Prince Henrik's Plans for his Final Resting Place: August 2017

[Winnie]

Duc et Pair post 6832. I am sure that all you have stated has complete merit but everyone of them knew exactly what their lives would have been like if they married into top royalty. The fact that they might not have enjoyed parts of it is tough but it is also life. It takes a superior human to sacrifice even a small part of his/her life for their country, but many of the privileged do and realize their good fortune. They deem it an honor to do so to the best of their ability. A lot of your described problems with top royals might be a huge favor for getting rid of Monarchies altogether by the anti-royalists. Me, I love the different royals and learn how that react under pressure. But then I was a history student for years at university many years ago

 

[melina premiere]

Thank you very much Mulher for the very good work you are doing on this board

I saw the video and I did not recognize the prince Henrik,
I am more and more convinced that he is beginning senility

But I did not understand why the palace announced the place where Prince Henrik would be burried. Why the palace did not wait the death of Prince Henrik to announce it

 

[Mbruno]

Queen Margarethe II such as Queen Sofia are perfect Actresses. Pictures wlll be taken at Cayx with great smiles !
It is the best thing to do to make an end at this disaster Situatiion!(already 393 posts)

Margrethe and Sofia are far from being the first royals to pretend to live a happy marriage in public, if that is what you mean. In fact, royals have been doing that for centuries, especially when all marriages were arranged, as Sofia's BTW probably was. The odd thing about Margrethe is that her marriage to Henri was supposed to be a "true love" marriage when it happened. After all, Henri was not a royal himself, but rather a commoner or, in the best case scenario, a fake nobleman. I'm pretty sure King Frederik and Queen Ingrid could have come up with several alternative candidates with a better family name to marry their eldest daughter and heiress to the throne. Margrethe, however, chose to marry unequally "for love" at a time when unequal marriages pretty much meant exclusion from the succession in the Danish royal family.

Duc et Pair post 6832. I am sure that all you have stated has complete merit but everyone of them knew exactly what their lives would have been like if they married into top royalty. The fact that they might not have enjoyed parts of it is tough but it is also life. It takes a superior human to sacrifice even a small part of his/her life for their country, but many of the privileged do and realize their good fortune. They deem it an honor to do so to the best of their ability. A lot of your described problems with top royals might be a huge favor for getting rid of Monarchies altogether by the anti-royalists. Me, I love the different royals and learn how that react under pressure. But then I was a history student for years at university many years ago

Incidentally, I am curious about PH's assertion that it is "up to his wife" to do something about his title. Even if QMII wanted to do it, could she unilaterally make Henri a "King Consort" ? Would that even be legally possible in Denmark ? I would imagine it could not be that simple.

 

[Muhler]

You are welcome, Melina Premiere.?

I'm afraid Royal Norway is correct.

This cannot go on. And I doubt PH will keep his mouth shut on this matter.
So QMII will IMO soon have to face the choice between distancing herself from her husband or distancing herself from the throne.

Unless PH really is suffering from a deteriorating mind, and in that case he will have to be put away, this will continue.
QMII cannot give in to what is now a public extortion. So PH cannot be granted his wish. - Not to mention that the Danes simply will not accept it!

So if QMII does nothing this can go on for up to several years and do quite a lot of damage! Right now people are rallying around QMII and showing her sympathy. Her popularity rate has gone up each time PH had his... fits.
But if it continues much longer it will damage the monarchy as a whole and QMII as well, because she is no longer in control. - And that is unacceptable.
The government and the Parliament are no doubt also eager to have this matter resolved. The DRF is supposed to promote Denmark in a positive light, not making a spectacle of themselves.

So as I see it QMII may face the option of divorcing her husband, whom she has pledged to live with for better or worse.

If she won't, she may have to face the option if distancing herself from the throne. Because then PH can no longer blackmail his wife, since she is no longer in charge. PH is no longer the Queen's husband. - He can't exactly be equal to Mary let alone Frederik, can he?

