Harry and Meghan: Relationship Musings

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I think for the purposes of a visa, exceptional talent would be more along the lines of a Helen Mirrem.

In the UK Meghan is known as Prince Harry’s girlfriend. That’s about it.
Let me put it this way. If one person didn't find Meghan to be exceptional, this thread wouldn't exist in its present form. We can debate the level of Meghan's talents until the cows come home and go around in circles about it for months but its a serious waste of time and energy.

We can all agree that Meghan has had a successful acting career and its pretty self evident that Harry finds her to be an exceptional woman in his eyes. That's what matters. :D
It’s not the entertainment industry but the UK government making the judgment. I don’t believe the UK is lacking actresses that Ms Markle would be needed to be imported without being attached to any role or studio to sponsor her visa.
I don't think that is true at all. In Australia a writer, mainly known here as the troubled son of one of our veteran show business personalities, who was not known overseas at all, or was anyone's SO, has lived in the US for years. He entered it was said on the strength of one script he'd written (which wasn't taken up) and was granted a visa on 'exceptional talent'.

Also an Aussie ex singer, who had no hits, is now working as a DJ in Los Angeles. She entered on that same sort of visa. IMO it's how you present yourself. And Meghan at least has a proven body of work.
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If Ms Markle was awarded a visa on the grounds of 'Exceptional Talent' I can think of no better way to alienate the Public against her...

Since she has none, it would be obvious that she was being made 'a special case', and the press/public would judge Harry and her accordingly.
Well, that opinion of yours on her talent is a very subjective view really, isn't it? And one the Suits producers obviously disagree with you on, having employed her for seven years!

For myself though, I think Meghan will probably enter Britain on a fiancee visa before an engagement announcement.
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very subjective view really, isn't it?

Indeed, as is yours. She is part of an ensemble cast on 'Suits' where 'exceptional talent' isn't required.
Yes, a series in which Meghan has worked successfully for seven years, and is now leaving, in order to hopefully move on to marriage and a new career in the Firm.
With respect AlowVera,

I am perfectly able to judge whether I MYSELF consider an individual to be 'exceptional' in their field. They are either BRILLIANT, or they are not, regardless of their age, sex, race, looks or any other criteria. Peer groups also make those judgements, and Ms Markle has received no such accolades [as far as I know].

These visas are not granted for anyone, however! I can absolutely tell you that I know multiple people (within the showbiz industry) who has been granted these visas and none of them have had the same work experience (7 years on a successful tv show!) or been written about (prior to meeting Harry) as Meghan has.
I strongly believe she can very easily provide the evidence needed to receive the visa. In her field, being on a well known tv show and having been interviewed and written about (and in this day and age) having a successful social media presence.

Exceptional skills can mean any combo of things. If you will look at the link I posted there are two sub - categories. She doesn’t need to be well known in the uk, she needs to be well known enough in her home country. And she is, she has been written and interviewed long before she met Harry, because of her role on Suits- again a well known successful TV show (has suits won any awards?).

She may not be the caliber of Helen Mirren, but being on a successful tv show and having received some exposure can be enough to grant her the visa.

As for the production firm, i see where it may be an issue. But Edward was already a royal she will be doing it as a private citizen, she can always hand the reigns over or close it if a wedding ever happens.
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Prince Edward's ex tells Meghan Markle not to quit career | Daily Mail Online

Prince Edward’s former girlfriend has spoken and advises Meghan not to give up her career. (I’m not sure if this has been posted already.)

That's weird, was she even engaged to Edward in the first place? Perhaps she should be talking to Sophie who eventually gave up her career. I find all this career concern trolling to be rather suspect. If PH and MM are at the marriage stage of their relationship, then I'm sure she knows what she is giving up and has weighed her feelings for PH and in the balance those feelings are more than wanting an acting career it happens all the time.
Welcome evolvingdoors & thanks very much for the information.
Philosophically, isn't the whole point of requiring visas to live in a country such as the U.K. to avoid having people settle there who cannot support themselves and thus might need state assistance? The marriage visa requires proof of a certain amount of income, for example. Hardly a concern w/ Ms. Markle. I did smile when I was looking at visa applications last night thinking about how they'd fill in the blanks: address - Kensington palace; occupation - future Princess, etc. :)
I believe I read that there are 2000 exceptional talent visas available a year, I don't think there are 2000 Helen Mirrens wanting to move to the UK every year. The exceptional talent visa I think uses the word 'exceptional' in the sense of being above average not in the super star sense. In Meghan's case with her work for the UN, her successful acting, etc. she is certainly more accomplished than many.
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I think uses the word 'exceptional' in the sense of being above average not in the super star sense.

