Luxembourg Succession & Titles

[Somebody]

Why? All over the world, husbands don't share their wives' titles, so why is it specifically unfair to Alexandra?

Even within her own family: Her cousin Marie Christine's husband is still a count (not an archduke) and her cousin Marie-Gabrielle's husband is mr Willms (not HRH prince Antonius of Nassau).

But in Belgium (offspring of Astrid), the Netherlands (offspring of Margriet) and Sweden (offspring of Madeleine), in hindsight, they regret the ease with which the princely titles have been distributed, with a flood of Von Österreich-Estes, Van Vollenhovens and O'Neills being a member of the Royal House and having a princely title. Not for nothing in all three named countries the titulature has been limited, basically to children of the King and children of the Heir, regardless the gender. Luxembourg will undoubtedly go the same way. If Alexandra marries a prince de Lobkowicz, her children will be princes and princess de Lobkowicz anyway. She has it in her own hand if she is attached to titles for her offspring.

Probably at some point but so far Henri created more princes and princesses of Nassau instead of fewer (Jean's children and Louis' former wife and children). Moreover, the new house law already provides a limitation/a rather easy solution: by not approving a marriage wife and children will become counts/countesses of Nassau instead of princes/princesses of Nassau.

I believe Gabriel and Noah's titles are personal titles that cannot be passed on (as they would need a recognized marriage for that to happen, which is impossible; so their wives and children will be countess and counts/countesses if I am not mistaken).
Amalia cannot pass on her title (the only exception would be if she had been the heir apparent but with the upcoming birth of her cousin that's not likely to happen). So, Liam is currently the only one who can pass on his title in his generation. If they would want to limit the titles, his grandfather or uncle could decide not to approve his marriage. It will probably depend on whether Guillaume and Stephanie will have more than one child and whether his sister will have offspring (so depending on how secure the succession is).
In addition, Sebastien might have sons but as he isn't married yet, we'll have to wait and see.

Prince Guillaume's three sons could also pass on their 'prince of Nassau' titles, however, I wouldn't be surprised if Henri would 'suggest' they don't ask for permission. Unless, we should interpret the house law not to apply to them as they are male line descendants of the former head of the house, not of the current one.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Well said. Grand Duke Henri was responsible for manufacturing the "flood" of princes and princesses of Nassau (in addition, he created Prince Robert's children at the same time as Prince Jean's), so it is unlikely he would be sympathetic to limiting this title to children of the Grand Duke and the Heir.

I am not even sure that the sons of Prince Louis, Prince Jean, and Prince Robert cannot pass their titles on. In the grand-ducal decree of 2004 the title Princess/Prince of Nassau was accorded to "the descendants", and not merely "the children", of Princes Robert and Jean:

L'épouse de Son Altesse Royale le Prince Robert, née Julie ONGARO est autorisée à porter le titre d'Altesse Royale, Princesse de Nassau.

Les descendants issus de cette union de même que les descendants issus de l'union de Son Altesse Royale le Prince Jean avec Madame Hélène VESTUR sont qualifiés de la même manière.

Why? All over the world, husbands don't share their wives' titles, so why is it specifically unfair to Alexandra?

The original poster did not say that it was "specifically" unfair to Alexandra. As it was, Princess Alexandra was the topic of the specific question, even if women's inequality exists in naming practices all over the world.

But in Belgium (offspring of Astrid), the Netherlands (offspring of Margriet) and Sweden (offspring of Madeleine), in hindsight, they regret the ease with which the princely titles have been distributed, with a flood of Von Österreich-Estes, Van Vollenhovens and O'Neills being a member of the Royal House and having a princely title. Not for nothing in all three named countries the titulature has been limited, basically to children of the King and children of the Heir, regardless the gender.

What leads you to conclude that Belgium and Sweden "regret the ease with which the princely titles have been distributed, with a flood of Von Österreich-Estes [...] and O'Neills" (and the children of Prince Laurent and Prince Carl Philip bear the same princely titles as their cousins, so do they also regret the "flood of Coombs and Hellqvists"?) and have limited them "to children of the King and children of the Heir"? Nothing has been stated in Sweden about the future children of Prince Oscar. In Belgium it is evident from the Belgian king's decree in 2015 that, if nothing else, Princes Gabriel, Emmanuel, Nicolas, and Aymeric can pass princely titles to their children, and one can assume Prince Joachim will pass a princely title (and an archducal title) to his children in the same manner as his brother.

 

[Blog Real]

In Belgium prince Lorenz (husband of Princess Astrid) was granted the title of Prince of Belgium.
In Sweden the King wanted to give the title of Prince to Chris (husband of Princess Madeleine) but he refused.
So it's not impossible that Princess Alexandra's future husband could have the title of prince.

 

[Somebody]

In Belgium prince Lorenz (husband of Princess Astrid) was granted the title of Prince of Belgium.
In Sweden the King wanted to give the title of Prince to Chris (husband of Princess Madeleine) but he refused.
So it's not impossible that Princess Alexandra's future husband could have the title of prince.

Nothing is impossible but I am sure that Henri considered that option when he revised the house laws not that many years ago. At that time he decided that children will bear their father's surname and that husbands of princesses of Luxembourg and/or Nassau will NOT become a prince; the only exception being the husbands of either the grand duchess of the hereditary grand duchess.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

If a hereditary grand duchess marries a foreign prince, does he receive the title of Hereditary Grand Duke?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Yes, and I understand that. But at least the Grand Duke should offer a title to Princess Alexandra's future husband, since the wives of Princess Alexandra's brothers also have titles, it would be fairer even if Alexandra's children had no titles.

But no any female spouse has been offered a title either: Joan Douglas-Dillon, María Teresa Mestre, Hélène Vestur, Diane de Guerre, Sibilla Weiller, Stéphanie de Lannoy, Claire Lademacher, Tessy Antony, etc. In principle all these ladies are addressed by their husband's style and title, purely by courtesy, like is done all over Europe.

