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  #3141  
Old 04-19-2020, 07:38 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
to the best of my knowledge Amanda had no big romantic invovlements.. so she was sutiable as a virgin bride just as Diana was.
Your are probably correct - I made an assumption based on her education and age (she was 23 or 24). My point though is that there were other "suitable" brides that would have been a better fit of personalities. I don't think that Diana was the only person available to him.

With respect to the other recent posts, which are quite interesting, I am not implying that Charles was innocent in the breakup. They didn't really know each other and he never should have proposed and his affair with Camilla was inexcusable.

At the same time, I don't think Diana was in love with Charles - she was in love with her image of the Prince of Wales. Her extramarital affairs were also inexcusable.

Charles should have had the backbone to break off the engagement as it became apparent that the marriage was not going to work. He was afraid to do so because he feared public backlash - but that was his own fault: he choose to date a 19 year woman. When the problems arose, he simply referred Diana to professional help, without making a real effort to understand her needs. Professional counseling would have helped them both in the early years.

Both Charles and Diana should have been strong enough to stand up to the Queen and even the country and divorced when their marriage actually broke down. The problems that arose because they didn't divorce were perfectly foreseeable. The fallout not only impacted them but their children.
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  #3142  
Old 04-19-2020, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Purrs View Post
IMHO the biggest reason why Charles and Diana were unhappy was a mismatch of personalities. (Although the age gap and lack of shared interests contributed.)

Both were insecure, sensitive and had unhappiness in their childhoods. Both needed a supportive spouse to lean on but neither was able to provide that for each other. IMHO they made each other worse.

I do think Charles has found that with Camilla who is more easy going and a much better match. (I've warmed to Camilla over the years as Charles is much happier and become much more relaxed.) Sadly Diana never found that although I do think Dr. Khan was the nicest man with whom she had a relationship.
Good points Purrs. Charles and Diana had very different interests and tastes. Also Charles has always reminded me of an "old soul" while Diana was a more youthful personality IMHO.
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  #3143  
Old 04-19-2020, 09:40 PM
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Well up until a few years ago I would have said that Diana saved the royal family by making them more popular and relatable and giving him two popular sons. But with what has been going on with Harry she might just have been the downfall of the royal family after all.
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  #3144  
Old 04-20-2020, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
Well up until a few years ago I would have said that Diana saved the royal family by making them more popular and relatable and giving him two popular sons. But with what has been going on with Harry she might just have been the downfall of the royal family after all.
And she nearly destroyed the RF by her publicising her unhappy marriage and continuing a war with Charles in the press. I think that the RF came to feel that whatever her good points, she did a lot of damage and though they did not like the idea at the time of a divorce, it was the best thng. She did boost the RF's popularity for a time but she undid a lot of that in the latter years of her marriage.
But Im not sure if you are blaming her for Harry's volatility.
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  #3145  
Old 04-20-2020, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Your are probably correct - I made an assumption based on her education and age (she was 23 or 24). My point though is that there were other "suitable" brides that would have been a better fit of personalities. I don't think that Diana was the only person available to him.

With respect to the other recent posts, which are quite interesting, I am not implying that Charles was innocent in the breakup. They didn't really know each other and he never should have proposed and his affair with Camilla was inexcusable.

At the same time, I don't think Diana was in love with Charles - she was in love with her image of the Prince of Wales. Her extramarital affairs were also inexcusable.

Charles should have had the backbone to break off the engagement as it became apparent that the marriage was not going to work. He was afraid to do so because he feared public backlash - but that was his own fault: he choose to date a 19 year woman. When the problems arose, he simply referred Diana to professional help, without making a real effort to understand her needs. Professional counseling would have helped them both in the early years.