Since when has 'exceptional' equated with 'above average' ? Is it any wonder 'celebrities' are held in such widespread contempt ? When excellence is watered down to such an extent that the 'really rather ordinary' is placed on a level with the GENUINELY extraordinary we are in deep, deep trouble !
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Could someone please get in contact with whomever gets these visa applications and ask them what their definition of "exceptional" is? I know its slow getting any kind of information about Harry and Meghan but c'mon guys, arguing over whether Meghan is "exceptional" enough to qualify for a visa is just plain ridiculous. :whistling:
I personally think Meghan is very talented, charming and an exceptional person. IMHO she's on these levels of famous, a lower C, which is only a good thing, tbh, and one reason Harry and her were able to be so low key, and still are. Her face isn't well recognized in UK. I'm glad, that she doesn't have an A list career going for her, THAT would be hard to walk away from.
Since when has 'exceptional' equated with 'above average' ? Is it any wonder 'celebrities' are held in such widespread contempt ? When excellence is watered down to such an extent that the 'really rather ordinary' is laced on a level with the GENUINELY extraordinary we are in deep, deep trouble !

"Exceptional" is a legal term in this context, with a very specific definition.

According to guidance on UK.gov regarding this type of visa, The Arts Council of England can sign off on 250 "exceptional talent" visas per year (that number alone suggests not everyone is going to be what you might categorize as "A List"). To determine whether someone qualifies they maintain the following checklist (my annotations in italics):

A7. Criteria – Arts Council England
You must be able to demonstrate that you:
 are professionally engaged in producing work of outstanding quality which has been published
(other than exclusively in newspapers or magazines), performed, presented, distributed or
exhibited internationally;
I believe work on an internationally broadcast television show that has lasted seven seasons would probably qualify, given how few shows make it to air, stay on the air, or are shown on multiple continents
 can show recent (within the last five years) and regular activity of being engaged professionally
as a practitioner in your field; and
Meghan has done that, clearly
 can show a substantial (if applying under the Exceptional Talent criteria) or developing (if
applying under the Exceptional Promise criteria) track record in at least two countries, one of
which can be your country of residence.
Meghan can check off both the US and Canada, again understanding that she's working in a field in which substantial means getting parts in actual movies and TV shows and paying your bills, as opposed to being stuck in the world of extra work and commercial
I should add that, when looking around at visa requirements in general and this category in particular, the bar for "exceptional talent" in the arts is much lower than in the other career categories covered by that visa. I suspect that's because you can't really work in the arts on a normal work visa, due to very strict requirements that encourage staying with a single employer and make it very difficult to change jobs and still stay in the country...which isn't really how things tend to work when you're an actor or a musician. So instead of create a category specifically for artists, they've put them into the category that creates an exception to the standard rules and, in the words of the official guidance document, "allows you to work
and change employers, or to be self-employed, without the need for further authorisation or to be sponsored for employment in a specific post."

VERY 'lowest common denominator'... The Public and Press would see through such a ruse immediately and mark down both she and Prince Harry accordingly.
Thanks much for finding that information, loonytick. It lays out the requirements in clear, precise language.

As far as the press and the public seeing through the ruse? I doubt it. We're talking about Daily Fail readers and commentators and their "bar" for intelligent reporting may reach my kneecaps one of these days and I'm very short. Its a lot of noise.

Besides, what the public and the press think doesn't matter worth a hill of beans. What matters is how Harry and Meghan feel about each other and have the good opinion of their families and their friends. As Meghan, herself, has stated in the Vanity Fair interview “I don’t read any press. I haven’t even read press for Suits. The people who are close to me anchor me in knowing who I am. The rest is noise.”
what the public and the press think doesn't matter worth a hill of beans.

