The Duchess of Sussex: Family and Background

[Dalriada]

But this isn’t about the Hale’s who were brought up by their dad and grandparents, a completely different family, IS IT ?!

And no it isn’t just about Sammy, Tommy or Pa Markle either. Or as you claim, just - “a bit from one uncle”. That Markle uncle has whined to the newspapers about wedding invitations on three separate occasions now (the latest rant just recently) so it is hardly “just a bit”... There appears to be a pattern of writing begging letters to the royal palaces from that paternal side, too. His daughter Thomas Markle Sr’ niece (like Tom Jr.) also sent a begging letter via the Palace to Prince Harry at one point. And like her dad (another Markle ) - whined to a rag about wedding invitations. It would seem there is a behavioural trait somewhere.

Meghan's uncle, 78, says he was deeply hurt by being excluded from her wedding | Daily Mail Online

https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...royal-wedding-news-Markle-family-Prince-Harry

More close family are left off Meghan Markle's wedding guest list | Daily Mail Online

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/meghan-markles-family-still-dont-12364121

This daily attrition against the RF is unprecedented since the “war of the Wales’” Another Markle story trashing the RF only serves to bolster support for Meghan from a minority and clouds the view further for the majority in the UK. The other minority who are republican will milk this soap opera.

 

[Tarlita]

No friends

Oh, they haven't found the time yet. Most have gone bowling. Two simply had to attend an aunts 57th birthday festivities, lasting days - weeks actually. And the last one is nursing his neighbors sick canary.

Oh so that's what has happened. Well then - in that case ...

Thanks for the update Muhler. Knew i could always rely on you.?

 

[MaiaMia_53]

This daily attrition against the RF is unprecedented since the “war of the Wales’” Another Markle story trashing the RF only serves to bolster support for Meghan from a minority and clouds the view further for the majority in the UK. The other minority who are republican will milk this soap opera.

Well, the tabloids are definitely not in let-up mode. If possible, the tabs especially in conjunction with the age of the Internet, are even worse than during the 1980s and 1990s (particularly with completely made-up stories).

At some point, hopefully, the tabloids will be taken to task to stop aiding and abetting. Hopefully, the Markle uncle and the half-siblings will dry up with their whinging angles since no one in the royal family is ever going to respond to them.

Markle Snr is another story entirely, as Meghan's formerly loving father. I don't think Meghan will make any attempt to contact him while he continues to publicly whine and badger her via the tabloids. Perhaps if her father finally decides to shut up, maybe then an attempt might be made by Meghan to reconnect with him out of familial courtesy sometime down the road, but only under the condition that he never speak to the press ever again. If her father breaks confidence again, it's got to be over. In fact, with the latest Markle Snr diatribe, there's every reason to believe it's already over.

Meghan has been placed in an impossible situation by her father. As others have said in this thread, there's no way in the world that Meghan (and especially not Harry and the royals) should be blamed for somehow not having 'brought Markle Snr into the fold sooner.' We don't actually know anything about what measures Harry and Meghan took to maintain communication with Markle Snr during their courtship. Surely, he was offered an opportunity to meet Harry privately before the engagement was announced. I get the sense that Markle Snr refused their possible offers to bring him to London, or to visit with him secretly somewhere in private. Certainly, we do know that Harry and Meghan made every effort to include Markle Snr in the wedding. Apparently, he rebuffed their offers to bring him to London in advance of the wedding. From the things Markle Snr has said to the media, it appears that he may at some point have been trying to get Meghan to make up with her sister and to invite other Markle family members, which is clearly not something that should have been presented as a condition for his attendance, if indeed he made that proviso.

