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  #1941  
Old 08-11-2016, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
why is it hypocrisy? If Charles was having an affair, i dont see why she should not. I'd agree it was foolish of her to get involved with married men, or rather to get involved in affairs that became public knowledge..
A very simple reason why she should not have an affair. Read the Treason Act.

Unless she cried rape she was actively aiding and abetting men in committing treason. She, as the wife of the heir to the throne, agreed to a different standard to every other woman (bar the wife of the monarch who has the same standard). The Treason Act is very clear - the wife of the monarch and the wife of the heir to the throne can only sleep with their husbands. It is why Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard were executed - treason by having affairs, why the wife of George I was locked away for years and years and why George IV wanted to prove his wife was having an affair.

She committed treason - and even admitted it when she admitted having an affair.

Quite simple really.

There was even talk of taking Hewitt to trial based on her evidence but they also realised that she would have to stand trial as well so dropped that possibility.
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  #1942  
Old 08-11-2016, 05:20 PM
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I hardly think that Diana (or Hewitt for that matter) was thinking of the Treason Act, or of centuries old double standards with regard to Kings and their consorts, when they were falllng in love.

If the authorities had evoked the Treason Act with regard to Hewitt they would not only have caused Charles and the BRF to be the butt of world-wide ridicule, (Anne Boleyn, give me a break!) but may very well have exposed Charles's activities with Mrs PB and his sleeping with the wife of a fellow officer. Not the favourable outcome they would have wished for!
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  #1943  
Old 08-11-2016, 05:39 PM
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We can say that the Hypocrisy is also in the the fact that Charles and Camilla are relentlessly blamed for their affair, Charles maligned for breaking his vows BUT Diana more or less gets a free pass for breaking the same vows, because "she was in love" and "your husband is an adulterer so let's go girl".
Double standard big time folks !
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  #1944  
Old 08-11-2016, 06:25 PM
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If there is one thing that I wish that both Diana and Charles had as the marriage disintegrated, it would be that they could call it quits and end the marriage like just about everyone else in the world.

Staying together for crown and country is as bad as staying together for the sake of the children. It just makes everyone miserable. A lot of problems and affairs and agony could have been avoided if there was a Royal No-Fault Divorce package back then.
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  #1945  
Old 08-11-2016, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
We can say that the Hypocrisy is also in the the fact that Charles and Camilla are relentlessly blamed for their affair, Charles maligned for breaking his vows BUT Diana more or less gets a free pass for breaking the same vows, because "she was in love" and "your husband is an adulterer so let's go girl".
Double standard big time folks !
Agree Nico.

I also find it hypocritical for Diana to bat her lashes at the camera and complain about there being three in her marriage when she had no such qualms about being the third person in the marriages of Oliver Hoare or Will Carling (and yes, I do believe she had an affair with Carling).
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  #1946  
Old 08-11-2016, 07:09 PM
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There are three sides to every marital story ..... his, hers and the truth!

Although the presence of Camilla was very obvious from the outset .... down to attending polo matches / outdoor persuits Charles was taking part in with Diana back in 1980 .....
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  #1947  
Old 08-11-2016, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Really? It does not give a very nice portrait of Diana does it that her own father apparently said (AND to his mother in law) that if Anyone tried to stop her doing something she was impossible to live with and it seems a holy terror that they were all afraid of.
All rather sounds liek the "Diana was a loony" slant.
I certianly dont believe that the Spencers or Lady F conspired or tried to push teh marriage, becuase I think that the Spencers didn't care enough and Lady Fermoy probably was mildly in favour but hardly PUSHING for it. But I dont believe in these stories that came up years and years later that "Oh we told C that it wasn't a good idea" or "We tried to stop Di marrying him but we couldn't or felt we couldn't."
These stories have been around, that Lady Ferm thought her granddaughter was not suitaible or was a downright crazy person, and "wanted to stop it" but didn't or did try and couldn't, or wished that she had tried...
And I dont beleive that the QM did anything much, I think she hoped for Charles to get married, and probalby thought that Di was a nice girl but I dont beleive she was very active..


