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  #3261  
Old 05-07-2020, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The reputed 13 times spent together before becoming engaged is the main red flag for me.
Oh, really? Were these like thirteen afternoons or something? And it is not like 13 would be a lucky number...

To me this was unknown and it makes it look like the marriage of the Shah of Persia, who did choose his later childless and then divorced bride from a staple of photographs...

This, if true, makes Charles look not very good. Especially, if one considers, that an even only emotionally ill-treated wife might perhaps lead to an Oedipus-complex and later to machismo, a Casanova-Complex with all the problems in and for the son.

What a luck, that William seems to have been become a rather stable person!
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  #3262  
Old 05-07-2020, 08:10 PM
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It is on record that Diana spent weekends with Charles at Balmoral and rather sadly, Camilla and APB hosted them for weekends at Bolehyde. So it is not like they had 13 dinner and movie dates. They spent days together.
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  #3263  
Old 05-07-2020, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
I doubt CHarles would get a second divorce no matter what so I am not surprised the marriage lasted. And it is immaterial how long Diana's and CHarles' marriage lasted. They did have royal children together. Camilla and CHarles did not, she won't be a royal ancestor in any case.
(......)

It's very unfortunate that they only found out after their engagement that it wouldn't work out. They shouldn't have married but apparently they and the people around them thought differently at that time (but most likely agree in hindsight).
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  #3264  
Old 05-07-2020, 09:09 PM
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Camila has a home of her own, to which she escapes from the more formal life at Highgrove and CH from time to time and sees her energetic young grandchildren there (no precious heirloom China around.)

That might have been a solution from the beginning of the Charles and Diana marriage. Diana could have had her own London flat, leaving Charles at KP!
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  #3265  
Old 05-07-2020, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post

That might have been a solution from the beginning of the Charles and Diana marriage. Diana could have had her own London flat, leaving Charles at KP!
Since Dian'as complaint was that she didn't see enough of Charles and that he neglected her for his hobbies and his family and his other woman, I don't see how that would be a solution.
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  #3266  
Old 05-07-2020, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
To boil everything down into a sticky icing, the main culprit here that was a determining factor in the success or failure of the marriage between Charles and Diana is that they *both* didn't take enough time to really get to know each other intimately as "best friends", explore and be honest about likes and dislikes and sharing hopes, expectations, fears, doubts. Most likely too, they never had a falling out with each other to determine how those "I love you but I don't like you too much right now" days would be and how they'd work things out.

The icing is gooey, sweet and sticky but the cake underneath it has a lot of ingredients that they just never got around to tasting.

The reputed 13 times spent together before becoming engaged is the main red flag for me.
I so agree Osipi. The two hardly knew each other IMHO. Had they spent more time together then it is possible that they might have broken up before Charles' proposed or she might have declined the honor.



With that history in mind, I am not surprised that we've seen other Windsor couples: Edward/Sophie, William/Catherine, Zara/Mike, Eugenie/Jack etc..who dated for many years before becoming engaged and married.
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  #3267  
Old 05-07-2020, 10:10 PM
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Several posts have been edited or deleted to remove bickering or off topic posts. This is a reminder that this thread is about Charles and Diana, and not about Charles and Camilla, the Snowdons, or any other royal couple. Further off topic posts, or personal exchanges between posters will be removed without notice.
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  #3268  
Old 05-08-2020, 08:24 AM
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I firmly believe if they had spent at least a year dating, more time together alone (spending most of your time with friends creates a buffer) they would never of made it to engagement point.

It's rather sad they spent so many years unhappy.

LaRae
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  #3269  
Old 05-08-2020, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I firmly believe if they had spent at least a year dating, more time together alone (spending most of your time with friends creates a buffer) they would never of made it to engagement point.

It's rather sad they spent so many years unhappy.

