Diana's Friends, Lovers and Bodyguards

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

But people, it never come to your mind that being so famous and trying to lead a life with the medias around is not that easy ?

Unfortunately, as has been confirmed many times, Diana would phone them and let them know where she was going to be and what she was going to be doing.

[TheTruth]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

I don't remember Diana having that many solo engagements when they first married and of course once she was pregnant, the problem got worse. Many women feel 'less than attractive' at that time and while she was stuck at home 'suffering', Charles was getting out and meeting people. Some women do treat pregnancy as an illness, others just get on with living.

Very true Skydragon. A friend of my mother's was most of the time missing at work because she got so sick, she couldn't leave bed. But her case was special since she had already lost two unborn babies. I understand that pregnancy can be disturbing for some women : your body changes, you can't no longer do what you could, ... I've never discussed about Diana's quick pregnancy but it might have been an "accelerator" to their marital problems IMO.

[TheTruth]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Unfortunately, as has been confirmed many times, Diana would phone them and let them know where she was going to be and what she was going to be doing.

Yes, okay, but what I meant is that she didn't do it in her early life. First of all she didn't know what the hell she was going to do in the RF and secondly, she had not one second to breath without being taken in photo. The 1982 Carribean trip pictures was the worst thing you could do to her and she didn't forget that. The pictures with Dodi on the beach was highly inspired by that. You know what we say : Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. She didn't want to get caught a second time so she controlled the situation and made it happen under her orders this time.

[COUNTESS]

Frankly, this is all nonsense. One poster has a definite prejudice against Diana and always lauds Camilla as "sooo wonderful". Well, the truth lie in between. Diana did a great deal. The press didn't need to be called, they came like geese. I am sure they were called at time. When they had walkabouts, Diana was inudated, leaving "poor Charles" seething. Diana did a great deal for charities. Many credit her for her help. She gave a great deal of herself. Now, did she have faults, of course. Yes, Charles has given time and money. More money than time. He has plenty of money to give. Camilla, up until recently did nothing for anyone, but herself. She is now been pushed into the limelight. She has no record or any real "work", I don't mean for pay, in her past. It is silly to compare the two woman and worse to excoriate one who is dead. Camilla is here an now. She is doing her job. I doubt that if she called the press before an engagement they would all drop what they are doing to photograph her.

[ysbel]

TheTruth,

I don't think fame caused Diana's problems but I think the public's adoration made her problems more difficult to face. She married into a family that had up to then received unbated deference and respect from the masses and to balance it out, the Royal Family had always been super-critical of themselves and each other. Diana on the other hand received a frenetic adoration from the masses where everyone was saying she was right, she was beautiful, she was wronged by the Royal Family. She heard that she was the only good thing that ever came from that family and the rest of the Royal Family were mad as hatters.

Since she felt the Royal Family didn't appreciate her and did her wrong, this public affirmation convinced her that they were the crazy ones and that she was fine just the way she was and didn't need to change her behavior.

This led to two fatal mistakes that cost her life. Number one, she refused to hire security because she felt the Royal security would be spying on her for the Queen (and she thought the Queen was the enemy-meanwhile she didn't bother to hire security on her own after several run-ins with the press)
The second deadly mistake she made was telling the press that they were going to be surprised by the next thing she did. If she wanted to get the press off her back (and with no security, that would have been wise to get them off her back) the worst thing she could have said was that comment about the press being surprised at what she did next. She literally guaranteed that the press was going to be following her around and indeed, after that statement, Fleet Street reported some tabloids offering up to $1 million dollars for a picture of Diana and Dodi in a compromising position. The combination of no security and enticing the press led to the the frenzied scene that took her life.

Either decision by itself would have been careless but the two together were unbelievably foolhardy.

A lot of Diana's suffering came about from the choices she made.

[TheTruth]

I understand perfectly your point ysbel and I'm not putting her faults in doubt. She tried to get the grip on the press and use them like they've used her and I think she believed that from now on, she would be the one to decide what would be on the front page. Terrible mistake that she has paid with her life. That's the price of revenge I believe.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Frankly, this is all nonsense.

