Restoration of the Monarchy in Romania

[LadyRohan]

The eldest Princess should have never let her husband to announce his intention to become president of the republic.

It was a silly misstep, but in all fairness, this is history and I'm not sure it's something most people think about. But since the Crown Princess and Prince Radu have no children, it is more important to settle on an order of succession, and none of the other distractions will matter.
In the years that have passed since that mishap, I find that the Prince has worked quite hard to help his wife and father-in-law to improve the royal presence in Romania.

 

[LadyRohan]

And here comes the question; Who will be "tomorrow" the head of the royal family?
Margareta or Radu?

The head of the family, following the demise of the King, is H.R.H Crown Princess Romania. Prince Radu will continue to be the partner of his wife, a Prince Consort, such as Danish Prince Henrik and the Duke of Edinburgh.

 

[Cory]

The Head of the King's Family will be Princess Margareta and the Successor to the Throne Prince Karl of Hihenzollern.

 

[Cory]

Statement of ANRM after the IIIrd Congress regarding the porpose of the Association which is the restoration of Monarchy and the envolvement of the youth in this:



https://tineretanrm.wordpress.com/2...ngres-al-anrm-24-25-octombrie-2015-comunicat/

 

[eya]

Sorry but I did not see anything new in this Congress. They agreed the obvious to support the restoration of the monarchy in the country (it did before?) and that they will take part in the various anniversaries that will be organized (will not also they did?). Although of course the translation of google I used in the article was correct. (They had to make some reference to the events with Nikolae?)

 

[Cory]

They sent a Letter to the president of the republic asking for a change of the Parliament into an Assembly to restore the Monarchy.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

That is nice, but of course the President receives thousands of letters and his office will respond to these. Exactly like that letter in which an US citizen requested Queen ELizabeth II "to take back the USA" because of the poor level of presidential candidates (letter).

 

[Andy T]

The Head of the King's Family will be Princess Margareta and the Successor to the Throne Prince Karl of Hihenzollern.

No, Cory: the "Head" of the King's Family will be Princess Margareta and the "Head" of the Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen family will be Prince Karl of Hohenzollern. Who becomes the Sovereign in a new Constitutional Monarchy in Romania is entirely the decision of the Romanian people and the rules they determine to establish the line of succession will be found in the new constitution that they will have to adopt.

The 1923 Constitution (which didn't even include universal suffrage!) is dead: the only thing that's missing is the death certificate.

 

[Cory]

Princess Margareta will be the Head of her Family but won't ever be Successor to the Throne.
Prince Karl will be de iure Head of the Royal House of Hohenzollern in Romania but will reign only if the Romanians will restore Monarchy.

 

[Andy T]

Prince Karl will be de jure Head of the Royal House of Hohenzollern in Romania according to the 1923 constitution but that constitution will one day be legally abrogated - monarchy or no monarchy - and, as far as Romania is concerned, he will be just another de jure King to add to the European stockpile. France has a nice little collection of 3 - the Duke of Anjou, the Count of Paris and Charles Bonaparte. In real terms, that's all he is already.

Karl will reign in Romania if (a) a monarchy is re-established and (b) if the new constitution which re-establishes a monarchy makes him King.

 

[Cory]

Of course the restoration of Monarchy is the first step towards the new reign of the Hohenzollerns.

 

[Andy T]

Of course the restoration of Monarchy is the first step towards the new reign of the Hohenzollerns.

There will never be a 'new' reign of the Hohenzollerns in Romania.

 

[Cory]

How could you be so sure?

 

[LadyRohan]

How could you be so sure?

For the same reason you seem bent on ignoring the Romanian Royal Family after the King passes away, I would guess. The 1923-constitution is gone. It will never be revived, no constitution ever is. In 2009 Prince Karl said so himself. 'My family has no claims to, and will never claim, the Romanian throne'. If and when Romania is to become a monarchy again, it will be under a modern constitution, with equal primogeniture and a connection with the past monarchy, through its leader. The EU, the press, the population in general and women specifically will never allow otherwise, and the cost to the government will be too high in negative publicity.

Restoring a monarchy is not about the personal preferences of each individual who happens to write and talk about the issue. It's about realizing what can realistically be done, how can the process be taken forward and how can people be convinced. The way to do that is through tradition, continuation and emotion.

The Romanian Royal Family are the ones representing the monarchy in Romania. They have been since the 19th century. There is no role in the future of a Romanian kingdom for a foreign Princely family with no connection to, or interest in, a modern throne, and it is unhelpful to seek to undermine the RF, when the goal is to restore a throne.

Many on these forums have asked whether or not the Romanian Royal Family wants to see the throne restored. I would say that their work around the country, trying their best to play the parts they can in civic and social life, proves that they do, much more so than any German Royal or Princely house, who regularly dismiss in interviews, returning to the monarchy and being quite content with their lives.

When it comes to the members of the RRF, and how they sometimes seem to disagree on matters, I will only say that I have fewer siblings and more disagreements in my family, and we're not the ones trying to navigate a post-communist era in a country we weren't allowed to be born in or grow up in, where people don't really know us well and where the establishment and the media doesn't know exactly what to make of us.

I genuinely see them trying their best, and I wish that sometimes would be more appreciated and understood.

 

[Cory]

The Dynasty that built the Romanian state was the Hohenzollern House. The descendants of King Michael do not belong to that Dynasty by their own choice. The nowadays King does nor really have descendants to carry on his mission if we see who is still on that list proposed by him. The two grandaughters of the King are not known by the Romanian and do not belong to the Dynasty that built the country like Prince Karl.
The Restoration of Monarchy is not encouraged in any clear way by the descendants of the King.

