Herlufsholm Boarding & Day School - Incidents and Reactions of the Royal Family

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by Izzie

No...what i meant was why NOT have this type of documentary YEARS ago!! (...)

It's not that nothing has been published or broadcast about the school's culture until now. Almost 20 years ago, this scathing essay by a former student was published. There have been multiple documentaries made about the school that, although not as explosive as the current one, have revealed a questionable environment at the school. Additionally, the press has written about most of the rape and assault cases that have been reported to the police.

The problem is that nothing has been done about it. The school has sat out the storm and evidently no changes have been implemented, and somehow the horrifying stories havn't been able to maintain media attention. Why? Several points:

1. We live in a different time now. Say, in 2004, it had only been 7 years since it had been made illegal by law to physically punish children. I started my education in 2000 and in the beginning, I still had a teacher who found it appropriate to shut his students up by hurling his bundle of keys into the desks in front of them. That's just to say that even though corporal punishment had been made illegal, a vast amount of people in the early 00's still felt it was a legitimate way to reprimand children. This, I suspect, was also reflected in the media's attention some 20 years ago (I was a child then so this is a guess).

And the lack of attention to the subject between the early 00's and now? Well, Denmark is not a very progressive country. We still routinely have public debates about what constitute a no, so I don't think it's particularly surprising that people have turned a blind eye to what everyone knew was a toxic environment. In the last couple of years, Denmark has passed through the second wave of #MeToo where things have opened up slightly, and I think that does play a huge part in the timing of this documentary as well.

2. Herlufsholm is an extremely closed environment. What happens at Herlufsholm, stays at Herlufsholm. In return, Herlufsholm promises its students connections for life. That's part of the experience, that's part of what you pay for in admitting your child. But that also makes it extremely difficult to get people to speak out about what's happening because that's social suicide. Of recent students featured in the documentary, only two of many interviewees showed their faces. The rest were anonymised out of fear of repercussions. And as stupid as it sounds, it's just easier to garner attention when you can put a face on your allegations. That's media reception 101.

3. Well, the school prides itself on educating the elite. I don't think it's unjust to say there's lots of people in power out there with an incentive not to dig further into Herlufsholms problems. AFAIK the Minister of Education has actually attempted to abolish prefect systems recently but hasn't been succesful in getting it passed through parliament. I wonder why that is

_________

I simply do not understand your point about TV2's "convenient timing". I'm not denying that Christian's (and Isabella's coming) attendance has impacted the attention. But how is that a bad thing? Surely if anything, as Muhler mentions, the only good thing to come of this is that Christian's attendance brings a considerable public attention to the school's obscene culture. The documentary doesn't target the DRF in ways the DRF couldn't themselves have prevented by not opting for a school with a long-tarnished reputation for bullying, sexual abuse and violence.

[Muhler]

https://www.bt.dk/samfund/rektor-fyret-fra-herlufsholm

The headmaster at Herlufsholm has been fired.
Not even resigned, fired.

The chairman of the board, considered resigning, but it was agreed he should stay on. - However, the result of an investigation by a hired team of lawyers will decide whether there will be additional consequences. (I.e. whether the chairman and/or members of the board will resign as well.)
At the same time the board apologize to those who appeared in the docu and thanked them for stepping forward.

As late as Friday the headmaster said twice to the press that he was not to resign.

New changes will come into effect immediately:
The system with a prefect will be abolished. - So no pupils with special power and authority.
The tradition where all pupils sleep at dorms will be abolished. All pupils can now sleep in their own room. (They all have a room but sleep at the dorm.) To ensure that they can feel safe at night if need be.
A person with direct focus on well being at the school will be employed as a part of the leadership at the school.
A whistleblower system for the pupils will be introduced at the school.
Help is offered for present and former pupils who have felt abused at the school.
Traditions that can lead to physical or psychological abuse will be abolished. - That is traditions where it can too easily escalate into fist fights or beatings of younger and physically weaker pupils in particular.
The school will call in external help to change the culture at the school.

Very close friends of M&F, that were at Isabella's confirmation have gone out condemning bullying at the school. Even though they emphasize that they themselves nor their children have personally experienced bullying.

