like a blessing that the personalities of the two brothers weren't reversed as I don't think Harry is in any shape to take on the roles that his brother has inherited. Harry seems to feel entitled to all that William has but hasn't thought out that being in a position that William is in carries a boatload of expectations and responsibilities and as such, cannot have a "me first" attitude to the world.

Excellent points. William is, at some point, not going to be able to spend at much time at home as he’d like. His future job is not 9-5, it’s not one where he can take a vacation from...I don’t envy any future monarch.

Funnily, HM was also quite serious even as a young princess...William was Naughty Wills as a tot, lol. I’m not sure when he was informed about his destiny, but I wonder if he became more serious after he was told ...

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

It occurs to me that the media and the royal press offices together must have been protecting Harry quite a bit throughout his twenties and early thirties.

The British media has always danced around the issue of Harry and drug use, even as early as the 2002 story. While critics of Charles like to use the 2002 story as an example of Charles throwing Harry under the bus to paint himself as a good father (and certainly there was an element of this), others who read between the lines of that story in the years following have, I think, always quietly questioned how much of it was Charles's press office doing rather a generous deal to protect Harry from a more damaging story coming out.

Since then, there have often been throwaway lines in stories- notably the Vegas story- about how Harry was present in places where large quantities of drugs were being consumed, without ever accusing him of anything. I don't believe for a moment that it wasn't an open secret that he was consuming them himself.

Nor do I believe that media- and not only tabloid media, but mainstream British media as well- was not approaching the Royal Family press offices, whoever was responsible for Harry at various points over the years, and pushing to run these stories. Any outlet who broke this story would have had a major scoop. Which must mean that the press offices were intervening to keep these stories being published.

I think Harry is experiencing some varied recollections about the support he may or may not have received in his family and from the institution over the years in regards the media.

Did M really do that? Honestly, that’s highly disturbing to me.

That rumor originated with Samantha Markle, who would have no way to know such a thing.

 

[Betsypaige]

That rumor originated with Samantha Markle, who would have no way to know such a thing.

No, she wouldn’t I’d think...ok, I’m glad, because anyone who’d do that has issues.

 

[camelot23ca]

Given the rumours swirling since I was born that Andrew was HM's favourite, I find it hard to believe that Harry didn't know family and work were two different beasts. How many times had he seen Andrew, Anne or Edward walk before his father? I'd wager zero.


I notice that Harry and Meghan's problems with hierarchy only seem to involve those above them. They never noticed the injustice of those beneath them being forced to take a backseat to them. I wasn't around at the time of their wedding but was there any peep from Harry or Meghan for having Eugenie's wedding pushed behind? Or was it something that went without saying, as befits the second son of HRH The Prince of Wales? But when HM, Charles and William took precedence over Harry and Meghan - oh it was so unfair!


Did Harry ever support Andrew in his attempts to get royal parts for Harry's cousins? No? I bet he thought it perfectly fitting that his cousins were lesser in the hierarchy than him despite being "other grandchildren". But when it was his own child, it was suddenly different.


Harry grew up in a family and Firm of hierarchy. He saw that his uncles and aunt were loved and valued but no, it wasn't enough for him. He wanted to be equal or he'd throw a tantrum.

Diana and Charles had what I would consider to be the most awkward royal family configuration - only two children, close in age and of the same sex. They made a point of minimizing the difference between the boys when they were children, maybe thinking it was kinder to Harry, and then Diana died, which likely led to everyone being reluctant to take measures to correct Harry’s view of royal life, and his place in it.

It can’t be easy being the only Spare, but it makes things harder in the long run if the Heir and the Spare are treated as a matched set into young adulthood.

Harry knew his extended family was hierarchical but he didn’t experience that within his immediate family in any substantive way until he and his brother were both married. If anything he’d had the best of both worlds up until then - the indulged younger son with almost all the privileges of the firstborn.

 

[UglyAmerican]

Indeed. We’ll also see if the interest in Harry and Meghan - at least by potential business partners - continues. Their life in America has just begun. I do think that they run the risk of becoming unlikeable to those who don’t have an opinion yet...likeability is an important quality in the States.