Surely Meghan has been disappointed by her father on a number of occasions, so she must have been particularly anxious about how he would ultimately respond in regard to attending the wedding. I believe Samantha eventually got her hooks into her father and influenced him to cooperate with the pap/tab photographer for the posed pics. And once Markle Snr lied to Prince Harry about that, it was the beginning of the end for any close relationship between Meghan and her father to be viable. He's being abusive in his dealings toward Meghan and the royals, and that can not be tolerated.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

Here are takes regarding Markle Snr by royal reporter Melanie Bromley on Access, and by Omid Mio Scobie on Good Morning America:

 

[jacqui24]

Is it strange or even odd that not One friend or acquaintance of Senior has spoken in defense of him on TMZ or twitter or whatever. Where are his supporters? Saying what a great guy he is? There are none willing to speak out it appears.
Possibly says it all hey. Surely there should be someone who knows him well to say publicly, "Hey this is a great guy!". The silence is deafening.
Or i could be wrong and people don't do those things these days.

That’s actually not true. Some have, most prominently Nancy Lee Grahn, who is a long time actress on GH. She didn’t actually realize Meghan and Tom’s connection until a few days before the wedding. And posted it about it. Meghan’s teachers did also speak highly of him based on the time he spent volunteering while Meghan was there. Which is why I believe this is might not be an evil man, but very foolish and is easily convinced by whoever he feels is on his side.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

Do you mean 'on his sad side.' ?

ETA:
Okay, I see you made the correction...

 

[Fros]

But a man is able to be foolish but not cruel. If he was just babbler nonsense that's different but we've heard him say thing that are just plain abusive.

It's important to note that even from Meghan's words that there are some redeeming qualities about him and he had his good moments growing up like most people but when comes down to it he's shown he is willing to throw his daughter, her new family and his ex-wife under the bus to help bolster his image that's more important to him above his daughter's well being and happiness.

Let's not baby and coddle this fully grown man.

 

[jacqui24]

Do you mean 'on his sad side.' ?

Just whoever is on his side.

But a man is able to be foolish but not cruel. If he was just babbler nonsense that's different but we've heard him say thing that are just plain abusive.

It's important to note that even from Meghan's words that there are some redeeming qualities about him and he had his good moments growing up like most people he probably but when comes down to it he's shown he is willing to throw his daughter, her new family and his ex-wife under the bus to help bolster his image that's more important to him above his daughter's well being and happiness.

Let's not baby and coddle this fully grown man.

I’ve never babied or coddled him or any of his actions. In fact, I’m be always held him responsible for his actions and not blame it on any peripherals like Samantha as some here have done. Yes, she might be manipulative, but he chose to be manipulated and go with her way of handling things. OTOH, the statement about him that I quoted wasn’t true. And my opinion remains that this is a man that has a fragile ego and foolish. I didn’t say what he did was not abuse. The intention is irrelevant in abuse cases, it’s the action.

 

[Zaira]

That’s actually not true. Some have, most prominently Nancy Lee Grahn, who is a long time actress on GH. She didn’t actually realize Meghan and Tom’s connection until a few days before the wedding. And posted it about it. Meghan’s teachers did also speak highly of him based on the time he spent volunteering while Meghan was there. Which is why I believe this is might not be an evil man, but very foolish and is easily convinced by whoever he feels is on his side.

I do not think he is evil per se, but I do not believe he is simply foolish either. IMO, he has moved into the malicious category and I have long believed, since the TMZ shenanigans, his actions are intentional with a full awareness of how they hurt Meghan---and I think that is the rub. He knows he is hurting his daughter both personally and in the eyes of the public and that gives him the power I think he craves over his newly high and mighty daughter.

A simply foolish person would not be saying the things he has been saying about Meghan and Harry or using the dog whistles he has against Meghan AND Doria.

No, Tom Sr has well moved beyond the point where he is simply a foolish man easily led astray. Perhaps if things had stopped at the staged pap pictures that label would be apt. But he has since shown an intentionality and cruelty that IMO implies more. He may well have been a decent father at times. Meghan seems to have valued his love and contributions, but I also do not think his actions of late are an anomaly.