LaRae
I don't think so. They did have time alone but they were both blinded by their own needs, she wanted to marry and make a good marriage. She wanted security of marriying a man who could not divorce...
. He wanted to get married because he knew that he had reached the age when he really needed to consider it seriously. So they both were determined and IMO would have married even after a year's courtship.
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  #3270  
Old 05-08-2020, 09:10 AM
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Charles was advised to marry a woman of no experience. That point had been driven home to him a few years before He was serious about Davina Sheffield but her ex came forward and told about her "past" and that she had lived with him. I doubt Charles wanted that to happen again.
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  #3271  
Old 05-08-2020, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I firmly believe if they had spent at least a year dating, more time together alone (spending most of your time with friends creates a buffer) they would never of made it to engagement point.

It's rather sad they spent so many years unhappy.

LaRae

I agree. Probably one or both of them would have come to the realization that deep down their interests and personalities were not compatible for the long term.



While there was enormous pressure on Charles to marry, it would have been better for both of them to have moved on to other prospective partners.
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  #3272  
Old 05-08-2020, 01:41 PM
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Would there have been time to date for a year? I remember reading about Diana being stalked by the media even then. If so, they would not have had the time.
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  #3273  
Old 05-09-2020, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SLV View Post
Would there have been time to date for a year? I remember reading about Diana being stalked by the media even then. If so, they would not have had the time.
Generally speaking royal courtships were fairly short. And because Charles was already 31 or 2, and diana was so fascinating to the press, there was pressure. The papers wanted her for C's bride, and Charles himself was under pressure from his family who were in effect saying "Yo're getting older, you need to get yourself married.. and the press are driving us mad, if you let Diana go, its going to look bad..."

the Pressmen were chasing Diana, the interest was massive and the RF were feeling that none of them could put up with the stress for much longer. SO it was likely that under that pressure, Charles stifled his doubts and proposed. And Diana was keen to get things settled. But if there had been time for them to have a longer relationship, I don't think it would have led to the them breaking up.. I think she was able to hypnotise herself that she was the right wife for charles…and that she enjoyed all the things that he enjoyed...
He was wiling to stilfe his uneasy feelings, and they would have still ended up in a mess...
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  #3274  
Old 05-11-2020, 12:59 PM
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DIana was 19 a teen and besotted by this older man who appeared (to her) to be in love with her and she called him "amazing." Charles looking at this eager besotted teen should have done some reflecting--if he knew he did not love her then it was time to move on. Diana was still young and would IMO have moved on and found someone who returned her affection and fully returned it. From what I read, Diana had prepared herself for the possibility that there would be no proposal. I think if they had dated longer, maybe Charles would have felt he should be honest and Diana would have asked him to be more forthright with her. I don't think Diana had to hypnotise herself, she genuinely was attracted to and besotted with Charles.
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  #3275  
Old 05-11-2020, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
DIana was 19 a teen and besotted by this older man who appeared (to her) to be in love with her and she called him "amazing." Charles looking at this eager besotted teen should have done some reflecting--if he knew he did not love her then it was time to move on. Diana was still young and would IMO have moved on and found someone who returned her affection and fully returned it. From what I read, Diana had prepared herself for the possibility that there would be no proposal. I think if they had dated longer, maybe Charles would have felt he should be honest and Diana would have asked him to be more forthright with her. I don't think Diana had to hypnotise herself, she genuinely was attracted to and besotted with Charles.
but according to what Diana said later, Charles didn't see that much of her, was never affectionate, and they only had a few dates. Why would she feel that he was in love with her?
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  #3276  
Old 05-11-2020, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Generally speaking royal courtships were fairly short. And because Charles was already 31 or 2, and diana was so fascinating to the press, there was pressure. The papers wanted her for C's bride, and Charles himself was under pressure from his family who were in effect saying "Yo're getting older, you need to get yourself married.. and the press are driving us mad, if you let Diana go, its going to look bad..."

the Pressmen were chasing Diana, the interest was massive and the RF were feeling that none of them could put up with the stress for much longer. SO it was likely that under that pressure, Charles stifled his doubts and proposed. And Diana was keen to get things settled. But if there had been time for them to have a longer relationship, I don't think it would have led to the them breaking up.. I think she was able to hypnotise herself that she was the right wife for charles…and that she enjoyed all the things that he enjoyed...
He was wiling to stilfe his uneasy feelings, and they would have still ended up in a mess...
You do bring up a good point regarding the media attention and the length of the couple's courtship.