If I were contemplating a legitimate business deal (as opposed to a tabloid interview) with someone, and then that someone did what Harry just did here, I'd run for the hills. His family may feel they don't have a choice about dealing with him, but potential business partners do, and most are savvy enough to know that someone so unbalanced will be more trouble than they're worth. If something they do rubs Harry the wrong way, he's likely to go on tv saying "So-and-so underpaid me because they don't like that I have a black wife." No one needs that in their life, personally or professionally.

Oh, and apparently the perfume thing came from Samantha Markle, so take that for what it's worth. It does sound like the sort of thing she might do, but I can't imagine Meghan was discussing her choice of perfumes with Samantha.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Both Harry and Meghan implied on Oprah Part 1 that attitudes at the Palace toward them changed drastically for the worse after the Sussexes wildly successful tour of the South Pacific...their first tour after the wedding.

Of the many exaggerations and outright untruths told by them in that interview I believe that there is a kernel of truth in that.

I vividly remember hearing and reading
online and even here at TRF about jealousy and resentment from the Cambridge camp and their adherents in the Palace-if not from the couple themselves. Nothing and no one should be allowed to outshine the future king and queen.

The implication being that Harry and Meghan were the more glamorous, interesting and "woke" face of the BRF compared to the Cambridges. I don't have any idea what was done to bring them back down to earth but..Harry's seeming resentment that he was used to prop the less dazzling members of the BRF makes sense to me when viewed from that perspective.

And William and Kate's profile as the steady, reliable future of the House of Windsor has never been higher since Megxit.

So... if there are any winners in this entire messy saga it's the courtiers who felt threatened by the possibility of Harry and Meghan eclipsing the heir to the throne and his wife.

 

[Osipi]

Excellent points. William is, at some point, not going to be able to spend at much time at home as he’d like. His future job is not 9-5, it’s not one where he can take a vacation from...I don’t envy any future monarch.

Funnily, HM was also quite serious even as a young princess...William was Naughty Wills as a tot, lol. I’m not sure when he was informed about his destiny, but I wonder if he became more serious after he was told ...

If I was asked (and of course I wasn't) when William really realized the road that lay ahead for him in his adult years, I would have to guess it was when William was at Eton and used to walk across the bridge over to Windsor Castle for Sunday tea with the Queen and what was termed as "king lessons". It's possible too that Harry witnessed this and saw it as "favoritism" to William over himself without understanding the reasons William was being prepared.

 

[Moran]

Diana and Charles had what I would consider to be the most awkward royal family configuration - only two children, close in age and of the same sex. They made a point of minimizing the difference between the boys when they were children, maybe thinking it was kinder to Harry, and then Diana died, which likely led to everyone being reluctant to take measures to correct Harry’s view of royal life, and his place in it.

It can’t be easy being the only Spare, but it makes things harder in the long run if the Heir and the Spare are treated as a matched set into young adulthood.

Harry knew his extended family was hierarchical but he didn’t experience that within his immediate family in any substantive way until he and his brother were both married. If anything he’d had the best of both worlds up until then - the indulged younger son with almost all the privileges of the firstborn.

But what did he experience after he got married? If anything, the RF bent over backwards to accommodate Meghan. She went to Sandringham while still not married to Harry. She got significant patronages straight away. She got a solo engagement with HM pretty much immediately after the wedding (Catherine had to wait for long). They got important oversea tours. What they didn't get was a court of their own, a residence equal to William and Catherine - who didn't start living in Kensigngton straight away either - and a style to which Archie wasn't entitled anyway.


Did he really think he'd always be equal to William in all things? I'm genuinely baffled. He couldn't have been unaware that a dual monarchy wasn't a thing. A state can only have one head, be it in name or deed.


I don't think treating the brothers as basically equal did them many favours in their early youth - but I don't think treating him and Meghan as a couple equal to the Cambridges in everything but the things that were very representative to the state was useful either. I believe Harry and Meghan believed they'd get the style for Archie because of all the times the BP had bent the rules, spoken or not, for Meghan.




ETA: Harry didn't see his uncles and aunt as children being treated differently than his father to draw comparisons between his own treatment vs. William's. He only knew them as adults - and as I said, the rumours of PA being HM's favourite has been around since forever. He couldn't have failed to realize that this was his future as well.

 

[UglyAmerican]

It occurs to me that the media and the royal press offices together must have been protecting Harry quite a bit throughout his twenties and early thirties.