why is it hypocrisy? If Charles was having an affair, i dont see why she should not. I'd agree it was foolish of her to get involved with married men, or rather to get involved in affairs that became public knowledge..
I think the point Bradford was trying to make was to debunk the story put out by the media during the heady days before and long after the Wales marriage that Lady Fermoy and QEQM were behind the entire Charles and Diana matchmaking and subsequent marriage. I've never read about the true source of that story.
I tend to think that Diana could be a real bearcat if she was denied or questioned about her choices. I included Bradford because I tend to find her more credible than some of the other authors especially one I cannot mention because if she reads criticism of her works, she has her lawyer notify forum Administrators that she will sue for defamation.
As for Diana's hypocrisy, she did do herself a great deal of harm, by admitting on Panorama that she did have affairs also. Up until that time she was the beautiful young mother with two adorable sons who was betrayed by her husband with his mistress despite his wife's love and devotion. After her admission to having affair(s), it made her statement of three in their marriage to "there was 3/4 in our marriage". I remember sitting back in my chair and shaking my head. My phone rang and it was my late mother saying, "Diana just did a very stupid thing." Again, her staff told her not to do the interview on Panorama and she didn't listen and went ahead. I always view that interview as a real disaster for her.
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  #1948  
Old 08-11-2016, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
A very simple reason why she should not have an affair. Read the Treason Act.



Unless she cried rape she was actively aiding and abetting men in committing treason. She, as the wife of the heir to the throne, agreed to a different standard to every other woman (bar the wife of the monarch who has the same standard). The Treason Act is very clear - the wife of the monarch and the wife of the heir to the throne can only sleep with their husbands. It is why Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard were executed - treason by having affairs, why the wife of George I was locked away for years and years and why George IV wanted to prove his wife was having an affair.



She committed treason - and even admitted it when she admitted having an affair.



Quite simple really.



There was even talk of taking Hewitt to trial based on her evidence but they also realised that she would have to stand trial as well so dropped that possibility.

We still are seeing Hewitt as Harry's father comments 20 years later. Imagine if William was a girl and Harry is the direct heir. It was okay for the Royal men to sleep around because any illegitimate child wasn't in the line of succession but for the Royal wife it was a no no because that child would be a Royal. DNA testing is a recent thing.


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  #1949  
Old 08-11-2016, 08:03 PM
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You are right, Diana should have never done the interview. She wanted to garner sympathy, but opened the door for criticism. What everyone misses here, is Charles was in love with Camilla. He needed a wife that was acceptable to the archaic ways of the RF. He like Diana, she was young, pretty and fun. He hardly knew her. "Whatever love is". She married him expecting a husband, she got a partial one. Those who believe Camilla was out of his life then, are quite gullible. He was then, he is now in love with the woman he has married. Diana wasn't fighting against an affair, she was fighting for a husband. Her affairs were foolish and hurt her. She never used her brain when it came to these things. But, from beginning to end Charles had his way. 20 years later, when she could hardly defend herself, since she is dead, his life is just fine.
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  #1950  
Old 08-11-2016, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
We can say that the Hypocrisy is also in the the fact that Charles and Camilla are relentlessly blamed for their affair, Charles maligned for breaking his vows BUT Diana more or less gets a free pass for breaking the same vows, because "she was in love" and "your husband is an adulterer so let's go girl".
Double standard big time folks !
No-one is denying that Diana had affairs with married people, and she behaved badly in so doing. So did Charles and Camilla, both of whom were married.