I think it's very safe to say that PH is at the end of the line in regards to the public opinion!
Right now QMII is showered in sympathy, but just a couple of more episodes from PH like this and the public sentiment will change to: Either you do something about PH, or you get off the throne and leave it to Frederik.

Make no mistakes: PH will not be forgiven for forcing QMII to abdicate!
And if QMII decides to divorce him it will be met with a lot of understanding, but it will at the same time be a serious dent in the reputation of the DRF, and also her legacy.
The third option is that QMII somehow accommodate him and actually do give him the title of king consort. That means she will lose a lot of respect and PH better stay outside DK for the rest of his life, because he will be subject to open public ridicule and scorn.
Any respect for him is out the window.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Prince Henrik, once a dashing James Bond look-a-like has been a wonderful Prince Consort for many decades, a strict father and a visibly adored grandfather. I object against the stoning of the good man. Something has triggered longer-simmering frustration to the surface. Once we will hear the complete story, I hope. I wish Prince Henrik the best.

 

[Muhler]

And unless PH is having mental issues. I object to him humiliating and embarrassing my Queen and behaving like a sorry excuse for a husband.
QMII too has worked hard and represented Denmark very well all her life.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Prince Henrik, once a dashing James Bond look-a-like has been a wonderful Prince Consort for many decades, a strict father and a visibly adored grandfather. I object against the stoning of the good man. Something has triggered longer-simmering frustration to the surface. Once we will hear the complete story, I hope. I wish Prince Henrik the best.

I saw an old photo of Prince Henrik and was stunned. He was unbelievably handsome, indeed a James Bond lookalike.

But I also agree with Muhler, he cannot be allowed to humiliate the monarch and the DRF and the people of Denmark at will. If he's ill he needs treatment, and if he is not ill he needs to be gotten under control. Immediately.

Something has got to give....he's like King Kong now on top of the Empire State Building threatening the citizenry .

I have to believe that the Queen's close friends among her Royal peers(I don't know who they are) have been aware for some time what is going on and that she has their complete sympathy and support. Maybe some of them have even been advising her?

 

[ladongas]

Not an either/or situation

He's obviously slipping in and out of dementia. It's horrible for him, and it's horrible for the family. And when it's happening to your spouse/parent/child, you don't "put him away" immediately. People with dementia will say or do inappropriate things. But unless they're stripping off naked in public, or setting the house on fire, or mauling their caregivers, you don't put them "away".

You take away their car keys. You 'child-proof' the house. You hire companions to keep them clean, and safe, and somewhat socialized. Of course there will be embarrassing times, but careful management can reduce the number of times that occurs. PH does not lose all rights to be a human in society just because he has dementia. Those who have faced this: did you shut your mom away just because she was saying, or even doing embarrassing things, or did you wait until she could no longer live safely in the outside world?

I agree that PH is acting like a willfully rude old curmudgeon. But he doesn't deserve to be locked away just to preserve the feelings and dignity of his family, royal or not. Most families will find themselves annoyed and inconvenienced by a family member with dementia. That's life. And I would hope that the good people of Denmark would respect and admire their royal family for treating a "beloved" family member with tender respect. Feelings get hurt. That's life.

Protect and help him, but don't shut him away immediately.

Been There. Done That.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Agree with Muhler! And I'm pretty sure (as I also wrote in post 393) that Henrik is not senile. The royal family and the court had not lett a man with a deteriorating mind drive his car.

I think QMII (maybe she's already done it) should try to speak some sense into him. Will that work? Probably not since she's the one he blames.

 

[wartenberg7]

Duke, I also was beginning to feel sorry for the man and even hoped he was starting to have a slight mental problem to excuse his bizarre behavior. No More. I honestly feel that he has staged a sophisticated battle against the Danish government that didn't bow to his demands and wants. But his malicious rants against his wife and the stupid blackmail attempt shows an ignorant male that thinks he is better than a Queen of a country [even if she is the mother of his sons]. Right now I believe he is a pompous malicious idiot that should be dealt with promptly for his own good.