The British media has always danced around the issue of Harry and drug use, even as early as the 2002 story. While critics of Charles like to use the 2002 story as an example of Charles throwing Harry under the bus to paint himself as a good father (and certainly there was an element of this), others who read between the lines of that story in the years following have, I think, always quietly questioned how much of it was Charles's press office doing rather a generous deal to protect Harry from a more damaging story coming out.

Since then, there have often been throwaway lines in stories- notably the Vegas story- about how Harry was present in places where large quantities of drugs were being consumed, without ever accusing him of anything. I don't believe for a moment that it wasn't an open secret that he was consuming them himself.

Nor do I believe that media- and not only tabloid media, but mainstream British media as well- was not approaching the Royal Family press offices, whoever was responsible for Harry at various points over the years, and pushing to run these stories. Any outlet who broke this story would have had a major scoop. Which must mean that the press offices were intervening to keep these stories being published.

I think Harry is experiencing some varied recollections about the support he may or may not have received in his family and from the institution over the years in regards the media.

This is sort of backhanded reasoning, but do you think that's behind their belief that the family should have protected Meghan better? Harry's thought process might have been "I did so many really awful things for years on end, and the Firm always managed to keep it out of the media. And now they can't/won't even stop the press from skewering Meghan over an avocado?" It's a fair question, really. I've criticized that line of reasoning before, because I didn't believe Charles or the Queen or anyone else had that sort of power. But if Harry knows perfectly well that they did, because they did it all the time for him to cover up his far worse behavior, then that would be different... at least in his mind.

There are still about a million differences in the two situations, but they could easily have been lost on Harry.

 

[Moran]

Both Harry and Meghan implied on Oprah Part 1 that attitudes at the Palace toward them changed drastically for the worse after the Sussexes wildly successful tour of the South Pacific...their first tour after the wedding.

Don't forget it was the tour during which the first complaints of Meghan's behavior towards the staff emerged. There might be an explanation other than jealousy on anyone's side.



Given the fact that the alleged accidents are now investigated and Harry and Meghan are strangely silent about the allegations after raising high hell about basically everything else under the sun, I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the Palace changed their attitude in the wake of some serious offences.

 

[lirienn]

Does anyone else feel like I do - almost schizophrenic because what Harry keeps saying is changing and I'm going crazy. Basically nothing in his stories sticks.
Also a huge question - what's their PR team doing? What's Meghan role in this? Why is Harry so ballistic and full on? Is the PR team exploiting them as well but for what reason since they want a good rep for Harry? Harry made a few offensive and terrible comments which will be remembered forever. He also appeared as a lose canon.

 

[Betsypaige]

If I were contemplating a legitimate business deal (as opposed to a tabloid interview) with someone, and then that someone did what Harry just did here, I'd run for the hills. His family may feel they don't have a choice about dealing with him, but potential business partners do, and most are savvy enough to know that someone so unbalanced will be more trouble than they're worth. If something they do rubs Harry the wrong way, he's likely to go on tv saying "So-and-so underpaid me because they don't like that I have a black wife." No one needs that in their life, personally or professionally.

Oh, and apparently the perfume thing came from Samantha Markle, so take that for what it's worth. It does sound like the sort of thing she might do, but I can't imagine Meghan was discussing her choice of perfumes with Samantha.

That’s a good point ...There’s an expression “if you lie down with dogs, you’ll get up with fleas” - I think anyone who does business with Harry and Meghan need to understand that. Maybe the Sussexes won’t directly do anything negative in business relationships, but they are unpredictable, and it could be that they say or do things that the brand is uncomfortable with.

 

[Heavs]

But what did he experience after he got married? If anything, the RF bent over backwards to accommodate Meghan. She went to Sandringham while still not married to Harry. She got significant patronages straight away. She got a solo engagement with HM pretty much immediately after the wedding (Catherine had to wait for long). They got important oversea tours. What they didn't get was a court of their own, a residence equal to William and Catherine - who didn't start living in Kensigngton straight away either - and a style to which Archie wasn't entitled anyway.


Did he really think he'd always be equal to William in all things? I'm genuinely baffled. He couldn't have been unaware that a dual monarchy wasn't a thing. A state can only have one head, be it in name or deed.


