The Caroline Judgment

[tbhrc]

Because of the recent discussions in the Charlotte Casiraghi Current Events Thread about paparazzi pics and so on, I thought I could open a thread about the famous 'Caroline-Judgement'.

Here are two links:

CHAMBER JUDGMENT IN THE CASE OF VON HANNOVER v. GERMANY

FEDERAL CONSTITUTIONAL COURT

Some quotes:

Summary of the facts

Since the beginning of the 1990s Princess Caroline von Hannover has been campaigning – often through the courts – in various European countries to prevent photographs about her private life being published in the sensationalist press.

She has on several occasions unsuccessfully applied to the German courts for an injunction preventing any further publication of a series of photographs which had appeared in the 1990s in the German magazines Bunte, Freizeit Revue and Neue Post. She claimed that they infringed her right to protection of her private life and her right to control the use of her image.

In a landmark judgment of 15 December 1999 the Federal Constitutional Court granted the applicant’s injunction regarding the photographs in which she appeared with her children on the ground that their need for protection of their intimacy was greater than that of adults.

However, the Constitutional Court considered that the applicant, who was undeniably a contemporary “public figure”, had to tolerate the publication of photographs of herself in a public place, even if they showed her in scenes from her daily life rather than engaged in her official duties. The Constitutional Court referred in that connection to the freedom of the press and to the public’s legitimate interest in knowing how such a person generally behaved in public.

So what do you think? Any changes since 2004? Less paparazzi pics? More privacy for the family?

 

[Beatrice]

Well in my opinion nothing has changed since then.Especially now as the three of her four children are adults the situation is much worse.The only change is that now they earn money when they gain the court case.I hope you all understand what i'm saying as English isn't my native tongue.

 

[Daytona]

A mon avis,every ruling from the european court of human rights is important(and from every court ofcourse) because some base standards are set and the laws are applied to all,state and individuals who violate the rights of humans.I dont think many things changed since that decision but i am confident that Caroline is satisfied with the courts ruling simply because she knows that firstly the judicial system is actually working and secondly that even though she is a public figure and her life should be crystal clear, she has a fraction of space that is protected by law.Private life and privacy are acknowledged to public figures.Besides i dont believe she shows anger at photographers who follow her everywhere,she has accepted the fact that she is of public interest.But if ,for some private matters,her privacy will be violated next court ruling will favor her again and that is reassuring for her.

 

[anag]

Well in my opinion nothing has changed since then.Especially now as the three of her four children are adults the situation is much worse.The only change is that now they earn money when they gain the court case.I hope you all understand what i'm saying as English isn't my native tongue.

I totally agree with you, nothing has changed. Although, I think that apart from money she gained the satisfaction of knowing that she fought and won. And you're right, the fact that 3 out of her 4 children are adults makes a big difference. At least little Alexandra isn't photographed too much.

And your English is better than most Americans.

Ani

 

[tbhrc]

IMO something has changed, well I can only speak from my experiences in Germany. We usually don't get paparazzi pics in our magazine's. If you take a look at Towsends blog you'll notice that there have been tons of private pics when the Casiraghi's were younger, but nowadays we usually just get a few pics of them in private (beside the summer holiday pics).

It seems that the Italian and Spanish press sees things a bit different. Their mags include on a regular basis paparazzi pics of the family.

 

[tbhrc]

Here are some interesting articles about that subject:

Princess wins tabloid privacy war

Princess Caroline of Monaco has won a major legal battle over the right of newspapers to publish pictures of her. The European Court of Human rights said photographs of her and her children should not have been published, even if they were taken in a public place.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3838945.stm


Princess Caroline of Monaco wins privacy ruling

Princess Caroline of Monaco won a landmark ruling from the European Court of Human Rights on Thursday, which confirmed that the publishing of paparazzi photographs taken of the Princess in a public place was a violation of her right to privacy.

The ruling is expected to encourage courts throughout Europe to take a stronger line over the publishing of images of celebrities who do not have official functions or who do not seek public attention.

http://www.out-law.com/page-4663



Private life: no common law for presidents, princesses and the public

A recent ECtHR case lends greater support for successful claims against the press for breach of privacy which, says Joanna Brett, could be useful not just for the rich and famous but also for the ordinary person on the street.

http://lawzone.thelawyer.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=111335


Strasbourg Privacy Revolution?