The close circle of friends around M&F have close ties to Herlufsholm.

https://www.bt.dk/royale/kongehuset-...idder-i-saksen
Bendt and Pernille Wedell.
Caroline Fleming. And her son Alexander.
Caroline and Peter Heering.
Nina Wedell-Wedellsborg and her son Thomas.
Otto Reedtz-Thott, who is married to Helle Reedtz-Thott. They have three children who attend Herlufsholm.
Christian Levin.
Christian Ahlefeldt-Laurvig. His wife Mette Ahlefeldt-Laurvig, is sister to Anna von Lowzows, whose husband, Klaus von Lowzow's cousin Torben von Lowzow, is chairman of the board at Herlufsholm.
Malou Skeel, who has a son there. That son, Holger, is a close childhood friend of Christian. Malou Skeel is a member of the PTA at the school and she is also a member of the board.

- If you study the scans from Isabella's confirmation that I will post later this weekend, you'll see these names and faces among the guests.

There are a lot of commentators saying a lot of nonsense these days. One suggested that M&F would be hesitant in denouncing Herlufsholm, because they would risk losing a number of close friends. That's nonsense.
Their friends are not going to turn their backs to M&F over a school. If anything they probably have glowing red ears for talking Herlufshom up to M&F - and Christian and Isabella.

Denmark is a small country, the elite is small as well and most know each other. The DRF is the top dog in that hierarchy. If the DRF turn their backs on someone, they are out in the cold. The friends of the DRF will also turn their backs - or risk being out as well. (It is well known that Frederik has and will cut out people who betray his trust.)
It's the equivalent to being stripped of a title (that happened to a friend of PH, he is now broken and basically in exile) or a company losing the coveted title of Purveyor to the Royal Danish Court. In a circle that very much relies on mutual trust and integrity that's bad!
Also, because there are plenty who will be more than happy to step in and replace those who are outed.

[Izzie]

Well that was fast!

Would/Should The Mary Foundation be involved in any way or just steer clear? Would they even make themselves available to the school or even the students? It might be in the best interest of the foundation to do something because their reputation could be in the line. If that makes sense.

And how quick can these changes realistically take effect? Does Christian stay? Will his presence there be enough motivation for the school to get their act together and fast? Do they keep Isabella out and have her complete her last year where she currently is? That would solve that issue. Lots of questions.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Izzie

Well that was fast!

Would/Should The Mary Foundation be involved in any way or just steer clear? Would they even make themselves available to the school or even the students? (1) It might be in the best interest of the foundation to do something because their reputation could be in the line. If that makes sense.

And how quick can these changes realistically take effect? (2) Does Christian stay? (3) Will his presence there be enough motivation for the school to get their act together and fast? (4) Do they keep Isabella out and have her complete her last year where she currently is? (5) That would solve that issue. Lots of questions.

To the extent that I can answer the questions, I have allowed myself to add numbers to your post.

(1) I think the Mary Foundation will stay clear. Both because Mary is so personally involved and because it really isn't something the Mary Foundation should involve itself with. Herlufsholm can implement the initiatives formulated by the Mary Foundation, but that's up to the school. The school being privately owned.

(2) Right away.

(3) In all likelihood yes, Unless there is a new scandal, that is attempted to be covered up

(4) Oh yes! No Christian (and Isabella looming i the horizon) and the headmaster would likely have survived and little might have been done.

(5) The indeed very fast reaction will IMO result in Isabella starting at Herlufsholm come August. But as I mentioned in a previous post, Herlufsholm has seven weeks - max - to convince not only M&F but also the public that this time they take it serious!
So I imagine that by the end of this month we will see clear changes at the school - we will also hear more examples of bullying from former - and worse, present pupils.
So even though Herlufsholm is in full damage-control mode, the crisis is far from over yet!
Herlufsholm has to work hard, and be seen to work hard, on being a model school.
Members of the board are likely to reign, once things come more under control. I actually agree with the board, that right now is not the time to resign from the board. Someone with power and knowledge needs to stay on for a while to oversee the changes. Otherwise things might end up in confusion and the school disintegrate.

Additional:

The changes to take place at Herlufshom has been met with a positive response by Save the Children and the Ministry of Education.

ADDED: But the Ministry of Education will still keep a close eye on the school.
It is also speculated as to whether the chairman of the board will survive for long. (He won't IMO. But for now someone has to be in charge.)
There are also calls for more outsiders to become members of the board. There are way too many former pupils at the board now.

