King Willem-Alexander and the British Throne


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Empress said:
Does anyone know why Willem Alexander has been skipped in the order of succesion to the British Throne?

It can not be because he married a Catholic, as that would also make =his children ineligible and they are in line.

More information : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_British_throne
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It is because he married a Catholic. Perhaps the children are still in line to the throne, because they are Protestants :unsure:
 
Hmm, how very odd. I thought that I remembered that in the British RF if you married a catholic, your children were also out of the line of succesion.

Very odd indeed.
 
I thought so too. It seems like all the royal families of the world have a claim to the throne. Are all the lines of succession this long? Anyhow it is very unlikely that the Dutch will succeed the throne.
 
Isn't it the same with prince Michael of Kent? His children are in the line of succession too, but he's not because of marrying princess Michael of Kent (who is a catholic too, I thought).:huh: I think that as long as your children stay protestant/anglican etc. they can stay in the line of succession...
 
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Maxie said:
Isn't it the same with prince Michael of Kent? His children are in the line of succession too, but he's not because of marrying princess Michael of Kent (who is a catholic too, I thought).:huh: I think that as long as your children stay protestant/anglican etc. they can stay in the line of succession...
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It is like that. The children of Princess Ragnhild of Norway all married catholics, and are therefore not in line - but their children are, as long as they don't convert.
 
yeah if u are going to inherit the throne u have to be anglican or protestant because the head of the british monarchy has to be the head of the anglican church, it wouldn't make sense if someone catholic had that job.
 
Well, Willem-Alexander never ceased to be a protestant :)
 
Also, in most religions, the mothers religion is the one that "officially" determines the religion of the child. I know that this is true for most christian religions as well as the Jewish faith. That is why in orthodox Jewish families, if a man want to marry outside of the faith the woman must convert.

As far as I know, Maxima did not convert, so that would in effect make Amalia and Alexia Catholic, despite the fact that they will be raised protestant.
 
I know that Judaism and Christianity view inheritence of religion differently. You are correct that for Orthodox Jews, the mother is the one who determines religion. But since Christianity is more of a choice, I think the childrens religion is determined by the parent who cares the most :) In this case I'm guessing that the girls are being raised as protestants given their position in Holland. I doubt Maxima is willing to risk a constitutional crisis over the Dutch throne to raise her daughters Catholic.



Just my .02

Debby
 
Empress said:
Also, in most religions, the mothers religion is the one that "officially" determines the religion of the child. I know that this is true for most christian religions as well as the Jewish faith. That is why in orthodox Jewish families, if a man want to marry outside of the faith the woman must convert.

As far as I know, Maxima did not convert, so that would in effect make Amalia and Alexia Catholic, despite the fact that they will be raised protestant.
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They were baptised in a protestant church, by a protestant minister, according to the traditions of the dutch reformed church. They are probably registered at the protestant reformed community of Wassenaar as well, ...so I doubt if anyone can consider them catholics.

Maxima and the Prince of Orange explicitely told the press that their children will be protestants, during the press conference that was given upon their engagement. According to the princes own words ´The House of Orange will remain protestant´. Maxima said that she would study the dutch reformed church, but left in the middle if she was open to a conversion.
 
From Wikipedia:

849. HM Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands (b. 1938), greatX6-granddaughter of Princess Augusta Charlotte, Duchess of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttell
850. HRH Princess Catharina-Amalia of the Netherlands (b. 2003), granddaughter of Queen Beatrix (skipped her father Willem-Alexander, Prince of Orange)
851. HRH Princess Alexia of the Netherlands (b. 2005), daughter of Willem-Alexander, Prince of Orange
852. Countess Luana of Orange-Nassau (b. 2005), granddaughter of Queen Beatrix (skipped her father Prince Johan-Friso of the Netherlands)
853. Countess Zaria of Orange-Nassau (b. 2006), daughter of Prince Johan-Friso of the Netherlands
854. HRH Prince Constantijn of the Netherlands (b. 1969), son of Queen Beatrix
855. Count Claus-Casimir of Orange-Nassau (b. 2004), son of Prince Constantijn of the Netherlands
856. Countess Eloise of Orange-Nassau (b. 2002), daughter of Prince Constantijn of the Netherlands
857. Countess Leonore of Orange-Nassau (b. 2006), daughter of Prince Constantijn of the Netherlands
858. HRH Princess Margriet of the Netherlands (b. 1943), sister of Queen Beatrix (skipped her sister Princess Irene of the Netherlands and her children)
859. HH Prince Bernhard of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven (b. 1972), son of Princess Margriet (skipped his elder brother Prince Maurits of Orange-Nassau and his children)
860. Samuel van Vollenhoven (b. 2004), son of Prince Bernhard of Orange-Nassau
861. Isabella van Vollenhoven (b. 2002), daughter of Prince Bernhard of Orange-Nassau
862. HH Prince Pieter Christiaan of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven (b. 1972), son of Princess Margriet of the Netherlands
863. HH Prince Floris of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven (b. 1975), son of Princess Margriet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_Succession_to_the_British_Throne