 

[jacqui24]

I would say I didn’t find his actions before the GMB or even the GMB interview to be malicious. Selfish definitely. I did feel that the way he was viewed seemed overtly important to him when you consider that his daughter is getting married and starting a new life where she’s scrutinized for everything from head to toe. It was after that when he realized he’s only messed up more and made the situation far worse for himself with his daughter that he started lashing out. Unfortunately, he’s the type that will not have boundaries when he is lashing out. I don’t think any of this is about Meghan for him, but himself and how he feels like he’s being treated versus how he feels like he should be treated. He keeps trying to get a reaction from them and want them to grovel to him, but he definitely fails at thinking about things from another’s perspective in getting what he wants.

 

[ACO]

I think ignoring Meghan's calls days before her wedding and only talking through TMZ was quite cruel. He turned the week leading up to one of the most important day of her life into a saga all about him. It didn't just start with GMB.

Thomas has his defenders but almost all of them are from decades ago when she was a school girl. A lot can change in the course of years and the Markles themselves have admitted that Thomas and Meghan's relationship shifted when she went off to college. We even have a video clip of her confirming it.

Meghan loves her dad but it is pretty clear their relationship has been shaky for years.

 

[Osipi]

Tom, Sr. is like all the rest of us on this planet. We have good points and we have faults and we sometimes even get so confused that we don't know which way to turn and make mistakes. We're human.

We're also held responsible for our own actions. Tom, Sr., after the paid photos to "improve his image" turned out to be a disastrous blunder, instead of leaving it be, kept trying to "fix" it and with the tabloids egging him on gleefully, he tried different tactics to "set the record straight" but in doing so, was so focused on himself, his image, what he wants and how he feels he should be perceived, his daughter became secondary in the narrative. I think that he honestly believes that what the tabloids print can and do come to Meghan's attention and that he is trying to push a response from her. Perhaps, in his own way, pleading with her to "fix" things. Get her to the point where she feels she has to "handle and take care of Daddy". He maybe doesn't fully realize the position he's now putting Meghan into. He admitted that Harry was right saying "the press will eat you up and it will end in tears" but didn't heed that advice. Either way, he's being crude, rude, abusive emotionally and mentally towards Meghan while his "image" to the world is that he's graduated from the college of village idiots.

It didn't help that he has two children that actually enjoy all of this, has been proven to have been manipulated by Samantha towards her own agenda in all this and doesn't see that those two children are playing him like a fiddle.

With everything that has gone down so far, I would be very much surprised if there ever was a happily ever after for any of the Markles. They've all made their decisions to involve the less than reputable media and they'll reap what they've sown. To make matters worse, their "target" will be in the news and photographs abound of what she's doing with her life. Without them. Without looking back and being focused on what lies ahead and getting on with a happy family around her that she loves and respects and a good support system. That's going to sting.

 

[AlowVera]

I think ignoring Meghan's calls days before her wedding and only talking through TMZ was quite cruel. He turned the week leading up to one of the most important day of her life into a saga all about him. It didn't just start with GMB.

Thomas has his defenders but almost all of them are from decades ago when she was a school girl. A lot can change in the course of years and the Markles themselves have admitted that Thomas and Meghan's relationship shifted when she went off to college. We even have a video clip of her confirming it.

Meghan loves her dad but it is pretty clear their relationship has been shaky for years.

One thing that could explain the family dynamic is that often in families with a narcissistic parent the children are assigned roles. One child is designated as the trophy child and Sr. saying the words "I made you" points to him seeing her as an object he created. The trophy child's role is to enhance the parent, so when that child exerts their independence and breaks free of that role is when all the drama occurs. This is an interesting article about the family roles: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-me-in-we/201203/when-narcissist-heads-the-household

This quote is interesting and pertains to the invasions of privacy and ignoring boundaries:

"Invasions of privacy, boundary violations, and direct attacks on others are the norm"

 

[Marlo]

Last night, someone tweeted, "#TheStoryOfTheRoyals Funny how Meghan's mom took all the racist and ghetto comments and let it be.. Thomas got called fat and he had to run to the media to stage pictures and defend himself.."

