The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2461  
Old 06-30-2017, 02:46 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 12,091
I watched the Charles and Diana wedding (I was around 16 I think) and after that didn't really pay much attention to the BRF for quite some time ..maybe 10 or so years later I started paying attention to them again...not long before the book came out.

THE book...it was quite shocking in it's details and myself I had no idea she was involved and considered it was probably like the tabloid stories and not as much truth to it.

After more and more was known...I started to realize things were quite a mess and there was more truth to the book. Now Dr Phil says something along the lines of it's their perception of what went on, it's their truth how they saw it. Because you don't see it as the truth doesn't negate how they viewed it or if they are right or not.

I think this is the case here....this was mostly Diana's version of how she saw things...and therefore to understand it you need to look at things thru her viewpoint....and in all fairness the same applies to Charles and his view.

I watch the Panorama program as it happened ...(and I saw Charles's interview also). Honestly I have more sympathy to Diana (in some things) simply because I think it was badly done of him to ask him to marry her considering everything we know.


LaRae
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2462  
Old 06-30-2017, 03:18 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 12,091
You know what they say about the road to hell....well Charles learned that one.


LaRae
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2463  
Old 06-30-2017, 03:24 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 15,331
... and had to walk it barefoot it seems at times too.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #2464  
Old 06-30-2017, 03:30 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 12,091
Permanent scars I'd say.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #2465  
Old 06-30-2017, 08:09 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
You know what they say about the road to hell....well Charles learned that one. LaRae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
... and had to walk it barefoot it seems at times too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Permanent scars I'd say. LaRae
Yep. And it's never really over for him. Sadly, the sons he loves are not his support.

What a lesson: consider well who you marry! Listen well, my children, to this story, of a Princeling long ago, who took a maiden for to marry......who could have predicted all the woe!
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #2466  
Old 06-30-2017, 08:14 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 12,091
I have always gotten the impression the boys supported Charles and had a good relationship with him.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #2467  
Old 06-30-2017, 08:20 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I have always gotten the impression the boys supported Charles and had a good relationship with him. LaRae
Not if one follows the breadcrumbs. It's the great unsaid. Very sad.
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #2468  
Old 06-30-2017, 08:23 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 12,091
Hmmm I haven't seen that and I'm usually pretty good at body language and catching things.




LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #2469  
Old 06-30-2017, 08:31 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 15,331
Again, I think there's is something at play here. To the public eye and the press, what is seen is the boy's relationship with their father, The Prince of Wales. In private, that's where the closeness probably shines with the relationship between father and sons.

Bearing the scars from everything and anything splashed all over the tabloids of what was going down in the private lives, do we really blame them for keeping a lid on their private relationships with each other? I believe these people are a lot closer with each other than what we actually see and hear.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #2470  
Old 06-30-2017, 09:12 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,399
This is from Penny Junor's book. She spoke to many of Charles and Camilla's circle and has spoken on many occasions to Charles and to Camilla herself, so she knows quite a bit about them.
She herself notes that 'Discussions about their mother between the Princes and their father had always been very difficult'. She quotes a friend of Harry and William about it and no doubt believes his statement to be true or she wouldn't have put it in the biography.

'There is no doubt they' (W and H) ' love their father but from everything I've seen he is a complex man and difficult to be the son of sometimes, and his reactions to things aren't always as elevated as we might want them to be. Anything to do with their mother is really tricky. Their sensitivity about being seen to say anything about their mother is very noticeable. 'Talk about our mother? Oh God, we don't talk enough about our dad!'

'They are very careful of Charles's sensitivities and dance around them a lot. Like at the service'. (The tenth anniversary memorial service for Diana, where people have noted seeing that Charles looks over Harry's written tribute to his mother when he greets him.)

The friend remarks 'He, Charles, was very sensitive about where he sat and what it said.'

That memorial service was to bring together the Spencers and the royals, two sides that had been divided since Diana's death. Junor notes that Charles 'made a meal of the seating arrangements via his aide Michael Peat' (raising various objections.) William gave up but Harry said 'F... this!' and phoned his father. He said 'Right dad, you're sitting here, someone else is sitting there...blah, blah. Are you happy?' 'Oh Yes' Charles said. 'I suppose so'. ' William sat with his father at the service, Harry with the Spencers, opposite.

Now that portion of the latest bio from Penny Junor 'The Duchess' shows that there is some creeping about on eggshells going on in Charles and William and Harry's family relationship and it's Charles who's cracking the eggs. If this is coming from one of Charles and Camilla's greatest supporters, Penny Junor, heaven knows what really goes on!
Reply With Quote
  #2471  
Old 06-30-2017, 09:25 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
This is from Penny Junor's book. She spoke to many of Charles and Camilla's circle and has spoken on many occasions to Charles and to Camilla herself, so she knows quite a bit about them.
She herself notes that 'Discussions about their mother between the Princes and their father had always been very difficult'. She quotes a friend of Harry and William about it and no doubt believes his statement to be true or she wouldn't have put it in the biography.