And:
Were he not a Catholic, HM King Juan Carlos of Spain, as the great-grandson of Princess Beatrice, who in turn was the youngest daughter of Queen Victoria, would be in the Line of Succession somewhere around the 500 mark. Other Catholic monarchs include HM King Albert of Belgium (about 1100th) and Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg (about 1120th).
 
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No Mabel is a protestant too. Maybe because of the given fact that Friso isn't in line for the Dutch throne anymore? Don't understand why his daughters are on this list though. They're not on the list for the Dutch throne anymore (as far as I know)...
I don't get it. I think this is more interesting than the the fact that W-A is not on the list and his daughters are...
 
I just can't seem to find a reason why he would not be included. There is nothing on Wikipedia. Very strange. It can not be because he did not seek permission to marry, as neither did Pieter Christian or his brother.
 
If a country claims to allow freedom of worship then that freedom should also extend to the monarch who should be able to be whatever religion he or she chooses. In Britain we have the ridiculous concept of the queen being Anglican when she’s in England and Presbyterian when she’s in Scotland. Also, the monarch can marry a Hindu, Muslim, Seventh day Adventist or even a Devil worshipper but under no circumstances a Catholic. This is a great insult to all Catholics who make up what is the second largest Church in England and the largest in Scotland.

The Dutch situation is different. I have been told that nowhere in the constitution is the monarch obliged to be a member of the Dutch reformed Church. When Queen Wilhelmina returned to the Netherlands after the war she attended a High Mass of thanksgiving in the Catholic cathedral in Breda. Nobody even batted an eyelid, but in Britain the monarch is forbidden by law to attend Mass. Almost half the House of Orange is Catholic and Willem Alexander and Maximina’s wedding was celebrated by a Catholic priest and Protestant minister. When the children where baptised, although it took place in a Protestant church, Maximina insisted that the Catholic practice of pouring the water should be followed. I doubt if anyone in the Netherlands would be the least bit bothered if the monarch was a Catholic especially as the Catholic Church is the largest in the country.
 
I really doubt if nobody would care if the monarch would become a catholic. I think a vaste majority of Orange-fans are protestants, so they wouldn't be too pleased if the monarch would be a catholic. The largest part of the Dutch people may be catholic, but only in name, I (a catholic myself) hardly know any practicising catholics. Most catholics live in the south and most of them are not that interested in the dutch royal family. I'm looked upon as some kind of rarity among my southern friends, to be honest.

The list magnik posted above isn't up-to-date, btw. Floris is in it too and he shouldn't be, because he married Aimee who's a catholic too.
 
And what about little Anna, Lucas and Felicia? Were they baptised as catholics?
 
I was wondering just the same. This whole list makes me wonder, to be honest. Very interesting all this. :rolleyes:
 
Maxie said:
Most catholics live in the south and most of them are not that interested in the dutch royal family. I'm looked upon as some kind of rarity among my southern friends, to be honest.
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All the Dutch Catholics I know are all ardent royalists and claim that Catholics were always more loyal to House of Orange than protestants.

I don't think Willem Alexander will lose much sleep over not being in line to the British throne. He will sit on a much better throne one day, God willing.
 
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Marengo said:
And what about little Anna, Lucas and Felicia? Were they baptised as catholics?
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I believe that they were all baptised in a non-denominational ceremony.

Maurits and Marilene were also married by a non-demoninational minister.
 
I suppose a Crown Prince has to be skipped for succession to the British throne. He can´t be king of Netherlands and England at the same time.
 
There is precedent in history for a person to hold both thrones. See William and Mary. So he could certainly be both.

And besides, there are current kings and queens on the list that already hold their own throne, so that would not make any sense.

Crown Prince Haakon, and Crown Princess Victoria are all on the list as well.
 
Although for Willem to get the throne if he were on the list, it would take many years and many people would have to have died! I am sure that he would be happy just to see his darling Amalia on the list.
 
