Prince Harry and the Likelihood of Serving in Iraq

[HRH Kimetha]

I am reliably informed, via various (creditable) news sources and my very own crystal ball, that there is a long overdue recognition by the government that the laws pertaining to some types of reporting may be in urgent need of a revamp.

Ah yes, lets just reinvent the wheel.

Hopefully what you have been privy to is going to happen soon. The media has now been reporting on that poor "Harry look-a-like" soldier patroling along the Iranian border. Hopefully he isn't seen as Harry and either killed or taken alive for torture.

It would be interesting to find out, after the tour-of-duty, that Harry went down with Blair and was delivered somewhere in Iraq for his tour of duty there, unless Harry been spotted during this past week.

 

[HRH Kimetha]

I just found something I think is interesting and maybe others will too. I originally posted it in the current event thread, but snapped it away from there because this seemed a more appropriate place.

I am reading The Last Nizam, a biography of Mukarram Jah, the 8th and last Nizam of Hyderabad. Jah graduated from Sandhurst in 1957 and was commissioned into the Royal Engineers' Corps at the age of 24. Hyderabad was now part of India and not a separate kingdom and he had to find something to do. Soon afterwards India and China were fighting over their border. Jah enrolled for active service but his application forms were deliberately lost. The author suggests it was probably at Nehru's instigation.

According to Jah, "A senior general later told me that there was never any question of sending me to war. He told me that while they didn't so much mind the idea of a prince being killed, they were reluctant to see him taken prisoner by the Chinese. The propaganda surrounding such a capture would have been most unpleasant."

Different time, different place, different battlefield, different prince, same issues.

That is interesting and indeed follows today's issue regarding Prince Harry. I will have to read that book as it sounds interesting. And, pointing out the situation regarding the Chinese and propaganda does fall in line with the insurgents and their plans to grab or kill the prince. Thanks for your input.

 

[HRH Kimetha]

To show that they are all powerful and able to kill him, even in one of the heavily fortified camps.

Indeed. The once 'safe' green zone has been punctured as of late, thus showing somewhat lack of security and safety that once was almost solid from attacks.

I trust no one. Those sailors/marines could very well have been executed, thankfully they were not. If they got a hold of Harry, Lord knows what they might do to him. A prince in captivity has a certain cachet.

I wonder what the British gave up under the table. Whatever it was, if there was anything, what would they want after they captured Harry?

 

[lyndaW]

All Prince Harry ever wanted to do (since very young age) is to be a soldier...the "Military Brass" knows (or should know) in the event of war (and how many are now going on in the world (thanks to a couple of leaders of world peace) a soldier ---fights---. That is what he does and wants to do. I think the news Media that continues (any Media around the world) who puts their stories first, and endangers the soldiers should be tried for Treason. As far as the "Big Shots" leaking information, they should also be charged with Treason. This would "slow" down the leaks. Poor Prince Harry, at this time he probably knows he was-----duped-----. I doubt if you will see him serve past his enlistment, he and Chelsy could (and probably would) do a wonderful job in the Chariety Field. My hearts go out to all the soldiers in the field, world wide, as well as their family. Wars are usua;;y by, and for the Politicians. As terrible as it sounds (now don't start yelling at me..just think about it)
Follow the oil
Follow the armaments
Follow the drugs
Follow the politicians (and their special interest groups)
and you get:
----------------------------war-----------------------------------
lots and lots of money in war (always have been, and probably always will be)

 

[MARG]

Wars are usua;;y by, and for the Politicians. As terrible as it sounds (now don't start yelling at me..just think about it)
Follow the oil
Follow the armaments
Follow the drugs
Follow the politicians (and their special interest groups)
and you get:
----------------------------war-----------------------------------
lots and lots of money in war (always have been, and probably always will be)

Ah..... a cynic after my own heart.

I don't think Harry was duped. I am, however, persuaded that he is the victim of incredible MoD incompetence and almost unbelievable political naievity.