However Iluvbertie pointed out that Hewitt (a single man) could have been brought to trial under the Treason Act. If we are discussing hypocrisy, then if Hewitt had ever been brought to trial (ridiculous in the modern age) then questions would surely have been asked by the media as to why Mrs Parker Bowles shouldnt have been subject to the same treatment. That was probably the reason, if such a charge was ever seriously discussed in Hewitt's case, it was dropped.
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  #1951  
Old 08-11-2016, 08:22 PM
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Charles and Diana

Camilla was not going to mess up the Royal succession. Say Charles is Laura Parker Bowles's real father it doesn't affect the succession to the crown. There are tons of Royal illegitimate children through history. Another man being William's father is a problem


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  #1952  
Old 08-11-2016, 09:00 PM
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By the time Hewitt was around Diana the heir and spare had been born already. Charles knew Hewitt wasn't Harry's father (or anyone else's child) or he would have separated from Diana immediately the baby was born.

I do know the reasons for the Boleyn trial. At that time Henry VIII had no living male heir. That was hardly the case with Charles when Diana first met Hewitt.

One can understand, perhaps, there being doubt and confusion centuries ago with regard to adulterous Queens (though there were far fewer than adulterous Kings) as the monarch had to have legitimate offspring. However, just as with Harry, Charles knew that William was his, born in the first year of marriage.

There was absolutely no need to put Hewitt or Diana on trial, which would have been going back to a custom of previous centuries, nor do I believe that Charles ever contemplated such an action. As I've said before all it would achieve would have been ridicule and the media pointing to Mrs PB, something Charles would not have wanted.

The media would have known, as do I, about Royal succession/legitimacy issues. However, there is far more public consciousness nowadays about what is considered bad behaviour by BOTH partners in a marriage, and that's what the media would have focused on.

Regardless of the stupid jokes of DM commentators, I have no doubt at all that William and Harry's DNA has been tested and is stored safely, as is the DNA of every other member of the BRF, in case of terrorist bombs or other disasters.
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  #1953  
Old 08-11-2016, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
. . . . . In an interview very late in Lady Fermoy's life, she stated she spoke to Johnny Spencer in order to try to have him discourage Diana from any thoughts or plans to marry Charles. Johnny supposedly told his mother-in-law that if anyone ever attempted to discourage Diana or deter her from doing what she had her mind and sights set on, she was horrible to live with and the "terror" went on and on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Really? It does not give a very nice portrait of Diana does it that her own father apparently said (AND to his mother in law) that if Anyone tried to stop her doing something she was impossible to live with and it seems a holy terror that they were all afraid of.
All rather sounds liek the "Diana was a loony" slant.
This information has, of course, been around for a long time. I don't think it shows Diana as looney, more of a spoilt brat who had been overindulged. By her own words, she spoke of throwing herself down the stairs while pregnant with Harry 'to get Charles attention'. That was not the act of a rational adult but once again like a spoilt brat. A witness later reported it was only a step but it was still a tantrum. So yes, I could see an unpleasant time for everyone if Diana was thwarted. I can also see the woman who pushed her step-mother down the stairs and stuffed all her clothes and possessions in rubbish bags and tossed them out the door. There is a saying 'beauty is only skin deep, but ugly cuts to the bone'. Diana seemed to epitomise that with the cruel things she said and did to people she considered had crossed her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
why is it hypocrisy? If Charles was having an affair, i dont see why she should not. I'd agree it was foolish of her to get involved with married men, or rather to get involved in affairs that became public knowledge..
Umm, are you intimating the only problem with Diana's affairs was them becoming public knowledge? That they did become public was entirely on the head of Diana, she chose to write about them (Diana Her True Story) and speak about them (Various tapes and Panorama interview).
. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Well the hypocrisy was "we were three in this marriage", as they were, obviously, a bit more ...
Well Ken Wharfe has her cheating on her lovers so that makes 5 in the marriage at least!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
We can say that the Hypocrisy is also in the the fact that Charles and Camilla are relentlessly blamed for their affair, Charles maligned for breaking his vows BUT Diana more or less gets a free pass for breaking the same vows, because "she was in love" and "your husband is an adulterer so let's go girl".
Double standard big time folks !
Yes, it has always been a double standard. Diana is always talked about as the poor wee nineteen-year-old that married Charles, she never gets credited with actually ageing like the rest of we mere mortals. As for Charles? I believed him when he said he remained faithful until his marriage has irretrievably broken down. I watched him as he followed Diana looking like a besotted, but loveable, fool. There was much love there and he was absurdly proud of his wife, shepherding her first, introducing her to those who waited with such pride.