I don't think treating the brothers as basically equal did them many favours in their early youth - but I don't think treating him and Meghan as a couple equal to the Cambridges in everything but the things that were very representative to the state was useful either. I believe Harry and Meghan believed they'd get the style for Archie because of all the times the BP had bent the rules, spoken or not, for Meghan.

From what they themselves have said and what they think they're entitled to (taxpayer/Charles funded security forever, titles for children even though they've trashed the family and adulation by all and the palace to silence anyone that doesn't fall in line - somehow.) yes I do.

It's genuinely bewildering that any kind of adult thinks that but by their own words they do.

Meghan was given a lot of perks straight away and apparently KP did try and make sure she was surrounded by liberal Americans who knew about the UK and the BRF (because they knew the current situation was a possibility) and she took absolutely no notice and wanted things done her way, only talking to Harry and her own team who knew very little about UK/BRF.

And to top it all off Harry has admitted he doesn't want to be king, has now said he hated all BRF duties even though he logged less than his elderly relatives every year and hates everything about both his family and the institution and can't even be in London any more.

But still feels entitled to all the perks. It's mind boggling but yes I think they thought they could become almost co-monarchs with a liberal alt court at Windsor with all the perks and none of the boring stuff and Archie would get a title right away because they're the new superstars.

ETA: This morning I listed out many (but not all) of the sequence of what they said and wanted with their own mouths/press releases and it makes no sense that anyone would think this way even if they lived a privileged life.

Forget The Little Mermaid, they're more like The Emperor's New Groove or the Emperor's New Clothes.

 

[Moran]

I was afraid you'd say it, Heavs. This is... deeply troubling.

 

[Denville]

From what they themselves have said and what they think they're entitled to (taxpayer/Charles funded security forever, titles for children even though they've trashed the family and adulation by all and the palace to silence anyone that doesn't fall in line - somehow.) yes I do.

And to top it all off Harry has admitted he doesn't want to be king, has now said he hated all BRF duties even though he logged less than his elderly relatives every year and hates everything about both his family and the institution and can't even be in London any more.

But still feels entitled to all the perks. It's mind boggling but yes I think they thought they could become almost co-monarchs with a liberal alt court at Windsor with all the perks and none of the boring stuff and Archie would get a title right away because they're the new superstars.

and of course the time off in the US making money (when the whim took them). I suppose they think that Will and Kate can do the boring Prince and Princess stuff, and they can hop away to LA and do a benefit or narrate a documentary and make a bit of cash.. while William opens a school... but ever now and again Harry might just go off on a nice tour with his wife....

 

[Curryong]

But what did he experience after he got married? If anything, the RF bent over backwards to accommodate Meghan. She went to Sandringham while still not married to Harry. She got significant patronages straight away. She got a solo engagement with HM pretty much immediately after the wedding (Catherine had to wait for long). They got important oversea tours. What they didn't get was a court of their own, a residence equal to William and Catherine - who didn't start living in Kensigngton straight away either - and a style to which Archie wasn't entitled anyway.


Did he really think he'd always be equal to William in all things? I'm genuinely baffled. He couldn't have been unaware that a dual monarchy wasn't a thing. A state can only have one head, be it in name or deed.


I don't think treating the brothers as basically equal did them many favours in their early youth - but I don't think treating him and Meghan as a couple equal to the Cambridges in everything but the things that were very representative to the state was useful either. I believe Harry and Meghan believed they'd get the style for Archie because of all the times the BP had bent the rules, spoken or not, for Meghan.

Meghan was invited to Sandringham for Xmas before her wedding for similar reasons to Sophie’s father being invited . She had nobody in Britain to enjoy Xmas with and would have had to fly home. Even then it was rumoured that Charles had to request Kate and William to host the couple at Anmer. They didn’t offer, apparently.


Meghan didn’t ‘get significant patronages straight away. Her four patronages were announced in October 2018, about five months after her May wedding, and approximately the same period of time as Kate waited after her wedding to William. She didn’t go ‘immediately’ out on an engagement with the Queen either. That was in June 2018. Her first engagement (with Harry) after the wedding was attending Charles’s garden party.


https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...910/meghan-markle-royal-patronages-charities/


As far as accommodation was concerned the Sussexes got five bedroomed Frogmore Cottage, which the tabloid Press never stopped complaining about ref taxpayer expense. They apparently were offered, very tardily, Apartment 1 at KP, in spite of the fact that the Gloucesters had been willing to move out for months, renovations weren’t begun for a very long time after their wedding.


