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  #2621  
Old 08-19-2017, 02:36 AM
Majesty
 
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I don't think she thought that far ahead. I think she just was initially thrilled htat she had caught her prince.. that she was going to be a Princess and she already had had enough interest from the Press to feel that she would be a very popular loved Princess. She didn't realise that that public and press attention would become so stressful In due course ,.
I think she just was very instinctive and felt "Oh I've got my man, I love him and he loves me and we'll be so happy"...
and bit by bit the realities of marriage and life as a royal "hit her" and she realised that it wasn't all "happy stuff". She had to move into a palace, and perhaps at first the whole preparing fro the wedding was exciting and made her happy even fi she found Charles was busy and distant.. and she didn't see as much of her friends and began to miss the cosy Chelsea girl lifestyle..
Then the honeymoon happened and she was stressed, bulimic, realising that Charles still cared for Camilla and probably feeling that she herself wasn't able to please him as much as Cam did. And that she was rather lonely when he was reading or expecting her to join in reading books with her, rather than chatting idly or engaging in fun sports...
But I still believe that it was really the whole formal life at Balmoral that made her realise this isn't a movie.. this is real life and its one she hated and found very dificutl but that she was stuck In it..
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  #2622  
Old 08-19-2017, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Diana was very possessive. To her, how much a person loved her was shown by what he'd do for her, give up for her and should be there attending to her every whim. Giving something up herself never crossed her mind or thinking of what Charles needed to make him happy didn't enter into the picture much either. Everything external that took him away from her, she perceived as a threat to her marriage and did her best to eradicate them from their lives.

Marriage doesn't work that way.
That's not quite true. She did make attempts, such as trying to learn to ride when she had lost her nerve.. She tried to be a good Princess even though at times it scared her partly because she wanted ot please him. She tried to make the RF like her, albeit she did it by giving expensive thoughtful presents. Her dressmaker said that she was constantnly focussed on Charles, always wanting to look pretty and sexy to please him...
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  #2623  
Old 08-19-2017, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
sorry what post?
The one I quoted when responding!

Is there a method of holding on to the "quote" as well as the response when replying to the latter?
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  #2624  
Old 08-19-2017, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Diana was very possessive. To her, how much a person loved her was shown by what he'd do for her, give up for her and should be there attending to her every whim. Giving something up herself never crossed her mind or thinking of what Charles needed to make him happy didn't enter into the picture much either. Everything external that took him away from her, she perceived as a threat to her marriage and did her best to eradicate them from their lives.



Marriage doesn't work that way.


How do you know what she said and did ? This what annoys me on the Diana threads people make comments as if they were part of the family or part of their marriage. It's the same with Will and Harry. "They don't say nice things about Charles and he has been has been a wonderful father" how do you know what sort of father he has been he might be violent verbally or distant
Nobody knows exactly what goes on behind closed door and people can be shocked when things come out.
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  #2625  
Old 08-19-2017, 06:46 AM
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A lot of what happened "behind closed doors" has been chronicled in various books from Sally Bedell Smith who did extensive interviews with people that knew Diana well to Wendy Berry who was the housekeeper at Highgrove to Ken Wharfe who was her personal protection officer.

Neither one of these people take sides but try and portray an accurate picture of the relationship between Charles and Diana. I like to think that we don't take sides here either but discuss the various aspects of Charles and Diana's relationship. To me, if I've read about a certain event in several books, chances are the information is valid.

Sometimes even I think Charles is the one that had the patience of a saint with having to deal with Diana's issues. Both Charles and Diana have their good points and their not so nice points. The best way to look at it all is objectively.
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  #2626  
Old 08-19-2017, 08:39 AM
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Speaking of Wendy Berry (former housekeeper at Highgrove), when it was announced in the winter/spring that there would be a slew of programs about Diana in the run up to the anniversary of her death, Wendy was on the top of my list of people I wanted to hear from. I guess I am not going to get my wish.
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  #2627  
Old 08-19-2017, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post

The reports from 1981 - 82 show this very clearly with his friends commenting that he was so much 'in love' with Diana that they were dropped for her and also reports of him getting rid of long-term faithful staff etc - at her insistance.
I did not know that. That is what I love about this forum. I always learn something new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Diana was very possessive. To her, how much a person loved her was shown by what he'd do for her, give up for her and should be there attending to her every whim. Giving something up herself never crossed her mind or thinking of what Charles needed to make him happy didn't enter into the picture much either. Everything external that took him away from her, she perceived as a threat to her marriage and did her best to eradicate them from their lives.