You think ? I hope the Prince [and the Palaces] would seek to start off the relationship between Ms Markle and these two VITAL components of her future life in the very best way possible.
A spurious 'Exceptional Talent' visa wouldn't do that, and I'm sure they realise it. An HONEST 'Fiance Visa' [on the other hand] would.
If she is his chosen Bride they had better be honest about..It REALLY would be best for everyone.
What it really boils down to in all this is just one thing that is very important....*It is what both Harry and Meghan feel about each other* we and that is the rest of the world do not matter one d*mn bit to them. They will find a way to make things work for them if that is *what they want*, not want we or the world wants. It is their lives, not our lives that matter to them. Sure in the end things will be discussed with family members but not discussed with the media or the public........we here *do not matter*.
Au contraire. I think Meghan's visa won't matter one little bit. Her acting resume will not matter. Her choice of breakfast cereals will not matter nor will her navel be judged on whether its an innie or an outie.

What matters is that the BRF will get to know her as a person. Harry already does know her very well and finds her extremely suitable to walk side by side with. None of them need to explain anything to the public or the press and they won't. Most likely it will never even be released to the public domain on which type of visa Meghan enters the UK with.

They HONESTLY don't have to tell us anything whatsoever. I don't think that actually Meghan would go for the "exceptional talent" visa as if she is leaving Suits where she could have continued on probably for as long as the show gets renewed, she has other and bigger plans for her life. :D
I think that kind of visa could be quite doable for Meghan, but I do wonder if an actress in Meghan's position, no matter how skilled, would even be employable after a move to the UK that was widely seen as biding her time before an engagement. What's more, while it's ok for a girlfriend who was already acting to keep acting while dating a prince, would the BRF be ok with her taking clear steps in the direction of feeling out a potential marriage while taking on new acting jobs? I really doubt it.

It's one thing to follow the Crown Princess Mary or Queen Maxima model and try the whole living close/living in his nation thing while continuing to work in something a job that's largely done out of the public eye, like PR or finance. Acting is so very visible, and we've already seen some try to equate Meghan with the characters she's played. There would also be very real questions about whether she was cast on her own merits or due to her royal connections, especially because there's a good chance she'd only be offered stunt casting sorts of cameos out of fear that her fame would overshadow whatever show she was in if she had a real role.

I just don't see how it's really practical or possible for her to work as an actress in the UK while everyone is on engagement announcement watch. Continuing her charity work, maybe. But I suspect not truly moving until engaged is probably the most likely scenario.
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Another option for her I suppose will be a student visa. She can always chose to do a master degree in the uk (i’m sure she has the funds to cover Tuition plus living expenses), that’s easily a one to two year thing.
This way she gets to live in the uk and be close to Harry while doing something productive - to her future! Even if she’s never marries Harry - with her time.

Or will her being accepted to a master degree be seen as nepotism too in the eyes of some?
:previous: I think we have come to the ". . . but you can't please all of the people all of the time" situation. Whatever means are used to enable Meghan to reside in the UK IMO are totally irrelevant but will no doubt be totally legal as well.

evolvingdoors, welcome. You have shown us two avenues that nobody else was aware of and, in doing so, widened the scope of discussion in ways I would never have imagined.

I am going to wait (impatiently, of course) to see what happens and, when and if Meghan turns up in the UK, I have no doubt the DM et al will dig to the very centre of the earth to unearth the details, get half of it wrong and take a swipe at Harry and the BRF.

Me? I'm just hoping for a really nice wedding between two very nice people in the not too distant future.
With today being the 7th Anniversary of the Cambridge Engagement Announcement, everyone should revisit the coverage to get a glimpse on how Harry’s engagement announcement will be conducted.

It’s going to be a very busy and exciting day.
Lord, I'm sure all those people with property for sale in west London are grateful for anyone with the means to tap into that market. And then just think how much her place could be worth if she does become engaged! Harry Meghan relationship musings is an investment opportunity!! No joking!
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