So true.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1032819284135870464

 

[ACO]

One thing that could explain the family dynamic is that often in families with a narcissistic parent the children are assigned roles. One child is designated as the trophy child and Sr. saying the words "I made you" points to him seeing her as an object he created. The trophy child's role is to enhance the parent, so when that child exerts their independence and breaks free of that role is when all the drama occurs. This is an interesting article about the family roles: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-me-in-we/201203/when-narcissist-heads-the-household

This quote is interesting and pertains to the invasions of privacy and ignoring boundaries:

"Invasions of privacy, boundary violations, and direct attacks on others are the norm"

I do think a lot of what you saw does relate to Meghan and Thomas. Too many people have mentioned that her leaving for college was the start of whatever dynamic change happened in their relationship.

In his recent interview we had Tom Jr going on and on about how his dad didn't take it well when Meghan started being more independent. He, of course, blamed this on Meghan but it highlighted their issue. Thomas had an unhealthy relationship with his daughter. He clearly ignored his other kids and gave Meghan ALL of his attention. It is the root of their bitterness and resentment.

Thomas was proud that she was in the business like him. He almost gloated when he talked about how she picked her career over her marriage ("she is just like me!") because they still had that connection even they weren't necessarily as close anymore. Meghan giving almost everything up for Harry must have been a shock to his system. And now that she is not caving to his demands is making him angry. He is not the most important man in her life.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Thomas was proud that she was in the business like him. He almost gloated when he talked about how she picked her career over her marriage ("she is just like me!") because they still had that connection even they weren't necessarily as close anymore. Meghan giving almost everything up for Harry must have been a shock to his system. And now that she is not caving to his demands is making him angry. He is not the most important man in her life.

I was thinking on somewhat similar lines. I think Tom Sr understood Meghan's life as an actress since he had worked in the business. But when Meghan changed her life so much it must have been bewildering to him.
I'm not saying that gave him carte blanche to lash out.

 

[Princess of Durham]

responding to ACO
I think you are spot on, especially that last line of your post.

 

[jacqui24]

I was thinking on somewhat similar lines. I think Tom Sr understood Meghan's life as an actress since he had worked in the business. But when Meghan changed her life so much it must have been bewildering to him.
I'm not saying that gave him carte blanche to lash out.

I don't think any of us would fault him for being bewildered by it. I mean, I think no matter how much research anyone does. That reality would still bewilder them.

It's the way that he acted as a response.

 

[Zaira]

I do think a lot of what you saw does relate to Meghan and Thomas. Too many people have mentioned that her leaving for college was the start of whatever dynamic change happened in their relationship.

In his recent interview we had Tom Jr going on and on about how his dad didn't take it well when Meghan started being more independent. He, of course, blamed this on Meghan but it highlighted their issue. Thomas had an unhealthy relationship with his daughter. He clearly ignored his other kids and gave Meghan ALL of his attention. It is the root of their bitterness and resentment.

Thomas was proud that she was in the business like him. He almost gloated when he talked about how she picked her career over her marriage ("she is just like me!") because they still had that connection even they weren't necessarily as close anymore. Meghan giving almost everything up for Harry must have been a shock to his system. And now that she is not caving to his demands is making him angry. He is not the most important man in her life.

Yup. I've been saying the same thing for months.

 

[Fros]

He is not the most important man in her life.

I think this is the core of the problem. We've talked about how Tom Sr.'s attacks have been particularly targeted at Harry before. He goes from calling Harry a nice guy to insulting his mother and then when asked how Tom about it he said he doesn't care if he never meets Harry.

It's also interesting that according to Tom he is still in contact with Trevor Meghan's first husband. If this is true that means Tom never felt his place as the top man in Meghan's life was altered by her marriage to Trevor. He never saw Trevor as a threat

It's very much Harry and the place he has as the top man in Meghan's life which Tom feels ownership over and considers rightfully his.

This taking into account while these feelings are normal they should have been worked out while Meghan was in her 20's and around the time of her 1st wedding. It's unhealthy to still have these feeling and dynamic between a 37 year old daughter and a 74 year old father.

