Death & Funeral of Prince Henri, Count of Paris - 21 Jan. / 2 Feb. 2019


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:previous: My guess is that the late Count himself was probably not as traditional and conservative as the French Royal family in total....like Queen Fabiola he was laid to rest in relative simplicity for a Royal. Only his Arms displayed over the Chapel doors draped in purple gave an indication of his rank.

I listened to the entire Mass and simple as it was, it was also very elegant and traditional. It was sung in both Latin and French. During the Communion rite, Mozart's Ave Verum Corpus was sung...one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever composed, imo.
 
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Moonmaiden23 said:
:previous: My guess is that the late Count himself was probably not as traditional and conservative as the French Royal family in total....like Queen Fabiola he was laid to rest in relative simplicity for a Royal. Only his Arms displayed over the Chapel doors draped in purple gave an indication of his rank.

I listened to the entire Mass and simple as it was, it was also very elegant in traditional. It was sung in both Latin and French. During the Communion rite, Mozart's Ave Verum Corpus was sung...one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever composed, imo.
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Where did you see it ? Is there still an active link on ?
 
Wrong identifications from ppe agency for the members of the Orleans family?.
 
Denville said:
Its been well over 100 years since there was any royal rule in France. Do they really think it is likely to come back>?
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One needs a strongman. A De Gaulle (who was close), a Franco, a Putin. Even then it will be difficult enough.

By the way: I am not sure being Roi de France is a pleasure. When I see how Macron, Hollande, Sarkozy are mercilessly treated... The problem is that the Président de la République is so omnipresent in the machinery of state, he even overshadows the Premier Ministre, that a new King absolutely needs to be as distant from politics as possible. That needs a complete overhaul of the Constitution: from an extremely presidential 5th Republic to a strictly non-political monarchy. Without a figure as De Gaulle giving the right push, I do not see this happen.
 
Is there a picture of the duke of Parma attending? I read he might have represented his cousin but so far I haven't seen a picture of him at all.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
One needs a strongman. A De Gaulle (who was close), a Franco, a Putin. Even then it will be difficult enough.

By the way: I am not sure being Roi de France is a pleasure. When I see how Macron, Hollande, Sarkozy are mercilessly treated... The problem is that the Président de la République is so omnipresent in the machinery of state, he even overshadows the Premier Ministre, that a new King absolutely needs to be as distant from politics as possible. That needs a complete overhaul of the Constitution: from an extremely presidential 5th Republic to a strictly non-political monarchy. Without a figure as De Gaulle giving the right push, I do not see this happen.
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A Franco or a Putin in... France ? With the omnipresence of the left wing press and the unions ? You made me laugh ...:lol:
Above all you need a charismatic, popular pretendant with close links with the people and a real view on the modern France.
Clearly not the case with the Orléans, seen as out of touch and stuck in the traditional Catholic ways.
ALL is political in France, a non political Monarch would last maybe one year before being stuck in a left wing revolution ...
Sometimes i see France as an ungovernable country. Anyway it's clearly toasted for the Orléans ... for many time.
 
Somebody said:
Is there a picture of the duke of Parma attending? I read he might have represented his cousin but so far I haven't seen a picture of him at all.
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I haven't seen him either.

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In the PPE gallery the dowager duchess walks with somebody identified as Princess Claude. The watermark is over the face so I found it difficult to see.

On two other photos it seemed that the prince of Venice was accompanied by his aunt Pss Maria-Pia of Italy/Parma and her son Serge of Yugoslavia.
 
Mbruno said:
Besides, King Philippe of the Belgians is a direct descendant of King Louis Philippe of the French . The Belgian Royal House was represented, however, by Princess Léa, the widow of Prince Alexandre of Belgium.
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Very true, I had forgotten about Philippe's relations to King Louis Philippe. I just looked at Philippe's thread and it seems that he didn't have any public engagements yesterday, so he had free time to attend the funeral unless he had a private engagement that wasn't reported about. However you're right, Princess Lea was the Belgian representative, though it would've made more sense for me to send a reigning monarch or more major member of the RF.
 
HereditaryPrincess said:
Very true, I had forgotten about Philippe's relations to King Louis Philippe. I just looked at Philippe's thread and it seems that he didn't have any public engagements yesterday, so he had free time to attend the funeral unless he had a private engagement that wasn't reported about. However you're right, Princess Lea was the Belgian representative, though it would've made more sense for me to send a reigning monarch or more major member of the RF.
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Not one royal house sent their reigning monarch, so while I agree that princess Lea wasn't the obvious choice, I didn't expect Philippe. Princess Astrid (godmother to prince Gaston) was the one I expected to attend (just like princess Sibilla, godmother of Louise-Margerite, was the Luxembourg representative).
 
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Whilst I agree that I was surprised by Princess Léa attendance but perhaps the Belgian Royal Family had no real relationship with the late Count?
 
An Ard Ri said:
Whilst I agree that I was surprised by Princess Léa attendance but perhaps the Belgian Royal Family had no real relationship with the late Count?
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Indeed. Even if Astrid has enough relationship with Jean, at least enough to be named godmother to one of his kids, doesn't mean they have any relationship with the late Count. Other then a distance blood relationship. Since it was just a private funeral, that link through Jean may just not have been seen enough.
 
Marengo said:
I haven't seen him either.

--
In the PPE gallery the dowager duchess walks with somebody identified as Princess Claude. The watermark is over the face so I found it difficult to see.

On two other photos it seemed that the prince of Venice was accompanied by his aunt Pss Maria-Pia of Italy/Parma and her son Serge of Yugoslavia.
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The Duke of Parma was next to Prince Georg of Prussia (better known as Georgiy Romanov) in some interior pics.
 
