The Duchess of Sussex: Family and Background

[M. Payton]

I don't need to know anything about who is a member of what church, I read the article and thought is was silly so that is where my comment came from.....membership in both churches, one church as 1 member and another church as thousands.......and my comment was a comeback to the article that was posted here.....why the outrage over my comment please? Seems to be the day posters here are jumping down everyone's throat for some reason or other.........maybe some need a strong drink of whatever....

 

[Somebody]

I couldn't or wouldn't speculate on a marriage that ended over 30 years ago but I do agree that a person characteristics pretty much don't change over time. We have no concrete reason why Tom, Sr. and Doria split up and that's best left in the ancient history folder that belongs to them and them alone but the fact that there was a divorce when Meghan was quite small still shows that she grew up in a split family to begin with. There was Mom's house and there was Dad's house and sometimes Mom and Dad with Meghan. They've done something right in order for Meghan to have turned out to be the self assured, intelligent and independent woman that we see now. William and Harry also grew up in a split environment and they most assuredly turned out to be healthy adults..

Well, Harry didn't exactly turn out to be a healthy adult. Only after therapy he turned from a very unstable young adult into a grounded man.

 

[jacqui24]

Well, Harry didn't exactly turn out to be a healthy adult. Only after therapy he turned from a very unstable young adult into a grounded man.

I would say overcoming adversity and becoming a healthy person is very much turning into a healthy adult. In many cases, that's actually the healthier way rather than someone who didn't go through much hardship early on and couldn't handle it when it comes at them as adults. He had a problem and he dealt with it. He clearly is in a much better place and uses that to help others. About as healthy as an adult can get.

 

[Osipi]

From what I've read, the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church of American had at the most, at one time, around 40 people with Bishop Markle as pastor. There is more information on the church itself in the link that Dalraida has posted up thread a little bit.

Its a legitimate church registered with the State of Florida albeit not overly big on congregation.

 

[jacqui24]

Thanks a lot for the info about it being the same photo agency that took the laundry pictures.


Thomas Markle did not start making comments until after the story ran exposing that he was in on staging the photos. Obviously he was a troubled person all along but the "investigative report" exposing his cooperation with the photo agency seems to have been a trigger that sparked the crazy he started exhibiting a few days before the wedding.

Yea. I think embarrassment and really the need to justify it to himself is a dangerous combination. He started making excuses for it and paint himself as the biggest victim in all of this. And when that didn't seem to work in the headlines and his daughter got justifiably pissed, he started lashing out. This ultimately is all about himself for Tom without any consideration what kind of place his tantrum has put his daughter.

Yes the story ran with much more detail in July while Meghan was on her first official overseas trip in Ireland:

Meghan Markle's uncle is a bishop with his own church like the Queen Meghan Markle's uncle is a bishop with his own church | Daily Mail Online

Actually, I believe the original story ran before they were even engaged, and it only got rehashed when Tom Markle brought it up again. He just doesn't understand let sleeping dogs lay, among other things in life.

I am far from a Thomas Markle apologist but IIRC it was said that he got sucked into doing the set up photos because he was told that if he did not cooperate then photos would be taken regardless and the photos taken without cooperation would not be flattering.

Well, it wasn't flattering when he cooperated either.

 

[ACO]

I don't care what this man does or does not do with his church. The Daily Mail is stalking these people who have literally done nothing. They are clearly trying to bait a reaction out of them and I hope they see what the others have done and don't fall for it.

I think his ex wife spoke to the press and said they hadn't seen Meghan in 20 years. This uncle hasn't spoken at all from what I gathered. Leave them alone.

 

[Somebody]

I would say overcoming adversity and becoming a healthy person is very much turning into a healthy adult. In many cases, that's actually the healthier way rather than someone who didn't go through much hardship early on and couldn't handle it when it comes at them as adults. He had a problem and he dealt with it. He clearly is in a much better place and uses that to help others. About as healthy as an adult can get.