But it is acknowledged that such changes will not be completed overnight. It's an entire culture and set of norms that has to be fundamentally changed.

- Well, here Christian and his friends have an opportunity to lead the way.

[Izzie]

Thanks for all the information Muhler!

And I agree that this could be an opportunity for Christian and seeing him be a leader here and a catalyst for reforms if that makes sense. Maybe a silver lining in this horrible situation...for the school, the CPC and specifically Christian and also Isabella as a possible future student. That way him staying there can be presented as a positive.

[Muhler]

That would be great.

But at least while Christian and Isabella attend Herlufsholm, things will happen. So for at least the next four years, Herlufsholm will do its utmost to change the culture there - or they are toast! The press will be on the lookout for even the slightest sign of problems.
The current Minister for Education would probably love to sink her teeth into Herlufsholm (an elitist private school should go against her core-values) and with the state of the current opposition the Social Democrat government is likely to win the next election. So no help to the "old boys" from a would-be future Liberal government there.

DRF kids is a double-edged sword for schools.

DRF pupils attract the best teachers, resourceful parents and a lot of good PR - and they won't have problems with funding.
But on the other hand, problems at the school will be highlighted on the spot!

[camelot23ca]

I don’t know, if they were my kids I’d be taking them out. Christian could finish out the school year and that would be it.

My husband went to a traditional boarding school for five years while I spent two years at a more progressive one, and we both had mainly positive experiences. I will say that, while it’s hard to change the culture of any school, it’s particularly difficult with a boarding school because it’s such a closed system. You can paper over a problem in a matter of weeks but it takes years to really root out serious systemic issues. And it doesn’t matter where on the political/cultural spectrum the school is - they all encourage school spirit, a sense of community, taking pride in the X School way of life. All good things, for the most part, but ones that can easily bleed over into tribalism, pressure to go along with the majority, and a lack of caring toward those who aren’t able or willing to entirely get with the program.

I wouldn’t want my son to continue in a school in the middle of this kind of public uproar, even if I thought there was a genuine effort underway to make positive changes. In Mary and Frederik’s position I would also worry about the repercussions if Christian was involved in any sort of incident going forward. Even something very minor would get blown out of proportion. He wouldn’t even have to actually do anything. All it would take would be some sort of rumour or innuendo showing up in the press or online and they’d have a big problem. That’s true no matter what school Christian attends, but having something (hypothetically, allegedly) happen at this particular school would be especially damaging, and it would follow him around for years.

[Lady Daly]

Does anyone know if Christian had protection officers present with him on the campus of Herlufsholm. If so, could they have provided a buffer against bullying that otherwise might have occurred either to him or that he may have witnessed. If they were on campus with Christian, I wonder if they were interviewed by the Crown Princely Family.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by camelot23ca

I don’t know, if they were my kids I’d be taking them out. Christian could finish out the school year and that would be it.

My husband went to a traditional boarding school for five years while I spent two years at a more progressive one, and we both had mainly positive experiences. I will say that, while it’s hard to change the culture of any school, it’s particularly difficult with a boarding school because it’s such a closed system. You can paper over a problem in a matter of weeks but it takes years to really root out serious systemic issues. And it doesn’t matter where on the political/cultural spectrum the school is - they all encourage school spirit, a sense of community, taking pride in the X School way of life. All good things, for the most part, but ones that can easily bleed over into tribalism, pressure to go along with the majority, and a lack of caring toward those who aren’t able or willing to entirely get with the program.

I wouldn’t want my son to continue in a school in the middle of this kind of public uproar, even if I thought there was a genuine effort underway to make positive changes. In Mary and Frederik’s position I would also worry about the repercussions if Christian was involved in any sort of incident going forward. Even something very minor would get blown out of proportion. He wouldn’t even have to actually do anything. All it would take would be some sort of rumour or innuendo showing up in the press or online and they’d have a big problem. That’s true no matter what school Christian attends, but having something (hypothetically, allegedly) happen at this particular school would be especially damaging, and it would follow him around for years.

Not being from Denmark, I think it is difficult for us to appreciate Herlufsholm's position in the social system of that country.

According to this Wikipedia article , the school was founded in 1565 and there is a considerable number of notable Herlovians in Danish history.

