Grand Duke Georgi, son and heir of Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna (2008-Oct. 2021)

[Jeannie]

Query about GD Georgi's title's

If Grand Duke Georgi's maternal grandmother, Princess Leonida, was called "Her Serene Highness Princess Leonida Georgievna Bagration-Moukhransky" does that title travel down to GD Georgi or was it only his grandmother's title because she was the direct issue of the Georgian crown prince?

I noticed that his mother's claim to the Russian throne seems to hinge on the royalty (as opposed to nobility) of Princess Leonida's birth, and I can't find anywhere that he or Grand Duchess Maria are titled a prince/princess of Georgia, even if it is their cousins who are the main claimants to the Georgian throne.

Basically I'm asking could GD Georgi be called a Bagration-Moukhransky prince by birth or would his 2nd cousin (claimant to Georgian throne) have to give him the title?

I know a lot of the royal families reigning monarch's cousins are titled 'prince' or 'princess' of that family and I was curious as to why this doesn't crop up with GD Georgi, if the Georgian royal connection is so important to them - or is it politically expedient for them as Russians not to be connected with the Georgians?

Hope this isn't a dumb question....

With thanks,
Jeannie

 

[Lenora]

You know,people who know him appreciate his work,as well as his mother's ,I do think.But anyway Georgi Romanov is official heir to the throne of Russia.

 

[kirillovec]

Grand Duchess Maria is the Head of the House of Russia, and therefore Queen of Georgia. This applies to the Grand Duke Georgy.

 

[MAfan]

Georgi is not a member of Bagration dynasty, thus he can't claim or bear any of the titles of that House. His grandmother was born Princess Bagration-Mukhraneli, but her title didn't transmit to her descendants.

 

[branchg]

Grand Duchess Maria is the Head of the House of Russia, and therefore Queen of Georgia. This applies to the Grand Duke Georgy.

Georgia is an independent nation and her father, Grand Duke Vladimir, ruled the Bagrations were of royal rank in 1946, with the right to be "HRH Prince/Princess of Georgia".

Given that decision, Maria would never claim to be Queen of Georgia as Tsarina de-jure of all Russias, especially since it would weaken the Vladimirovchi's claim to be the undisputed pretender to the throne due to her cousins' unequal marriages.

 

[reginalix]

Exactly, Georgia is an independant nation now. Also Maria «*Tsarina of all Russias*» or Nicholas «*Tsar of all Russias*» gave up the «*subtittle*» «*King or Queen of Georgia*».

Furthermore in imperial Russia, only Bagration Gruzinsky family had the highest rank among the princes of the Empire beside Yussupov, Dolgoruki, Odoievsky, Galitzin... because descendants of sovereign princes, kings, khans...
From a strictly Georgian point of view, in the former Georgian kingdom, above all dismemberment then the «*arrival" of the Russians, only the Bagration Gruzinsky were crown princes. They are the royal pretenders today.
Bagration Mukhransky, branch of the deceased Princess Leonida, were registered in the registers of the Georgian nobility as junior and aristocratic branch of the royal branch.

 

[NotAPretender]

If Grand Duke Georgi's maternal grandmother, Princess Leonida, was called "Her Serene Highness Princess Leonida Georgievna Bagration-Moukhransky" does that title travel down to GD Georgi or was it only his grandmother's title because she was the direct issue of the Georgian crown prince?

I noticed that his mother's claim to the Russian throne seems to hinge on the royalty (as opposed to nobility) of Princess Leonida's birth, and I can't find anywhere that he or Grand Duchess Maria are titled a prince/princess of Georgia, even if it is their cousins who are the main claimants to the Georgian throne.

Basically I'm asking could GD Georgi be called a Bagration-Moukhransky prince by birth or would his 2nd cousin (claimant to Georgian throne) have to give him the title?

I know a lot of the royal families reigning monarch's cousins are titled 'prince' or 'princess' of that family and I was curious as to why this doesn't crop up with GD Georgi, if the Georgian royal connection is so important to them - or is it politically expedient for them as Russians not to be connected with the Georgians?

Hope this isn't a dumb question....

With thanks,
Jeannie

No such thing as a "dumb" question - I've always been impressed with the knowledge sharing here.

Exactly, Georgia is an independant nation now. Also Maria «*Tsarina of all Russias*» or Nicholas «*Tsar of all Russias*» gave up the «*subtittle*» «*King or Queen of Georgia*».