The post was about William and Harry growing up in a split household and how that did not hinder them to become healthy adults. I don't share that idea. They indeed overcame it but I don't think it is because of the environment his parents created that he ended up being a healthy adult. The environmemt he grew up in was rather toxic at times and of course his mother's tragic death combined with the difficult relationship she had with his paternal family made growing up extremely difficult resulting in a very trouble adulthood for at least his first decade as an adult. Luckily he had a brother who was able to convince him to seek help.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

The post was about William and Harry growing up in a split household and how that did not hinder them to become healthy adults. I don't share that idea. They indeed overcame it but I don't think it is because of the environment his parents created that he ended up being a healthy adult. The environmemt he grew up in was rather toxic at times and of course his mother's tragic death combined with the difficult relationship she had with his paternal family made growing up extremely difficult resulting in a very trouble adulthood for at least his first decade as an adult. Luckily he had a brother who was able to convince him to seek help.

Elaboration on this is for another thread. However, I do believe that Meghan and Harry did connect very deeply, not only over their passion for using their success in life to help others, but also they apparently found emotional and psychological similiarities over having survived parental divorce with their heads on straight.

Much of Harry's youthful escapades and anguish I believe was due to having lost his mother in such an overwhelmingly tragic and public way at the tender age of 12. I think Harry would have been much more settled in his twenties if he'd had his mother around for guidance and emotional support, particularly in dealing with the 24/7 tabloid media (an entity that Harry & William largely blame for their mother's untimely death). Harry's personality is very much like his mother's and he felt her loss in a way that seemingly made him much more angry and rebellious than William exhibited, because William's personality is different and he was also kept busy being groomed for future kingship.

I do not think we really know enough to make a definitive judgment about exactly how his parents' divorce impacted Harry in terms of 'toxicity.' I sense that both William and Harry were protected by the many adults in their lives who helped lessen the traumatic impact of the dramatic goings-on. William and Harry had a very privileged upbringing with numerous distractions, pursuits, and royal family traditions available to them, as well as the seminal grounding, provided by their mother, in what life was like for ordinary, less advantaged people. I also think that Diana and Charles, despite their differences with each other, were largely on the same page regarding nurturing their sons and trying not to poison their sons' minds against the other parent. William and Harry seem remarkably loving and forgiving toward both of their parents, at least publicly. Clearly Meghan has been very loving in her public attitude toward both her parents as well, which makes her father's ridiculous public outbursts and betrayals all the more hurtful and embarrassing.

Well, Harry didn't exactly turn out to be a healthy adult. Only after therapy he turned from a very unstable young adult into a grounded man.

It was also Prince Harry's stints in the military, and his time spent in Africa, making friends there and starting the charity, Sentebale, which settled him down and gave him a fresh perspective. He began to find purpose in using his privileged status to give back to others, and in the process furthering and honoring his mother's legacy. Harry's mentor and friend (second father) Mark Dyer, has also been an important guiding and settling influence.

 

[Lady Reem]

It was the same photo agency that took the first pictures of Doria at the laundry mat after the engagement announcement and once again called into question her living conditions.

It's what they do. They take unflattering pictures, run bad stories calling their homes squalor and the offer a deal to fix up their image.

Tom was the only person who fell for it. Unfortunately for him along with trying to "fix his image" also included saying terrible things about his daughter and her new family.

The difference is after a little while they leave you alone if they get no response and then the palace steps in with letters and IpSo complaints about not distributing the pictures.

The difference with Tom Sr. is everyone in the industry knew he was collaborating with the photographer to fix his image so they continued to publish both the unflattering pics and the staged pics of him because the more unflattering pics they published the more staged pics he would do. It's an endless cycle and that's why it's best not to engage.

BiB: Given Thomas Markle’s denigrating comments to a tabloid about Meghan’s mum, I’m beginning to wonder....

Still, there had been unfair coverage and very unkind commentary about Meghan’s mum in a certain tabloid newspaper particularly at the start, when H&M’s relationship first came to light. And when the photos & footage of Doria at the laundry /laundromat appeared in online tabloids there were more unkind comments, even on here. But we don’t ever hear her whining about it or staging scam shots as some form of so-called justification, do we!?