Both Charles and Diana should have been strong enough to stand up to the Queen and even the country and divorced when their marriage actually broke down. The problems that arose because they didn't divorce were perfectly foreseeable. The fallout not only impacted them but their children.
I don't think there were many other women who were so "suitable" on paper as Diana.. (As for Amanda I don't believe she had had any other lovers and if she had, I doubt if C would have proposed).
Charles ahd been dating around for many years, hadn't gotten close to marriage with any other woman..and I think he was genuinely attracted to Diana, and drawn to her....and believed that she and he had enough in common to make their marriage work, even if she was not the "one true love of his life". She was a very fascinating person and I believe that she was alluring enough to him to make him think that she was suitable, she was young and would learn what she needed to learn. She knew about the RF and court life.. and they shared interests. Unfortunately Diana didn't know that much about court life.. and she didn't share his interests.. and she was unhappily damaged by her childhood problems.
And once they were engaged, even if both of them had serious doubts, the deal was doen. There was no way they could have broken the engagement. Equally, once ther marriage broke down, they could not divorce. It took years before the queen was willing to consider a divorce, and she only did so when Diana started to question the succession, in her Bashir Interview. They were not ordinary peole who could end their marriage easily...
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  #3146  
Old 04-20-2020, 09:26 AM
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As far as unhappily damaged by her childhood... equally so was Charles. He's spoken very publically about it. So one cannot blame Diana's childhood as a source of problems without also blaming his.





LaRae
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  #3147  
Old 04-20-2020, 09:28 AM
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All his friends and relatives told him they liked her except one of his Mountbatten relatives. Later after the marriage, when they were quarreling Charles told Diana that this one relative had reservations about their getting married. DIana was cold to this person from then on. But once the marriage went on the rocks, "their" friends became "his" friends and helped him find places to be with Camilla, safe houses.

I do cut Diana more slack than Charles because he was the one who had to do the proposing. And if he had any doubts he should have stopped seeing her and let her have a happy life with someone else. He admitted he did not love her when he married her. If he had told Diana this, she could have had a chance to move on. She told Morton she thought he loved her and she did love him. Charles did not have to blame others he could have manned up and spoke to Diana about how he really felt. There may have been other women who would have agreed to his terms of the marriage. and he could have found someone who did.

I don't blame Diana for her moving on. She and Charles were more or less stuck since divorce was discouraged. I don't blame her for speaking out. Charles friends were already leaking stories about her in the 1980s. Nicholas Soames went on TV to deride her. I think it was worse with Charles since Camilla was always there one way or another. It's not as if he went back to her, they were in touch and meeting at Hunts which Diana did not attend. She also had the nerve to sit in Diana's chair as hostess of Highgrove before the separation.

If CHarles had not wanted to have it all, he could have told Diana he could not continue seeing her that it would not be fair to her since he would always have Camilla in his life.
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  #3148  
Old 04-20-2020, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I don't think there were many other women who were so "suitable" on paper as Diana..
Based on what criteria of suitability? Because although maybe not uncommon in the British upper-class, I would think that an age gap of 12 1/2 years when the groom to be is 32 and the bride to be is 19, wouldn't qualify as very 'suitable' on paper. I am sure there were other 'ladies' that were closer in age and also from good families...
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  #3149  
Old 04-20-2020, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
All his friends and relatives told him they liked her except one of his Mountbatten relatives. Later after the marriage, when they were quarreling Charles told Diana that this one relative had reservations about their getting married. DIana was cold to this person from then on. But once the marriage went on the rocks, "their" friends became "his" friends and helped him find places to be with Camilla, safe houses.
.
Excuse me Sandy but are you a regular of the Daily Mail comments section ?
Your tirades seem familiar ...
Just curious.
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  #3150  
Old 04-20-2020, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Based on what criteria of suitability? Because although maybe not uncommon in the British upper-class, I would think that an age gap of 12 1/2 years when the groom to be is 32 and the bride to be is 19, wouldn't qualify as very 'suitable' on paper. I am sure there were other 'ladies' that were closer in age and also from good families...
An age gap would not have been considered unsuitable. And the ladies who were closer in age were more likely to have had other relationships, which would at the time disqualify them.
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  #3151  
Old 04-20-2020, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
As far as unhappily damaged by her childhood... equally so was Charles. He's spoken very publically about it. So one cannot blame Diana's childhood as a source of problems without also blaming his.