Media intrusion on the private lives of individuals has been an important theme in recent English cases. The courts have tried to strike a careful balance between the Article 8 right to private life and the Article 10 right to freedom of expression. The boundaries of the claim in breach of confidence have been modestly extended with a view to protect the privacy and the claim has been reformulated. All this may be about to be the subject of radical revision as a result of the most important Strasbourg media case of recent times. In this article we will explain this decision and seek to explore some of its potentially far reaching consequences.

http://www.carter-ruck.com/articles/090704_StrasbourgPrivacyRevolution.html

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

I totally agree with you, nothing has changed. Although, I think that apart from money she gained the satisfaction of knowing that she fought and won. And you're right, the fact that 3 out of her 4 children are adults makes a big difference. At least little Alexandra isn't photographed too much.

And your English is better than most Americans.

Ani

It does seem to be better for Alexandra. Even the Italian magazines feel it necessary to protect themselves by blurring Alex's face in the pictures. But I agree with Beatrice that, for the Casiraghis, it's worse since they are adults.
That said, however, in agreeance with ?Daytona (forgot whose post, sorry) it is a major victory for Caroline. The ECHR ruling is a landmark and will influence all future cases on the same topic.

IMO something has changed, well I can only speak from my experiences in Germany. We usually don't get paparazzi pics in our magazine's. If you take a look at Towsends blog you'll notice that there have been tons of private pics when the Casiraghi's were younger, but nowadays we usually just get a few pics of them in private (beside the summer holiday pics).

It seems that the Italian and Spanish press sees things a bit different. Their mags include on a regular basis paparazzi pics of the family.

The German magazines can't publish any paparazzi pics of Caroline's family without risk. She sued them once and even though they won, in their courts, the ECHR overruling places them in a bad situation if they ignore it. And since Caroline filed a complaint once already, she can easily do it again. So I guess the German magazines just don't take the risk. The Italian and Spanish mags will keep pushing it as long as they can. I've wondered why Caroline doesn't file complaints in those countries, but maybe she pullls less weight there than Germany? After all, she is married to a German prince and they own property in Germany; does that make some difference?

 

[dw2108]

I have a big, big problem with this suit which making the rich even richer by theatening to file suit against anyone they so choose to control. Grace Kelly knew how to handle photographers and the like, but she has three kids who appear to have learned nothing from her. In my opinion, Caroline, Stephanie and Albert want the spotlight on when all is OK, and otherwise off. An old saying: If you can't stand the heat, get the BLEEP out of the kitchen!

Dave

 

[rodbarreiro]

caroline

i dont tink that they want the spotlight, if Caroline went to St. Remy exactly for that reason, i just thinkthat she is brilliant and has been always sorrounded with glamour and has 3 beautiful children, she tries to deal with it because she has to

 

[Beatrice]

^I agree.Yes moving to St.Remy was wise.

 

[dw2108]

It is really sad that these people have to take such drastic BUT CRUEL measures to get some privacy, but their privacy comes legally at the expense of OUR human rights. This ruling allows The World Court to accept LIES as testimony, e.g., when one witness was asked if he had slept with Princess Caroline, his response -- taken as TESIMONY -- was, "Well, if I had, I would lie about that, but my answer is 'No.'" What kind of "court" are we talking about here? One that violates human rights? Princess Caroline set a really good precedent here -- TRIAL BY LIES! And Princess Stephanie holds the ROYAL WORLD RECORD FOR FILING SUITS, as well as making the most money off these suits. Has this family gone insane, non-linear, or what?

Dave

 

[fandesacs2003]

It is really sad that these people have to take such drastic BUT CRUEL measures to get some privacy, but their privacy comes legally at the expense of OUR human rights. This ruling allows The World Court to accept LIES as testimony, e.g., when one witness was asked if he had slept with Princess Caroline, his response -- taken as TESIMONY -- was, "Well, if I had, I would lie about that, but my answer is 'No.'" What kind of "court" are we talking about here? One that violates human rights? Princess Caroline set a really good precedent here -- TRIAL BY LIES! And Princess Stephanie holds the ROYAL WORLD RECORD FOR FILING SUITS, as well as making the most money off these suits. Has this family gone insane, non-linear, or what?