As far as I can tell, up until the MoS exposure of his ‘staged photos’ the general consensus of the media towards Thomas Markle was good-natured and one of good will. And when one tabloid had its ‘very friendly exclusive scoop’ of Thomas Markles and his whereabouts late last year, not long after the royal engagement announcement, the rag had its very own reporter right on cue shaking hands with Markle and handing over some congratulatory gifts ‘to toast the couple’ ? Friendly photo...? https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/meghan-markle-dad-wedding-harry-11658082

Even now, the U.K. media are still sympathetic towards him despite everything that’s gone on.

 

[Somebody]

I fully agree

(I do think his parents' intentions were good, some choices they made however went completely against those good intentions and still were harmful imo).

 

[Lady Reem]

Well, it wasn't flattering when he cooperated either.

No it wasn’t, I agree.

Obviously he was trying to portray a certain image. Perhaps not quite the imagery of being left abandoned & destitute (which his much older other offspring love to scream their heads off about ) ...

I dunno, but to me there was just something rather off about the measurements photos inside some shabby shop by some dusty roadside and having to go to an Internet cafe to search & gaze forlornly at the couple.

And how does wearing the same clothes over & over make for flattering pictures? Just my thoughts, of course.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

I fully agree

(I do think his parents' intentions were good, some choices they made however went completely against those good intentions and still were harmful imo).

You must be responding to my previous post. We should take the Harry discussion to whichever appropriate thread though. I'd love to know what choices you feel were harmful that were made by Harry's parents in his upbringing. If you are referring to their difficult relationship -- I don't think that was a choice, once they were already in the marriage. Should we move this to Charles & Diana thread...

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Exactly! Plus other paternal in-laws to the royals were not/are not babysat by the royals, nor do they request to be. Doria’s side don’t behave like self-entitled nasties either.

Imagine if these people who we never really hear of, sat on their backsides waging a one sided war with the royals, like certain members of that other family who feel entitled to something?

What is happening to the Royals is harassment and bullying on a massive scale.

I think Doria did get some help learning about the BRF and Meghan's new life, same as they offered Tom Sr--but she didn't refuse the information like he did. There's a difference between that and "baby-sitting."

BTW, I'm beginning to wonder if he refused help because he never really intended to go to the wedding.

Even though the ins and outs of the Royal Family would be a little foreign to the average British citizen like Sophie Wessex's parents at least they grew up knowing a bit more than the average US citizen.

Those few Markles are an entity unto themselves.

 

[FashionMaven]

I've been following this drama from a distance and all I can say is that if my father was behaving the way Thomas Markle Sr has behaved, I would be completely destroyed.

Meghan is in a catch-22. Tom Sr is acting out badly and needs a talking to, but she can't really respond for fear of getting more abuse from him running to the press for a tell-all. The BRF cannot trust him - his judgment is horribly poor. And given how he trashes them and Meghan when he feels ignored or whatever, he doesn't deserve a response.

I keep wondering WHY the media is giving him a platform for abuse. I keep wondering why they give Sam the same platform when she doesn't know Meghan at all. The media is an accomplice to mental, emotional and verbal abuse.

It's not right.

Meghan has done nothing wrong and I find it horrible when it's suggested that she somehow caused this by not caving in to people who clearly hate her.

She deserves better.

 

[jacqui24]

Honestly, I don't know how you don't understand the overview of the BRF does if you spend a few hours on Google. And beyond the overview, do they need to know anything? Dealing with media is a different story, and it seemed that Harry and Meghan and their aides made very clear on WHY speaking to the press is a bad idea. I don't even think HM would care if they didn't curtsy. Just behave like a normal person.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Honestly, I don't know how you don't understand the overview of the BRF does if you spend a few hours on Google. And beyond the overview, do they need to know anything? Dealing with media is a different story, and it seemed that Harry and Meghan and their aides made very clear on WHY speaking to the press is a bad idea. I don't even think HM would care if they didn't curtsy. Just behave like a normal person.

That seems like a lot of work, when someone could just give you the information and you are assured it is accurate. Also there is a lot of chaff mixed in with the grain on Google. It takes a bit to figure out which is which at times.