This old-fashioned (but most clear) form is still used in Belgian nobility: de barones/la baronne Renaud de Villenfagne de Sorinnes, de gravin/la comtesse Thierry Meeûs d'Argenteuil, de burggravin/la vicomtesse Paul de Jonghe d'Ardoye.

La pincesse Félix de Luxembourg is a more accurate form to designate the position of Claire. Or de prinses Constantijn der Nederlanden for Laurentien. This is no longer used and "princess Claire" or "princess Laurentien" looks like they have received an own royal title, but they have received nothing at all. In essence there is no difference with a Pieter van Vollenhoven, a Salvador Moncada or a Christopher O'Neill who received no title either. The only difference is just the custom to address a female spouse with her husband's title.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

But no any female spouse has been offered a title either: Joan Douglas-Dillon, María Teresa Mestre, Hélène Vestur, Diane de Guerre, Sibilla Weiller, Stéphanie de Lannoy, Claire Lademacher, Tessy Antony, etc. In principle all these ladies are addressed by their husband's style and title, purely by courtesy, like is done all over Europe.

The house laws accord the titles legally to both the princes and their female spouses, wording it in much the same way as the Belgian royal decrees: "In the public and private acts which concern them". Indeed, the wives are addressed by their titles in legal acts, including the divorce judgment of Princess Tessy.

The Grand Duke has usually shown himself to not be in favor of addressing female spouses of royal princes by courtesy titles. The wife of Prince Jean, who did not receive a princess title under the house law, is addressed by the grand-ducal court as Countess Diane of Nassau, rather than Princess Diane (or Princess Jean) of Luxembourg.

In any event, a courtesy title is a title, and I am not expecting one to be given to the husband of Princess Alexandra.

While "ladies are addressed by their husband's style and title, purely by courtesy" is true for many European countries, it is not the case "all over Europe". In the United Kingdom, for instance, a wife legally takes on her husband's title upon marriage, although she may choose not to be addressed by it (royalty watchers have often discussed this in relation to the Duchess of Cornwall).

If a hereditary grand duchess marries a foreign prince, does he receive the title of Hereditary Grand Duke?

No, the husband of a hereditary grand duchess will receive only the title of Prince of Luxembourg through the current house laws (for a translation, refer to the link in message #117). He will not even receive the title of Prince of Nassau or the last name of Nassau.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

She never had any to lose.

She did indeed. And I wonder if the transitional provision in the restated version of 2012 of the 1907 house law, in reference to membership of the advisory council, suggests that the Grand Duke's sisters probably did not lose their succession rights on marriage.

Décret grand-ducal du 18 juin 2012 portant coordination du Statut de famille du 5 mai 1907. - Legilux

Der Beirat besteht aus

a) den drei ältesten ehelichen Nachkommen ersten Grades des Hauschefs und
b) den zwei ältesten ehelichen Nachkommen ersten Grades des vorhergehenden Hauschefs, der amtierende Hauschef ausgenommen,

unter der Voraussetzung, dass sie berechtigte Mitglieder des Großherzoglichen Hauses sind.

[...]

Unter Bezugnahme auf die im Jahre 2008 von der Regierung angekündigte Zurücknahme des im Gesetz vom 15. Dezember 1988 verankerten Vorbehaltes in Bezug auf das Übereinkommen zur Beseitigung jeder Form von Diskriminierung der Frau vom 18. Dezember 1979 wird das Recht zu hausverfassungsmäßigen Betätigungen der Agnaten erweitert auf die berechtigten weiblichen Mitglieder des Großherzoglichen Hauses und findet erstmals Anwendung auf Unsere Deszendenz, sowie, im Falle der Anwendung des gegenwärtigen § 9, Absatz 1, Buchstabe b, auf die weiblichen Mitglieder der Großherzoglichen Familie.

Family Bylaws Concerning the House Law of the House of Luxembourg-Nassau

The advisory council consists of

a) the three oldest marital first grade descendants of the head of the house
b) the two oldest first grade descendants born within wedlock of the previous head of the house with the exception of the current head of the house, on the condition that they are entitled members of the house.

[...]

In reference to the 2008 government revocation announcement of the law of December 15th, 1988, anchoring restriction concerning the convention of the elimination of all forms of discrimination of women of December 18th, 1979, the house-constitutional activities of the agnates are extended to the entitled female members of the Grand Ducal House and is applied for the first time to Our descent, and also, in case of the application of current § 9 (1b), to the female members of the Grand Ducal Family.

That's exactly what I referred to regarding the Nassau pact not being clear. Which is why the 1907 law was needed to provide further interpretation.

We can disagree, but I would not refer to it as "unclear" or "further interpretation" because the original pact did not address the issue, therefore there was no interpretation to be made. It merely indicated that when the throne passed or was expected to pass to a female, then a new succession law ought to be promulgated, which happened in 1907.

I guess it is a matter of perspective. I believe the Nassau pact stipulated the Salic Law. However, in the event of a discontinuation of the monarchy due to that law, the closest heir of the last male would succeed. In the communication regarding the change it was worded as 'exclusion':

Les femmes étaient donc exclues de l'ordre de succession, sauf dans l'hypothèse de l'inexistence de tout successeur masculin.2

It stipulated that upon the extinction of the male heirs in the house of Nassau, the oldest daughter of the last male, assuming he had daughters (otherwise, the closest female in the Nassau family) would succeed him.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/nassau.htm#42

Article 42 also stated that new succession laws should then be created to decide who should succeed the female heir, as the Nassau family pact did not address this. Under the original laws of the family pact, female-line descendants could not be heirs; if the last male's oldest daughter predeceased him, his next oldest daughter (rather than his oldest daughter's children) would inherit. This was dealt with by the 1907 law. [...]