That the marriage didn't last is sad but the separation and divorce didn't need to be as acrimonious as it was. The public anger and hate engendered lies at Diana's door and her spiteful machinations with her book and later, her interview and tapes. I think she could even have retained the older royals support if she had not intimated that Charles was unfit to succeed his mother and worse, to say she didn't care about being not being Queen, and just wanted to be Queen of people's hearts'. It was an enormous slap in the face for HM, after all it is the Queen who should be Queen of Hearts.
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  #1954  
Old 08-12-2016, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post

I do know the reasons for the Boleyn trial. At that time Henry VIII had no living male heir. That was hardly the case with Charles when Diana first met Hewitt.

.


Hmmm well he did have offspring that could of been made into heirs. The Duke of Richmond was still living at the time. Plus children with other women as well.

He had no qualms about changing things around as it suited him. Look what he did with Mary and Elizabeth...first they are legitimate then they aren't etc.



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  #1955  
Old 08-12-2016, 01:13 AM
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Yes, I believe at one point, when Henry was near despair, he did think seriously about legitimising the Duke of Richmond. He of course, a bit like Henry's brother Arthur and later Henry's son Edward, didn't survive his teens, so I suppose it would have ended badly anyway. However, we've surely moved on since Tudor times!
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  #1956  
Old 08-12-2016, 03:24 AM
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The Treason offence would not apply to charles' affairs, only to Diana's. however it is completey absurd to think that the RF would be so foolish as to treat her affair as "treason". They would be laughed off the throne.
Yes she was foolish to engage in affairs with married men, while complaining about Chas having an affair.. but IMO her mistake was mainly in complaining about C and going public about his affair. If she had remained quiet, or if she did really want a divorce, still refrained from "going public" about C's behaviour, she could have kept her own relationships under the radar. I can see though that given the strength of the RF's/Queens trying to insist that the couple remained married, she may have felt that she was not going to get free without a dramaitc going public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
We can say that the Hypocrisy is also in the the fact that Charles and Camilla are relentlessly blamed for their affair, Charles maligned for breaking his vows BUT Diana more or less gets a free pass for breaking the same vows, because "she was in love" and "your husband is an adulterer so let's go girl".
Double standard big time folks !
I dont relentlessly blame Charles and Camilla, and in any case if you're talking about Diana, I think that like 99% of us, she saw the situation from her own POV. She believed, wrongly but it was her view, that Charles' affair with Cam was the main reason for her marriage failing..
I think she' would have been better to stay married, and put up with Camilla, and found a boyfriend of her own that woudl be a private companion for her. I dont beleive it did her any good to make the public fuss, if anyting, in the end it benefitted Charles...(though I am glad that he's found happiness iwht Cam).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
I ry.
I tend to think that Diana could be a real bearcat if she was denied or questioned about her choices. I included Bradford because I tend to find her more credible than some of the other authors especially one I cannot mention because if she reads criticism of her works, she has her lawyer notify forum Administrators that she will sue for defamation.
A
Thanks for your reply...
I think that if Lady F made this public, she was doing so in a nasty spirit against her granddaughter, and Im sceptical. IF she did this, I think it was a way of saying that SHE had made some attempt to put the marriage off, but hadn't been able to really do much, and she did it because she was so adoring of the RF and Charles and the QM that she felt uneasy that her grand daughter had behaved so "Unroyally."

