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  #2901  
Old 07-23-2018, 08:32 PM
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Well since, at that time, they had an accord with the media whereby they would allow an annual holiday photo shoot and then the media would leave them alone for the rest of their holiday. In doing her best the screw up the shoot because she didn't see any reason 'she' had to do it, she broke the accord.

It's not much fun having photographers pop out from behind trees on the slope or staking out your accommodation.
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  #2902  
Old 07-23-2018, 08:44 PM
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Oh, what she was doing was definitely annoying, even to watch it from an outsider's perspective. I just thought it was interesting that Charles was at the point that he wasn't even trying to pretend to not be irritated by her antics.
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  #2903  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:04 PM
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The post from the other thread (Andrew/Sarah thread) ..comment was made that the first ski trip they went on (I believe in 82) as husband/wife she didn't smile...but I'd seen pics of them on that trip with her smiling....this link came up I think because it was being talked about about the state of their marriage by this point....


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  #2904  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
Oh, what she was doing was definitely annoying, even to watch it from an outsider's perspective. I just thought it was interesting that Charles was at the point that he wasn't even trying to pretend to not be irritated by her antics.
I think I'd be irritated by my wife acting like an unruly child also, especially if I wanted to get a few photos out of the way to get on with my vacation.
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  #2905  
Old 07-24-2018, 12:05 AM
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What is remarkable about the behavior is that it was public behavior. She was in her late 20's and was a mother of two sons. Inexplicably, this behavior (excruciatingly embarrassing for everyone else involved) gets rationalized by supporters as 'understandable'. She had her reasons, it will be claimed. Color me amazed that anything like this very strange behavior can be seen as anything but 'off'.

Charles' reaction? This was his 'until death us do part' situation. He's in some private hell at this point I am sure. I understand it is at this juncture (1988) when he will re-connect with Camilla. It was on this ski trip that Charles' friend was killed in a skiing accident. Not a good time for Charles, and Diana was definitely uninterested in any wifely duties (being full-over into her relationship with James Hewitt). Charles' re-connecting with an old friend and lover makes sense to me.

Anyway, this is just one of several glaring examples of public behavior on Diana's part that reeked of a serious imbalance. Right then (if not long before) the marriage should have been dissolved. JMO.
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  #2906  
Old 07-24-2018, 11:54 AM
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I don't think it reeked of imbalance...she'd been complained too that she needed to be more jolly like Sarah ...she and Sarah then got into trouble when they tried to be playful because folks thought it wasn't dignified etc.


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  #2907  
Old 07-24-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post

Anyway, this is just one of several glaring examples of public behavior on Diana's part that reeked of a serious imbalance. Right then (if not long before) the marriage should have been dissolved. JMO.
Diane had many serious mental health challenges but to ascribe this particular behavior to a "serious imbalance" is way over the top.
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  #2908  
Old 07-24-2018, 03:21 PM
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Although it didn't last very long, it's easy to forget the positive influence Sarah had on Diana at the time. Lightening up from depression, inhibitions was a good thing, even if their hijinks were on the juvenile side. Sarah was a friend Diana should have kept long term, regardless of a few bumps in the road. They had a lot of fun together while she was in the limelight, admired by Charles as well. To completely fall out like they did was not smart.
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  #2909  
Old 07-24-2018, 04:33 PM
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Well, I think it's unbalanced behavior (and I am being kind). How anyone can neatly tuck that embarrassment into the tucks and folds of being 'more jolly' confounds me. Imagine Sophie Wessex, or Camilla, or Catherine or Meghan, doing the same? Would it be seen as just being 'more jolly'? I think not.

More specifically, she was disrespectful of her husband. As a wife, and a pretty liberated one, just on a human level, I would never do that to my husband at one of his (or anyone's) red carpet events.
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  #2910  
Old 07-24-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Well, I think it it's unbalanced behavior (and I am being kind). How anyone can neatly tuck that embarrassment into the tucks and folds of being 'more jolly' confounds me. Imagine Sophie Wessex, or Camilla, or Catherine or Meghan, doing the same? Would it be seen as just being 'more jolly'? I think not.

More specifically, she was disrespectful of her husband. As a wife, and a pretty liberated one, just on a human level, I would never do that to my husband at one of his (or anyone's) red carpet events.

....that’s because you have class Lady Nimue.

I don’t think Diana respected or gave a damn about anything other than being Queen (in her mind, she was untouchable-jmo).
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  #2911  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Missjersey View Post
....that’s because you have class Lady Nimue.

I don’t think Diana respected or gave a damn about anything other than being Queen (in her mind, she was untouchable-jmo).
After a certain point though I thought she started telling people she would never be Queen?

I do think at one point she did think was untouchable--I think she thought she had control of the press for awhile.
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  #2912  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:10 PM
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I don't think so. From what I know, they had been leading separate lives for quite a while before the separation was announced. She would mostly stay at Kensington Palace in London while Charles preferred Highgrove.

Also, at the time of the separation, Diana had already cast her net elsewhere and was involved with different men besides Charles. The separation was just the public announcement that they've separated formally.
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  #2913  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
After a certain point though I thought she started telling people she would never be Queen?

Probably, when her past was starting to catch up with her


I do think at one point she did think was untouchable--I think she thought she had control of the press for awhile.
Not only that, I think she thought she could manipulate her husband. For me, her “playing coy to the hilt” was overtaken with a cockiness for anything or anybody that got in her way.
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  #2914  
Old 07-25-2018, 12:25 AM
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Did Diana feel bereft without Charles after the separation? He had been the focus of her life over eleven years.
He had hardly been the 'focus of her life' as she had been having her own affairs for more than half her married life.