Mémorial A n° 37 de 1907 - Legilux

Happily, the updated website included a better explanation of the old order of succession. Although it continues to use the term Salic rather than semi-Salic, it at least is more explicit tthat princesses have always had rights of succession and that the 1907 law was passed not for the benefit of Marie-Adélaïde, who already was the heiress, but for the benefit of her younger sisters.


https://monarchie.lu/fr/le-chef-de-letat/la-monarchie-constitutionnelle

Ordre de succession

[...]

Le premier chapitre du pacte de famille de 1783 décrit les possessions souveraines de la Maison de Nassau, et le deuxième chapitre est consacré à l’ordre de succession. [...] À défaut de descendance mâle en ligne directe et en ligne collatérale dans les deux branches, la couronne était transmise par ordre de primogéniture à la descendance féminine de la dynastie régnante.

[...]

En 1906, le Grand-Duc Guillaume IV pressent que son état de santé s’aggrave et que la question de la succession se pose, puisque six filles sont nées de son mariage avec Marie-Anne de Bragance. Il édite donc un nouveau statut de famille pour garantir à ses filles la succession sur le trône. Celui-ci reprend en fait l’article 42 du pacte de famille, qui stipule qu’après l’extinction de tous les membres masculins de la Maison de Nassau, la succession en ligne féminine s’applique. Le statut de 1907 prévoit en outre que les princesses puînées seront appelées à la succession à défaut de descendant mâle de Grande-Duchesse Marie-Adélaïde.

 

[Somebody]

As SirGyamfi1 mentioned, the family of the bride is French and uses the family name de Bourbon-Parme. De Borbón-Parma would be the Spanish variant of the name.

Yes. The title is French, and France has long recognized legitimation by the subsequent marriage of the parents.

The grand-ducal court of Luxembourg (Victoria is a member of the grand-ducal family of Luxembourg on her mother's side) styled Victoria as "S.A.R. la Princesse Victoria de Bourbon Parme" when she attended the centenary of Grand Duke Jean.

Thanks! I noticed that they also recognize Felix (son of Constantin and Kathryn) as 'HRH prince Felix of Nassau' - which is a bit strange given that Gabriel and Noah at first were only 'counts' and were elevated to royal highnesses and princes of Nassaus only several years later - while apparently Louis' cousin (also without rights to the throne) was able to pass on his title (HRH prince of Nassau) to his son that was born out of wedlock immediately after getting married.

So, does Luxembourg nowadays award a title to any child born before marriage upon the subsequent marriage of their parents? Or is this a new rule for the Nassau title? And will it apply to all family members or only to those further from the throne?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The correct name of the Luxembourgian noble family is De Bourbon de Parme. The incorporation of Prince Félix into the Nobility of the Grand-Duchy of Luxembourg was the base for the incorporation of the children of the late Duke of Parma into the Nobility of the Netherlands.

Incorporation is only possible when the Dutch national has a title which is enlisted "in a comparable system of Nobility".

Arrêté grand-ducal du 5 novembre 1919 admettant dans la Noblesse du Grand-Duché le Prince Félix de Bourbon de Parme

Nous CHARLOTTE, par la grâce de Dieu, Grande-Duchesse de Luxembourg, Duchesse de Nassau, etc., etc., etc.;

Voulant donner une marque publique de Notre affection et de Notre bienveillance à Notre cher Cousin Félix Marie Vincent Prince de Bourbon de Parme, né à Schwarzau, le 28 septembre 1895, trosième fils de Notre cher Oncle, Son Altesse Royale Henri Marie Albert Ferdinand Charles Pie Louis Antonin de Bourbon, duc de Parme, Plaisance etc., et de Notre chère Tante, Son Altesse Royale la duchesse douairière Marie-Antonia de Parme, née princesse de Bragance, Infante de Portugal;

Vu l'art. 40 de la Constitution;

Sur le rapport de Notre Ministre d'État, Président du Gouvernement, et après délibération du Gouvernement en Conseil;

Avons trouvé bon et entendu:

D'admettre dans la noblesse de Notre Grand-Duché de Luxembourg le dit Notre cher Cousin Félix Marie Vincent, Prince de Bourbon de Parme et de lui conférer en outre le titre de Prince de Luxembourg, conformément aux Lettres patentes qui Lui seront délivrées.

Notre Ministre d'État, Président du Gouvernement est chargé de l'exécution du présent arrêté.


Château de Berg
le 5 novembre 1919

C h a r l o t t e .

Le Ministre d'État,
Président du Gouvernement

E. Reuter.

 

[Stefan]

Thanks! I noticed that they also recognize Felix (son of Constantin and Kathryn) as 'HRH prince Felix of Nassau' - which is a bit strange given that Gabriel and Noah at first were only 'counts' and were elevated to royal highnesses and princes of Nassaus only several years later - while apparently Louis' cousin (also without rights to the throne) was able to pass on his title (HRH prince of Nassau) to his son that was born out of wedlock immediately after getting married.

Actually Gabriel and Noah as well as their mother Tessy where not even Count but only De Nassau until their Grandfather elevated them to Princes of Nassau.

 

[Somebody]

Actually Gabriel and Noah as well as their mother Tessy where not even Count but only De Nassau until their Grandfather elevated them to Princes of Nassau.

Thanks, you are of course right. Jean's children were count and countess of Nassau in between but not Gabriel and Noah.

 

[Stefan]

Thanks, you are of course right. Jean's children were count and countess of Nassau in between but not Gabriel and Noah.

And at first Jean's children where only Nassau.
I think it would be better to have those without succession rights as Count/Countess of Nassau to make a difference between them and those of approved marriages who also have succession rights like the children of Prince Guillaume and Prince Félix. And i think at first when the title Count/Countess of Nassau was introduced this was also the intention.

 

[Somebody]

And at first Jean's children where only Nassau.
I think it would be better to have those without succession rights as Count/Countess of Nassau to make a difference between them and those of approved marriages who also have succession rights like the children of Prince Guillaume and Prince Félix. And i think at first when the title Count/Countess of Nassau was introduced this was also the intention.