He just proves it was the absolutely right decision not to make him King! He´s unworthy of the title!
Let´s be happy the french Count will be buried abroad!

 

[camelot23ca]

These latest comments from Henrik are, well, I've actually sat here for a minute and I can't think of a word to describe them.

I don't think that Henrik is suffering from dementia, at least not anything that's been formally diagnosed yet. The early stages can be quite subtle and last for a long time, but if total strangers on the internet have been tossing around the possibility since Henrik's weirdly announced "retirement" I'm sure it's occurred to his family, as well, and they've consulted the appropriate people. If he had a diagnosis I think representatives for the DRF would at the very least quietly talk to friendly people like Trine Larsen and and ask that anything Henrik says not be published. And I think the wording of the DRF's statements would be very different.

So, unfortunately, if dementia is not a factor, I agree with those who say the time has come for QM to choose between her marriage and the crown. It's ridiculously unfair for her to be put in this situation, but there you are. Ironically, given all Henrik's talk about inequality, right now he and Margrethe are a unit. His actions reflect on her and vice versa. One of the benefits a monarchy is supposed to offer its citizens is stability, and the current royal couple, as a couple, can't offer that. At the very least there needs to be a public formal separation, ideally leading to divorce. Henrik can keep his title and his apanage if he agrees to retire completely, (and silently), from public life.

If Margrethe doesn't want to divorce him - and I can't believe I'm saying this - she should abdicate. This issue has been ongoing for years now - decades, really - and is only getting worse. Henrik has lost all sense of decorum and decent behaviour, it seems, and someone like that has no place occupying the position he does in Danish official life. One way or the other, it's time for him to go.

If QM chooses to remain married to him and tries to gloss over things I admit I'll lose some respect for her.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Queen Margarethe II such as Queen Sofia are perfect Actresses. Pictures wlll be taken at Cayx with great smiles !
It is the best thing to do to make an end at this disaster Situatiion!(already 393 posts)

I hope not. I agree that this cannot go on, QM has to either distance herself from her husband or from the throne. It seems to me that with his comments he is kind of enforcing a decision. But that decision cannot be granting him what he wants.

 

[wartenberg7]

Blackmail....Nice...
What an "interesting" two weeks QM has ahead of her at the Chateau.

I hope she doesn't cave in to his blackmail.

I wonder if he really believes, after all of this scandal he just causes, even if the Queen would give in, he would be respected and accepted as a King by the Danes....?! Never!?

 

[Mbruno]

I hope not. I agree that this cannot go on, QM has to either distance herself from her husband or from the throne. It seems to me that with his comments he is kind of enforcing a decision. But that decision cannot be granting him what he wants.

Could it be the case, and I'm just speculating here, that, contrary to Maria Olivia's assumption, Margrethe does indeed love Henri very much and would actually gladly make him king, but cannot do it for whatever political or legal reason, as was the case with Queen Victoria ?

My previous question remains unanswered: what would it take legally for Henri to be called "king" ?

 

[ladongas]

Is this really a scandal?

Long married couple. One spouse behaves obnoxiously. IMO, the real scandal would be a divorce. "In sickness and in health..."
Is the Royal Family's position really so fragilely situated that it can't withstand this?

 

[Osipi]

I wonder if he really believes, after all of this scandal he just causes, even if the Queen would give in, he would be respected and accepted as a King by the Danes....?! Never!?

For all we know, if and when he would be declared King Consort, he may not be totally satisfied with just being equal to a reigning Queen. He may up and decide that he deserves better such as His Imperial Majesty, THE King Consort and Patriarch of the Danes.

People with overblown self importance rarely are satisfied. They keep pushing for more.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I agree with ladongas that divorce is not the answer. It's too quick a fix in modern times for couples who run into obstacles, but Margrethe-and in fact her husband-are from a generation where marriage vows are taken quite literally.