Frankly I beg to differ.

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

One poster has a definite prejudice against Diana and always lauds Camilla as "sooo wonderful".

The last that I read Camilla wasn't the subject of this discussion and I wasn't aware that one sole member could totally dominate a discussion. There are several members posting here.

Camilla and her fiftieth birthday partiy was mentioned as a reason Diana went with Dodi and Camilla was mentioned in reference to Diana not understanding why Charles would have chosen Camilla over her. The reasons why Charles would prefer Camilla over Diana were discussed but then that is because Charles was one of Diana's men as the thread title suggests. Other than that, Camilla hasn't been the focus of the conversation and she certainly hasn't been the focus of the conversation for the last few posts until yours came up.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

It is silly to compare the two woman and worse to excoriate one who is dead. Camilla is here an now. She is doing her job. I doubt that if she called the press before an engagement they would all drop what they are doing to photograph her.

Until you mentioned it, I wasn't aware that we were comparing Diana and Camilla but since you've so graciously reminded us, I'd like to remind everyone that this is not a Diana Camilla comparison thread.

I believe most of you know this.

ysbel
British forums moderator

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

I understand perfectly your point ysbel and I'm not putting her faults in doubt. She tried to get the grip on the press and use them like they've used her and I think she believed that from now on, she would be the one to decide what would be on the front page. Terrible mistake that she has paid with her life. That's the price of revenge I believe.

I think that is very true TheTruth. I think Diana could have accomplished whatever she wanted when she set her mind to it; the problem she ran into was in what she wanted.

Its a question of priorities rather than abilities. For her, getting out of the grip of the Royal Family was more important than making sure she had decent security being the most famous woman in the world. And she could have gotten decent security even without the Royal Family's help. I think you're right in that she wanted to make sure she got on the front page; but a better choice would have been to make sure that when she got on the front page it was for a good cause and worthy of her.

Unfortunately a lot of Diana's suffering was caused by some of her own mistakes, as surely was true of Charles, Camilla, and the rest of the Royal Family as well as the rest of human nature.

[COUNTESS]

You are quite right. Diana was foolish and made many mistakes. The first was marrying Charles.

[Elspeth]

I agree that, with hindsight, it's pretty clear that it was a mistake for her to marry Charles. Whether it's the first mistake she made is debatable.

[Al_bina]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Frankly, this is all nonsense. One poster has a definite prejudice against Diana and always lauds Camilla as "sooo wonderful". Well, the truth lie in between. Diana did a great deal. The press didn't need to be called, they came like geese. I am sure they were called at time. When they had walkabouts, Diana was inudated, leaving "poor Charles" seething. Diana did a great deal for charities. Many credit her for her help. She gave a great deal of herself. Now, did she have faults, of course. Yes, Charles has given time and money. More money than time. He has plenty of money to give. Camilla, up until recently did nothing for anyone, but herself. She is now been pushed into the limelight. She has no record or any real "work", I don't mean for pay, in her past. It is silly to compare the two woman and worse to excoriate one who is dead. Camilla is here an now. She is doing her job. I doubt that if she called the press before an engagement they would all drop what they are doing to photograph her.

I am in full agreement with your views, even if they tend to slightly veer off the topic. At the same time, they precisely reflect the current state of affairs, when it comes to discussing late Princess Diana.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

It is silly to compare the two woman and worse to excoriate one who is dead.

Originally Posted by Al_bina

I am in full agreement with your views, even if they tend to slightly veer off the topic. At the same time, they precisely reflect the current state of affairs, when it comes to discussing late Princess Diana.