 

[caterpillarandcat]

The main idea is that he is at a much, MUCH less risk of being killed. As far as "duped" is concerned, I am not entirely aware as to what that term and/or concept actually means. As an American civillian, I have to actually search online for any news pretaining to the Royal Family. They do not seem to be of much intrest around here and I would actually have trouble recognizing any of them anyway honestly. I am only intrested in their well being and political role, and of course, their equines. Concerning "Harry's" situation and the deployment topic, he is a young man, in the Service and due to his status in the media was denied the chance of driving around in some kind of tank popping off rounds at large or small furry Iraqies or Afghanies, risking his life. It is not like we were gonna get live footage of that event occuring anyway. I wouldn't want to see the bloodshed, personally. It's a shame that people are suffering mentally over a decision that was decided in everyones best intrest. What if you had a loved one in "Harry's" "brigade"? (or whatever it is refered to as). Those young people work hard to achieve their rank, and did anyone else give this any thought: Mabey it's not all about him, mabey it's about them, and mabey he is sacrificing his fight to protect the lives of his commrades. There is some noble reason involved, surley, it is, still, after all that fairy tale kingdom in the hearts and minds of so many.

 

[kpusa1981]

Was Prince Harry Duped?

The main idea is that he is at a much, MUCH less risk of being killed. As far as "duped" is concerned, I am not entirely aware as to what that term and/or concept actually means. As an American civillian, I have to actually search online for any news pretaining to the Royal Family. They do not seem to be of much intrest around here and I would actually have trouble recognizing any of them anyway honestly. I am only intrested in their well being and political role, and of course, their equines. Concerning "Harry's" situation and the deployment topic, he is a young man, in the Service and due to his status in the media was denied the chance of driving around in some kind of tank popping off rounds at large or small furry Iraqies or Afghanies, risking his life. It is not like we were gonna get live footage of that event occuring anyway. I wouldn't want to see the bloodshed, personally. It's a shame that people are suffering mentally over a decision that was decided in everyones best intrest. What if you had a loved one in "Harry's" "brigade"? (or whatever it is refered to as). Those young people work hard to achieve their rank, and did anyone else give this any thought: Mabey it's not all about him, mabey it's about them, and mabey he is sacrificing his fight to protect the lives of his commrades. There is some noble reason involved, surley, it is, still, after all that fairy tale kingdom in the hearts and minds of so many.

He worked just as hardtoearn his rank and was even trained up to go. However, I have to agree with you halfway.

 

[asma]

Personally, I'm not fond of "Conspiracy theory ".I think it's a simple matter the Prince was intended to serve in Iraq and when there were specific dangers on his life ,this was cancelled.However,I think the British adminstration or whoever responsible made a big mistake by announcing the intention of sendig Hurry to Iraq.

 

[marezdote]

What did they think they would gain by killing Harry?

Who knows what goes on in terrorists heads but I suppose that they thought that by killing someone who is a very well known public figure maybe they would scare the British into withdrawing troops.

 

[Elspeth]

I think if they actually killed him, they'd have more of a fight on their hands. However, if they just threatened to kill him unless Britain withdrew its troops, it could make things awkward for the government. And if they really did go ahead and kill him, it would turn a lot of British public opinion against Iraq and Muslims in general, which wouldn't be a good thing for international relations but might be a very good thing for the terrorists.

Of course, it would also maybe put Tony Blair in the position of having to choose between his allegiance to the Queen and his allegiance to George Bush...

 

[caterpillarandcat]

He worked just as hardtoearn his rank and was even trained up to go. However, I have to agree with you halfway.

(ty) I doubt he recieved any slack at all. It needed to be mentioned that he also worked hard. Great Britian is well recognized for it's military strength, beauty and integrity, always has been.

 

[Skydragon]

I am, however, persuaded that he is the victim of incredible MoD incompetence and almost unbelievable political naievity.

State normal then!

 

[WindsorIII]

I beleive that Harry was duped from the standpoint that the royal family and co. never intended Harry to ever go to Iraq. IMO they just let everyone beleive he would and let him train with his guys. Then at the very last minute they came out with this. But IMO it was not a last minute decision, it was something known all along. There was never a chance Harry would ever go. Its just that Harry really believed there was a chance for him, there inlay, is where he was duped.