Yes, and it was confirmed in the Family Bylaws of 2012, see Article 4b:

2) the second and further grade male line marital descendants of the head of the house; with the exception of the offspring of the member of the house called upon to succeed to the throne according to the laws of primogeniture (item 1); and their wives by marriage according to the house rules, have the style of Royal Highness, their first name and the family name “zu Nassau” (“de Nassau”) and the title Prince or Princess of Nassau, etc. etc.

3) those who conducted a marriage without the consent of the head of the house, the family name “zu Nassau” (“de Nassau”) as well as their previous title. The wives and legitimate offspring of this marriage bear their first name and the family name “zu Nassau” (“de Nassau”) as well as the title Count or Countess of Nassau.

So, according to 2) Amalia and Liam are royal highnesses and prince(ss) of Nassau. However, both Louis' and Jean's children should have been Count(ess) of Nassau (with probably the exception of those born out of wedlock) - a title that can be conferred to legitimate offspring of the marriage (elsewhere the term 'marital descendants' and 'born within a marriage' are used).

However, the Head of the House also has the possibility to award different titles to individuals, so I guess we would need to look at the exact wording of the act by which both Jean's and Louis' children got their titles... Unfortunately, there are no publicly available decrees for Tessy, Gabriel and Noah but only a press release(!) - there seem to be decrees for Jean's children, so if anyone has a link, please share.

I agree that it would have been much wiser to just stick with the rules instead of creating an exception for almost any male-line descendent who wasn't a prince(ss) by birth. Which in the case of Gabriel, Tessy and Noah was done both by not making them count(ess) in the first place (see for example this explanation by Luxarazzi - referring to the Arrete Grand-ducal from 1995) and by elevating them to prince and princess later on.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I would follow a system in which only children of the present, the future and a former Grand-Duke are HRH Prince(ss) of Luxembourg, Prince(ss) of Nassau.

All legal offspring to any junior Prince(ss) of Luxembourg then is Count(ess) of Nassau as a hereditary noble title following the rules of the Letters Patent. It would make it more selective and exclusive to be a HRH Prince(ss) of Luxembourg, Prince(ss) of Nassau.

 

[Somebody]

I would follow a system in which only children of the present, the future and a former Grand-Duke are HRH Prince(ss) of Luxembourg, Prince(ss) of Nassau.

All legal offspring to any junior Prince(ss) of Luxembourg then is Count(ess) of Nassau as a hereditary noble title following the rules of the Letters Patent. It would make it more selective and exclusive to be a HRH Prince(ss) of Luxembourg, Prince(ss) of Nassau.

They already differentiate between princes of Luxembourg (for those you suggest) vs princes of Nassau (for others). I don't necessarily think that off-spring of reigning royal houses require lower titles than those of defunct monarchies who remain princes and princesses. In addition, they can also claim the title of 'princes de Bourbon de Parme' - and indirectly they are doing that whenever they are using the style of Royal Highness as that is tied to the Bourbon-Parma title (except for the Grand Duke and Hereditary Grand Duke and spouses if I am not mistaken - they already used the style of royal highness before Charlotte's marriage to her cousin Félix).

 

[An Ard Ri]

When did the Grand Ducal family stop using the Grand Ducal Highness style and became Royal Highness?

 

[Somebody]

When did the Grand Ducal family stop using the Grand Ducal Highness style and became Royal Highness?

When upon the marriage of grand duchess Charlotte with HRH prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma (de Bourbon de Parme) the grand duchess (and their subsequent off-spring) also became princes and princesses of Bourbon-Parma - which has the style of royal highness.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The correct name of the Luxembourgian noble family is De Bourbon de Parme. The incorporation of Prince Félix into the Nobility of the Grand-Duchy of Luxembourg was the base for the incorporation of the children of the late Duke of Parma into the Nobility of the Netherlands.

Incorporation is only possible when the Dutch national has a title which is enlisted "in a comparable system of Nobility".

Arrêté grand-ducal du 5 novembre 1919 admettant dans la Noblesse du Grand-Duché le Prince Félix de Bourbon de Parme

Nous CHARLOTTE, par la grâce de Dieu, Grande-Duchesse de Luxembourg, Duchesse de Nassau, etc., etc., etc.;

Voulant donner une marque publique de Notre affection et de Notre bienveillance à Notre cher Cousin Félix Marie Vincent Prince de Bourbon de Parme, né à Schwarzau, le 28 septembre 1895, trosième fils de Notre cher Oncle, Son Altesse Royale Henri Marie Albert Ferdinand Charles Pie Louis Antonin de Bourbon, duc de Parme, Plaisance etc., et de Notre chère Tante, Son Altesse Royale la duchesse douairière Marie-Antonia de Parme, née princesse de Bragance, Infante de Portugal;

Vu l'art. 40 de la Constitution;

Sur le rapport de Notre Ministre d'État, Président du Gouvernement, et après délibération du Gouvernement en Conseil;

Avons trouvé bon et entendu:

D'admettre dans la noblesse de Notre Grand-Duché de Luxembourg le dit Notre cher Cousin Félix Marie Vincent, Prince de Bourbon de Parme et de lui conférer en outre le titre de Prince de Luxembourg, conformément aux Lettres patentes qui Lui seront délivrées.

Notre Ministre d'État, Président du Gouvernement est chargé de l'exécution du présent arrêté.


Château de Berg
le 5 novembre 1919

C h a r l o t t e .

Le Ministre d'État,
Président du Gouvernement

E. Reuter.

Good point! The grand-ducal decree is in this link: https://legilux.public.lu/eli/etat/leg/agd/1919/11/05/n1/jo

So, does Luxembourg nowadays award a title to any child born before marriage upon the subsequent marriage of their parents? Or is this a new rule for the Nassau title? And will it apply to all family members or only to those further from the throne?