LaRae
Yes we all bear some scars from our childhood, but I think that Diana's were more serious. She had bulimia, she self harmed..
I think Charles was bewildered when she changed frorm seeming like a pleasant simple young woman who enjoyed the things he liked, and seemed devoted to him, to an unpredicitable young woman who was losing weight, throwing up her food and prone to tears and anger.
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  #3152  
Old 04-20-2020, 10:09 AM
QueenMathilde's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
And she nearly destroyed the RF by her publicising her unhappy marriage and continuing a war with Charles in the press. I think that the RF came to feel that whatever her good points, she did a lot of damage and though they did not like the idea at the time of a divorce, it was the best thng. She did boost the RF's popularity for a time but she undid a lot of that in the latter years of her marriage.
But Im not sure if you are blaming her for Harry's volatility.



No. Harry is his own person. I don't blame anyone, not Meghan or his mother, for his decisions. I just meant he's now become a controversial figure so maybe he's not as good for the royal family as he once was.
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  #3153  
Old 04-20-2020, 10:22 AM
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I have always been intrigued by the way we see age. My parents had a 15 year age difference and my mother was 19 when she married. Age is not a factor, people are.

Charles was besotted by his you bride and she enjoyed playing the engenue. At face value she "fitted", they were neighbours when she was young and she took tea with both the QM and the Queen. While her "education" was nothing to write home about, she was as 'finished' as any other aristocratic young women incmuding her older sisters and even Camilla. She was self confident enough that she could sit down at the piano at a private gathering and knock out a bit of Rachmaninoff and acquit herself well.

She loved the arts, so did he, she "loved the country", so did he. She loved to travel, mostly they did that on tour. She loved holidays in the sun, they holidayed with the SRF in crystal waters on their yacht rather than walking at Balmoral.

Love was there, compromise was there but Charles was not with her enough. His workload did not allow for them to weekend with Royals at houseparties in Europe, or accompany her to the ballet on a whim. Unlike her father and stepmother, her married sister's and friends, they did not have a sparkling social life. He, like his mother, didn't have time.

She felt she should come first and he was bound by duty and destiny. She decided she wanted to learn how to ride since the BRF were all horse mad. Lessons were arranged, she wanted him to spend time with her, he took her to polo.

The writing was on the wall.
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  #3154  
Old 04-20-2020, 10:25 AM
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No I am not on the Daily Mail. I have my opinion and you have yours. And no I don't do "tirades."
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  #3155  
Old 04-20-2020, 10:29 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Charles should not have been bewildered. He should have been more understanding. DIana I think was likewise bewildered by Charles wearing Camilla's cufflinks on their honeymoon.
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  #3156  
Old 04-20-2020, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
No. Harry is his own person. I don't blame anyone, not Meghan or his mother, for his decisions. I just meant he's now become a controversial figure so maybe he's not as good for the royal family as he once was.
Im not sure he was all that great. He and William were both rather Hooray Henries in their younger days, Harry seemed to take longer to outgrow that phase.. Then he did improve, he was in the army. I think that was good for him.. but sine he's come out of the army and become a full time royal, Im not sure the change was for the better. But I think that it is his marriage to Meghan that has realy changed him. Sorry, I suppose I should not go on about Harry here.. if this should be delted can someone delete it please
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  #3157  
Old 04-20-2020, 10:48 AM
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Diana and Charles should have had a honeymoon where they had a chance to get to know each other. Stephen Barry wrote that there were many members of the crew present with them on the Britannia. Then she spent time with her in laws where she would be "inspected" by the royal clan and she was having morning sickness while expected to sit down for formal dinners. I think they should have had that Caribbean trip after the wedding--they looked really relaxed and comfortable on the 1982 trip. I think whoever planned the post wedding events did not do a great job.
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  #3158  
Old 04-20-2020, 11:01 AM
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No I am not on the Daily Mail. I have my opinion and you have yours. And no I don't do "tirades."
That's what i thought ...
Thank you
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  #3159  
Old 04-20-2020, 03:08 PM
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He admitted he did not love her when he married her. If he had told Diana this, she could have had a chance to move on. She told Morton she thought he loved her and she did love him. Charles did not have to blame others he could have manned up and spoke to Diana about how he really felt. There may have been other women who would have agreed to his terms of the marriage. and he could have found someone who did.
I don't think Charles ever admitted he didn't love Diana - that was a conclusion drawn by Jonathan Dimbleby. I think Marg is correct, he besotted with her. She was certainly attractive and appeared to have a pleasant, easy going personality. He also thought they had a lot in common and would enjoy being with each other. I also disagree that Diana was in love with Charles. If he had not been the Prince of Wales, she never would have gotten involved with him.