Dave

I'm sorry, but IMO, the insane think is that somebody has to be asked if hje slept with Prcs Caroline, This is scandalous. Out of a criminal case, which of course is not the case, why her personnal intimate life has to be brought in front of people??? I would not appreciate if it would happen to be. And I do not consider that it's my neighbor's human right, to know whith whom I slept yesterday night

 

[dw2108]

I'm sorry, but IMO, the insane think is that somebody has to be asked if hje slept with Prcs Caroline, This is scandalous. Out of a criminal case, which of course is not the case, why her personnal intimate life has to be brought in front of people??? I would not appreciate if it would happen to be. And I do not consider that it's my neighbor's human right, to know whith whom I slept yesterday night

Well, if THAT sounds insane, then why did CAROLINE'S attorney, Prinz, ask the witness THAT question? Monaco must be a crazy place -- "crazy" meant in the good sense! But I agree; it's an insane question to ask!

Dave
THE PERSON WHO OVER-REACTS IN ALL MATTERS -- LARGE, SMALL, IRRELEVENNNNT or otherwise.

 

[julianneneville]

Is this judgment the reason why we have seen so few pictures lately? Especially of the family's recent vacation on the PACHA?

 

[dw2108]

Is this judgment the reason why we have seen so few pictures lately? Especially of the family's recent vacation on the PACHA?

I was wondering about that too. I think, you're right.

Dave

 

[seto]

I have a question if these laws were passed in every country with royalty and they could only take pictures of them at official functions would people still be interested in these families?

I think the pictures of them doing their duty are nice but it is nice to see them behaving like normal people.

 

[Coquine]

I have a question if these laws were passed in every country with royalty and they could only take pictures of them at official functions would people still be interested in these families?

In Belgium, the Belgian royal family is still popular although we hardly see any paparazzi pictures of them.

In this weeks issue, Point de Vue announces that they are convicted (I don’t know if this is the right expression, in French it would be ‘condamné’) for publishing pictures of Andrea & Charlotte. Here’s what they say :

Point de Vue condamné
« Par jugement du 3 mai 2006, le tribunal de grande instance de Paris, Chambre de la presse, a condamné la société Point de Vue à payer des dommages et intérêts à Andrea Casiraghi et à Charlotte Casiraghi, pour avoir porté atteinte à leur vie privée et à leur droit à l’image dans le numéro 2975 du magazine Point de Vue, paru dans la semaine du 27 juillet au 2 août 2005. »

Now I understand why Point de Vue hasn’t published any private pictures of the Casiraghis from this summer yet. I think it’s a pity. Point de Vue is always very respectful, never makes any negative comment. Caroline should better concentrate on the really trashy magazines who always make negative comments about them and publish really intrusive pictures. The pictures in Point de Vue just showed Charlotte and Andrea walking on the street. I've seen worse pictures of them. It's really a pity.

Here you can see the pictures in question :
Charlotte : http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=170409&d=1121658794 (picture from Newscom, posted by Tbhrc)
Andrea : http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/250284-post14.html

 

[anag]

I agree with you coquine, PDV is not as harsh a magazine as others are. There have been more intrusive photos than them just walking in the streets though, but not too many. I agree..it is a real pity.

Ani

 

[dw2108]

I have a question if these laws were passed in every country with royalty and they could only take pictures of them at official functions would people still be interested in these families?

Not in the US! We killed off all our royalty by 1776, and few in the US know who Princess Caroline is. Moreover, in the US, her numerous suits filed against so many people, would make her a complete disgrace, as the late Frank Sinatra found to be the case when he filed suit aganst a photographer. THAT killed his image, which he had to regain over a period of some ten years, but he was still seen there-after as nothing more an acting, saloon singing jerk by comedians, commentators and fans. So he really lost a great deal of his image, and his suit haunted him even after his death!

I think the pictures of them doing their duty are nice but it is nice to see them behaving like normal people.

And they are just mere people; they should remember that AT ALL TIMES!