'There is no doubt they' (W and H) ' love their father but from everything I've seen he is a complex man and difficult to be the son of sometimes, and his reactions to things aren't always as elevated as we might want them to be. Anything to do with their mother is really tricky. Their sensitivity about being seen to say anything about their mother is very noticeable. 'Talk about our mother? Oh God, we don't talk enough about our dad!'

'They are very careful of Charles's sensitivities and dance around them a lot. Like at the service'. (The tenth anniversary memorial service for Diana, where people have noted seeing that Charles looks over Harry's written tribute to his mother when he greets him.)

The friend remarks 'He, Charles, was very sensitive about where he sat and what it said.'

That memorial service was to bring together the Spencers and the royals, two sides that had been divided since Diana's death. Junor notes that Charles 'made a meal of the seating arrangements via his aide Michael Peat' (raising various objections.) William gave up but Harry said 'F... this!' and phoned his father. He said 'Right dad, you're sitting here, someone else is sitting there...blah, blah. Are you happy?' 'Oh Yes' Charles said. 'I suppose so'. ' William sat with his father at the service, Harry with the Spencers, opposite.

Now that portion of the latest bio from Penny Junor 'The Duchess' shows that there is some creeping about on eggshells going on in Charles and William and Harry's family relationship and it's Charles who's cracking the eggs. If this is coming from one of Charles and Camilla's greatest supporters, Penny Junor, heaven knows what really goes on!
It's no secret that Charles isn't an easy character. And walking on eggshells around things like seating arrangements is something that's familiar to many children of divorced parents - this situation being compounded by the fact that the parents are who they are and one of them is dead!

William and Harry have both spoken highly about their father in the past, though, and he seems to get on quite well with Kate. Hopefully they'll all keep making an effort to overcome any issues they may have.
Reply With Quote
  #2472  
Old 07-01-2017, 12:22 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,660
I would imagine that it was bound to be difficult, the 2007 service with the Spencers being present, and the row over Camilla going.
however i'm surprised that the boys are "dancing arournd" with what they say about their mother In public.. as it seems to me that they talk about her quite a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #2473  
Old 07-01-2017, 12:29 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,399
Yes, there have been changes I would guess in the last couple of years. Maybe the brothers have just got sick of the dancing around the subject. However, I think Charles's sensitivities still have to be considered.
Reply With Quote
  #2474  
Old 07-01-2017, 04:22 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,660
I would say they have talked about her quite a bit over the years, long before now. However, he is their father and even if he is a bit prickly, I think that they love him and it is right that they take his feelings into account. he is paying for a lot of their lifestyle after all.
Reply With Quote
  #2475  
Old 07-01-2017, 07:32 AM
Jacknch's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,401
Please note that posts relating to the Panorama Interview have been moved to the following thread: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...5-a-15636.html - lets please stay on topic.
__________________
JACK
Reply With Quote
  #2476  
Old 07-01-2017, 08:28 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Originally Posted by Denville


No 'Diana seems to have said' about it.

The entire world heard him say it in the engagement interview.

His actual words are 'whatever in love means' as clearly heard here.
I said that she said he used the words "whatever love means" at the proposal.. I know that he said it at the interview, but Diana said that he said to her when proposing in answer to her saying "I love you".. "whatever love means". And I take leave to doubt that....
Reply With Quote
  #2477  
Old 07-01-2017, 09:55 AM
Queen Claude's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 1,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
This is from Penny Junor's book. She spoke to many of Charles and Camilla's circle and has spoken on many occasions to Charles and to Camilla herself, so she knows quite a bit about them.
She herself notes that 'Discussions about their mother between the Princes and their father had always been very difficult'. She quotes a friend of Harry and William about it and no doubt believes his statement to be true or she wouldn't have put it in the biography.

'There is no doubt they' (W and H) ' love their father but from everything I've seen he is a complex man and difficult to be the son of sometimes, and his reactions to things aren't always as elevated as we might want them to be. Anything to do with their mother is really tricky. Their sensitivity about being seen to say anything about their mother is very noticeable. 'Talk about our mother? Oh God, we don't talk enough about our dad!'

'They are very careful of Charles's sensitivities and dance around them a lot. Like at the service'. (The tenth anniversary memorial service for Diana, where people have noted seeing that Charles looks over Harry's written tribute to his mother when he greets him.)

The friend remarks 'He, Charles, was very sensitive about where he sat and what it said.'

That memorial service was to bring together the Spencers and the royals, two sides that had been divided since Diana's death. Junor notes that Charles 'made a meal of the seating arrangements via his aide Michael Peat' (raising various objections.) William gave up but Harry said 'F... this!' and phoned his father. He said 'Right dad, you're sitting here, someone else is sitting there...blah, blah. Are you happy?' 'Oh Yes' Charles said. 'I suppose so'. ' William sat with his father at the service, Harry with the Spencers, opposite.