However by then they were expecting Archie and relationships with the Cambridges in the next apartment weren’t good.


If the Press wasn’t impressed about the FC expense (‘to the taxpayers’ though it was in fact Sovereign Grant money) one can imagine the faux rage that would have erupted in that direction when it was found the renovations at Apartment 1 (asbestos removal etc) was to cost over 3 million pounds.

 

[Moran]

Slightly OT: One of the things I remember most vividly from the videos with George VI's funeral was how out of place the young Duke of Kent looked to me. He was just 16 or 17, I think. He looked like a child next to his uncles to whom he was, theoretically, equal but he was carrying himself with dignity. It was then when it struck me: as young as the Queen was, some of her designated supporting cast was even younger and meant to be used in service and then watch as they're replaced by the younger royals of the next day. That's how it was for the then young Duke, that was how it was meant to be for Harry. It wasn't anything personal. And I never heard of the Duke or Princess Alexandra complaining.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, Edward was there as a nephew of George VI at his funeral. However, at 16 or 17 he was at least three and a half years older than Harry at the time of Diana’s funeral. At that age it makes a difference, especially when the dead person is a beloved parent. And the early 1950s was a very different time in every way to the late 1990s.

 

[AC21091968]

Slightly OT: One of the things I remember most vividly from the videos with George VI's funeral was how out of place the young Duke of Kent looked to me. He was just 16 or 17, I think. He looked like a child next to his uncles to whom he was, theoretically, equal but he was carrying himself with dignity. It was then when it struck me: as young as the Queen was, some of her designated supporting cast was even younger and meant to be used in service and then watch as they're replaced by the younger royals of the next day. That's how it was for the then young Duke, that was how it was meant to be for Harry. It wasn't anything personal. And I never heard of the Duke or Princess Alexandra complaining.

Speaking of the devil, in one of the Telegraph article, Princess Alexandra was mentioned not just about losing her father when she was a child, but also the times when her daughter Marina went off rails.

What keeps Princess Alexandra (to pick another random royal) awake, awake at night? What angst did she go through when her father, the Duke of Kent, was killed in a plane crash in 1942, when she was aged six? What morass of feelings did she experience when her daughter, Marina, went off the rails in her teens, when mother and daughter were alleged to have engaged in furious rows? I honestly have no idea, which is perhaps related to the fact she hasn’t*signed a deal with Netflix, and indeed doesn’t tend to give interviews at all.

Between insulting his family and blasting the First Amendment - has Prince Harry lost his grip on reality?
Claiming the world is subject to greater suffering suggests Harry isn’t just blinkered - he's blindfolded
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...asting-first-amendment-has-prince-harry-lost/

Archived link: https://archive.ph/Zb7Cp#selection-1207.0-1245.382

Prince Philip is another royal who did not have a great childhood with family exile from Greece, parent separation, death of his sister and her family, live in several different places with relatives (almost like a parcel). All of this happened before he was an adult and he did not publicly complained about his upbringing.

 

[UglyAmerican]

Harry was the one who chose to move into Nottingham Cottage, in the first place, years before he met Meghan. They could have just stayed there, but apparently didn't want to. It's smaller than Frogmore, but two bedrooms are enough for a couple and an infant. Normal people do it all the time. William and Kate lived there for some time with George before moving into 1A.

I also don't see what was so bad about Frogmore, why they wanted it in the first place if it was so bad, or why the elderly Gloucesters should move just because their cousin's grandson (or whatever the relation is) married a woman who didn't like the accommodations he'd chosen for himself. It was good of them to offer, but the proper response was "Oh, no, please don't trouble yourselves!"

 

[Kaye1850]

Diana and Charles had what I would consider to be the most awkward royal family configuration - only two children, close in age and of the same sex.....

It can’t be easy being the only Spare, but it makes things harder in the long run if the Heir and the Spare are treated as a matched set into young adulthood.