They are nearing the finish line of their marriage and perhaps their lives, it doesn't make sense to throw in the towel at this point imo.

For better or for worse....and this unfortunately is an example of THE WORSE.

 

[Winnie]

And unless PH is having mental issues. I object to him humiliating and embarrassing my Queen and behaving like a sorry excuse for a husband.
QMII too has worked hard and represented Denmark very well all her life.

Thank you Muhler for the Danish point of view, which of course is the only one that counts in the long run. Your Queen has had a brilliant life and much loved by her citizens. She should never be humiliated or embarrassed by her "want-to-be-better-titled" subject.....husband or not. In public life she is #1, private life, who cares.

 

[Muhler]

He's obviously slipping in and out of dementia. It's horrible for him, and it's horrible for the family. And when it's happening to your spouse/parent/child, you don't "put him away" immediately. People with dementia will say or do inappropriate things. But unless they're stripping off naked in public, or setting the house on fire, or mauling their caregivers, you don't put them "away".

You take away their car keys. You 'child-proof' the house. You hire companions to keep them clean, and safe, and somewhat socialized. Of course there will be embarrassing times, but careful management can reduce the number of times that occurs. PH does not lose all rights to be a human in society just because he has dementia. Those who have faced this: did you shut your mom away just because she was saying, or even doing embarrassing things, or did you wait until she could no longer live safely in the outside world?

I agree that PH is acting like a willfully rude old curmudgeon. But he doesn't deserve to be locked away just to preserve the feelings and dignity of his family, royal or not. Most families will find themselves annoyed and inconvenienced by a family member with dementia. That's life. And I would hope that the good people of Denmark would respect and admire their royal family for treating a "beloved" family member with tender respect. Feelings get hurt. That's life.

Protect and help him, but don't shut him away immediately.

Been There. Done That.

You are right. But the DRF is not a normal family. Whatever they do in public is potentially a question of national interests.

So PH has to be either shut up, I.e. "brought under control" or the press have to ignore ham. That could probably be arranged for the Danish press. After all exposing a man who may be experiencing a mental melt-down is not something their readers will reward them for.
But the foreign press won't have such qualms.

Could it be the case, and I'm just speculating here, that, contrary to Maria Olivia's assumption, Margrethe does indeed love Henri very much and would actually gladly make him king, but cannot do it for whatever political or legal reason, as was the case with Queen Victoria ?

My previous question remains unanswered: what would it take legally for Henri to be called "king" ?

A change of the Constitution.
I described the process previously in this thread.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Could it be the case, and I'm just speculating here, that, contrary to Maria Olivia's assumption, Margrethe does indeed love Henri very much and would actually gladly make him king, but cannot do it for whatever political or legal reason, as was the case with Queen Victoria ?

My previous question remains unanswered: what would it take legally for Henri to be called "king" ?

I am sure she loves him very much or at least has done in the past but what Henrik is asking has nothing to do with love and if it was possible/a sensible thing to do Margrethe would have done the King thing many many years ago and Henrik must know this, no point trying to press her with this burial topic, it's unethical to come up with extortion like this.

 

[kalnel]

Question for Danish posters: Is there any point when the Prime Minister could weigh in? Could he make a statement saying that making Henrik king would be impossible? That could take some pressure off the Queen. (Or maybe that would be undesirable in Denmark?)

My bet is that Henrik's recent surgery put him into some kind of depression, or maybe he's feeling his mortality more than usual. He may also be annoyed that while he was in the hospital, his wife and son were on vacation at Graasten, not at his side.

But whatever it is, he is obviously trying to force things to a tipping point now. It's unfortunate that he is doing this in such a destructive and public way, but these things have obviously been simmering for a while.

If I were advising the Queen, I think I'd recommend the court announce that the Prince is permanently retiring to France and taking a "pension" (some kind of significantly reduced annual payment). Perhaps he would have to agree not to speak to the media in exchange for these payments.