Many of us here have had an interest in royalty for a long time--we have a different perspective than most.

 

[MARG]

I think the Markles are tag teaming! Jnr has been extremely vocal about his demand that the BRF treat them the same way as they treat the Middletons. He is really bent out of shape that they were invited to the wedding and Meghan's own family were not.

He has obviously been researching the Middletons but has somehow missed that they are self-made and have always behaved in an exemplary manner when it comes to the BRF. Even their resident black sheep has never said a word out of place about the royals. He doesn't seem to understand that his own behaviour is rude, ignorant and offensive.

He seems to think that the term 'commoner' means poor and that the Middleton's wealth, home and lifestyle are all a result of Catherine having married into the royal family and being gifted a "royal life". Tom is demanding the 'same privilege' for Meghan's family.

At least this sort of idiot claim is getting the result it deserves.

 

[Lady Reem]

Honestly, I don't know how you don't understand the overview of the BRF does if you spend a few hours on Google. And beyond the overview, do they need to know anything? Dealing with media is a different story, and it seemed that Harry and Meghan and their aides made very clear on WHY speaking to the press is a bad idea. I don't even think HM would care if they didn't curtsy. Just behave like a normal person.

Common sense right here. Thank you!

Also, basic good manners, dignity and decency cost nothing.

And you don’t have to be a member of Mensa International to understand that abusing your child just isn’t right.

It’s a wonder how the foreign relatives of other ‘BRF married-ins’ somehow manage to survive without behaving like grasping desperados with no concept of self-respect.

 

[FashionMaven]

Common sense right here. Thank you!

Also, basic good manners, dignity and decency cost nothing.

And you don’t have to be a member of Mensa International to understand that abusing your child just isn’t right.

It’s a wonder how the foreign relatives of other ‘BRF married-ins’ somehow manage to survive without behaving like grasping desperados with no concept of self-respect.

I mean - look at the Ragland side of the family. They aren't behaving this way - even the ones who weren't invited and haven't been given an "in". Yes, there were rumors that they were there, but we don't know that they were there.

Plus - Sr WAS invited! He was supposed to walk her down the aisle.

It's just amazing to me the excuses being made for Thomas Sr and his abusive actions. The moment he practically called his own daughter "uppity" (I'm paraphrasing) and came for Doria is the moment I wrote him off as an abusive malignant narcissist.

At this point, let's say Meghan wasn't ready to write him off completely. She might be okay with him smearing her - so she might be okay with trying to talk to him and explain why his actions have put her in a difficult spot and WHY he needs to just stop talking to the press - but even with that, she cannot trust that he won't repeat everything she's said.

Also - once they have kids? I don't know how they could manage that and not have him exploit it. He's proven himself to be so untrustworthy and to have very poor judgment where Samantha is concerned. He wouldn't be allowed to see those kids with any media on him (no phone or camera) and he'd probably only get pics once they decide to release the pics to the press and he'd never be allowed to be alone with them because they couldn't trust him not to involve Sam or Tom Jr.

God what a mess.

I'm amazed at the paternal side of that family and the hot mess there. And really impressed with the class, dignity and discretion of the Ragland/Johnson klan.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I'm amazed at the paternal side of that family and the hot mess there. And really impressed with the class, dignity and discretion of the Ragland/Johnson klan.

Well, it really is Samantha and the two Toms. that are the real bad apples. We've heard almost nothing from Noel, nothing from Ashleigh and Christopher and just a bit from one uncle--nothing like the stuff her step-siblings and dad are spewing.

 

[jacqui24]

That seems like a lot of work, when someone could just give you the information and you are assured it is accurate. Also there is a lot of chaff mixed in with the grain on Google. It takes a bit to figure out which is which at times.

Many of us here have had an interest in royalty for a long time--we have a different perspective than most.

I was being generous by saying a few hours, I honestly think it’d be quicker than that. Plus, if your DAUGHTER is marrying into the institution, it’s not a lot of work. It’s different when it’s a complete stranger, obviously. But given that Doria seems to have a good grasp despite being American, support was provided. Maybe not down to every detail, but is that really necessary to get an overview?