More significant than that, on a personal level, Prince Nikolai attended the school and must have told Christian how he had a great time there (I am just speculating). From what we learned from Mr Muhler's posts, it also appears that several members of the Crown Prince's social circle of friends also have connections to the school and/or have children who are pupils there. As they said that none of their children were subject to the kind of incidents that have been uncovered by the documentary, I would imagine that they must have also highly recommended Herlufsholm to Frederik and Mary.

I also suspect that Christian personally likes the school and wouldn't leave on his own choice. As other posters said, Christian's position as heir to the heir to the Crown and the presence of security discreetly around him probably shield him too from any bullying threat and, most importantly, from getting involved with bullying practices himself. Besides, unlike Prince Charles, who was also mentioned in the discussions, Christian doesn't strike me as being shy or socially awkward. On the contrary, he seems to have the characteristics (outgoing, sporty, tall/good-looking, fun, etc.) that would make him naturally popular as a teenager, even if he were not who he is. It is entirely possible that, like the CP's friends' children, his experience at Herlufsholm might be completely different from that of the victims of the alleged incidents.

Bullying or more serious allegations (assault, rape, drugs) in elite boarding schools have become increasingly more frequent lately. Hollywood movies and TV shows have even made a cliché of the elite rapist boarding school headboy. Fiction aside, I think the jury is still out there on whether that is a systemic problem of the boarding school model that cannot be fixed (lots of teenage boys living together under their own social hierarchy and system of "self supervision" without enough adult oversight), or if it is just a symptom of broader social issues that also affect (maybe in different ways) inner-city public schools attended by low-income students. I tend to believe in the latter, rather than the former, but I am not an expert on the topic.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Lady Daly

Does anyone know if Christian had protection officers present with him on the campus of Herlufsholm. If so, could they have provided a buffer against bullying that otherwise might have occurred either to him or that he may have witnessed. If they were on campus with Christian, I wonder if they were interviewed by the Crown Princely Family.

He has.
But I doubt very much they are following him around on the school grounds, so unless he sounds the alarm (I assume he carries an alarm on him) they wouldn't be rushing in to break up a fight between Christian and someone else within seconds.
And that means they are unlikely to be witnessing anything either. After all who is stupid enough to beat up another pupil in front of a police officer?

The PET officers know Christian's schedule and presumably hang around where he is having classes, lunch or his dorm and follow him when he leaves the school, say to go to buy some chips at a local shop.
Perhaps he carry a GPS tracker as well.
I also imagine the local police has a patrol car more or less constantly around the school.
A part of Christian (and Isabella) going to a boarding school is to allow them to be teenagers around other teenagers, without too many restrictions and being able to do something without first having to give the PET officers an hours notice.

Today a number of parents have come out in defense of the school, claiming it's a good school and that their children have never suffered any bullying.

- And that's no doubt true. As it is with most schools.
But that doesn't really help those few who are bullied, does it?

[Queen Claude]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Not being from Denmark, I think it is difficult for us to appreciate Herlufsholm's position in the social system of that country.

According to this Wikipedia article , the school was founded in 1565 and there is a considerable number of notable Herlovians in Danish history.

More significant than that, on a personal level, Prince Nikolai attended the school and must have told Christian how he had a great time there (I am just speculating). From what we learned from Mr Muhler's posts, it also appears that several members of the Crown Prince's social circle of friends also have connections to the school and/or have children who are pupils there. As they said that none of their children were subject to the kind of incidents that have been uncovered by the documentary, I would imagine that they must have also highly recommended Herlufsholm to Frederik and Mary.

I also suspect that Christian personally likes the school and wouldn't leave on his own choice. As other posters said, Christian's position as heir to the heir to the Crown and the presence of security discreetly around him probably shield him too from any bullying threat and, most importantly, from getting involved with bullying practices himself. Besides, unlike Prince Charles, who was also mentioned in the discussions, Christian doesn't strike me as being shy or socially awkward. On the contrary, he seems to have the characteristics (outgoing, sporty, tall/good-looking, fun, etc.) that would make him naturally popular as a teenager, even if he were not who he is. It is entirely possible that, like the CP's friends' children, his experience at Herlufsholm might be completely different from that of the victims of the alleged incidents.