The same titles apply to marital children born before and after the marriage of their parents.

Luxembourg recognizes children as legitimate upon the subsequent marriage of their parents. Article 330, paragraph 1 of the Civil Code states: "All children born outside of marriage, for whom parentage is legally established, are automatically legitimated by the subsequent marriage of their parents".

The wording in § 4b of the updated family bylaw (which is quoted in Somebody's post #136) is "die eheliche Nachkommen", translated correctly by Luxarazzi as "marital descendants". It makes no distinction between marital descendants who were born legitimate and those who were legitimated.

However, § 4b does make a distinction between descendants of marriages conducted with and without the consent of the grand duke. The rule was also applied in earlier decrees, and for that reason the children of Prince Louis did not immediately become Princes of Nassau upon their parents' marriage, which was legally unapproved.

 

[Somebody]

So, is the argument that children of parents who need approval (as they are in line to the throne) do not get their father's titles and those who don't (for example marriages of those not in line because their parents' marriage wasn't approved) do get the title?! Or did Jean's children (son) ask their uncle permission to marry while there doesn't seem to be any reason to ask for it... other than possibly passing on a title... so ensuring the style of royal highness and title of prince instead of making them count(ess) of Nassau.

In the latter case it makes you wonder whether it is easier to get permission once you are not/no longer in line to the throne...

Are there any other European reigning monarchies left that require those that are not/no longer in line to the throne to ask permission to marry?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

According to § 4b, all male-line marital descendants of Prince Jean from his marriage to Hélène Vestur are only entitled to be Countesses and Counts of Nassau, since the marriage of Jean and Hélène was not approved. My reading is that their princely titles are consequences of "the conferral of a style or title in the individual case", as subsequently mentioned in § 4b, fifth paragraph.

Unfortunately, there are no publicly available decrees for Tessy, Gabriel and Noah but only a press release(!) - there seem to be decrees for Jean's children, so if anyone has a link, please share.

I've posted below the publicly available decrees relating to the surnames and titles of the grand-ducal family from 1986 onwards. I hope they are helpful.

Are there any other European reigning monarchies left that require those that are not/no longer in line to the throne to ask permission to marry?

See here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f235/opposition-to-royal-marriages-45477-8.html#post2481569

 

[Tatiana Maria]

1986: The Grand-Ducal Decree of July 28, 1986 concerning the family name of the Princes and Princesses of Luxembourg

Dans les actes publics et privés qui les concernent, les princes et princesses, issus de la descendance masculine et directe du Souverain et nés d'un mariage conclu avec Son consentement, portent le titre de princes et princesses de Luxembourg, à la suite de leurs prénoms et avant la mention de leur nom de famille «Nassau».

Les princesses unies aux princes de Notre Maison grand-ducale par un mariage conclu avec le consentement du Souverain, seront qualifiées de la même manière, à la suite des prénoms, titres et noms de famille qui leur sont propres.
​

Translation

In the public and private acts which concern them, the princes and princesses, issuing in direct male line from the Sovereign and born from a marriage with His consent, bear the title of princes and princesses of Luxembourg, following their forenames and preceding the mention of their family name "Nassau".

The princesses united with the princes of Our Grand-Ducal House by a marriage with the consent of the Sovereign will be qualified in the same manner, following their own forenames, titles and family names.
​

This decree was presumably passed because of the impending birth of the first child of Prince Jean and his then girlfriend (not yet wife) Hélène Vestur. Because the child born out of wedlock would receive her father's family name but not his titles, it was necessary to settle the question of Jean's family name.

1995: Articles 1 through 5 of the Grand-Ducal Decree of September 21, 1995 concerning the family name and title of Members of the Grand-Ducal Family

Article 1er. Dans les actes publics et privés qui les concernent, les Princes et Princesses issus de la descendance au premier degré du Souverain portent le titre d'Altesse Royale avant leurs prénoms et nom de famille "Nassau" et le titre de Prince ou Princesse de Luxembourg à la suite de leurs prénoms et du nom de famille. Les descendants de l'héritier présomptif de la Couronne sont qualifiés de la même manière.

Article 2. Les Princes de Notre Maison ayant conclu un marriage avec le consentement du Chef de Famille, de même que leurs conjoints, sont qualifiés de la manière prévue à l'article 1er. Les descendants issus de ces unions portent le titre d'Altesse Royale et de Prince ou Princesse de Nassau.

Article 3. Les Princes de Notre Maison ayant conclu un marriage sans le consentement du Chef de Famille portent, de même que leurs conjoints, le seul titre respectivement de Comte ou Comtesse de Nassau à la suite de leurs prénoms et du nom de famille "Nassau". Les descendants issus de ces unions sont qualifiés de la même manière. Les Princesses de Notre Maison ayant conclu un marriage sans le consentement du Chef de Famille, portent le seul titre de Comtesse de Nassau.

Article 4. En cas de séparation de corps des époux, en cas de divorce, en cas de remariage après décès, les titres conférés aux conjoints des Princes de Notre Maison en vertu du présent arrêté se perdent de plein droit.

Article 5. L'arrêté grand-ducal du 28 juillet 1986 concernant le nom de famille des Membres de la Famille grand-ducale est abrogé.
​

Translation

This is principally TRF member suturegeisha's translation, but I have edited it for clarity and completed the unfinished sections.

Article 1: In the private and public acts which concern them, the Princes and Princesses issuing in the first degree of descent from the Sovereign bear the title of Royal Highness before their first names and family name "Nassau" and the title Prince or Princess of Luxembourg following their first names and the family name. The descendants of the heir presumptive to the Crown are qualified in the same manner.

Article 2: The Princes of Our House, having married with the consent of the Head of the Family, as well as their spouses, are qualified as in article 1. The descendants issuing from these unions carry the title Royal Highness and Prince or Princess of Nassau.