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I was being generous by saying a few hours, I honestly think it’d be quicker than that. Plus, if your DAUGHTER is marrying into the institution, it’s not a lot of work. It’s different when it’s a complete stranger, obviously. But given that Doria seems to have a good grasp despite being American, support was provided. Maybe not down to every detail, but is that really necessary to get an overview?

Why are you arguing with me then?

I think Doria did get some help learning about the BRF and Meghan's new life, same as they offered Tom Sr--but she didn't refuse the information like he did.

 

[jacqui24]

Why are you arguing with me then?

My point was that, despite whatever help was offered or not offered or taken or not taken, it’s not that hard no matter what.

 

[MARG]

You know, I think it is just plain old hard work and good manners that make Doria who she is today. Her family's behaviour leads one to expect that was how she was raised and she raised her own daughter accordingly.

Yes, it seems that Snr wants to overlook the fact that he was invited and being an angina sufferer and having three stents myself, I have to wonder about the exact nature of the "heart attack" which he said Jnr had brought on by his open letter to Harry. While it is true that stress can impact the heart, his own behaviour then and now make me believe otherwise.

IMO he was too ashamed to show his face after getting caught dead to rights! I also think he totally underestimated the significance of Meghan marrying into the BRF and totally underestimate the UK itself, as shown by one of his nephews being caught with a knife by a bouncer when trying to enter a nightclub. His excuse was that President Trump said that London was a war zone.

 

[jacqui24]

You know, I think it is just plain old hard work and good manners that make Doria who she is today. Her family's behaviour leads one to expect that was how she was raised and she raised her own daughter accordingly.

Right. I mean at the end of day, whether a family is close or not isn’t about right or wrong. Sometimes it’s about personalities, sometimes it’s environmental conditions, and so on, but at the end of the day, this is about decency. You don’t have to be close to extend decency and not to behave like you are spoiled and entitled. Behaving in a vindictive manner isn’t about Meghan, but Samantha and the Toms. Sometimes family just aren’t that close, it’s not anything new or shocking. There was no need for the press to make a scandal that Meghan isn’t close to her much older half siblings, especially when it was known that they haven’t bothered to be in Meghan’s life for years until Harry came into the picture.

 

[M. Payton]

But then again when has Sr been thinking of Meghan's first or her happiness, this has all been about him, his ego ], his image, his place in history, his wanting to be treated like Trump, his wanting to met HM and so on.......does he even remember his daughter in all this .......do not think so!

 

[Lady Reem]

Well, it really is Samantha and the two Toms. that are the real bad apples. We've heard almost nothing from Noel, nothing from Ashleigh and Christopher and just a bit from one uncle--nothing like the stuff her step-siblings and dad are spewing.

But this isn’t about the Hale’s who were brought up by their dad and grandparents, a completely different family, IS IT ?!

And no it isn’t just about Sammy, Tommy or Pa Markle either. Or as you claim, just - “a bit from one uncle”. That Markle uncle has whined to the newspapers about wedding invitations on three separate occasions now (the latest rant just recently) so it is hardly “just a bit”... There appears to be a pattern of writing begging letters to the royal palaces from that paternal side, too. His daughter Thomas Markle Sr’ niece (like Tom Jr.) also sent a begging letter via the Palace to Prince Harry at one point. And like her dad (another Markle ) - whined to a rag about wedding invitations. It would seem there is a behavioural trait somewhere.

Meghan's uncle, 78, says he was deeply hurt by being excluded from her wedding | Daily Mail Online

https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...royal-wedding-news-Markle-family-Prince-Harry

More close family are left off Meghan Markle's wedding guest list | Daily Mail Online

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/meghan-markles-family-still-dont-12364121

Michael, a former US government worker who helped secure Meghan a college internship in Argentina, added: “I don’t know what the hell is going on.

“But someone has to get through and find out if Meghan is turning these letters away or what...