Marriage doesn't work that way.
I did not realize that. It is unfortunate that she felt that way.
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  #2628  
Old 08-19-2017, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I did not realize that. It is unfortunate that she felt that way.
Its been brought up in several biographies on Diana. As you were the one that presented the "what if" scenario in which Diana grew up in a stable, loving home, this possessiveness trait that Diana exhibited stemmed directly from her experience with her parents breaking up when she was at a young age. Its the fear of abandonment and is very common. Diana craved a marriage that would last and it was easy for her to see things that normally wouldn't be threatening as something that would put a wedge in the marriage. She tried to hold on too tightly.

Sometimes the harder one tries to hold onto something, the easier it is for them to have it fly the coop away from them.

As been stated, both Charles and Diana had their positive and negative aspects to their character. We all do. People are like magnets. Sometimes character traits serve to draw people together and they stick. Sometimes the character traits are so very different that no matter how hard they try, they repel each other and never connect. Some things cannot be forced. Some people mesh together like peanut butter and jelly while some are like oil and vinegar and never go together well.

I think a lot of problems in Charles and Diana's marriage would have been easier resolved had there not been the expectation of "no divorce" or putting on a public face and fake it until you make it. It just all made the lives of two people miserable for far longer than it should have.
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  #2629  
Old 08-19-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I did not realize that. It is unfortunate that she felt that way.
That is somewhat exaggerated. She was possessive.. but she was very young and insecure, and Charles was a loner who had already given his deepest love to another woman.
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  #2630  
Old 08-19-2017, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I did not realize that. It is unfortunate that she felt that way.


Once again we don't know how she felt because we weren't part of her life. And if something is said often enough then we tend to think it's true even if it's not.
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  #2631  
Old 08-19-2017, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Once again we don't know how she felt because we weren't part of her life. And if something is said often enough then we tend to think it's true even if it's not.
well if that's the case then there is no point in discussing anything. There is evidence, clear enough that Diana was afraid of her loved ones deserting her... She feared her friends would leave her or sell her out to the press...
I just don't tink it was SO bad as some make out. It was a real problem but it was IMO understandable that she would feel that way when she had lost her mother at a young and vulnerable age..and never got over the loss.... or quite trusted her mother again
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  #2632  
Old 08-19-2017, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Once again we don't know how she felt because we weren't part of her life. And if something is said often enough then we tend to think it's true even if it's not.
When several different people that *were* a part of her life all state the same thing, it tends to be credible.
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  #2633  
Old 08-19-2017, 06:56 PM
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all depends. How reliable are they? Do they have an agenda? I think it is true that Diana was clingy, and frightened of losing or being betrayed by people..
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  #2634  
Old 08-19-2017, 07:12 PM
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The most credible information to me comes from those sources that have no reason to have an agenda other than to speak out about what they knew of Diana as a person from an objective point of view. They weren't her closest of friends or deemed to be "the enemy" but observers of her day to day life.

Bedell Smith = well researched biography with extensive interviews
Housekeeper = Saw the day to day interactions but did not take sides
Wharfe = A person in service as protection officer with a job to do.

None of these people had any kind of an emotional attachment to either Charles or Diana such as perhaps Paul Burrell did. That's why I don't count Burrell as ever being objective. He was too close to Diana. Same with Andrew Morton's books. Those are definitely based on how Diana saw things from her own viewpoint which is totally subjective.

To really be objective though, its best to look at things from all angles and get all viewpoints and from there, form our own opinions. My aim is never to denigrate or character assassinate either Charles or Diana and their marriage was like many other marriages around the world that just didn't work out for various reasons. Theirs just happened to be one that was very much played out in the public eye and everyone followed the good, the bad and the ugly of these two people. We enjoy discussing it here and there are authors that are out to make a quick buck or want to set the story straight or just plain want to write their memoirs about their time with Charles and Diana.

Diana is dead and nothing is going to bring her back. Charles has moved on in his life and is now happily married. The mismatched marriage of Charles and Diana still continues to be a popular subject for a lot of people and I do find it fascinating piecing together the differences of these two people and why they didn't work together. No one is a saint or a sinner but two human beings whose marital drama was very, very public because one of the parties in the marriage wanted it to be that way.
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  #2635  
Old 08-19-2017, 07:55 PM
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Yes, Diana was afraid of people selling her out...and in some cases she was correct in that fear.

We rarely hear nowadays for instance of Camilla and the editor of the Sun newspaper keeping regularly in touch for nearly ten years from 1981, (one might ask why) or of people like Nicholas Soames (one of Charles's greatest friends) questioning Diana's sanity to the Press.