Elisabeta Karina Medforth Mills and Elisabeta Biarneix are as foreigners as the Hohenzollerns but they have no titles.

 

[LadyRohan]

The Dynasty that built the Romanian state was the Hohenzollern House. The descendants of King Michael do not belong to that Dynasty by their own choice. The nowadays King does nor really have descendants to carry on his mission if we see who is still on that list proposed by him. The two grandaughters of the King are not known by the Romanian and do not belong to the Dynasty that built the country like Prince Karl.
The Restoration of Monarchy is not encouraged in any clear way by the descendants of the King.

The Bernadotte Family provided Sweden with a Royal Family in 1810. The Saxe-Coburg-Gothas formed the basis for the Windsor Royal Family. The Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderbürg-Glücksburgs provided Norway with a Royal Family in 1905.

None of these families will be asked to provide any of those countries with a new monarch again. Those days are gone. No foreign house will provide a European democracy with another king. Monarchies today live, and die, with their families and the movements in the population. When there is a Royal Family in a country, that is the basis upon which to try to re-establish an abolished institution.

To advocate for anything else, is just disconnected dreamery and will never happen.

From a large Royal Family, an heir can be found, and a dynasty can be reborn. What matters now, is to get the politicians and the population on the right side of the issue at hand.

It's time to focus on restoring the monarchy. That's where a stronger future for Romania can be found, and faith in its institutions and systems be rebuilt.

 

[LadyRohan]

Elisabeta Karina Medforth Mills and Elisabeta Biarneix are as foreigners as the Hohenzollerns but they have no titles.

Well, I don't believe they will be first in line of succession to the restored throne, I think I've written that 17 times now. They are however much closer to the country, as the grandchildren of its King. Princess Märtha of Norway is 4th in line for the Norwegian throne, and her children follow her. They have no titles, but are still as close as one can get in a small Royal Family to inheriting a throne.

The King could had given all his family titles when he made his wishes clear for an updated order of succession. The fact that he didn't, is a good thing, and allows politicians and the Royal Family to find a way forward, when the decision is made to present a royal future for the country.

 

[Cory]

If you do not know the Romanian realities at least read what the newspapers are saying about the descendants of the Romanian King who do not speak Romanian (or they speak it very little or not correctly) and you will understand better the situation.

 

[Cory]

A member of the Romanian Accademy says he could support the Monarchy but not with the descendants of the King:

R?zvan Theodorescu l-ar vrea pe... prin?ul Charles pe tronul României

 

[LadyRohan]

If you do not know the Romanian realities at least read what the newspapers are saying about the descendants of the Romanian King who do not speak Romanian (or they speak it very little or not correctly) and you will understand better the situation.

I appreciate the advice, but I can assure you I do follow Romanian news quite closely. I doubt I would have any strong interest in this topic otherwise.

 

[LadyRohan]

A member of the Romanian Accademy says he could support the Monarchy but not with the descendants of the King:

R?zvan Theodorescu l-ar vrea pe... prin?ul Charles pe tronul României

Yes, now that is for sure something to be taken seriously

 

[eya]

What I understand is that everyone is divided at this time on the succession in the country. They had found a great heir in the person of Nicolae and after the events of august really do not know what to argue anymore. The King was not clear as it should not for the reasons that dismiss Nicolae nor continuity the monarchy since the Margareta has no children. Maybe he currently not knowing what to do. Will see.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Maybe the King has simply decided that the Royal House of Romania will end with his daughters.

 

[Cory]

The rights to the Throne of this Family really ends with the King.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Yes, but of course King Michael's daughters are born Princesses of Romania and Princesses of the House Hohenzollern. This branch of the Hohenzollerns, named "Romania" will end with them. As there seem no successors, most likely this will at the same time mean the end of the Royal House of Romania.

Like in fact the Osman dynasty, former rulers of the Ottoman Empire, make no claim on the Ottoman (Turkish) throne. Like the Hohenzollerns seems not to make a claim on the Romanian throne, at present. Probably King Michael has understood that his dynasty will die out with him and that his grandson Nicholas better has to earn his own living and pursue an own career than chasing dreams (and he is right with that).

 

[Andy T]

The rights to the Throne of this Family really ends with the King.

Reality calling: there is no throne, so there are no "rights".

If the Romanian people decide to create a throne, they'll decide who will sit on it. End of.

 

[Cory]

There are the dynastic rights. There can't be any debate about the Restoration until the people will not know who will be the future Pretender.

 

[Benjamin]

In the event that there are dynastic rights, one of the Hohenzollerns still needs to convert to Orthodoxy to assume Headship of the Royal House, correct?

 

[Andy T]

There are the dynastic rights. There can't be any debate about the Restoration until the people will not know who will be the future Pretender.

There are two routes: establish the pretender (but who or what establishes the pretender?) and make it a choice about that person as monarch vs a republic (by definition impossible to know who will be a future president) or make it a choice between two systems and then, if a monarchy is selected, let the people freely choose their sovereign.

With route 1, you risk the supporters of other factions voting against a monarchy if they feel the chosen candidate is somehow unworthy or not 'legitimate' (in the legal sense rather than concerning the marital status of his/her parents). With route 2, you have to campaign on a more abstract level and risk opponents exploiting the in-fighting between monarchist factions.

If King Michael, the pretender today - according to both the 1923 Constitution and his own house rules - were restored while still alive, with an updated constitution approved by the Romanians to establish the succession rules, maybe peace could reign....maybe. However, this is clearly not going to happen.

 

[Cory]

It is a beautiful dream but I doubt the King will be restored on his Throne.