 

[MaiaMia_53]

@Lady Reem, I believe O-H Anglophile might be referring to Meghan's Uncle Joseph Johnson (her mother's older half-brother) who sold pictures and family information to the Daily Fail. Her Uncle Joseph at least had positive things to say, and he's said nothing else since that I'm aware of. He also waited until after the engagement announcement before speaking out -- perhaps he got more money by waiting till a marriage was ensured and interest was ratcheted up. He may also have not wanted to say anything sooner so as not to do anything that might be seen as harming his niece's relationship during the courtship stage. Uncle Joseph clearly indicated he didn't expect to be invited to the wedding.

The articles about the Markle uncle, who used to be a government worker, complaining peevishly about not being invited to the royal wedding, was discussed some pages earlier in this thread. He'd spoken out before too in the lead-up to the royal wedding.

At this point, I'm not sure how many brothers Tom Snr has. Is it two or three? In any case, it's been said that one of the brothers, apparently Michael Markle (the former government employee), revealed Tom Snr's Mexico location to the tabloids for money. I'm very skeptical that Meghan was ever close to anyone on the Markle side of the family, aside from being around Tom Jr's kids for a time when she was in her pre-teen and early teen years. There are pictures and videos of Meghan posing with her Dad and Tom Jr's sons when they were young. At some point, Tom Jr split with his wife and he also became estranged from his Dad.

I would imagine that things began to fray more-so in terms of close connections after Tom Sr's mother died. The fact that Michael Markle put in a word for Meghan in support of the diplomatic internship in Argentina does not mean he created her success in life, or that he in fact 'contributed so much to her life.' Meghan is very bright and she was accepted to attend one of the top universities in the U.S. By Michael having simply put in a word for Meghan to be considered for the college internship in Argentina wouldn't have meant much unless she was qualified and capable of performing the required duties, which she clearly was.

What Michael claims is nearly as bad as what Tom Snr has been whining about. Meghan's father did what any loving, responsible father should do in supporting and encouraging his daughter. But it's Meghan who worked hard, scrapping and going on auditions and interviews, and studying and practicing her lines, and never giving up when the going was tough. Meghan made her own success and she created her own career by applying herself, believing in herself, taking advantage of her opportunities, and being savvy about making connections and embracing her life head on with focused goals and positive energy.

The ongoing Markle dribble-drabble is tiresome and ridiculously transparent. They need to stop the shameless whining and putrid whinging. I'm not going to read the full DF rehashes. What's wrong with Tom Sr's relatives??? Why do they feel like Meghan even owes them the time of day! They are pitiful for stooping to write pleading, self-important letters in the first place. They do not own Meghan. They have no claims on her whatsoever. If they possessed common sense, they would have just sent her congratulations and gotten on with their lives, without even expecting to necessarily hear anything back from her! She's had no contact with any of them for years.

It seems to me that there was never any love lost between these Markles and Tom Snr's youngest daughter whose mother is African-American. I suspect that all of them looked down their noses at Meghan in the first place in a condescending way when she was growing up. It's the height of condescension in fact for any of them to suggest that someone needs to find out if Meghan is 'turning their letters away.' It's so foolish and beyond incredulity that they think the young girl they probably used to look down on, now needs to somehow include them in her new life with one of the most famous families in the world. The Markles have mind-boggling nerve.

 

[Tarlita]

Is it strange or even odd that not One friend or acquaintance of Senior has spoken in defense of him on TMZ or twitter or whatever. Where are his supporters? Saying what a great guy he is? There are none willing to speak out it appears.
Possibly says it all hey. Surely there should be someone who knows him well to say publicly, "Hey this is a great guy!". The silence is deafening.
Or i could be wrong and people don't do those things these days.

 

[Muhler]

Is it strange or even odd that not One friend or acquaintance of Senior has spoken in defense of him on TMZ or twitter or whatever. Where are his supporters? Saying what a great guy he is? There are none willing to speak out it appears.
Possibly says it all hey. Surely there should be someone who knows him well to say publicly, "Hey this is a great guy!". The silence is deafening.
Or i could be wrong and people don't do those things these days.

Oh, they haven't found the time yet. Most have gone bowling. Two simply had to attend an aunts 57th birthday festivities, lasting days - weeks actually. And the last one is nursing his neighbors sick canary.