In an idea situation, it would have been better for the two to date for a longer period of time without the media realizing that they were a couple. That along with the pressure for Charles at 32 to marry as soon as possible likely contributed to him proposing when he did.



Sadly both did have reservations but both were willing to ignore them or hope that things would improve.
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  #3277  
Old 05-11-2020, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
You do bring up a good point regarding the media attention and the length of the couple's courtship.


In an idea situation, it would have been better for the two to date for a longer period of time without the media realizing that they were a couple. That along with the pressure for Charles at 32 to marry as soon as possible likely contributed to him proposing when he did.



Sadly both did have reservations but both were willing to ignore them or hope that things would improve.
I don't thnk it would have made any difference though. The media did add to the pressure but it was an "old fashioned" courtship, ie not very long, not the 2 of thtem on their own a lot, and IMO they both wanted to get married. Charles less so but I think he was feeling that it was his duty to marry and he wanted to settle down.. and Diana seemed to be the right one, even if he was not passionately in love with her. He said that he saw marriage as more of friendship than "romantic love" and she seemed to share many of his interests. She was sweet, she was attractive, she was (he thought) aware of the limitations and restrictions of royal life as her family had been courtiers... and she seemed to be happy with him and to go along with his plans.
And I think that had they been able to date for a year in private, Diana would still have convinced herself that she was enjoying the sporty weekends, the visits to Balmoral etc...so he would not have realised even after a longer time, that she didn't really enjoy a lot of the things that he enjoyed...

And I think on reflection it would have been very difficult if not impossible for the courtship to have been "secret from the press". The big royal story in the 1970s was C's love life, who his girlfriends were and who he was going to marry. The royal reporters were chasing him all the time to see who he was dating, how likely a prospect was she etc? It was different by the time Will and Kate were dating.

Tehir relationship was known about but I'd say the press knew this would not be a short romance, that this time, the RF were going to encourage William to take his time...so while they did pester the couple, there wasn't the same hot chase...and William was able to spend time with Kate, go on holidays with her, live with her and generally take literally years giving their relationship time to develop.
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  #3278  
Old 05-11-2020, 02:51 PM
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Tehir relationship was known about but I'd say the press knew this would not be a short romance, that this time, the RF were going to encourage William to take his time...so while they did pester the couple, there wasn't the same hot chase...and William was able to spend time with Kate, go on holidays with her, live with her and generally take literally years giving their relationship time to develop.
Yes Denville I agree. Also I believe that the BRF realized that the short courtships for Charles/Diana and Andrew/Sarah were not ideal. So it's not surprising to me that William, Zara and Eugenie all dated their spouses for a long time.


By the time that Prince Edward and Sophie Rhys-Jones began dating, the family appeared to be encouraging longer courtships. To date, this has been the only first marriage for the children of QEII and the DoE's that has lasted the longest as the Wessexes celebrated their 20th anniversary last year.


The second marriages for Charles and Anne appear to have been more successful too.
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  #3279  
Old 05-11-2020, 08:06 PM
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Bea took a "long time" dating Dave Clark who dropped her so the 'formula" does not always work. Anne did not have a "short" courtship with Mark Phillips--and they did have a lot of interests in common.
Charles admitted he did not love DIana through his confessions to his biographer. It was not a matter of being "passionate." She was many years younger than he was so she did not travel in his "set." He did not seem to want to see what Diana enjoyed, she had to please him. It should have been a two way street.
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  #3280  
Old 05-11-2020, 08:47 PM
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Did Charles tell Diana that he was head over heels in love with her, that she was the one for him, that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her, before he proposed or at the time he asked her to marry him?

If it was a bald 'Will you marry me?' with no declarations before or during of passion or romance or even an 'I love you, darling', then that IMO would make anyone pause before answering, even a young girl in love.

I'm inclined to believe that Charles did declare his love before he proposed, but (with what we know now) such huge reservations that what was coming out of the lips didn't match what was in the heart.
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