Dave

 

[Horseygal]

^I agree.Yes moving to St.Remy was wise.

I agree, too - getting out of Monaco to a quiet place like St. Remy allowed them to grow up out of the spotlight - but, now that they are adults, are dating, enjoy socializing, they become fodder for the tabloids.

 

[kokong]

this 'war' between princess caroline and paparazi imo started when Prince Ernst were having problems with some german magazine (one ex. Bild). Before the 'war' the paparazi were having a good time following and bothering the prince family just to take their pictures and publized the most uncompromizing ptictures of Prince Ernst, Pictures of the Prince fighthing with paparazi were publized where for my opinion it was most the faults of the paparazi because they were most of time invading the personal space that he feels safe. The magazine were suing and getting financial compensation from the Hanovers and I think Pr Caroline have enough. She fight thru court and most of the time she is winning. Again this is just my opinion, nothing to back it up.

 

[seto]

Then there is the question what is private? I don't think anyone should be chased for a picture I also think the children should not be photographed it is not fair to them. But I do think that to a point when you are in public you are not in private. If they are walking down a street or on a beach then the picture can be taken.

 

[Grace]

Caroline started the "war" to the paparazzi after Stefano died, she moved to St Remy, and wanted to protect her children privicy while instead they were chased even going to school! That's when she started sueing...

 

[dw2108]

After musing over the implications of this ruling, I came to this conclusion: the ruling is NOT the issue; rather, it is the the sign of a young royal family taking action on their own for the first time without their father, possibly making mistakes -- or not -- while being held to a remarkably high, and possibly unfair, standard.

Dave

 

[tbhrc]

Well it seems she was at court again, from now on it is no longer allowed to show pics of the Casiraghi's in german tabloids and tv shows. Here is the article:

No reports over private lives of Carolines adult children

Berlin (AP) on the private life of the adults of children of Caroline of Monaco may not be reported in the principle. The Court of Appeal Berlin seized a resolution on Friday, according to which medium reports may not be repeated approximately over a riding trip and the attendance of a celebration of the two sons and a daughter.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.news.yahoo.com%2F01092006%2F12%2Fberichte-privatleben-carolines-erwachsenen-kinder.html&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools


I would still like to know why she does not sue other tabloids in Spain or Italy. They publish pics of the family nearly every week. I'm a bit confused....

 

[rosana]

i read in a book about Caroline that she has an economic agreement with some magazines, i dont dont if its true.

 

[kokong]

I think Princess Caroline was responding to what some German magazine (most especially Bild) for some of their stories of prince Ernst Hanover. I read in some french magazines , P.Vue. O'La ( sorry this was long time ago and I threw them in recyle bin) some stories that feels like mocking pr. Ernst. One example was when he lost to the German Government regarding some of the Hanover proerties he would to get back from the government and he lost. In the magazine they show the 'older member' of the Hanover family pictured with some members of Hitler groups and said that Hanover family were on Hitler 'side'. Most of the time the magazine were emphasing only the negatives of the Hanover family mostly Pr. Hanover. So imo I don't blame Pr. Caroline for now wanting any pictures/stories of her family to be publized in Germany since from what I read they (some germans) don't like pr Ernst . Good for Prince Ernst for having a protective, supportive and loving wife!

 

[dw2108]

I still have mixed feelings about these suits, e. g., she did the wrong thing for the right reason. But is she going to file suit against the whole world? In the US, Princess Caroline is referred to by all to many reporters as "the has-been, best dressed dominatrix." But that's by people who still discuss her. Most US wire services are going to drop her as a topic according to USA Today owing to the fact that she's no longer the young, sexy princess worth looking at, and she's too quick to file suit. I find those harsh words.

Dave

 

[Laviollette]

I believe that PC wants to be dropped from the media as a topic of conversation. She wants to live her life in peace and wants her privacy respected. She wants privacy for her children so that they will not be exploited and used up by the media only to be labeled "has been" when the press has spit them out after chewing them up.

 

[hsieh]

nothing's for free in life. they grow up rich with the best education and upbringing and protections yet they want to dictate if somebody can take their picture from afar. maybe she should look at the glass as half full and be thankful for what she does have - what so many others don't or never will.