Then spare a thought for the twin sons of Turnip Toffs Rose Hanbury and husband David, Marquess of Cholmondeley. These boys were delivered by C section, so no “first born” to inherit title and lands. Who would be heir? Why, the one who weighed more of course. Think the future holds any resentment for these siblings?

 

[Moran]

Yes, Edward was there as a nephew of George VI at his funeral. However, at 16 or 17 he was at least three and a half years older than Harry at the time of Diana’s funeral. At that age it makes a difference, especially when the dead person is a beloved parent. And the early 1950s was a very different time in every way to the late 1990s.

I'm not making a comparison with Diana's funeral at all. Where did you get this? I was saying that to me, it looked strange that a boy this age was already a royal duke, carrying out duties, walking behind a king's coffin, his entire life mapped out for him and it included serving and then fading. The only mentioning of Harry I made was that I'm not aware of the Duke of Kent ever complaining that he had it so hard because he had to take a back seat compared to other members of the family. BTW, I think before George VI died, he was also sixth in the line of succession after his cousins Elizabeth and Margaret and his Gloucester uncle and cousins. Somehow, he managed not to be publicly indignant about Margaret taking precedence.


Edit: no, eighth. I somehow failed to include Charles and Anne, of course. He was only sixth before they were born.

 

[Curryong]

Harry was the one who chose to move into Nottingham Cottage, in the first place, years before he met Meghan. They could have just stayed there, but apparently didn't want to. It's smaller than Frogmore, but two bedrooms are enough for a couple and an infant. Normal people do it all the time. William and Kate lived there for some time with George before moving into 1A.

I also don't see what was so bad about Frogmore, why they wanted it in the first place if it was so bad, or why the elderly Gloucesters should move just because their cousin's grandson (or whatever the relation is) married a woman who didn't like the accommodations he'd chosen for himself. It was good of them to offer, but the proper response was "Oh, no, please don't trouble yourselves!"

Who says Harry and Meghan really wanted Frogmore Cottage? It was offered to them by the Queen and so they accepted it. Neither of them chose it.


They did want to live in Oxfordshire in the farmhouse they rented but drones and security issues made it impossible. Supposedly security was considered a problem.


Before William and Kate’s wedding there were many stories in the Press that the Gloucesters had offered to move out then, but the apartment next door was renovated for the Cambridges instead. So the Gloucesters had apparently been thinking about downsizing for a long time. And it was a very very short period that the Cambridges lived in Nott Cott. Their accomodation in Anglesey was not small and the apartment at 1A certainly isn’t.

 

[Heavs]

Harry was the one who chose to move into Nottingham Cottage, in the first place, years before he met Meghan. They could have just stayed there, but apparently didn't want to. It's smaller than Frogmore, but two bedrooms are enough for a couple and an infant. Normal people do it all the time. William and Kate lived there for some time with George before moving into 1A.

I also don't see what was so bad about Frogmore, why they wanted it in the first place if it was so bad, or why the elderly Gloucesters should move just because their cousin's grandson (or whatever the relation is) married a woman who didn't like the accommodations he'd chosen for himself. It was good of them to offer, but the proper response was "Oh, no, please don't trouble yourselves!"

There was also talk of them eventually being gifted an estate in Wales or the borders that the Duchy owned and had been thought of for W&K before they chose Amner.

It would be interesting to know if they didn't want somewhere less accessible than Windsor or those plans were coming in later years or shelved for a different reason.

Given that Charles was paying for them after they left and was rumoured to give them a hand with the mansion as a last golden goodbye, I see no reason why he wouldn't have been persuaded to help them out with a country estate eventually.

The rumours are that the problems came when they wanted Frogmore House which was a no go or a large apartment in the castle itself.

I think the issues with their alleged dissatisfaction with Frogmore Cottage also largely stem from being told that they couldn't have their court at Windsor and it became a symbol of that resentment. A large-ish house by many standards but a cottage not a court.

Meghan didn’t ‘get significant patronages straight away. Her four patronages were announced in October 2018, about five months after her May wedding, and approximately the same period of time as Kate waited after her wedding to William. She didn’t go ‘immediately’ out on an engagement with the Queen either. That was in June 2018. Her first engagement (with Harry) after the wedding was attending Charles’s garden party.

