The Chances of Restoration of Monarchy in Iran


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All in all I think the only thing us monarchists can do right now for Iran is wait and keep our fingers crossed. Wow you guys made me change my opinion of a possible restoration in Iran, congrats friends :flowers:

But still I honestly think the current government is going to have to go out in a combination of the terms of the opposition and the terms of the government itself. When the Libyan and Iraqi dictatorships were overthrown we got a power vacuum in both nations that led to the creation of ISIS and a very fractured Libya that is stuck in limbo between a republic, a federal state, balkanization, a theocracy and a constitutional monarchy so Iran would have to be treated with the utmost care.

-Frozen Royalist
 
wyevale said:
I am puzzled Duc_et_Pair, by your deeply inconsistent nomenclature regarding deposed Royals..
You describe [presumably to insult] a deposed, but Crowned [within living memory] Empress as 'Mrs' yet call a member of the Orleans House [deposed in 1848] 'Dauphin' ?
Baffling, but I suppose it speaks to your prejudices ?
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It is quite surprisingly simple Wyevale. Jean d'Orléans is a scion from the ancient House of Capet which ruled in France, Spain (plus the immense world empires of these two countries), Parma, Luxembourg, the Two Sicilies, Brazil and name it.

The so-called "King of Kings" was the son of a military coup leader. It is fine that you hail an oppressive military junta, but then be consequent. Why not hail other military coup leaders as Franco (whose granddaughter married the ainé des capétiens) or Mu'ammar al-Khadaffi. The son of this last despicable figure, Sayef al Islam al-Khadaffi has ambifions to lead Libia. When he crowns himself Emir-of-all-Emirs then you stand up for loud cheers to him? After all there is little difference between the son of Colonel Pahlavi and Colonel Al-Khadaffi.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
It is quite surprisingly simple Wyevale. Jean d'Orléans is a scion from the ancient House of Capet which ruled in France, Spain (plus the immense world empires of these two countries), Parma, Luxembourg, the Two Sicilies, Brazil and name it.

The so-called "King of Kings" was the son of a military coup leader. It is fine that you hail an oppressive military junta, but then be consequent. Why not hail other military coup leaders as Franco (whose granddaughter married the ainé des capétiens) or Mu'ammar al-Khadaffi. The son of this last despicable figure, Sayef al Islam al-Khadaffi has ambifions to lead Libia. When he crowns himself Emir-of-all-Emirs then you stand up for loud cheers to him? After all there is little difference between the son of Colonel Pahlavi and Colonel Al-Khadaffi.
Click to expand...

The son in law of Quadjars founded a new Dynasty and some of his descendants are also descendants of the Quadjars.
 
The revolution of 1979 parallels the Bolshevik Revolution in that the public was sick of poor economic conditions, they were appalled at the lavish lifestyle of the Shah and his family over the years while ordinary people eked out a living and saw US oil companies/corporations funneled millions and million out of the country for their huge profits while the US government continually supported this and propped up the Shah as long as he remained a staunch US ally. The people bought what the Islamists preached and truly thought they would have a govt. that could improve their lives. Well, gee, they traded one bad govt. and absolute ruler for another.
The people put their hopes in an improved economy which may have come around after the Nuclear Treaty was signed and most of the sanctions were lifted. Unfortunately, the price of oil tanked, but more importantly living and economic conditions have not improved and people are as frustrated as they were with the Shah. I can see why the mainly young people are calling for restoration of the Shah/Monarchy, but they didn't live under the brutal secret police, the crackdown, arrests and torture of opponents of the Shah and crackdown of any media freedoms. The grass always seems greener when one wants to get rid of a particular govt./leader.
I think before the restoration of a Monarchy, as I've written elsewhere, there needs to be a stable govt. in place as a foundation. After a stable govt. has been established and working for a substantial period of time, then it's time to put the possible restoration of Monarchy to the vote of the people.
OT: the AJAX operation did no favors to the Iranian people. The favors were to the US oil companies, US govt. and the Shah. It was the start of the very troubles that led Iran to the situation of today. At around the same time period of AJAX, the Syrian Govt. at the time was overthrown by another CIA backed/led coup which led eventually to Al-Assad dynasty and the situation in Syria today. Much of the atmosphere in the Middle East can be traced by to the Eisenhower/Dulles years and now we have Emperor, I mean President Trump fanning the flames of further unstability again.
 
Sorry, I meant to write instability. It's much too late for me, off to bed.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
"The Iranians are waiting for an enlighted and progressive Iran".

This unlike the oppressive, corrupt and nepotist rule of her late husband. "An enlighted and progressive Iran": so we can exclude the return of a man naming himself "Kings of Kings".