Furthermore in imperial Russia, only Bagration Gruzinsky family had the highest rank among the princes of the Empire beside Yussupov, Dolgoruki, Odoievsky, Galitzin... because descendants of sovereign princes, kings, khans...
From a strictly Georgian point of view, in the former Georgian kingdom, above all dismemberment then the «*arrival" of the Russians, only the Bagration Gruzinsky were crown princes. They are the royal pretenders today.
Bagration Mukhransky, branch of the deceased Princess Leonida, were registered in the registers of the Georgian nobility as junior and aristocratic branch of the royal branch.

Well said, and a major impediment to Maria/Georgy's claims.

 

[branchg]

Exactly, Georgia is an independant nation now. Also Maria «*Tsarina of all Russias*» or Nicholas «*Tsar of all Russias*» gave up the «*subtittle*» «*King or Queen of Georgia*».

Furthermore in imperial Russia, only Bagration Gruzinsky family had the highest rank among the princes of the Empire beside Yussupov, Dolgoruki, Odoievsky, Galitzin... because descendants of sovereign princes, kings, khans...
From a strictly Georgian point of view, in the former Georgian kingdom, above all dismemberment then the «*arrival" of the Russians, only the Bagration Gruzinsky were crown princes. They are the royal pretenders today.
Bagration Mukhransky, branch of the deceased Princess Leonida, were registered in the registers of the Georgian nobility as junior and aristocratic branch of the royal branch.

Yes, the Mukhransky line was always junior and inscribed in the Fifth Book of Nobility during Imperial Russia. This is the main point of contention among the Romanovs regarding Maria's claim to have succeeded her late father, Grand Duke Vladimir, as Head of the Imperial House.

In their view, Maria is also morganatic as her mother was not royal and her marriage to Vladimir was unequal. Therefore, the headship passed to Nicholas Romanovich after Vladimir's death (although technically Dimitri Ilyinsky is the senior male morganaut) as Maria is a woman.

 

[kell]

TIME: R.I.P.--At Long Last last lines had me laughing i had to admit ok just to clearify its about him and the last paragraphs where funny when it talked about gergeo and made russ kinda rite

 

[Lenora]

A Very Happy Birthday to the Prince Georgii Romanov!Today he celebrates his 30th birthday.

 

[Cory]

Grand Duke George visits Russia to rarely in my opinion.

 

[CelticGodes]

I'm a tad late to the party. But a fact that might need to be looked at for the Grand Duke's " possible" royal marriages is hemophilia. (I have this disease so it's given that I think of it lol) While Queen Victoria's children were known to be carriers and the Grand Duke would have come from an alternate lineage, its still something to be concerned about.

Many physicians think that Victoria's carrier status was not a " genetic mutation" but had in fact been part of European Royal lineages for generations. If that is true then the houses of Western Europe that married into lines within the Romanov's would need to be genetically tested prior to marriage.
So that would rule out both Princess Eugenie and Princess Beatrice. As direct descendants (twicely) of Victoria.

Just my random thinking.


(Great site! Will be an avid addict shortly!)

 

[Cory]

Grand Duke George could marry a Greek Princess, a Bulgarian Princess or a German Princess.

 

[Esmerelda]

I'm a tad late to the party. But a fact that might need to be looked at for the Grand Duke's " possible" royal marriages is hemophilia. (I have this disease so it's given that I think of it lol) While Queen Victoria's children were known to be carriers and the Grand Duke would have come from an alternate lineage, its still something to be concerned about.

Many physicians think that Victoria's carrier status was not a " genetic mutation" but had in fact been part of European Royal lineages for generations. If that is true then the houses of Western Europe that married into lines within the Romanov's would need to be genetically tested prior to marriage.
So that would rule out both Princess Eugenie and Princess Beatrice. As direct descendants (twicely) of Victoria.

Just my random thinking.

(Great site! Will be an avid addict shortly!)

No, it wouldn't rule out Beatrice and Eugenie as the haemophilia gene is carried on the x chromosome and is generally inherited from the mother (unless the father has haemophilia, which Prince Andrew doesn't. In fact, I don't think any of the Queen's descendants carry the 'Royal haemophilia' gene as they are descended from George VI. Of course, they could inherit the gene from non-royal ancestors.

Even if this issue did apply, they could still get married if they truly loved each other. They might choose not to have children or use IVF.

 

[Cory]

Grand Duke must have an equal marriage like all his ancestors.