I'd say less than a month after their wedding (19th May -14th June) for a joint engagement with HM was "immediately" in royal terms. Kate waited a year and at the time everyone, including me, said it was a sign of HM's confidence in Meghan and Meghan's willingness to jump right in. Now of course there are articles about how HM shouldn't have taken "superstar" Meghan to the opening of a provincial bridge.

They were also given significant Commonwealth roles soon after their wedding which bolstered the idea that they were being groomed as the "Commonwealth Couple" and she was directly given the National Theatre and the ACU from HM less than a year after her wedding around the time they started having talks with Quibi. Those were seen as big votes of confidence in her and HM trying to cater to her strengths and interests rather than having her open a leisure centre somewhere.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

That rumor originated with Samantha Markle, who would have no way to know such a thing.

She may have inferred it from the fact that on her old blog, The Tig, Meghan said one of her absolute favorite scents was Jo Malone's Wild Bluebell(launched in 2011 and later relaunched as a special edition). One of Diana's go to fragrances was Penhaligon's Bluebell. Quite a coincidence because there are very few bluebell fragrances.

 

[Betsypaige]

and of course the time off in the US making money (when the whim took them). I suppose they think that Will and Kate can do the boring Prince and Princess stuff, and they can hop away to LA and do a benefit or narrate a documentary and make a bit of cash.. while William opens a school... but ever now and again Harry might just go off on a nice tour with his wife....

The difference between William (and the rest of the family) and Harry in terms of how they see the function of the Monarchy is stark. The monarch, the BRF, can be a force for good - even the "little" things, like simply meeting the public, can lift spirits. Then of course there are their pet projects they get involved in that really do help people. Harry thinks this stuff is boring, he's tired of meeting ordinary Joes and Janes - he just wants to hang out with billionaire philanthropists and Hollywood movers and shakers.

 

[Moran]

Before William and Kate’s wedding there were many stories in the Press that the Gloucesters had offered to move out then, but the apartment next door was renovated for the Cambridges instead. So the Gloucesters had apparently been thinking about downsizing for a long time.

Is this so, really? Because I can point you at many stories in the press about Meghan being rude, disagreeable, lacking basic manners (on this one, I fully agree, BTW), abusive of her staff, etc. They come from the same press.


If we disbelieve gossip press on principle, we shouldn't do it only for certain publications. If gossip rags cannot be trusted to tell us the truth on Meghan, they can't be trusted to tell us the truth on a pair of aging royals who aren't known to share their intentions left and right.

 

[Fem]

Meghan didn’t ‘get significant patronages straight away. Her four patronages were announced in October 2018, about five months after her May wedding, and approximately the same period of time as Kate waited after her wedding to William. She didn’t go ‘immediately’ out on an engagement with the Queen either. That was in June 2018. Her first engagement (with Harry) after the wedding was attending Charles’s garden party.

In the BRF terms, it was "immediately" though. The machine works at its own pace and no one can deny that pace was sped up for Meghan specifically. An engagement with the Queen a month after the wedding. A number of significant patronages for Meghan even though her whole gig with the Royal Family was around 1.5 year. That IS straight away in BRF terms.

We might not agree whether it was the right or wrong thing to do, whether Meghan should've had to work up for the patronages and the join engagement with HMQ, but we can't deny it happened.

One thing that bothers me is Harry's thinking that he's admitted to that he was/is honestly afraid of losing the woman that he wants to spend the rest of his life with. I'm sincerely starting to wonder if the Harry we're seeing right now is the Harry he feels he needs to be to hold onto the relationship he has. It's not uncommon for someone to feel that in order to be attractive and worthy in someone else's eyes, they have to be the kind of person that they think the other person wants. In the process of doing this, they lose all sense of themselves and who they really are.

It stands out to me that there is a Harry before Meghan and a Harry after Meghan. What we don't know and it comfuzzles us is who is the real Harry.

I think Meghan's influence of Harry is bigger than most of us even dared to speculate - and his own words seem to be a confirmation of it. Even if some, like the therapy bit, seem to be a lie/over-exaggeration.

It was Meghan who got him into therapy, it was Meghan who helped him realize there's more to life, he wouldn't leave if it wasn't for Meghan, Meghan opened his eyes, Meghan, Meghan, Meghan... Combine that with Harry's need to feel WORTHY of Meghan, and the picture is not healthy at all. He doesn't seem happy, he doesn't seem to be living his best life, he seems angry and hurt and sad and confused, lashing out at everyone.