:flowers:
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Trying to forget all the reforms of the late Shah and to see only his possible mistakes it is certainly not fair.
 
Gaudete said:
It's easy to see why the Empress is still very much respected in Iran. Other exiled monarchs and their families would do well to pay her a visit and see how she handles such things with such dignity and intelligence.
Click to expand...

It is pretty easy to show "dignity and intelligence" with placing a Hermès scarf around your former "imperial" neck and then write some freebees on social media. Let us be realistic. This is possibly the still living record holder of the contest: who can wear the biggest load of diamonds and the longest possible ermine train?

People seem to forget that the ayatollahs found very fertile ground for their campaign against the "Shah" and that was not for nothing. If Iran was all so happy under the Pahlavis, the ayatollahs would not have had any chance.

Joséphine de Beauharnais

The Joséphine look-a-like in an Arab country
 
That’s rather unfair to Her Majesty considering that many in her position could have just enjoyed a quiet life putting her past behind her. She has not. Her work for Iran since the time of her exile cannot be written off or ignored. In many ways she’s done for more in exile than some royals who still enjoy their positions.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
It is pretty easy to show "dignity and intelligence" with placing a Hermès scarf around your former "imperial" neck and then write some freebees on social media. Let us be realistic. This is possibly the still living record holder of the contest: who can wear the biggest load of diamonds and the longest possible ermine train?

People seem to forget that the ayatollahs found very fertile ground for their campaign against the "Shah" and that was not for nothing. If Iran was all so happy under the Pahlavis, the ayatollahs would not have had any chance.

Joséphine de Beauharnais

The Joséphine look-a-like in an Arab country
Click to expand...

Your crusade against the Pahlavis is suprising, if not laughable.
I wonder if you're so picky with the other ex monarchs from "young" dynasties...
But i guess it would be far less enjoyable to play with the clichés you love :flowers:
 
Nico said:
Your crusade against the Pahlavis is suprising, if not laughable.
I wonder if you're so picky with the other ex monarchs from "young" dynasties...
But i guess it would be far less enjoyable to play with the clichés you love :flowers:
Click to expand...

When Sayef-al-Islam al-Khadaffi, the son of military coup leader Colonel Mu'ammar al-Khadaffi succeeds to take the power in Libya and he titles himself King of Libya, I expect you to bow deep, in utter adoration and reverence.

After all then there is no any difference with the son of military coup leader Colonel Reza Pahlavi, who titled himself "Shah of Iran". And there is also no difference with that other miltary coup leader Capitain Jean-Bédel Bokassa who titled himself Empereur Centrafricain.

:flowers:
 
I suppose we can add the Carolingians to the list too then? Although the dynasty did give Europe Emperor Charles the Great and many other kings and emperors, it only started with his grandfather: Charles Martel. A military leader and mayor of the palace.

I have never seen anybody refer to "Emperor" Charles the Great though.

Although you may have your reservations about the last Shah and his dynasty, which indeed was installed in a coup, the use of quotation marks around his title is petty.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
When Sayef-al-Islam al-Khadaffi, the son of military coup leader Colonel Mu'ammar al-Khadaffi succeeds to take the power in Libya and he titles himself King of Libya, I expect you to bow deep, in utter adoration and reverence.

After all then there is no any difference with the son of military coup leader Colonel Reza Pahlavi, who titled himself "Shah of Iran". And there is also no difference with that other miltary coup leader Capitain Jean-Bédel Bokassa who titled himself Empereur Centrafricain.

:flowers:
Click to expand...

How many monarchies were established by the will of the people through elections rather than by force? By your logic, there are no valid Kings or Queens left anywhere in the world.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
When Sayef-al-Islam al-Khadaffi, the son of military coup leader Colonel Mu'ammar al-Khadaffi succeeds to take the power in Libya and he titles himself King of Libya, I expect you to bow deep, in utter adoration and reverence.

After all then there is no any difference with the son of military coup leader Colonel Reza Pahlavi, who titled himself "Shah of Iran". And there is also no difference with that other miltary coup leader Capitain Jean-Bédel Bokassa who titled himself Empereur Centrafricain.

:flowers:
Click to expand...

And Bonaparte was a general, the first Grimaldi a monk and Zog of Albania the President of his own country...
Farah had to fight all her life against condescending attitude like yours. As pointed out, "petty" and "ignorant" seem quite fitting to sumarize your comments.
Just keep them rolling, at least it's entertaining (and don't forget to bow deep to your usual "coterie", i know you like French words).