Or for that matter, Emillie van Cutsem, whom Diana thought of as a second mother when she was a young bride, being only one of several who offered their homes to Charles and his mistress for their liaisons later in the marriage. In fact, according to penny Junor's bio on Camilla this 'motherly' woman was the one who 'persuaded' Camilla to meet Charles again in the first place.

As for Diana giving interviews Charles's interview with Dimbleby came first. Charles didn't mind spilling the beans about Mrs PB on that occasion to millions of viewers. However that backfired as the public reacted badly.

According to Sarah Bradford, Charles publicly blamed his Private Secretary for that interview when he himself had been persuaded into it by Jonathon Dimbleby. He then asked the Duchess of Westminster for her view on his interview. When she politely stated that she didn't think it was a good idea he didn't speak to her for the rest of the weekend. (They were fellow guests at a house party.)

So please let's not pretend here that Charles wasn't and isn't capable of pettiness and petulant behaviour, or using the media for his own ends, or allowing his friends to do so. Or of manipulating his own image with favourable stories. Mark Bolland, remember him?
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  #2636  
Old 08-19-2017, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes, Diana was afraid of people selling her out...and in some cases she was correct in that fear.

We rarely hear nowadays for instance of Camilla and the editor of the Sun newspaper keeping regularly in touch for nearly ten years from 1981, (one might ask why) or of people like Nicholas Soames (one of Charles's greatest friends) questioning Diana's sanity to the Press.

Or for that matter, Emillie van Cutsem, whom Diana thought of as a second mother when she was a young bride, being only one of several who offered their homes to Charles and his mistress for their liaisons later in the marriage. In fact, according to penny Junor's bio on Camilla this 'motherly' woman was the one who 'persuaded' Camilla to meet Charles again in the first place.

As for Diana giving interviews Charles's interview with Dimbleby came first. Charles didn't mind spilling the beans about Mrs PB on that occasion to millions of viewers. However that backfired as the public reacted badly.

According to Sarah Bradford, Charles publicly blamed his Private Secretary for that interview when he himself had been persuaded into it by Jonathon Dimbleby. He then asked the Duchess of Westminster for her view on his interview. When she politely stated that she didn't think it was a good idea he didn't speak to her for the rest of the weekend. (They were fellow guests at a house party.)

So please let's not pretend here that Charles wasn't and isn't capable of pettiness and petulant behaviour, or using the media for his own ends, or allowing his friends to do so. Or of manipulating his own image with favourable stories. Mark Bolland, remember him?
You are quite right. Diana had her insecurities and was, most probably, clingy. She thought she was his wife and to that end, his loyalty would be hers. That he had a better option for himself was his problem. I don't believe he ever gave up or would give up Camilla. She was his love. Right or wrong. And the puzzle didn't fit. He is a petulant and petty man at times, as has been reported. Remember he is the Prince Of Wales. He has been spoiled from the start. He had expectations and never was he thinking he would taken second seat to his wife. Now, he has what he wants. SDo, for him all is good.
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  #2637  
Old 08-19-2017, 08:27 PM
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Life has a way of bringing out the best in people and the worse in people and no one is an exception.

In a marriage, it takes two people to make it work or two people to make it hell on earth. The problems between Diana and Charles were so diverse and complicated there was no way that they could make it work. All the crap that's been in the public eye and the interviews and the tell all books and the finger pointing are the effects of a marriage in turmoil. The marriage started out with the best intentions and we all know what road best intentions pave.

One thing did come out of it that is good and that is that short courtships and quick engagements because they look good on paper don't cut it anymore. Its good that now couples are encouraged to know that they mesh together in ordinary life and have trial and error before taking those vows. I really think that is the main factor why Diana and Charles' marriage didn't work. They had no clue of who the other person really was by experiencing living and being with each other. They married in haste and really, really repented that move for years afterwards.
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  #2638  
Old 08-19-2017, 08:32 PM
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I believe that Diana's ability to believe that she was loveable lay at the base of her problems. She needed constant positive reinforcement, Charles telling her she was loved only covered that moment. Every day he needed to "prove" he loved her.

Believing herself unloved she saw other friends of either sex as competition. She didn't quite grasp that love multiplied exponentially but rather seemed to believe any attention, praise or affection was given to anyone else, be they friends or employees, Diana saw as taken from her.
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  #2639  
Old 08-19-2017, 08:52 PM
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But Charles was a needy and insecure individual as well, due to his cold childhood.

The trouble was that Charles and Diana needed things from each other that each was incapable of providing. Plus, marrying someone whom you discover really isn't in love with you but is bound heart and soul to another, would be more than a bit shattering to anyone.
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  #2640  
Old 08-19-2017, 11:13 PM
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If you start married life being in love with someone other then your wife you don't get any sympathy from me.
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