Royals Who MUST Marry Nobility/Royalty

[Marengo]

The silence from Grand Duke Jean and other relatives about the matter does not need to mean anything at all. Most people don't like to show the public their dirty laundry.

JC supposedly sided with Henri and MT and persuaded her husband to accept the marriage. She was perhaps reminded of her own marriage, which was one of the last royal marriages that was forced upon the couple by their parents. Both were in love with somebody else at the time.

It was her own mother-in-law, Grand Duchess Charlotte, who was against it. Somehow people seem to mix this story with that of JC. The old Grand Duchess was so upset about the matter that the press was asked not to make pictures of her during the wedding. She turned around after the birth of Guillaume.

JC was in terrible pains from surgeries, chemo therapies etc. since the early nineties. On top of that, her stroke made her personality more difficult too, as happens sometimes. She was difficult towards all her children (in-law). It was Marie-Astrid -with a very Imperial husband- who received most of the blows as she took care of her mother most.

We will most likely never know the complete story, we only know 1 version, of an unstable (mentioned in an article at the time) Maria Teresa who had her curious meeting with the press. Instead of racism or snobbism, it may just have been a clash of personalities, which isn't uncommon between mothers and daughters-in-law.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Thanks for the insightful post. Grand-Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte is indeed often confused with her mother-in-law, Grand-Duchess Charlotte.

Grand-Duchess Charlotte was the very last Nassau on the Luxembourgian throne, like her contemporary Queen Wilhelmina was the very last Orange-Nassau on the Dutch throne. Both were known as formidable and most difficult ladies, to be handled with caution and care... I can imagine the upset by Grand-Duchess Charlotte, as María Teresa was completely out of any standard she was brought up, all her long, eventful and often difficult life long. It is easy to condemn Charlotte de Nassau but when you feel responsible for the grand House and its future, I can imagine her resistance against a marriage which goes against anything she ever stood for.

At the same time we have to say: Grand-Duchess Charlotte counts as one of the most doting grandmothers ever and was rumoured to be extremely close to her grandchildren, no matter their "commoner" mother.

 

[Stefan]

T

At the same time we have to say: Grand-Duchess Charlotte counts as one of the most doting grandmothers ever and was rumoured to be extremely close to her grandchildren, no matter their "commoner" mother.

Grand Duchess Charlotte or Grand Duchess Josépohine-Charlotte?

 

[Countessmeout]

Thanks for the insightful post. Grand-Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte is indeed often confused with her mother-in-law, Grand-Duchess Charlotte.

Grand-Duchess Charlotte was the very last Nassau on the Luxembourgian throne, like her contemporary Queen Wilhelmina was the very last Orange-Nassau on the Dutch throne. Both were known as formidable and most difficult ladies, to be handled with caution and care... I can imagine the upset by Grand-Duchess Charlotte, as María Teresa was completely out of any standard she was brought up, all her long, eventful and often difficult life long. It is easy to condemn Charlotte de Nassau but when you feel responsible for the grand House and its future, I can imagine her resistance against a marriage which goes against anything she ever stood for.

At the same time we have to say: Grand-Duchess Charlotte counts as one of the most doting grandmothers ever and was rumoured to be extremely close to her grandchildren, no matter their "commoner" mother.[/QUOTE]

Little confused. Charlotte was close to her grandchildren with despite their commoner mother? Do you mean her great-grandchildren? Or were you referring to Prince Charles' children. Jean's wife was certainly not a commoner. Her great-grandchildren were indeed born to a commoner mother. But then again only Gui and Felix were even alive when she died in 1985, they were 4 and 1, Louis was born a year later. Neither of Henri's brothers who married commoners had children when she died.

Or were you referring to Josephine-Charlotte being a doting grandmother? And forgot the Josephine part?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I was referring to the children of María Teresa and indeed Grand-Duchess Charlotte as great-grandmother, my mistake.

The "ice-cold" former Grand Duchess melted when Guillaume was laid in her arms, so to say. Sort of Dowager Countess of Grantham vibe here...

 

[Marc23]

Like Marengo I have never heard that one at all and I don't believe it. I doubt that Baudouin, more Catholic than the Pope, would have ever consented to marry Princess Elizabeth. Not only is she Orthodox, she was and is extremely worldly and sophisticated(JFK and Richard Burton are only two of her many documented lovers). In other words the exact opposite of Baudouin.


Other than her great beauty, I can see nothing about her that would have attracted him. They both dodged a bullet!

I pulled this from her official site:

Biografija | Nj.K.V. Princeza Jelisaveta Karađorđević

As it is in Serbian I will try to translate:

"Before the marriage of King Baudoin of Belgium and Fabiola de Mora y Aragon in 1960, Princess Elizabeth was considered a strong candidate to become his wife."

Other link is an article of Aaron Gell:

Aaron Gell

"When Elizabeth’s father tried marrying her off to King Baudouin of Belgium, she ran away with Howard Oxenberg, an American businessman she’d met on the ski slopes of Austria."

What is the truth and what is not,I don't know,but just forwarded what she herself stated in her own web page and what she said in her various video interviews.

 

[Marengo]

Thanks again Marc, it is much appreciated and an interesting story.