:flowers::flowers::flowers:
 
I apologize for beating a dead horse at this point but still, there have been plenty of royal dynasties that were established by people who were in the military, were prominent politicians or just simply something else entirely. Just to name a few from the past few centuries besides the Pahlavi, Bonaparte and Zogu dynasties we also have the Bernadotte Dynasty, which is the current ruling house of Sweden, a dynasty that was established by a French general that was quite loved by the Swedish people so much so that the last king of the previous dynasty declared him to his successor. The House of Yi, Korea's final ruling dynasty was established by a general. The Karadordevic Dynasty of Serbia/Yugoslavia was established by a rebel leader against the Ottoman Empire. Several of China's dynasties were established by generals and/or politicians. So in a way it doesn't really take much for a family or clan or whatever to become a royal family of a nation, whether for better or for worse.

So what makes the Pahlavi Dynasty different from the others exactly? Their background? Their way of ruling (Let me tell you that there have been several dynasties that have caused more destruction, were more greedy, and were just plain unlikable compared to the Pahlavi Dynasty)? Or just how long they lasted as the Iranian Imperial Royal Family?

Look the Pahlavi Dynasty aren't perfect, they never were in my opinion. The fact that the Pahlavi Dynasty is just so human in my opinion is what makes them so fascinating and one of my favorite dynasties of all time, they have made mistakes and they are trying to do everything they can to make up for it with as much dignity, kindness and as much support for their fellow Iranians (both exiled and living under the messed Islamic Republic) as humanly possible. Also in my opinion they are a hell of a lot better then the Qajar, Afsharid and Zand Dynasties and the Pahlavi Dynasty is definitely and without a doubt several times better than the horrid Islamic Republic that reigns over Iran. I just hope the days of the Islamic Republic are finally and I mean finally numbered.

-Frozen Royalist
 
As far I as I know from the latest news the protests are limited to the cities and haven't spread to rural areas where the people are still firm supporters of the Islamic Republic plus the military is still supporting the present cleric leaders and not interfering with the Revolutionary Guard.
OT: Cesar Chavez and now his successor Maduro in Venezuela are still in power because the military still supports the regime and that's despite years now of economic collapse and continuous protests by the public everywhere in the country.
I regret being a downer, but I don't see the end of the present regime as their days being finally numbered to be realistic. There's a long ways to go.
 
Well, does anybody have an idea or a plan to help speed up the process or do we just sit back and keep doing what we did since 1979, wait for the Islamic Republic to crumble. I know patience is a virtue and all but waiting isn't exactly fun plus it doesn't help that we are dealing with a crazy theocracy here, I mean how do you counter that for a restoration? I suppose we could pressure the government but that could result in rather hefty retaliation from our good friend the Russian Federation, not being to do anything makes me want to do this: :bang:

But seriously does anybody have a worthwhile idea here?

-Frozen Royalist
 
Nico said:
And Bonaparte was a general, the first Grimaldi a monk and Zog of Albania the President of his own country...
Farah had to fight all her life against condescending attitude like yours. As pointed out, "petty" and "ignorant" seem quite fitting to sumarize your comments.
Just keep them rolling, at least it's entertaining (and don't forget to bow deep to your usual "coterie", i know you like French words).

:flowers::flowers::flowers:
Click to expand...

Oh I am fine with it. If the Iranians want a roll-back to the CIA-backed arch-corrupt and nepotist puppets on that "Peacock Throne": good luck. We all know it will never happen. Russia and China will never let slip their influence in the Persian Gulf, since our American friends are so friendly with the head-chopping, women-stoning, slave-holding and gay-hanging "allies" in Saudi-Arabia. Holding Iran means the whole Persian Gulf, the aorta of world economy, is in Western influence.

Forget any snippet of a chance on a restoration of that Pahlavi vaudeville. Reason: geopolitics and reality. It will never happen. Putin will repeat the scorched earth policy he used in Georgia, Ukraine and Syria when the West again tries to expand their influence at the cost of Russia.
 
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Frozen Royalist said:
Well, does anybody have an idea or a plan to help speed up the process or do we just sit back and keep doing what we did since 1979, wait for the Islamic Republic to crumble. I know patience is a virtue and all but waiting isn't exactly fun plus it doesn't help that we are dealing with a crazy theocracy here, I mean how do you counter that for a restoration? I suppose we could pressure the government but that could result in rather hefty retaliation from our good friend the Russian Federation, not being to do anything makes me want to do this: :bang:

But seriously does anybody have a worthwhile idea here?

-Frozen Royalist
Click to expand...