I do beleive its the correct decision and the safest for all the boys involved but poor Harry was led to believe in something and train for something that was never to be. That was known from the beginning.

I think it hit him hard. Knowing his family, I wonder if part of him, deep down, knew this would be the outcome all along, and was hoping it would not be the case.

 

[hudson]

Was Prince Harry Duped?

I think Prince Harry is a fine,brave young man who wants to serve his country.I don''t think he was duped.I think he was on the verge of going to
Iraq.According to what I have read the final straw in General Damatt's decision not to send him was a report from British intellegence that Al Sadr's
****te militia planned to kidnap the Prince within hours of his arrival in Iraq.
Once Harry was snatched Al Sadr planned to smuggle the Royal prize accross the border to Iran.Now if Harry was held in Iraq there was always a good chance the Brits could find where he was stashed and send in a SWAT team
to rescue him.But if the Prince was taken to Iran he then becomes the mother of all bargaining chips.The Iranians might demand the immediate withdrawal of British troops from Iraq.Obviously the British could not submit to this type of blackmail, at least not publicly.The longer the Prince was held
the more outraged the people would have become and the government would have come under increased pressure to take military action against Iran.Obviously this situation would have been unacceptable.

 

[MARG]

I beleive that Harry was duped from the standpoint that the royal family and co. never intended Harry to ever go to Iraq. IMO they just let everyone beleive he would and let him train with his guys.

I really don't buy into the conspiracy theorys. To imply that not only the government and MoD in cahoots with his Grandparents and Father conspired to mislead him on such an important matter as his future and then humiliated and gutted him, is pushing the bounds of credibility way to far.

Harry has wanted to be in the army since he was a small boy. For his own family to participate in such a cruel hoax is just plain unbelieveable!
The BRF only have each other to trust and rely on. Take that trust away and the entire family falls apart.

Harry would become a professional polo playing playboy. No roots, no respect, no cares. He has the money. He doesn't need a job! He just wanted to fulfill his lifelong ambition and join the real Army.

It is inconceiveable that the BRF would participate in such a conspiracy. If it was ever exposed it would destroy the BRF itself. I mean, if they could do such an underhand thing to one of their own, how could you trust them to do the right thing by all their subjects.

Ugh.....it doesn't bear thinking about!

 

[Skydragon]

Harry was going to Iraq until the media nicely told everyone about it. Despite pleas from all concerned to show restraint, they leaked rumour after rumour from their 'sources', with just enough accurate guess work to ensure a headline either way.

The media were in a win win situation.
If he went there was now a good story of how he would endanger all the men with him, the invented battalions of SAS to guard him, the 'close shaves' we would no doubt have been told about and scoop of the year if he had been shot and injured, killed or captured.
If he didn't go, he was more important than the other men out there, the RF decided not to risk one of their own, the RF ordered the MOD to stop him going, etc, etc, etc.

The facts are not as interesting. A real and credible threat was uncovered by the squirrels out in Iraq and the senior CO decided that the risk to Harry and all other personnel was not justified.

The only ones to blame for this debacle are the MOD and the bl**dy media!

 

[Duchess]

correct me if i'm wrong:

when someone joins the military...it's not always a given where they will be sent. they are sent wherever the upper echelons feel their skills will be best put to use, whether it's on the battlefield or a desk job? harry's situation is very different, i know, but perhaps as someone posted earlier, his superiors never intended to send him to war but had other plans for him??

 

[Thomas Parkman]

Well, good people, I once again am disgusted with the British and worldwide press. I am also appalled at the viewing of the BRF as some kind of ice cube monsters without a shred of human decency or human feeling.

Prince Henry, by all reports, is not the shinniest penny in the change purse. There are lots of young men out there very similar to him. He wanted to be a soldier and wanted to do his duty and be with the men who had trained and worked with him. I do not believe the British military would have made the mistake, contrary to their core principles, of making things any easier for him than anybody else. The idea that there is some kind of conspriracy is not only profoundly unjust, it is obscene.