They were effectively separated by the middle of 1985 even if they didn't announce it until the end of 1992 so she knew what life was like without Charles in it for over 7 years before the official separation and she started her own affairs shortly afterwards, if not earlier.
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  #2915  
Old 07-25-2018, 12:30 AM
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Did Diana feel bereft without Charles after the separation? He had been the focus of her life over eleven years.
The focus of her life during the marriage were her sons and a series of lovers (I'm afraid to say). Though in terms of push-back, and having to be around Charles for royal occasions, he certainly was front-and-center in her life.

My impression is the full force of what she had given up hit her once they were divorced. That's understandable. Doors shut for Diana, and as much as she seemed hell-bent on denigrating the BRF, they had been a safety. It must have been a sad realization. I feel nothing but compassion for her during those years.

P.S. I am unclear why I know this (bad memory: blame children) but I have the little factoid that Diana said that Charles was the love of her life, or someone made that assessment: that she never got over Charles. Maybe someone else knows about this. It makes it all the more sad. She had it all, and could have kept it all, too. Too sad. A tragedy.
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  #2916  
Old 07-25-2018, 07:37 AM
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I think she loved Charles, he was the first love of her life really (consider how young she was)...but that was tied up with the security and stability she wanted also..that was part of the attraction, along with fairy tale aspect. He was a huge part of her life, good and bad, for most of her life.

She loved other men but that would of been very different.


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  #2917  
Old 07-25-2018, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Missjersey View Post
I don’t think Diana respected or gave a damn about anything other than being Queen (in her mind, she was untouchable-jmo).
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I do think at one point she did think was untouchable--I think she thought she had control of the press for awhile.
Agree. The public adulation (and press adulation) went to her head. Her sense of herself seems to have been a function of her public mirror.

When Charles started to be hectored in the press (after he gave a speech criticizing societal/commercial 'powers' - mid 80's?) she became brazen in her public distancing from Charles.

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After a certain point though I thought she started telling people she would never be Queen?
When her attempts at self-justication for her treasonous act (adultery) back-fired, she started that.
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  #2918  
Old 08-02-2018, 12:16 AM
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Diana's friend Lucia Flecha de Lima said that about her, I believe. Both Charles and Diana are supposed to have said that they were "very much in love" at the beginning. She did an interview with Ingrid Seward not long before she died in which she said there were love letters between Charles and her that would prove to anyone that they loved each other.

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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
P.S. I am unclear why I know this (bad memory: blame children) but I have the little factoid that Diana said that Charles was the love of her life, or someone made that assessment: that she never got over Charles. Maybe someone else knows about this. It makes it all the more sad. She had it all, and could have kept it all, too. Too sad. A tragedy.
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  #2919  
Old 08-03-2018, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
The focas the love of her life, or someone made that assessment: that she never got over Charles. Maybe someone else knows about this. It makes it all the more sad. She had it all, and could have kept it all, too. Too sad. A tragedy.
How did she "have it all?" Charles was at best mildly fond of her, he never deeply loved her.. So she did't have his love, which she wanted.. I don't blame Charles for not faling in love wit her, but it is not right to claim that Diana "had it all and threw it away". she didn't. She had a position as Princess, she had public adoration. she was good at her job and she had her children. But she didn't have her husband's love.... so how could she have "kept it?
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  #2920  
Old 08-03-2018, 03:38 AM
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How did she "have it all?" Charles was at best mildly fond of her, he never deeply loved her. So she didn't have his love, which she wanted.
How do you know? You are stating this as though it is fact. How do you know Charles was 'mildly fond of her'? How do you know that 'she didn't have his love'?

Diana most assuredly had it all. Even Camilla told her she did.

But what exactly did Diana want? The man was doing all he could to satisfy her demands. Nothing seemed to work. The upsets were never ending. What did she want?

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I don't blame Charles for not falling in love with her
How do you know he didn't? The man seemed to be crushed as his marriage did a spiral. How do you know Charles did not love Diana?

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but it is not right to claim that Diana "had it all and threw it away". She didn't.
'Not right'? How 'not right'? She was destined to be the First Lady of the Land, the Queen. She had reached the social pinnacle of her class. She had a devoted husband, willing to work with her every need. She had privilege, wealth, and to some extent significant influence. Her job was to make her marriage work, professionally and privately. Her job was to respect the man that asked her to marry her, not throw him (and his family) under the bus when she needed barricades to protect her when her marital failures were coming to light.

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She had a position as Princess, she had public adoration. She was good at her job and she had her children. But she didn't have her husband's love.... so how could she have "kept it"?
Again, you accept this notion that she didn't have her husband's love. Where do you get that?

Diana willingly strayed from her marriage quite early. I personally think she always intended to do so, not as in premeditated, but as in that was the only kind of marriage she saw modeled to her. Her parents had lovers on-the-side, so would she. Why not? It was the way it was done. Nothing about this would surprise her.

I am going to suggest something few people consider: that it was Charles that was shocked at the extent to which Diana had no intention of keeping to the marriage. It is Charles who demonstrates a steady one-partner loyalty. It is Diana who demonstrates a very ebullient love life. Diana found Charles boring and tedious and (fill in the blank). She moved on. She did not 'keep' what she had.
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