 

[CelticGodes]

No, it wouldn't rule out Beatrice and Eugenie as the haemophilia gene is carried on the x chromosome and is generally inherited from the mother (unless the father has haemophilia, which Prince Andrew doesn't. In fact, I don't think any of the Queen's descendants carry the 'Royal haemophilia' gene as they are descended from George VI. Of course, they could inherit the gene from non-royal ancestors.

Even if this issue did apply, they could still get married if they truly loved each other. They might choose not to have children or use IVF.

The theory of X-chromosome inherited Hemo, while supported medically has also recently became more complex. What was thought to have only " Hemophilia" in the Royals, has now been shown to have von Willebrands Factor VIII clotting disorders as well. Some hematologists believe that whether someone inherits Hemo A, Hemo B, or vWD can be traced to both MALE and FEMALE ancestors.
For instance, von Willebrands Disease is far more common than originally thought. And many women who died in childbirth due to excessive bleeding were in fact " bleeders". The Royals are full of them. It's theorized by some in the American Hemo Assoc. that the close cross/inbreeding of royal lines (with close relations) could have altered the 8th Factor. *shrug*

Also: There would be no way the Duke of York, Prince of Wales or QEII would give the Royal Consent to a marriage to the Imperial House of Romanov. No financial stability. The Princesses would be in essence "lowering" their standards as 5th and 6th in succession to the Throne of the Commonwealth.
Just my .02 cents.

(Oh, and it is very possible to be both a hemophiliac carrier, a symptomatic carrier and have von Willebrands Disease. I carry Hemo A, and have vWD. )
Unfortunately with medical records so private it is hard to know if any current Royals have been afflicted. ...

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

But would financial stability stand in the way of royal consent to a marriage? There does not appear to be an impediment to a British royal marrying an Orthodox believer.

 

[Cory]

I do not suppose Grand Duke George will marry an English Princess.

 

[CelticGodes]

But would financial stability stand in the way of royal consent to a marriage? There does not appear to be an impediment to a British royal marrying an Orthodox believer.

I would think that financial stability would certainly factor into Royal Consent. A Royal life isn't a cheap endeavor.
Royal Families have always tried to seek financial strength in marriage. In William and Kate's case, William's financial future is more than secure as an Heir to the Throne.
The Grand Duke has little as far as financial security. He has a Title, yes.

 

[genegirl99]

What would happen if Grand Duke George would want to marry a commoner? It seems to me that it would defeat GD Maria's argument over the unequal marriages of the cousins...

 

[CelticGodes]

I think his mother would have a "Royal Fit" She is serious about his duty to the Fatherland and his duty to follow dynastic law.

The drama queen in me would love to watch that whole scenario go down though!

 

[nascarlucy]

Dynastic law my understanding of it is that you have to marry someone of equal ranking.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

And I think the world is running out of royals of equal rank

 

[genegirl99]

Dynastic law my understanding of it is that you have to marry someone of equal ranking.

I understand that, but I'm just curious to see the reaction....

 

[RubyPrincess168]

Dynastic law my understanding of it is that you have to marry someone of equal ranking.

Which is a part of the dispute over their claim to the Romanov throne. I have a hard time believing he'll find a suitable wife willing to take on the "are-they-or-aren't-they" saga. And certainly $$$ has to factor into it at some point.

 

[nascarlucy]

Regardless of whether Grand Duke Georgi marries someone of equal ranking or doesn't, there is still a controversy about who is the rightful heir. Some indiviudals think he is. Others don't. This dispute will not go away with a marriage to a woman of equal ranking. Will be interesting to see how it will unfold.

 

[Cory]

Grand Duke is the only Heir of the Grand Duchess Maria.

 

[Russophile]

Grand Duke is the only Heir of the Grand Duchess Maria.

Yes, Lucy means that the other side of the family, the Princes Romanov from the Nicholaevitches.

 

[branchg]

What would happen if Grand Duke George would want to marry a commoner? It seems to me that it would defeat GD Maria's argument over the unequal marriages of the cousins...

It would indeed be a serious problem in Maria's eyes. I doubt it is much of a problem for anyone else since the rest of the family long gave up trying to stay in compliance with the Pauline Laws and considers them to be irrelevant today.

There is no throne or any hope of a throne, so the argument about equal marriages is rather academic at this point. And George is likely to find it very difficult to find a royal to marry, especially since the prospective bride would have to convert to Orthodoxy as well.

 

[Cory]

A german protestant Princess could convert to orthodoxy.