Article 3: The Princes of Our House, having married without the consent of the Head of the Family, as well as their spouses, carry only the title Count or Countess of Nassau following their first names and the family name "Nassau". The descendants issuing from these unions are qualified in the same manner. The Princesses of Our House who have married without the consent of the Head of the Family carry only the title Countess of Nassau.

Article 4: In case of judicial separation [séparation de corps], divorce, or remarriage after death [of the spouse], the titles conferred on the spouses of the Princes of Our House by virtue of this decree are automatically lost.

Article 5. The Grand-Ducal decree of 28 July 1986 concerning the family name of the Members of the Grand-Ducal Family is repealed.
​

2004: Article 1 of the grand-ducal decree of November 27, 2004 in relation to the titles to be borne by Mrs. Julie ONGARO and the descendants of her union with His Royal Highness Prince Robert as well as by the descendants of the union of His Royal Highness Prince Jean with Mrs. Helene VESTUR

Dans les actes publics et privés qui les concernent:

L'épouse de Son Altesse Royale le Prince Robert, née Julie ONGARO est autorisée à porter le titre d'Altesse Royale, Princesse de Nassau.

Les descendants issus de cette union de même que les descendants issus de l'union de Son Altesse Royale le Prince Jean avec Madame Hélène VESTUR sont qualifiés de la même manière.

Les dispositions de l'article 4 de l'arrêté grand-ducal du 21 septembre 1995 concernant le nom de famille et les titres des Membres de la Famille grand-ducale sont applicables.
​

Translation

In the public and private acts which concern them:

The wife of His Royal Highness Prince Robert, born Julie ONGARO, is authorized to bear the title Royal Highness, Princess of Nassau.

The descendants issuing from this union as well as the descendants issuing from the union of His Royal Highness Prince Jean with Mrs. Hélène VESTUR are qualified in the same manner.

The dispositions of Article 4 of the Grand-Ducal Decree of 21 September 1995 concerning the family name and titles of Members of the Grand-Ducal Family are applicable.
​

2006: Article 1 of the Grand-Ducal Decree of February 3, 2006 modifying the Grand-Ducal Decree of September 21, 1995 concerning the family name and titles of Members of the Grand-Ducal Family

Dans Notre arrêté du 21 septembre 1995 concernant le nom de famille et les titres des Membres de la Famille grand-ducale la référence au nom de famille «Nassau» est remplacée par «de Nassau».
​

Translation

In Our decree of 21 September 1995 concerning the family name and titles of the Members of the Grand-Ducal Family, the reference to the family name "Nassau" is replaced with "of Nassau".
​

This decree was apparently passed because of the impending birth of the first child of Prince Louis and his then girlfriend (not yet wife) Tessy Antony. As with Prince Jean's child in 1986, Prince Louis' child born out of wedlock would receive his father's family name but not his titles, and it seems the Grand Duke wanted the child to use "de Nassau" instead of "Nassau".

 

[Tatiana Maria]

2012: § 4a and § 4b of the Family Bylaw of the House of Nassau of May 5, 1907, as amended by a Grand-Ducal Decree of June 18, 2012 (page 833)

§ 4a. Titel des Staatschefs und des Thronfolgers.

Der Staatschef trägt das Prädikat Königliche Hoheit (Altesse Royale) und die Titel Großherzog oder Großherzogin von Luxemburg, Herzog oder Herzogin zu Nassau (Grand-Duc ou Grande-Duchesse de Luxembourg, Duc ou Duchesse de Nassau), etc., etc.

Die hausrechtsgemäß angeheiratete Gemahlin des Staatschefs trägt das Prädikat Königliche Hoheit (Altesse Royale) und die Titel Großherzogin von Luxemburg, Herzogin zu Nassau (Grande-Duchesse de Luxembourg, Duchesse de Nassau), etc., etc. Der hausrechtsgemäß angeheiratete Gemahl der amtierenden Großherzogin trägt das Prädikat Königliche Hoheit (Altesse Royale) und die Titel Prinz von Luxemburg, Prinzgemahl (Prince de Luxembourg, Prince Consort).

Das nach Primogeniturrecht zur Thronfolge berufene Hausmitglied (Thronfolger oder Thronfolgerin) trägt das Prädikat Königliche Hoheit (Altesse Royale) und die Titel Erbgroßherzog oder Erbgroßherzogin von Luxemburg, Erbprinz oder Erbprinzessin zu Nassau (Grand-Duc Héritier ou Grande-Duchesse Héritière de Luxembourg, Prince Héritier ou Princesse Héritière de Nassau), etc., etc.

Die hausrechtsgemäß angeheiratete Gemahlin des Thronfolgers trägt das Prädikat Königliche Hoheit (Altesse Royale) und die Titel Erbgroßherzogin von Luxemburg (Grande-Duchesse Héritière de Luxembourg), Erbprinzessin zu Nassau (Princesse Héritière de Nassau), etc., etc. Im Falle einer Witwenschaft findet § 4b, Abs. 1, Ziff. 1 entsprechende Anwendung. Der hausrechtsgemäß angeheiratete Gemahl der Thronfolgerin trägt das Prädikat Königliche Hoheit (Altesse Royale) und den Titel Prinz von Luxemburg (Prince de Luxembourg).


§ 4b. Namen und Titel der Mitglieder des Großherzoglichen Hauses und der Großherzoglichen Familie.

Vorbehaltlich der nachstehenden, in Absatz 4 festgelegten Bestimmung, tragen, in den öffentlichen und privaten Handlungen, die sie betreffen, die Mitglieder des Großherzoglichen Hauses (§ 2 Absatz 4) und der Großherzoglichen Familie (§ 2 Absatz 3),

1) die eheliche Nachkommen ersten Grades des Hauschefs sowie des nach Primogeniturrecht zur Thronfolge berufenen Hausmitglieds sind, ferner deren hausrechtsgemäß angeheirateten Gemahlinnen, das Prädikat Königliche Hoheit (Altesse Royale), ihren Vornamen und den Familiennamen "zu Nassau" ("de Nassau") sowie die Titel Prinz oder Prinzessin von Luxemburg (Prince ou Princesse de Luxembourg), etc., etc.