What people do not understand is that whether one likes it or not we are up against a group total savages in Iraq. When the coalition forces finally leave all hell is going to break loose and there is the very real chance that the whole Middle East-a raving lunatic insane asylum if ever there were one- is going to blow up and our oil prices and economy with it.

So the British military and government had a very hard decision to make. That does not make them idiots. But, as in the death of Diana, the media and the yellow press have more than their fair share to bear in this whole affair. They are whores with the mindset of piranas who are going to get their pound of flesh and do not give a tinkers damn whom they hurt, injure, ruin, kill or destroy in the process.

 

[WindsorIII]

I really don't buy into the conspiracy theorys. To imply that not only the government and MoD in cahoots with his Grandparents and Father conspired to mislead him on such an important matter as his future and then humiliated and gutted him, is pushing the bounds of credibility way to far.

Harry has wanted to be in the army since he was a small boy. For his own family to participate in such a cruel hoax is just plain unbelieveable!
The BRF only have each other to trust and rely on. Take that trust away and the entire family falls apart.

Harry would become a professional polo playing playboy. No roots, no respect, no cares. He has the money. He doesn't need a job! He just wanted to fulfill his lifelong ambition and join the real Army.

It is inconceiveable that the BRF would participate in such a conspiracy. If it was ever exposed it would destroy the BRF itself. I mean, if they could do such an underhand thing to one of their own, how could you trust them to do the right thing by all their subjects.

Ugh.....it doesn't bear thinking about!

Marg do you really believe that Harry ever really had a shot of going to Iraq. I just can't bring myself to believe that they would have ever sent him. I am sure that it wasn't an all out conspiracy theory, because the reasons were very legitimate. He would have been a target which would put all the others at higher risk than normal, if that is even possible over there now. But those risks were always known and always the same. Its just that as time got closer, the decision had to be made and made public. But I think the decision was known by the higer ups all along. Harry was just led on to believe he would go, because if they told him earlier, he may not have gone on to train with the same attitude or his fellow officers may have seen it all differently too. So they waited until the end. BUt IMO it was decided a long time ago. J

JMO

 

[MARG]

Marg do you really believe that Harry ever really had a shot of going to Iraq.

Absolutely. In reality the Mod doesn't hold the life of one person over another, but in this case, thanks to the b****y media, Harry's very presence in Iraq....anywhere in Iraq would have been the stuff of nightmares. The decision was made in good faith, so too was it recinded.

I just can't bring myself to believe that they would have ever sent him. I am sure that it wasn't an all out conspiracy theory, because the reasons were very legitimate. He would have been a target which would put all the others at higher risk than normal, if that is even possible over there now. But those risks were always known and always the same. Its just that as time got closer, the decision had to be made and made public.

The situation changed..... I honestly believe that the Government, the MoD and probably the even Harry's family thought it would all be winding down or over by the time Harry was trained and ready to deploy. The reality has been a PR disaster for the goverment and the MoD.

I think our Thomas said it best:

So the British military and government had a very hard decision to make. That does not make them idiots. But, as in the death of Diana, the media and the yellow press have more than their fair share to bear in this whole affair. They are whores with the mindset of piranas who are going to get their pound of flesh and do not give a tinkers damn whom they hurt, injure, ruin, kill or destroy in the process.

Ahhh.... Thomas, seldom have I heard the media referred to with such lyrical and yet acurate venom. It's like fine Belgian chocolate mmm....! Savour that moment.

 

[WindsorIII]

Absolutely. In reality the Mod doesn't hold the life of one person over another, but in this case, thanks to the b****y media, Harry's very presence in Iraq....anywhere in Iraq would have been the stuff of nightmares. The decision was made in good faith, so too was it recinded.

The situation changed..... I honestly believe that the Government, the MoD and probably the even Harry's family thought it would all be winding down or over by the time Harry was trained and ready to deploy. The reality has been a PR disaster for the goverment and the MoD.

I think our Thomas said it best:

Ahhh.... Thomas, seldom have I heard the media referred to with such lyrical and yet acurate venom. It's like fine Belgian chocolate mmm....! Savour that moment.