John Spencer and Lady F could not actually STOP Di from marrying Charles.. what were they going to do? Tell Charles that they did not think that she was suitable?? he woudl not listen and would probalby have told them where to get off.
I think he had made his mind up and if anyone, like the Romseys told him that they didn't think Di was right for him, he refused to heed it..
I think if Di's father had felt that Di was wrong for Charles and told her this, she would have been annoyed and probalby sulked a bit,but I hardly think she would have made his life hell.. She would have gone on and married C and maybe sulked a bit with her father for a time...but she'd have cooled down, as she would have gotten what she wanted, ie marrying C...
Anyway sorry but to me, the whole thing is nonsense at least as far as J Spencer's part in it is told.. AFAICS he was delighted that his daughter was marrying the POW.
As regards Diana, she had to admit to an affair I think, if she did the interview. There were questions.. Hewitt had been very indiscreet and if she admitted to that one affair, she could avoid questions about other lovers.
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  #1957  
Old 08-12-2016, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
The Treason offence would not apply to charles' affairs, only to Diana's. however it is completey absurd to think that the RF would be so foolish as to treat her affair as "treason". They would be laughed off the throne.
Yes she was foolish to engage in affairs with married men, while complaining about Chas having an affair.. but IMO her mistake was mainly in complaining about C and going public about his affair. If she had remained quiet, or if she did really want a divorce, still refrained from "going public" about C's behaviour, she could have kept her own relationships under the radar. I can see though that given the strength of the RF's/Queens trying to insist that the couple remained married, she may have felt that she was not going to get free without a dramaitc going public.
Even if they were that foolish, by the time Diana admitted her affair in 1995 there was nothing to be done. Treason has a statute of limitations. Charges cant be brought after 3 years have passed since it ended. It ended in 1991 so no treason charges could have even been contemplated. Whether intentional, she kept it private long enough to keep her safe. Charles may have fully known, but he was going to make it public.
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  #1958  
Old 08-12-2016, 05:53 AM
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I didn't mean in my previous posts that I believed that Mrs BP would be prosecuted under the Treason Act for sleeping with Charles. I didn't and don't. Just as Charles could have faced sanctions for sleeping with the wife of a fellow officer. But of course he didn't face anything.

What I do believe would have happened, had Hewitt been charged, was that the world would have thought it huge ridiculous joke, and the British media, which was pretty well on Diana's side at that time, would have joined in, leaving the BRF and Charles with egg on their faces. Also, Charles's motives for backing such a move, and his and Camilla's relationship, would have come under intense scrutiny and criticism.

In fact there would have been so much ridicule, so much criticism, so much contempt for such a legal action, that the monarchy might well have been imperilled. It's moot anyway, as I don't believe Charles would ever have considered such a move.
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  #1959  
Old 08-12-2016, 07:51 AM
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I didn't mean in my previous posts that I believed that Mrs BP would be prosecuted under the Treason Act for sleeping with Charles. I didn't and don't. Just as Charles could have faced sanctions for sleeping with the wife of a fellow officer. But of course he didn't face anything.

W
In fact there would have been so much ridicule, so much criticism, so much contempt for such a legal action, that the monarchy might well have been imperilled. It's moot anyway, as I don't believe Charles would ever have considered such a move.
its beyond beleif that the RF would think of such things. However Curryong it is rare in the British Army that sexual "conduct unbecoming" is acted upon unless there are other issues. I think that in the US army it is more likely to cuase action to be taken.
And also since Hewitt is a brother officer of Charles, he too would be guilty of a similar "offence"..
Anyway, there was no way that the RF woudl have ever considered such a nonsensical proceeding as to use the "Treason act" against Diana.
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  #1960  
Old 08-12-2016, 09:46 AM
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I'm asuming the whole treason laws are still in place? ..... although rediculous that anyone would loose their head in this day and age for having an affair!

The role of the monarchy has changed completely since the times of Henry VIII etc., it is ornamental / pagentry not political.

To change the laws of treason (where relationships at least are concerned) could be put forward as a change to meet the current role of the monarchy.

In such a way as to not present it as an Ok to cheat on your husband or wife!
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