I haven't looked the Morton book for a while, but it seems to me that Diana acknowledged that Charles did not talk about love a very much - which was a red flag if that is what she wanted. The problem was that Charles could not marry just for love - he had to marry someone who was able and willing to handle everything that went with being Princess of Wales. I don't buy that he couldn't have married someone with a past, but there were many other restrictions. He couldn't have married someone who didn't have the ability to successfully interact with a wide variety of people, who would undertake ceremonial duties, no matter how they were feeling. Diana didn't get that he had a lot of things to consider when choosing a wife, not just love.

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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
And once they were engaged, even if both of them had serious doubts, the deal was doen. There was no way they could have broken the engagement. Equally, once ther marriage broke down, they could not divorce. It took years before the queen was willing to consider a divorce, and she only did so when Diana started to question the succession, in her Bashir Interview. They were not ordinary peole who could end their marriage easily...
I agree that it would have been difficult, but it was possible for him to pull out of the engagement. It wasn't against the law, he just would have had to endure a huge public backlash. The same with the divorce. They should have insisted on it and gone forward. Again, very difficult but preferable to what actually happened.
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  #3160  
Old 04-20-2020, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Iincess of Wales. I don't buy that he couldn't have married someone with a past, but there were many other restrictions. He couldn't have married someone who didn't have the ability to successfully interact with a wide variety of people, who would undertake ceremonial duties, no matter how they were feeling. Diana didn't get that he had a lot of things to consider when choosing a wife, not just love.



I agree that it would have been difficult, but it was possible for him to pull out of the engagement. It wasn't against the law, he just would have had to endure a huge public backlash. The same with the divorce. They should have insisted on it and gone forward. Again, very difficult but preferable to what actually happened.
It would not realistically have been possible. At the time, even if theyd gone to the queen together and said they had changed their minds about getting married, I think enormous pressure from the RF would have been put on them to go ahead. It was the same with the divorce. Diana at first wanted it more than Charles, but knew that the queen would not agree to it. I think she didn't realise that Charles also wanted a divorce, but had been putting up with the whole thing because he knew that the queen would have said no. It was only after the Bashir interview that the queen finally decided that a divorce was less harmful than their going on with their war in the press. And by the time the queen said "get a divrorce" Diana had half changed her mind and was scared at the prospect of being outside the RF.. and she tried to stall...

With regard to your other point, no I certainly would nto say he was besotted with her. He was attracted, he was half n love but I think once they got engaged, he began to get uneasy vibes that Diana wasn't as simple and cheerful a girl as he had thought she was. And I think he also realised that he would never totally stop loving Camilla, but he was fond of Diana and willing to go on with it.. but with some reservations. I think that he was not all that demonstrative..and he was a busy hard working man, so he didn't always give Diana the whole hearted fussing and affection she hoped for, and she became uneasy and unhappy...
Once they were married, I thnk she began to realise that this was real life.. not a costume drama.. and that she was committed to this marriage and this way of life and family that she didn't find congenial. And it frightened her and set off all her neuroses.
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