We've had discussions about the Duke of Clarence being Jack the Ripper and murdering a bunch of prostitutes, and his grandmother Queen Victoria being behind his murder, we've talked about Edward VIII, Duke of Windsor, possibly being a Nazi, and his younger brother George VI possibly being a wife beater and more recently over in the Luxembourg forum, they've talked about the recently died Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte being racist and cruel towards her daughter in law the present Grand Duchess. All of these are dead people so I think if someone is squeamish about reading or writing unsavory things towards the dead, they would have left our forums a long time ago.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by ysbel

We've had discussions about the Duke of Clarence being Jack the Ripper and murdering a bunch of prostitutes, and his grandmother Queen Victoria being behind his murder, we've talked about Edward VIII, Duke of Windsor, possibly being a Nazi, and his younger brother George VI possibly being a wife beater and more recently over in the Luxembourg forum, they've talked about the recently died Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte being racist and cruel towards her daughter in law the present Grand Duchess. All of these are dead people so I think if someone is squeamish about reading or writing unsavory things towards the dead, they would have left our forums a long time ago.

Plus I think we had all agreed that Camilla is a no-no-topic here . Safes a lot of bad blood.... Merry Christmas to you...

But of course it could be very interesting to discuss why those with a prejudice towards Diana, if there are any members with that and not solid reasons, that is, got to the point where and when they started to change their opinion about Diana. Morton-book? Charles' interview? Panorama-interview? Squidgygate? Hewitt-affair? War of the Waleses? Or simply Dodi?

[Warren]

To keep this thread on topic further discussion of Diana's charity work should be carried over to the Diana's Charity Work and Patronages thread.

thanks,
Warren

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

But of course it could be very interesting to discuss why those with a prejudice towards Diana, if there are any members with that and not solid reasons, that is, got to the point where and when they started to change their opinion about Diana. Morton-book? Charles' interview? Panorama-interview? Squidgygate? Hewitt-affair? War of the Waleses? Or simply Dodi?

Good idea, but let's hold off on this for now. Its not really appropriate for this thread and I'm looking for a current thread that your question can fit in.

Following on Warren's excellent suggestion, I've moved the posts about Diana's charities to her charities thread so we can follow that discussion better there.

ysbel
British forums moderator

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Plus I think we had all agreed that Camilla is a no-no-topic here . Safes a lot of bad blood.... Merry Christmas to you...

But of course it could be very interesting to discuss why those with a prejudice towards Diana, if there are any members with that and not solid reasons, that is, got to the point where and when they started to change their opinion about Diana. Morton-book? Charles' interview? Panorama-interview? Squidgygate? Hewitt-affair? War of the Waleses? Or simply Dodi?

Thanks for the suggestion, Jo. We started a new thread and poll on this very topic which everyone can see here:

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...why-15318.html

[TheTruth]

Here's a video on Diana's lovers but, surprise, Oliver Hoare is not even stated . This documentary was prepared for what should have been her 46th birthday and the prefered to name Ted Forstmann, much more of a rumored affair than an accurate one like Hoare's.

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by Charlotte1

When Harry came to Australia he stayed at the property in Northern NSW (?) that belonged to Diana's former flatmate Ann Hill and her husband. Ann married the son of one of Charles's friends who owns large stations ( ranches) in Australia. He's Australian, so she lives in Australia and obviously there is some contract with Diana's children but probably more due to her husband's family connections with Charles.

Isn't her name Anne, rather than Ann? I know it's a trivial difference, but I just wanted to know for sure which spelling is correct. I believe Morton referred to her always as Anne.

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

The BBC seems to have got things wrong, because Virginia Pitman is mentioned as his second wife.

BBC NEWS | UK | Profile: Camilla Parker Bowles

Wikipedia has Rosemary Pitman:

BBC NEWS | UK | Profile: Camilla Parker Bowles

Genealogy god Michael Rhodes says here that Virginia Pitman is daughter of Major Tommy Pitman (of Leyburn, Wensleydale, north Yorkshire) and she married banker Henry Clarke in 1991. It was Henry Clarke's second marriage.

I don't think there is a relationship between her and Rosemary Parker Bowles. Rosemary's maiden name was Dickinson and her first husband was a Pitman, an army guy I think.