 

[AlowVera]

No normal parent behaves the way Sr. has treated his daughter.

No Contact is one way to deal with a highly toxic parent. His behavior is harmful to not only Meghan, her mother, her husband and her future children.

I find it highly disturbing that anyone in the media is trying to manipulate a child to have contact with a person who has verbally abused his child.

Meghan is not at fault and nor is she the blame for an adult man's misbehavior.

Kensington Palace is not at fault for a grown man's behavior, handling him is not in their skill set.

They need a professional therapist, counselor who can deal with his behavior.

 

[duchessrachel]

I do think a lot of what you saw does relate to Meghan and Thomas. Too many people have mentioned that her leaving for college was the start of whatever dynamic change happened in their relationship.

In his recent interview we had Tom Jr going on and on about how his dad didn't take it well when Meghan started being more independent. He, of course, blamed this on Meghan but it highlighted their issue. Thomas had an unhealthy relationship with his daughter. He clearly ignored his other kids and gave Meghan ALL of his attention. It is the root of their bitterness and resentment.

Thomas was proud that she was in the business like him. He almost gloated when he talked about how she picked her career over her marriage ("she is just like me!") because they still had that connection even they weren't necessarily as close anymore. Meghan giving almost everything up for Harry must have been a shock to his system. And now that she is not caving to his demands is making him angry. He is not the most important man in her life.

This exactly!

 

[Zaira]

I think this is the core of the problem. We've talked about how Tom Sr.'s attacks have been particularly targeted at Harry before. He goes from calling Harry a nice guy to insulting his mother and then when asked how Tom about it he said he doesn't care if he never meets Harry.

It's also interesting that according to Tom he is still in contact with Trevor Meghan's first husband. If this is true that means Tom never felt his place as the top man in Meghan's life was altered by her marriage to Trevor. He never saw Trevor as a threat

It's very much Harry and the place he has as the top man in Meghan's life which Tom feels ownership over and considers rightfully his.

This taking into account while these feelings are normal they should have been worked out while Meghan was in her 20's and around the time of her 1st wedding. It's unhealthy to still have these feeling and dynamic between a 37 year old daughter and a 74 year old father.

Wait, Tom claims he still talks to Trevor????

 

[Madame Verseau]

Dad is making up Trevor. It's a veiled threat that if Meghan doesn't talk to him he will spill details about the first marriage.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Dad is making up Trevor. It's a veiled threat that if Meghan doesn't talk to him he will spill details about the first marriage.

It seems like a particularly empty threat. I don't think he knows much.

 

[ACO]

Wait, Tom claims he still talks to Trevor????

I don’t know if he still does but in one of his interviews he mentioned talking to Trevor after Meghan filed for divorce. He basically said he told Trevor that Meghan needed to focus on her career right now. The whole thing came across like he didn’t take Trevor all that seriously. I agree with whoever upthead said that Thomas never felt threatened by Trevor or his position in Meghan’s life. That is clearly not the case with Harry.

 

[Zaira]

I don’t know if he still does but in one of his interviews he mentioned talking to Trevor after Meghan filed for divorce. He basically said he told Trevor that Meghan needed to focus on her career right now. The whole thing came across like he didn’t take Trevor all that seriously. I agree with whoever upthead said that Thomas never felt threatened by Trevor or his position in Meghan’s life. That is clearly not the case with Harry.

Hmm interesting. Than again, to your earlier point, Trevor moved in a world that Tom had connects to and understood---Hollywood. That probably made dear Trevor more relatable to Tom.

Harry very much does not move in any circle Tom would feel any power in.

 

[Madame Verseau]

It's starting to sound creepy about Dad, jealous about the men in her life. Trevor it seems wasn't a threat to Dad because Trevor is no power player in Hollywood, not on George Clooney's level. Dad saw Trevor as an "equal", a man that can't really overshadow him in Hollywood's pecking order and Trevor is not a big name. Harry is another story - a prince of the United Kingdom, son of an iconic mother, famous in his right. Dad has to compete with a father in law who is a future king of England for Meghan's attention. That's why he drags the BRF; to remind the world the royals are not perfect. Dad in his mind look small by comparison; despite having won Emmys he is not a household name. He is now for the wrong reasons. Dad resents the fact the royals are still thought of highly despite its family scandals. The Windsors had and had some good moments which offset the bad. Sr, Jr and Sam's attacks are the main reason the Markle name is in the gutter.