2) die eheliche männliche Nachkommen zweiten und weiteren Grades des Hauschefs sind, mit Ausnahme der Nachkommen ersten Grades des nach Primogeniturrecht zur Thronfolge berufenen Hausmitglieds (Ziffer 1), ferner deren hausrechtsgemäß angeheirateten Gemahlinnen, das Prädikat Königliche Hoheit (Altesse Royale), ihren Vornamen und den Familiennamen "zu Nassau" ("de Nassau") und die Titel Prinz oder Prinzessin zu Nassau (Prince ou Princesse de Nassau), etc., etc.

3) die eine Ehe geschlossen haben, zu deren Abschluss der Hauschef nicht zugestimmt hat, weiterhin den Familiennamen "zu Nassau" ("de Nassau") sowie ihren angestammten Titel. Die Gemahlinnen und legitimen Nachkommen einer solchen Ehe, tragen ihren Vornamen und den Familiennamen "zu Nassau" ("de Nassau") sowie den Titel Graf oder Gräfin zu Nassau (Comte ou Comtesse de Nassau).

Aus der Führung oder Verleihung eines Prädikats oder eines Titels im Einzelfall können weder Rechte aus der Haus- oder Familienmitgliedschaft noch auf den Konsens zur Ehe hergeleitet werden.

Im Falle einer Ehetrennung (séparation de corps), einer Ehescheidung oder einer Wiederverheiratung nach dem Tod verlieren die Gemahlinnen die ihnen verliehenen Prädikate und Titel.

Im Übrigen tragen die ehelichen Nachkommen der Mitglieder des Großherzoglichen Hauses und der Großherzoglichen Familie den Familiennamen ihres Vaters.
​

Translation

This is principally Luxarazzi's translation, but I have made minor edits for clarity and precision.

§ 4a. Title of the head of state and of the heir to the throne.

The head of state bears the predicate Royal Highness and the title Grand Duke or Grand Duchess of Luxembourg, Duke or Duchess of Nassau, etc. etc.

The wife, by marriage according to the house laws, of the head of state bears the predicate Royal Highness and the title Grand Duchess of Luxembourg, Duchess of Nassau, etc. etc. The husband, by marriage according to the house laws, of the ruling Grand Duchess bears the predicate of Royal Highness and the title Prince of Luxembourg, Prince Consort.

The member of the house called upon to succeed to the throne according to the law of primogeniture (heir to the throne or heiress to the throne) bears the predicate Royal Highness and the title Hereditary Grand Duke or Hereditary Grand Duchess of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince or Hereditary Princess of Nassau, etc. etc.

The wife, by marriage according to the house laws, of the heir to the throne bears the predicate Royal Highness and the title Hereditary Grand Duchess of Luxembourg, Hereditary Princess of Nassau, etc. etc. In case of widowhood §4b (1) 1 is applied. The husband, by marriage according to the house laws, of the heiress to the throne bears the predicate Royal Highness and the title Prince of Luxembourg.


§ 4b. Surname and title of the members of the Grand Ducal House and the Grand Ducal Family.

Subject to the provisions defined in the following paragraph 4, in the public and private acts which concern them, the members of the Grand Ducal House (§ 2 paragraph 4) and the Grand Ducal Family (§ 2 paragraph 3),

1) the first-degree marital descendants of the Head of the House as well as those of the member of the House called upon to succeed to the throne according to the law of primogeniture, and their wives by marriage according to the house laws, bear the predicate Royal Highness, their first name and the family name "of Nassau" and the title Prince or Princess of Luxembourg, etc. etc.

2) the second- and further degree male-line marital descendants of the Head of the House, with the exception of the first-degree descendants of the member of the House called upon to succeed to the throne according to the law of primogeniture (item 1), and their wives by marriage according to the house laws, bear the predicate Royal Highness, their first name and the family name "of Nassau" and the title Prince or Princess of Nassau, etc. etc.

3) those who married without the consent of the Head of the House, continue to bear the family name "of Nassau" as well as their inherited title. The wives and legitimate descendants of this marriage bear their first name and the family name "of Nassau" and the title Count or Countess of Nassau.

Neither rights from membership of the House or Family nor consent to the marriage can be deduced from the use or the conferral of a predicate or title in the individual case.

In case of a [judicial] separation (séparation de corps), a divorce or a remarriage after death [of the spouse], the wives lose the predicate and title conferred upon them.

In all other circumstances, the marital descendants of members of the Grand Ducal House and the Grand Ducal Family bear the family name of their father.
​

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Membership of the Grand Ducal House, Grand Ducal Family and Grand Ducal line are regulated in § 2 of the family bylaws of May 5, 1907, as modified by the grand-ducal decree of June 18, 2012.

https://legilux.public.lu/eli/etat/adm/dec/2012/06/18/n1/jo

Die Großherzogliche Linie (la Lignée Grand-Ducale) besteht aus allen direkten ehelichen Nachkommen des Großherzogs Adolphe (Agnaten und Cognaten).

Die Großherzogliche Familie (la Famille Grand-Ducale) besteht aus allen direkten ehelichen Nachkommen der Großherzogin Charlotte. Die Ehepartner und Verwitweten der Mitglieder der Großherzoglichen Familie gehören dieser ebenfalls an.

Das Großherzogliche Haus (la Maison Grand-Ducale) besteht aus dem Staatsoberhaupt als Hauschef, den ehemaligen Staatsoberhäuptern und den aus einer hausrechtsmäßig gültigen Ehe geborenen Nachkommen ersten Grades eines Hauschefs sowie diejenigen des nach Primogeniturrecht zur Thronfolge berufenen Hausmitglieds.