An Ard Ri said:
Whilst I agree that I was surprised by Princess Léa attendance but perhaps the Belgian Royal Family had no real relationship with the late Count?
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During the life and reign of King Baudouin he maintained close ties with the Count of Paris (not the recently deceased, but his father) and with the Orleans. Gossip had it that Baudouin's step mother the Princess de Rethy wanted Baudouin to marry Anne d'Orleans. ..but Baudouin did not hit it off with the Count of Paris's daughter.:cool:

Anyway...did the Orleans send anyone to Queen Fabiola's funeral? I can't recall?
 
Moonmaiden23 said:
During the life and reign of King Baudouin he maintained close ties with the Count of Paris (not the recently deceased, but his father) and with the Orleans. Gossip had it that Baudouin's step mother the Princess de Rethy wanted Baudouin to marry Anne d'Orleans. ..but Baudouin did not hit it off with the Count of Paris's daughter.:cool:

Anyway...did the Orleans send anyone to Queen Fabiola's funeral? I can't recall?
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Yes, there was a few:flowers:

-Princess Helene
-Prince Eudes
-Princess Marie Liesse
-Princess Adelaide
 
Nico said:
A Franco or a Putin in... France ? With the omnipresence of the left wing press and the unions ? You made me laugh ...:lol: ...
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One assumes that France needs a milder version of Mr Maximilien Robespierre.
 
A Franco managed to get the Borbóns back on the throne. A De Gaulle could have managed to get a King back on the throne. After all he managed to make the switch from the Fourth to the Fifth Republic, with a never-seen centralization of power into the hands of the President. If he could do that, he also could have created a strictly non-political constitutional monarchy.

That is what I meant with a strongman. The Romanovs have no chance without a Putin parachuting them. Likewise the Habsburgers with a figure as Orbán who holds an immense majority in Hungarian Parliament. All of them controversial politicians, but there is no way that free democratic elections will see the return of a hereditary monarchy.

By the way: it seems most doubtful to me that Prince Henri (the grandfather of Prince Jean) would ever have accepted a strictly ceremonial kingship.
 
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There was a close relationship between the former Comte et Comtesse de Paris with Prince Leopold and Princess Astrid when they lived at the manoir d' Anjou. I think Princess Astrid is Princess Hélène Godmother. They attend Princess Astrid Wedding with Archduke Lorenz.
There was no close relationship between the late Comte de Paris and his second wife with King Baudouin, King Albert II and King Philippe.
Princess Lea was not asked to represent Belgium , but is was her own will. She liked to be seen and pictured and I feel sorry about the un royal way she was dressed.
 
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I have read that at the conclusion of WWII, General de Gaulle thought briefly of the restoration of the Orleans in France, but he thought that the Count of Paris was so abysmally stupid that he gave up the idea.:ohmy:

I wish I could remember where I read it....
 
Moonmaiden23 said:
I have read that at the conclusion of WWII, General de Gaulle thought briefly of the restoration of the Orleans in France, but he thought that the Count of Paris was so abysmally stupid that he gave up the idea.:ohmy:

I wish I could remember where I read it....
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That is what I have read too. The Orléans are masters in missing chances in front of open goals.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
That is what I have read too. The Orléans are masters in missing chances in front of open goals.
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To be fair, that is not an exclusive Orléans trait. It is widely reported that, following the collapse of the regime of Napoleon III, there was a monarchist majority in the French National Assembly, Legitimists and Orléanists had agreed a compromise to accept tthe childless Henri de Chambord as King, to be succeeded later by the Orléans pretender as his legal heir. Henri's demand, however, that the republican Tricolor flag be abandoned led to a collapse of the agreement and the installation of an interim republican government that ultimately became permanent.
 
Mbruno said:
To be fair, that is not an exclusive Orléans trait. It is widely reported that, following the collapse of the regime of Napoleon III, there was a monarchist majority in the French National Assembly, Legitimists and Orléanists had agreed a compromise to accept tthe childless Henri de Chambord as King, to be succeeded later by the Orléans pretender as his legal heir. Henri's demand, however, that the republican Tricolor flag be abandoned led to a collapse of the agreement and the installation of an interim republican government that ultimately became permanent.
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Why did the monarchist majority not simply offer the crown to another candidate who would agree to the tricolor flag?
 
This is out of topic. Sorry
Moonmaiden you should have read the article of Mrs Marlène Koening (Royal Musings) I mentionned above.
 
Tatiana Maria said:
Why did the monarchist majority not simply offer the crown to another candidate who would agree to the tricolor flag?
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I am not sure, but I assume the Legitimist faction wouldn’t accept another candidate. Since Henri was the last living agnatic descendant of Louis XV and had no issue of his own, the succession would pass automatically to the Orléans as all other more senior legitimate agnatic branches of the dynasty ( i.e. the living descendants of Louis XIV ) were disqualified not only by the Treaty of Utrecht, but also for being foreign ( Spanish or Italian).

Apparently, they decided to wait for Henri to pass away to offer the Crown then to Louis Philippe. By then, the republic had already become consolidated though and support for the restoration of the monarchy had faded.

Maybe the French members can provide additional information.
 
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Not on this thread concerning the late Henri Comte de Paris.
 
There were more Bourbon-Parmas:

Le prince Charles Xavier de Bourbon de Parme, Duc de Parme
Le prince Sixte-Henri de Bourbon de Parme (uncle of the Duke)
Le prince Charles-Emmanuel de Bourbon de Parme (cousin of the Duke)
La Comtesse de Busset, Ariane de Bourbon-Busset (great-aunt of the Duke)

https://www.riposte-catholique.fr/archives/149692
 
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I wonder when the last time (before Saturday) was that Carlos met his uncle... Two sides of the divide within the family.
 
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