She could also announce that they are separating or officially "living apart" without plans for divorce. If things calm down, everything could go on that way indefinitely. If he continues to act out, they could move on to divorce. (Reminds me of Charles and Diana!)

Or she could just shrug her shoulders and carry on without doing anything. Maybe she still loves him -- maybe she even agrees with him to an extent -- so she's not as bothered by all this as we imagine.

I've read about her admiration for Elizabeth II's youthful declaration about devoting her entire life to service, so I can't imagine this devoted queen would step down because of this flap.

 

[ladongas]

You are right. But the DRF is not a normal family. Whatever they do in public is potentially a question of national interests.

So PH has to be either shut up, I.e. "brought under control" or the press have to ignore ham. That could probably be arranged for the Danish press. After all exposing a man who may be experiencing a mental melt-down is not something their readers will reward them for.
But the foreign press won't have such qualms.

Well, it seems to me that all PH is doing is saying a version of the same thing he's been saying for years. He's not advocating riot, revolution, or murder. We have a prominent leader in our country who is frequently saying foolish, crazy, and dangerous things. And he can actually harm our well-being as a country.

PH is really only embarrassing himself. Surely the Danes realize that and will be accordingly understanding of his family's pain and suffering. You can't throw out the baby with the bath water! The RF will do their best to manage their problem, and the press will lose interest. IMO

 

[camelot23ca]

Long married couple. One spouse behaves obnoxiously. IMO, the real scandal would be a divorce. "In sickness and in health..."
Is the Royal Family's position really so fragilely situated that it can't withstand this?

If this episode illustrates nothing else, it's that every monarchy is fragile! Some more than others, and certainly the Danish royal family has built up a large bank of good will and respect with the Danish citizens. But that bank is not infinite and any sensible monarch knows it can be depleted quickly given the right set of circumstances. The family is very, very lucky Queen Margrethe and CP Frederik and Mary are so immensely well thought of and there is - at least currently - no serious republican sentiments or organized movement.

If this was Henrik's first harmful outburst I would be on board with "for better, for worse." Even if it was his second. But he's been picking at this issue, with complete disregard for the monarchy, not to mention his wife, for many years now. He's been subtly poisoning the well with more controlled comments in numerous interviews and now he sounds completely unhinged and has publicly and directly attacked the Danish Head of State. That is unacceptable from a member of the Royal Family, no matter what else is going on within the, (small f), family.

There is another acceptable option, IMO: a public and sincere apology from Henrik, with a promise to let this issue go. It has a snowball's chance in hell of happening, but it would go a long way toward settling things down.

 

[iceflower]

.

Once again some off-topic posts had to be removed. Thanks for your understanding!

 

[alicia]

We only know PH's side, through his public outbursts. We don't know the Queen's. His disturbing rant against her suggests that she has shown good judgement in not conferring the title of king consort on him. She is an intelligent woman. She must have had good reason not to, in spite of him putting her under enormous pressure to do so, over many years. He clearly blames her for not giving it to him.

The man has no class.

Thanks, again, Muhler. I can only imagine how upsetting all this is for Danish people.

 

[LadyRohan]

Again, this thread is about Prince Henrik of Denmark and his absurd plans to punish his wife for not breaking the long-established tradition of not making spouses, royal, noble or commoner alike, a King-Consort.
The Prince is making it clear through his latest interview that he is far more preoccupied feeling sorry for himself and punishing his wife for an institutionalized discrepancy that is harder to change, due to the inherent rank of the title 'King' in comparison to 'Queen'.
As many have said over and over, the debate about the title is one thing. He has carried that torch periodically for a long time.
However, the retribution heaped on wife and family by refusing shared burial not just with his wife, but his sovereign, occupying the most esteemed position in the kingdom and carrier of a thousand year old history, is petty. It's small, and it's indefensible.

To defend it by pointing to his merits as consorts and tasks performed during his long tenure, can in no way negate the damage he is currently doing.

Again, the Queen will not abdicate as a result of this. She can't accept being publicly blackmailed by her husband or anyone, and I am now more sure than before that there will, unfortunately, be a formal separation of the regent couple.