Die hausrechtsgemäß angeheirateten Ehepartner und Verwitweten der Mitglieder, auch der verstorbenen Staatsoberhäupter, des Großherzoglichen Hauses gehören diesem ebenfalls an. Im Falle einer Wiederverheiratung verlieren die vorgenannten Verwitweten die Mitgliedschaft des Großherzoglichen Hauses.​

Translation: This once again principally Luxarazzi's translation, but with some corrections made.

The Grand Ducal Line consists of all direct marital descendants of Grand Duke Adolph (agnates and cognates).

The Grand Ducal Family consists of all direct marital descendants of Grand Duchess Charlotte. The spouses, widows and widowers of members of the Grand Ducal Family are included in it as well.

The Grand Ducal House consists of the head of state as head of the house, the former heads of state, and the first-degree descendants, born from a marriage according to the house laws, of a head of the house and of the member of the house called upon to succeed to the throne according to the law of primogeniture.

The spouses and widows/widowers, by marriage according to the house laws, of members and of deceased heads of state of the Grand Ducal House are also included in it. The aforementioned widows and widowers will lose their membership of the Grand Ducal House in case of remarriage.

The head of the house is authorised, after consultation with the members of the advisory council (§ 10 (1) 4), to confer born members of the Grand Ducal Family with membership of the Grand Ducal House.
​

It does say "Son Altesse Royale"
"C’est avec une grande tristesse que Leurs Altesses Royales le Grand-Duc et la Grande-Duchesse ont appris la disparition de Son Altesse Royale le Prince Wauthier de Ligne, survenue lundi, à l’âge de 70 ans."

https://monarchie.lu/en/node/2682

It is a mistake !

In theory the Grand Duke could have elevated his cousin to HRH, but I do not see a reason why he would.

But how can Grand Duke Henri elevate him? He belongs to the Belgian nobility and received his titles from the Belgian monarchy not the Luxembourgish.

Legally, there is nothing to prevent it. Other foreigners, such as the Bernadotte former princes or more recently Claire Lademacher, have been elevated by Luxembourg monarchs.

The Bernadotte Prince was given a title because he lost rights to the title and style of HRH and prince because of a morganatic marriage. Claire Lademarcher can be given the style of HRH (slightly different) because she’s married to a son of the Luxembourgish head of state.

Article 40 of the Luxembourg constitution reads: "Le Grand-Duc a le droit de conférer des titres de noblesse, sans pouvoir jamais y attacher aucun privilège." ("The Grand Duke may confer titles of nobility, without ever having the power to attach privileges to them.")

Nothing in the constitution, or in the house laws, stipulates that the Grand Duke may only confer HRHs on foreigners when they have married unequally or are married to the son of the head of the state.

 

[Toledo]

Question on titles on non King/Queen European monarchies:

Can the Grand Duke grant nobility titles, either lifetime or hereditary?

And even if we are here in the Grand Ducal thread, can I ask the same question about the Princes of Monaco and Lichtenstein?

 

[Somebody]

Question on titles on non King/Queen European monarchies:

Can the Grand Duke grant nobility titles, either lifetime or hereditary?

And even if we are here in the Grand Ducal thread, can I ask the same question about the Princes of Monaco and Lichtenstein?

In the past both the titles count of Nassau and prince of Nassau and prince of Luxembourg have been granted to various members of the grand ducal family.

 

[Toledo]

In the past both the titles count of Nassau and prince of Nassau and prince of Luxembourg have been granted to various members of the grand ducal family.

Thanks for the reply! I can log off now since its 10:50 PM on my side of the Royal Forums world here in New York.

 

[Countessmeout]

Question on titles on non King/Queen European monarchies:

Can the Grand Duke grant nobility titles, either lifetime or hereditary?

And even if we are here in the Grand Ducal thread, can I ask the same question about the Princes of Monaco and Lichtenstein?

Yes. Two prime examples are Prince/ss Bernadotte and Count/ess of Wisborg for Swedish royals.

Oscar II's son Oscar renounced his titles and position when he married a former lady in waiting of Victoria of Baden. The couple were allowed the honorary non-hereditary title prince/ss Bernadotte in 1888.

This changed in 1892 thanks to his uncle. Oscar's mother Sophia was a daughter of Wilhelm of Nassau, and sister of Adolph, Grand Duke of Luxembourg.Adolphe exercised his right to create hereditary peers and granted Prince Bernadotte as a hereditay peerage in Luxembourg. He was also given the title of Count of Wisborg.

The Count of Wisborg title was granted to three of his great nephews when they married morgantically. Lennart, Sigvard and Carl Johan. By then it was Grand Duchess Charlotte and they only received Wisborg.


The only other Prince Bernadotte was Prince Carl,Duke of Ostergotland. But his peerage was in Belgium not Luxembourg. His sister Astrid's husand Leopold III created it for him.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Luxembourg system is similar to the Netherlands (which is logical, since the union between the two Houses): nobility can be given by elevation, by acknowledgement and by incorporation.

Elevation = an entirely new title is created

Acknowledgement = recognition of an indigenous title of nobility

Incorporation = incorporation of an originally foreign title of nobility

In 1919 Grand-Duchess Charlotte incorporated Félix de Bourbon-Parma into the Nobility of the Grand-Duchy with the hereditary title prince (princesse) de Bourbon de Parme and the prefix Altesse Royale (HRH).

When the children of Princess Irene of the Netherlands by her husband Carlos Hugo de Bourbon-Parma, Duke of Parma and Piacenza, requested incorporation of their foreign title into the Nobility of the Netherlands, the requirement was: a recognized title in a comparable system of Nobility. They could (succesfully) refer to this incorporation in Luxembourg.

 

[Toledo]

Thanks @Duc et Pair and @Countessmeout for the replies that help me understand the system in non King/Queen monarchies.
I have lots of books and reference links about royalty and nobility and none seem to mention the specifics on Monaco, Lichtenstein or Luxembourg in terms of if and how peer titles are granted.