 

[alvinking]

I have been reading and intervening from time to time, but i am honestly flabbergasted by those who are trying to explain, justify, rationalize, understand, these behaviors and whatnot as if it is normal and should be accepted. I mean come on.

If it were Doria's side of her family that acted that way, we all know how they would have been torn down in the press and even here. Even long before the official engagement we had a sneak preview of the path they were about to go down of. Veiled vile innuendos with racial undertones. The almost Straight out of Compton and Crenshaw References in the DM for instance. I was so bad that Harry had to issue a communiqué about it. Even on wedding some criticized her hairs (dreadlocks) and her small gold nose ring.

I for one am very happy that all the drama is not from her side of the family, because we all know how hell would have broken loose.

Full disclosure, I am of african descent and although i am sad that Harry and Meghan have to deal with these psycho and this mess, i am sitting back, relaxing, enjoying the show. These people are unredeemable.

 

[Lady Reem]

Common sense right here. Thank you!

Also, basic good manners, dignity and decency cost nothing.

And you don’t have to be a member of Mensa International to understand that abusing your child just isn’t right.

It’s a wonder how the foreign relatives of other ‘BRF married-ins’ somehow manage to survive without behaving like grasping desperados with no concept of self-respect.

I mean - look at the Ragland side of the family. They aren't behaving this way - even the ones who weren't invited and haven't been given an "in". Yes, there were rumors that they were there, but we don't know that they were there.

Plus - Sr WAS invited! He was supposed to walk her down the aisle.

It's just amazing to me the excuses being made for Thomas Sr and his abusive actions. The moment he practically called his own daughter "uppity" (I'm paraphrasing) and came for Doria is the moment I wrote him off as an abusive malignant narcissist.

At this point, let's say Meghan wasn't ready to write him off completely. She might be okay with him smearing her - so she might be okay with trying to talk to him and explain why his actions have put her in a difficult spot and WHY he needs to just stop talking to the press - but even with that, she cannot trust that he won't repeat everything she's said.

Also - once they have kids? I don't know how they could manage that and not have him exploit it. He's proven himself to be so untrustworthy and to have very poor judgment where Samantha is concerned. He wouldn't be allowed to see those kids with any media on him (no phone or camera) and he'd probably only get pics once they decide to release the pics to the press and he'd never be allowed to be alone with them because they couldn't trust him not to involve Sam or Tom Jr.

God what a mess.

I'm amazed at the paternal side of that family and the hot mess there. And really impressed with the class, dignity and discretion of the Ragland/Johnson klan.

Vice Admiral Timothy Laurence, husband of Princess Anne
What is the name of his father? What is the name of his mother?Does he has siblings? What are the name? Do they have children? What are their names?
What do all they people do in life?

Sophie Rhys-Jones, Wife of Prince Edward, same questions

and I can ask the same questions for Birgitte van Deurs, Katharine Worsley, Marie Christine von Reibnitz, Angus Ogilvy, Mark Philips, Autumn Kelly, Michael Tindall.

Even for exposed personalities like Philip Mountbatten, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, Diana Spencer, Sarah Ferguson, Camilla Parker Bowles, very few people could answer these questions

My point is families of in laws are not all over the press and these people who are married in the BRF are not bending over backward to accommodate their irrational whims of celebrity

Exactly! Plus other paternal in-laws to the royals were not/are not babysat by the royals, nor do they request to be. Doria’s side don’t behave like self-entitled nasties either.

Imagine if these people who we never really hear of, sat on their backsides waging a one sided war with the royals, like certain members of that other family who feel entitled to something?

What is happening to the Royals is harassment and bullying on a massive scale.