Always a bad idea to mess with other country's culture or politics, because there's usually lot's of details you only understand when you live in it.
Aside from that, i'm not convinced a monarchy is better by default...:flowers:
 
We're supposed to come up with ideas to restore the monarchy? I don't think so. This is a problem limited to the Iranian Islamic Govt. and the people, other nations, particularly the US have no business stepping in unless US support is requested, as if that will happen. This is a confrontation between the hard liners and the reformer clerics. Russia and China have a huge interest in Iran for the access to the Persian Gulf and there's no way they will allow a US military presence in. The last time the US tried to intervene in the Middle East was Iraq when we invaded the country based on blatant lies and in the end resulted in a civil war which has subsided for now, but could start up at any time. It also gave birth to ISIS which was founded by ex-military leader that were loyal Baathists and loyal to Hussein. Look what happened there. Iraq, Syria, Libya and the rest of the Middle Eastern countries remain under there threat. All from the US invasion.
Many of the protests are against the Iranian Govt.'s involvement in Syria, Iraq and Lebanon, they want the money spent on having troops fighting in those theaters to be spent at home on the people instead. I can understand that. I should say one of the points of protest by the public.
An Iranian professor was interviewed this weekend on the BBC Overnight broadcast on US NPR and he stated there's no chance for any regime change and if it would happen, it wouldn't be for at least 5 to 10 yr. He stated as long as the Revolutionary Guard and the military are entrenched with the clerics nothing will happen and they are still fiercely loyal to the clerics.
There's nothing wrong with being interested in Monarchies as we all are here and talking the "what ifs", but there has to be a realist understanding that monarchies aren't the answer to all the world's problems. The West supported the Shah until 1979, when he was ill and dying with cancer, did any of the Western Allies grant he and his family exile? No. Some friends.
 
I also need to add, did the Shah's great friend and ally in particular, the US put out the welcome mat to grant exile/asylum to the Royal Family. That's especially NO.
 
:previous:

That last is true. The Pahlavis suddenly became the disease anyone tried to avoid. The world is a cynical place. During their reign the Pahlavis were met with all égards. But it was all just superficiality and pure calculation.

The documentary Decadence and Downfall: The Shah of Iran's Ultimate Party about Persepolis also changed my look on the monarchy. It is clear states (and monarchs) have no friends. Only interests. Look at them, sitting there, the Duke of Edinburgh and the Princess Anne in their palace-like tents at Persepolis. Look at them, in their most glittering diamonds: the Danish and the Belgians. Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands playing old chum and old pal with Mohammed Reza. See Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofía popping their eyes out. In the documentary it became clear the royals did not take it all very au sérieux and it was mainly the sweltering heat in that artical oasis in the desert which sticked in their memories.

When Mohammed Reza was desposed, he travelled from country to country seeking for asylum. Where once the doors of the White House, the Élysée or Europe´s royal palaces swept wide open for him, everything remained firmly shut.
 
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'Fair weather' friends indeed...
 
January 8, 1936 Reza Shah Pahlavi removes compulsory hijab ����(Islamic headscarf) for the women of Iran in a push to further modernize the country.
Ironically, today, 82 years later, following more than a week of protests and unrest, the mullahs announced English classes would be banned in schools, attempting to isolate the Iranian people from the Western world and accusing the U.S. of inciting this most recent movement.
But what are the people saying? Though the majority of those on the streets were born after the Revolution, they want better. They want change. It’s fascinating to watch these young people nostalgic for a pre-Islamic, pro-Iranian Iran.
 
wyevale said:
January 8, 1936 Reza Shah Pahlavi removes compulsory hijab ����(Islamic headscarf) for the women of Iran in a push to further modernize the country.
Ironically, today, 82 years later, following more than a week of protests and unrest, the mullahs announced English classes would be banned in schools, attempting to isolate the Iranian people from the Western world and accusing the U.S. of inciting this most recent movement.
But what are the people saying? Though the majority of those on the streets were born after the Revolution, they want better. They want change. It’s fascinating to watch these young people nostalgic for a pre-Islamic, pro-Iranian Iran.
Click to expand...

Pre-Islamic Iran? They want seven centuries back?
 
Frozen Royalist said:
Well, does anybody have an idea or a plan to help speed up the process or do we just sit back and keep doing what we did since 1979, wait for the Islamic Republic to crumble. I know patience is a virtue and all but waiting isn't exactly fun plus it doesn't help that we are dealing with a crazy theocracy here, I mean how do you counter that for a restoration? I suppose we could pressure the government but that could result in rather hefty retaliation from our good friend the Russian Federation, not being to do anything makes me want to do this: :bang:

But seriously does anybody have a worthwhile idea here?

-Frozen Royalist
Click to expand...
Why do you want to change it? Its usually disastrous interfering in differnet countires, even if they are tyrannical or not in tune iwht Western liberal democratic ideals. Intervention in the Middle East may be justifiable in some ways but it rarely wroks out very well in practice.
 
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