I certainly disagree with Iain that no-one would mind in the UK if the monarch became Catholic. The Monarch represents and reflects the people of a country. England is about 80% Protestant. And in Scotland it depends on how you work things out. More Catholics attend church, but more people are nominally Protestant.

My view is that if its not broke - don't fix it! There are a lot of privileges with being Monarch - but there are also a lot of duties. And one of the duties is to maintain the country's traditions and keep within the law. In Britain that would include being Anglican, and marrying someone that was suitable and acceptable.

Interestingly, I believe that the reason for including marrying a Catholic as being a barrier to being King, rather than just the King being Catholic, was that Charles I was thought to be over influenced by his wife, a French Catholic Princess. She was also probably the influence behind her younger son, James VI and II, becoming a Catholic later in life. He started giving preference to Catholic friends and increased the influence of the Church in the country. People were prepared to settle for this for the time being because his two daughters from his first marriage were both Protestants and were the heirs to the throne. However, when his first wife died he married a Catholic Princess and they had a son (James, The Old Pretender, father of 'Bonnie Prince Charlie). A son would have preference over the 2 daughters to succeed to the throne.

Now seeing no end to the rule of Catholics and the changes this would produce across the country, James was removed from the throne. His elder daughter, Mary, was married to William of Orange (her cousin and next in line to the British throne through his mother), and the throne was offered to them jointly. This set off mini civil wars for over 55 years, and was also the reason that the Act of Settlement was brought in in 1701.

I think most people here are generally happy to leave things as they are, with that history to look back on!
 
Alison20 said:
I certainly disagree with Iain that no-one would mind in the UK if the monarch became Catholic. The Monarch represents and reflects the people of a country. England is about 80% Protestant. And in Scotland it depends on how you work things out. More Catholics attend church, but more people are nominally Protestant!
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Alison, I wasn't talking about the U.K. What I said was that no-one in The Netherlands would mind if the monarch was Catholic. That would most certainly not be the case in the U.K.
Also, in Scotland the adult membership of the "big two" is, Church of Scotland: 607,000 and the Catholic Church: 814,000
 
Marengo said:
They were baptised in a protestant church, by a protestant minister, according to the traditions of the dutch reformed church. They are probably registered at the protestant reformed community of Wassenaar as well, ...so I doubt if anyone can consider them catholics.

Maxima and the Prince of Orange explicitely told the press that their children will be protestants, during the press conference that was given upon their engagement. According to the princes own words ´The House of Orange will remain protestant´. Maxima said that she would study the dutch reformed church, but left in the middle if she was open to a conversion.
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Good points. I'd bet anyone thinking catholicism would by default be the dominant religion of Willem Alexander's girls, that them growing up as protestants would even be in the prenuptial agreement between WA and his spouse
 
Second non-protestant Queen

It is possible that Princess Máxima of the Netherlands will become the second protestant Queen of the Netherlands. Her far predecessor Queen Anna Paulovna Romanovna of the Netherlands born Grand Duchess of Russia belonged to the Russian Orthodox Church.

During the pressconference after the announcement of their engagement, miss Zorreguieta anserwed: "I'm orientating myself on the protestantism". In an interview, broadcasted on January 18th 2002, miss Zorreguieta stated: "Becoming a protestant is no decision that you take from the one day to the other." She made clear that the most important part is she and the Prince do share the same standards and values, that they share the same christian feelings.

The Prince of Orange said: "The forms are different. The feeling is the same."

The fact that miss Zorreguieta was not willing to convert to protestantism, had a few consequences. The Bishop of Rotterdam (the diocese in which her residence, The Hague, is situated), Mgr. A. van Luyn s.d.b. gave an official dispensation to miss Zorreguieta. That means that the roman-catholic church officially allowed her to engage in a marriage which will not be solemnized according to roman-catholic rites.

The church-blessing of the royal wedding indeed was a protestant affair, with Ds. N. van der Linden as the officiating reverend minister. There were roman-catholic influences anyway. Father Rafael Braun, an Argentinean priest and a family-friend of the Zorreguietas did a part of the readings in the Holy Scripture and did a prayer (both in Spanish). The Kyrie from the Missa Solemnis (Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart) and the Ave Maria (Franz Schubert) were performed on the bride's request.

The Princess remained a faithful daughter to the Church of Rome.

Picture: Their Royal Highnesses The Prince of Orange and Princess Máxima of the Netherlands attend the Holy Mass at the Cathedral of the Saints Laurentius and Elizabeth in Rotterdam, February 2006.

Source picture: the Diocese of Rotterdam / uploaded via my own webspace

s17.jpg
 
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