I'm wondering if the perceived wrong-doing to Meghan (from BRF, of course) is not the main issue here. Not the parenting or the life or the work, but the way no one from BRF wants to apologize to his wife, who suffered a great deal.

Also, IF (because it's hard for me to believe that) this really happened like that, saying to someone "hey, I'm thinking about killing myself, but I don't want to do this, because you would lose another woman you love in your life" is so awful, hurtful and manipulative I want to yell at walls. Lord. You don't do that to people, not people you love, you don't put that burden on them.

 

[UglyAmerican]

Who says Harry and Meghan really wanted Frogmore Cottage? It was offered to them by the Queen and so they accepted it. Neither of them chose it.


They did want to live in Oxfordshire in the farmhouse they rented but drones and security issues made it impossible. Supposedly security was considered a problem.


Before William and Kate’s wedding there were many stories in the Press that the Gloucesters had offered to move out then, but the apartment next door was renovated for the Cambridges instead. So the Gloucesters had apparently been thinking about downsizing for a long time. And it was a very very short period that the Cambridges lived in Nott Cott. Their accomodation in Anglesey was not small and the apartment at 1A certainly isn’t.

I'm assuming that they weren't directly ordered to vacate Nott Cott and move to Frogmore. If they had the choice of remaining in Nott Cott and chose to move to Frogmore, that was their choice. I imagine Harry could have gone somewhere other than Nott Cott in the first place, or they could have held off on marriage and children until they had arranged housing they considered suitable. (Normal people do that all the time, too, just like they raise children in two-bedroom homes.) They chose not to, so they got whatever was available. There's nothing wrong with that choice, but it's still a choice, with predictable consequences that it was silly for them to get offended over.

There were seven or eight years between William's and Harry's weddings during which the Gloucesters could have downsized if they'd truly wanted to for their own reasons. They didn't, presumably because they didn't want to at that time. Nothing that involved anyone else moving should ever have been on the table.

 

[camelot23ca]

Both Harry and Meghan implied on Oprah Part 1 that attitudes at the Palace toward them changed drastically for the worse after the Sussexes wildly successful tour of the South Pacific...their first tour after the wedding.

Of the many exaggerations and outright untruths told by them in that interview I believe that there is a kernel of truth in that.

I vividly remember hearing and reading
online and even here at TRF about jealousy and resentment from the Cambridge camp and their adherents in the Palace-if not from the couple themselves. Nothing and no one should be allowed to outshine the future king and queen.

The implication being that Harry and Meghan were the more glamorous, interesting and "woke" face of the BRF compared to the Cambridges. I don't have any idea what was done to bring them back down to earth but..Harry's seeming resentment that he was used to prop the less dazzling members of the BRF makes sense to me when viewed from that perspective.

And William and Kate's profile as the steady, reliable future of the House of Windsor has never been higher since Megxit.

So... if there are any winners in this entire messy saga it's the courtiers who felt threatened by the possibility of Harry and Meghan eclipsing the heir to the throne and his wife.

I would argue Harry and Meghan’s tour wasn’t any more wildly successful than William and Kate’s tour of Canada.

I think there was a lot of what I would call revisionist reporting going on by elements of particularly the American press about whatever Meghan and Harry did early on, but, you know, I was in Canada during William and Kate’s tour and the crowds were very big, and very excited. The media coverage, including from the seemingly forgetful American outlets, was non stop, and ecstatic. And I imagine the same could have been said about Charles and Diana, The Queen and DoE, probably even Andrew and Sarah back in the day.

So I doubt William and Kate or their team were threatened by the success of the Sussexes’ tour. What I think they may have found worrisome was Harry and Meghan buying into their own press, and showing signs of trying to go down a path that William had enough of in his dealings with his mother. Harry has become increasingly transparent in his attempts to turn himself and Meghan into the two for one version of Diana. Never mind that the days of that kind of celebrity are gone, never mind that the two of them put together don’t have anything like Diana’s charisma, never mind the fact that they were never going to be anything more than supporting players in the BRF. And certainly never mind all the heartache that Diana’s own similar manipulations caused her and her sons.