Still, I am not sure if the princess is telling the truth. Perhaps she embelishes it a little? She married Oxenberg in january 1961. Baudouin got engaged to Fabiola in september 1960 and married her in december.

But I am sure her parents would have loved the match with Baudouin, as would Leopold III, the Princess de Réthy and Queen Élisabeth. I wouldn't be surprised if they would be encouraged to meet each other etc. But a forced wedding seems a bit too melodramatic, esp. for 1960. If the Belgian court wanted to force Baudouin there would be more appropriate princesses around.

 

[Marc23]

Thanks again Marc, it is much appreciated and an interesting story.

Still, I am not sure if the princess is telling the truth. Perhaps she embelishes it a little? She married Oxenberg in january 1961. Baudouin got engaged to Fabiola in september 1960 and married her in december.

No problem and thank you for the kind words

Actually, at the time of Baudoin's engagement Princess Elizabeth was already married.

She married Howard Oxenberg on the 21st of May 1960 in US, while their daughter was born in 1961.

 

[Marengo]

Ah, in that case wikipedia may be wrong, as they mention january 21st 1961 (for a civil wedding).

I suppose the link between Elizabeth and Baudouin would be the Italians, since Elizabeth's brother Alexander married Baudouin's 1st cousin Maria Pia of Italy.

Edit: Paul Theroff's online Gotha also mentions January 21st 1961. He does say that there is another date mentioned in online sources (21 May 1960). It seems that the 1961 is more credible, and he lists Marlene Koenig as his main source.

 

[Marc23]

Ah, in that case wikipedia may be wrong, as they mention january 21st 1961 (for a civil wedding).

I suppose the link between Elizabeth and Baudouin would be the Italians, since Elizabeth's brother Alexander married Baudouin's 1st cousin Maria Pia of Italy.

Edit: Paul Theroff's online Gotha also mentions January 21st 1961. He does say that there is another date mentioned in online sources (21 May 1960). It seems that the 1961 is more credible, and he lists Marlene Koenig as his main source.

Thank you for this.There are really various dates online,so I guess this one could be the one.

The thing I know,is what she said in an interview is that she left Paris after she turned 18 for US,didn't tell the exact month or date of her departure.

Yes,that is the connection.The families were very close due to this marriage between Alexander and Maria Pia.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The silence from Grand Duke Jean and other relatives about the matter does not need to mean anything at all. Most people don't like to show the public their dirty laundry.

JC supposedly sided with Henri and MT and persuaded her husband to accept the marriage. She was perhaps reminded of her own marriage, which was one of the last royal marriages that was forced upon the couple by their parents. Both were in love with somebody else at the time.

It was her own mother-in-law, Grand Duchess Charlotte, who was against it. Somehow people seem to mix this story with that of JC. The old Grand Duchess was so upset about the matter that the press was asked not to make pictures of her during the wedding. She turned around after the birth of Guillaume.

JC was in terrible pains from surgeries, chemo therapies etc. since the early nineties. On top of that, her stroke made her personality more difficult too, as happens sometimes. She was difficult towards all her children (in-law). It was Marie-Astrid -with a very Imperial husband- who received most of the blows as she took care of her mother most.

We will most likely never know the complete story, we only know 1 version, of an unstable (mentioned in an article at the time) Maria Teresa who had her curious meeting with the press. Instead of racism or snobbism, it may just have been a clash of personalities, which isn't uncommon between mothers and daughters-in-law.

Marengo,

This is the version of events that I read too...that it was actually J-C who supported her son's choice to marry the woman he loved. Even venerable Grand Duke Jean was reportedly not completely on board with the idea of then-Mademoiselle Mestre as a daughter-in-law.

NotHRH

I am always very uncomfortable with rumors/allegation presenting themselves as fact. On the Internet, this type of thing tends to take on a life of it's own.

Josephine-Charlotte lost her mother in a horrific accident when she was a little girl. She and her siblings and other family were taken captive by the Nazis and mistreated at Sankt Wolfgang(Allied troops who rescued them found J-C half starved and gave her a jar of peanut butter which she devoured. Baudouin's eyesight was badly damaged for the remainder of his life, hence the thick glasses)

So no, I am not prepared to believe that J-C, who had suffered much in life and knew firsthand what extremes racism and bigotry can be taken to, rejected M-T on the basis of her race and non Royal status alone. That might be M-T's version of events but that does not constitute proof.

Marc23...thanks for the link to info on Princess Elisabeth. Fascinating!

 

[claypoint2]

Even though the Habsburg empire doesn't exist for 100 years, I still expect male members to marry equally according to Habsburg house rules. You never know, mornarchy could be restored one day in one of the former crown lands.

Habsburg house rules were changed by Archduke Otto; now the only requirement is that the marriage be to a Christian woman. As a result, for example, Archduke Imre (son of Archduke Carl-Christian and of his wife, née Princess Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg) is married to an American. He did not lose his place in the order of (putative) succession, and his American wife now carries the title of Archduchess... well, socially at least... because of course the title of Archduke/Archduchess is not official anywhere. As you know, the monarchy was abolished in Austria in 1919 by the Treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Laye.