You raise some very good points here Marg. If the media would have just shut up about it, he could have gone and no one would have known the better. From what I see on the television news, with those army uniforms it would be difficult to tell who is who out in the field. But they had to go and print story after story about it. Of course those terrorist groups who monitor the media caught wind of it and sent threats. If it wasn't for the media maybe he would be going.

I also never thought of the fact that they could have beleived it will all be over by the time Harry would go. Its far from over, thanks in part to our idiot President, and I am pretty patriotic too, so for me to say this I feel strong.

I think all has turned out for the best, but I think Harry is the only one that was duped. Part of me still thinks, there was always an alternate plan for him.

I will continue to pray that all the boys come home soon. IMO, not just Harry, but none of those bright young boys belongs over there, they deserve to be home.

 

[Skydragon]

I think all has turned out for the best, but I think Harry is the only one that was duped. Part of me still thinks, there was always an alternate plan for him.

I don't believe there was another plan for Harry at all. Had that been the case he would not have been allowed to choose a fighting regiment or train with a particular troop. He would have been redirected to another posting long before the MOD wasted money training the boy.

As many of us have said, time and again, bl**dy media!

 

[bbb]

i agree skydragon.
what is sad aside from all the wasted training and money is these squads train together, eat, sleep, etc. bond and become a working unit, you know what to expect, the shortfalls and strongpoints of your comrades, it's a very important element of the training and deployment. i can't help but feel it affected his unit in many unfortunate ways, morale and otherwise, we have no way of knowing. if i were him i'd be pretty upset and thinking of leaving the army, if you can't fight and do what you're trained to do, why bother-he'll hate a desk job.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Should he go to Iraq?

Hi everyone!
should prince harry go to Iraq?
i really want to no what you think about this because i honestly think he should he wants to and he's willing to go fight for his country a country it is possible he may one day rule? if William choose to abdicate or anything happens to him?
He wants to be fighting with the men he trained?
and i think he's right what was the point of all the army training if he isn't going to use it in a real battle?
and there should be no crap about it's to dangerous isn't that the whole point of war? that it's dangerous??
and Prince Andrew went to war in a country that is further away from england than Iraq and he was the queen son and at the time william or harry didn't exist! so what do you think?

 

[acdc1]

No, I think that it would be too risky for both Harry and his men. Even though he wants to go, he should still stay at home. I heard they were maybe thinking about sending him to Sierra Leone, or somewhere like that, which is a bit safer.

 

[TheTruth]

I've heard that he might go to Afghanistan. Iraq , like you said acdc1, is too dangerous.

 

[debzone]

It is really hard to compare Prince Andrew's service in the Falklands to what Prince Harry would be facing if he went to Iraq. They are totally different type conflicts.

I think the right decision was made by not sending Prince Harry. It was made for the protection and security of the troops that would be serving with/around him and not just him alone. There are other areas where he could be sent and continue to serve his country.

 

[dw2108]

No man should ever see war. I was 1054th and 1057th Special Ops in Nam, commonly called Op DELTA and DELTA FORCE by civilians ignorant of Spec Ops, and I awaken to every face whom I killed. If this kid goes to a real mess like Iraq and does things that aren't "toy boy" war games, then England won't understand why he returned in a very spiritually broken way.

Dave

 

[Skydragon]

Not all men return from war broken, only a few, whether they are SAS, SBS or 'ordinary fighting men and women.

I think Harry should have gone, but only if there had been a news blackout, to give him and the men fighting with him a chance. I firmly believe that the news agencies that printed the information they did, should have been prosecuted under the OSA if they were British and had all reporters expelled from the country if foreign.

 

[dw2108]

With all sincere and due respect, SAS were in Nam; most freaked out. Project DELTA was to take the place of Reg. ARMY, NAVY, CG, MARINE, USAF and ally troops, including Aussie and New Zealand Forces, who couldn't handle the carnage. Iraq is not an ORDINARY war; it is a political mess. This kid could be a king one day, and I don't want to see war living in the mind of anyone.

Perhaps he could visit instead in some way as an observer or a peace negotiator. That would be of great importance.

Dave