Now that portion of the latest bio from Penny Junor 'The Duchess' shows that there is some creeping about on eggshells going on in Charles and William and Harry's family relationship and it's Charles who's cracking the eggs. If this is coming from one of Charles and Camilla's greatest supporters, Penny Junor, heaven knows what really goes on!
Thank you very much for this summary.

I don't dispute Junor's representation and assessment of things but I do wonder if it is outdated since obviously William and Harry do discuss their mother in public without feeling the need to give equal time to Charles nor presumably letting his sensitivities be paramount, and I highly doubt that Charles has become substantially more sanguine about the matter.
Reply With Quote
  #2478  
Old 07-01-2017, 01:42 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 15,331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
Thank you very much for this summary.

I don't dispute Junor's representation and assessment of things but I do wonder if it is outdated since obviously William and Harry do discuss their mother in public without feeling the need to give equal time to Charles nor presumably letting his sensitivities be paramount, and I highly doubt that Charles has become substantially more sanguine about the matter.
I am leaning towards the opinion that, over the years, Charles probably did mellow into a state where he could happily recall the good times he had with Diana. Emotions and thoughts about an acrimonious marriage and divorce tend to be a lot different while actually going through it than years later.

Charles proved that he could do right by his ex-wife just by the examples he set around the time of the fatal accident. He didn't have to go to Paris to escort her body back to the UK. He didn't have to get so involved in assuring that Diana's funeral was fitting for who she was. He didn't have to walk behind her coffin with her sons. He did these things. He loves his sons and at one time, loved their mother.

Twenty years after all this happened, he's a man much more comfortable in his own skin. He's happy and secure in a loving marriage and his children have grown into adults. He's moved on with his life. I don't think it would be difficult to imagine that he'd happily share the good memories with his boys because, when we think about it, his boys are two of the best things that came out of their marriage. Diana is a part of who they all are and as time passed, the hurts and anger fade away and the good is what remains.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #2479  
Old 07-01-2017, 03:42 PM
Queen Claude's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 1,108
I think we may be talking about different timeframes. I think that Charles' harshest feelings towards Diana had mellowed even before her death, in fact I am not sure that Charles even had the same level of bitterness towards Diana that she had towards him. However that does not mean that Charles did not have, if not issues with Diana herself, issues that were rooted in his bad marriage to Diana, the War of the Wales and the response to her death that affected, among other things, his relationship with his sons. Also it should be noted that (IMO) Charles also has issues and shortcomings that can't be totally attributed to his and Diana's messy relationship.

My interpretation is that Curryong's summary was mostly about the years after Diana's death and Charles is described as "a complex man and difficult to be the son of sometimes, and his reactions to things aren't always as elevated as we might want them to be. Anything to do with their mother is really tricky." It seems like William and Harry reacted by themselves being sensitive to Charles sensitivities. The example given to illustrate how William and Harry "danced around" Charles's sensitivities was to relay what happened during the planning of a memorial service that took place ten years after Diana's death.

My point is that William and Harry's current behavior does not jibe with what is being described in Junor's book and that (IMO) it is not Charles who has changed in the ensuing ten years, rather it is William and Harry who have changed and they are no longer allowing themselves to be hamstrung by Charles's "sensitivities".
Reply With Quote
  #2480  
Old 07-01-2017, 04:05 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 15,331
Its just occurred to me reading your post, Queen Claude, at the root of everything were two people that had some serious issues of their own but expressed them quite differently. Charles, the introvert and sensitive, kept things that bothered him pretty close to the vest. Diana, with a more extroverted nature, expressed hers openly and sometimes even exaggerated them. William and Harry grew up with the both of them and knew them both extremely well.

Both Charles and Diana were seeking the same things from each other but neither one of them could fill that role. I do think Charles has mellowed and has become a more confident person due to having found a relationship that is nurturing and supportive. Its just sad that Diana never really had the chance to find her own nurturer to balance her out.
__________________

__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diana princess of wales, marriage, prince charles, prince of wales, princess diana


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Charles and Diana Picture Thread Josefine Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 449 10-11-2019 12:46 AM
Charles and Diana: Visit to Italy - 1985 jun5 Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 57 09-02-2012 09:35 PM




Popular Tags
abu dhabi althorp american history anastasia anastasia once upon a time ancestry british royals chittagong countess of snowdon crown princess victoria diana princess of wales dutch dutch royals family tree future games haakon vii hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hill history house of glucksburg imperial household interesting intro israel jack brooksbank jacobite japan jewelry jumma kids movie king salman king willem-alexander list of rulers mailing maxima monaco history nepal nobel prize norwegian royal family prince charles prince charles of luxembourg princess ariane princess catharina-amalia princess chulabhorn walailak princess elizabeth princess ribha pronunciation queen louise queen maxima royal balls royal events royal jewels royal wedding saudi arabia serbian royal family snowdon spain speech spencer family sweden taiwan thailand thai royal family tracts unsubscribe videos wedding gown wittelsbach


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020
Jelsoft Enterprises
×