The Prince has received every blessing in life. A visibly loving wife, an adopted country that has accepted him with open arms, a good lifestyle, an elevated title and a privileged life. If he wanted to fight the good fight for titular equality in monarchies, that's one thing, but that's not what he is doing. He is selfishly tormenting, taunting and embarrassing his wife, the Queen, his family and his country.

His place in Danish public life is now toxic, and only by his own doing.
He should withdraw from public life completely, and retire to France. It is the only good thing he can do at this point.

 

[wyevale]

Protect and help him

By all means, but if the press seek to interview him "HRH is not at home", If he issues written statements, they mysteriously fail to reach the outside World...

The Danish Throne is of rather greater importance to Danes than pandering to the wishes of a 'failing mind' no matter how much sympathy there may be for his 'medical condition [IF any].

 

[suztav]

Even though Prince Henrik has been on the "king" rant for years, the fierceness of his most recent outbursts are very troubling indeed. I haven't thought that he has looked well for years -- look at his stomach! Perhaps he knows that he is a very sick man and these outbursts are a part of his frustration? It's not as if he didn't know this 50 years ago when he married her! It's not as if he has never met Prince Philip who is basically in the same boat -- as was Prince Claus in The Netherlands. I don't think QM will divorce him. However, I wouldn't be surprised if we see the family distancing themselves from him. Very very sad!

 

[Mbruno]

Again, this thread is about Prince Henrik of Denmark and his absurd plans to punish his wife for not breaking the long-established tradition of not making spouses, royal, noble or commoner alike, a King-Consort.
The Prince is making it clear through his latest interview that he is far more preoccupied feeling sorry for himself and punishing his wife for an institutionalized discrepancy that is harder to change, due to the inherent rank of the title 'King' in comparison to 'Queen'.

Just as a side comment, I don't think there is a legal discrepancy anymore in inherent rank between the titles of 'King' and (reigning) "Queen" . Specifically, when the 2009 amendment to the Danish Act of Succession repeatedly inserted the words "eller en regerende dronning" after "konge", it implied implicitly that the word "King" in the Constitution Act should be interpreted as meaning "reigning Queen" if the person who occupies the throne under the Act of Succession is a female.

The Swedish constitution was even more explicit in that regard. The 1974 Swedish Instrument of Government refers mostly to "the Head of State" rather than "the King" , but an amendment to the Instrument of Government passed in 2010 clarifies that

5 § Konungen eller drottning som enligt successionsordningen innehar Sveriges tron är rikets statschef. Lag (2010:1408).

Likewise, the amended Swedish Act of Succession makes it clear that provisions applying to the "King" also apply to the "Queen" when the head of state is a Queen.

2 § Vad i denna successionsordning är stadgat om Konungen skall, om Drottning är statschef, gälla henn

In other words, since now both "King" and "Queen" can mean "Head of State" in the constitution, the same objection to the reigning queen's husband being called "king" could be raised against calling the reigning king's wife a "queen". Personally, however, I don't think there is any conflict at all as "king/queen consort" is different from "reigning king/queen ", but that is a different discussion altogether.

PS: It is also worth noting that both the Canadian Constitution Act 1867 (formerly the British North America Act 1867) and The Commonwealth of Australia Act 1900 use only the word "Queen" rather than "King" (as they were written when Queen Victoria was the British monarch), with the remark though that references to "the Queen" in the text also applied to her heirs and successors in the sovereignty of the UK. That didn't prevent, however, Queen Alexandra, or Queen Mary, or Queen Elizabeth (later the Queen Mother) from being called "queen" either in the UK, or in Australia, or in Canada, so the point is moot to me.

 

[royal rob]

I know he has always had a problem about not being king but I feel this is more. I think he isn't well and most likely suffering from Alzheimer's. I guess we will see what happens but I want to give him the benefit of doubt. Either way sad times ahead for the family