Bullying or more serious allegations (assault, rape, drugs) in elite boarding schools have become increasingly more frequent lately. Hollywood movies and TV shows have even made a cliché of the elite rapist boarding school headboy. Fiction aside, I think the jury is still out there on whether that is a systemic problem of the boarding school model that cannot be fixed (lots of teenage boys living together under their own social hierarchy and system of "self supervision" without enough adult oversight), or if it is just a symptom of broader social issues that also affect (maybe in different ways) inner-city public schools attended by low-income students. I tend to believe in the latter, rather than the former, but I am not an expert on the topic.

The person in question is not the progeny of nouveau riche parents / parvenus. He is Christian Valdemar Henri John, Prince of Denmark, Count of Monpezat and an heir apparent to a throne that goes back more than 1200 years. Christian is the last person in Denmark, if the planet, who needs the status, connections, prestige, and legacy of Herlufsholm.

Perhaps I am making incorrect assumptions about Denmark, but are there not other public and private schools in Denmark that offer a top notch education without also being among the worst schools in the country in terms of reports of bullying?

If a determination is made that Christian needs to be educated at Herlufsholm, so be it, but when the announcement is made that Christian will remain at Herlufsholm, it should also be announced that Crown Princess Mary will cease her anti-bullying advocacy. And as an aside, Christian, Crown Princess Mary and the Danish Royal Family are among my favorite royals.

P.S.
I am not being derisive of the nouveau riche / parvenus. I can understand why parents in that category, assuming that they don't think that their child is at risk of being bullied or bullying, would be hesitant to remove their child/children from Herlufsholm.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Queen Claude

The person in question is not the progeny of nouveau riche parents / parvenus. He is Christian Valdemar Henri John, Prince of Denmark, Count of Monpezat and an heir apparent to a throne that goes back more than 1200 years. Christian is the last person in Denmark, if the planet, who needs the status, connections, prestige, and legacy of Herlufsholm.

Perhaps I am making incorrect assumptions about Denmark, but are there not other public and private schools in Denmark that offer a top notch education without also being among the worst schools in the country in terms of reports of bullying?

If a determination is made that Christian needs to be educated at Herlufsholm, so be it, but when the announcement is made that Christian will remain at Herlufsholm, it should also be announced that Crown Princess Mary will cease her anti-bullying advocacy. And as an aside, Christian, Crown Princess Mary and the Danish Royal Family are among my favorite royals.

P.S.
I am not being derisive of the nouveau riche / parvenus. I can understand why parents in that category, assuming that they don't think that their child is at risk of being bullied or bullying, would be hesitant to remove their child/children from Herlufsholm.

There certainly are. QMII, Frederik and Joachim attended the private Krebs School and turned out fine.
There are plenty of good schools to choose from.

I disagree on your second point though.
If a school that has a serious history of bullying, I think it's important to support the school when it is committed to make serious changes.
After all with Christian and Isabella there - and the threat of them being pulled out, the incentive for actually making some thorough changes are there!
Because there is a considerable opposition against the reforms by former pupils and their parents as well as some current pupils.
It's an example or: I have no problems, ergo there are no problems.

It's also a part of the elitist thinking: We are special because we do something special.
That is of course a load of bull dust. - There are three things that makes Herlufsholm stand out from other schools in DK:
A) They have a number of weird old traditions, that only serves one purpose; to make the pupils feel special. - In themselves these traditions don't make the pupils higher scoring graduates.
B) The school can afford very good teachers and very good teaching material - but they still have to adhere to the guidelines laid out by the Ministry of Education. - Other schools can and do the same. I.e. providing excellent teaching.
C) It mainly attracts pupils from a certain social strata. - The same as Hellerup High School, which Felix is attending. Or the school M&F's children are attending. - Again, in itself it doesn't turn out higher scoring graduates.

As I see it, a main reason for Christian attending Herlufsholm is that he will be going there with a number of close friends, and among people who comes from a social sphere he will be comfortable with. That is of course a big incentive for a teenager, who will probably experience quite a few things for the first time while there. (Look at Nikolai, he found and had time and peace to cultivate his girlfriend there.) It's also the first time he will be on his own feet, so to speak.
And I can understand his parents: We have a high profile child. Where is there a safe environment to place him during these difficult years of his life? Before he takes the big plunge by being a conscript, then officer before going to the university.
So the creed of: What happens at Herlufsholm, stays at Herlufsholm, also has a positive side as well.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Muhler

As I see it, a main reason for Christian attending Herlufsholm is that he will be going there with a number of close friends, and among people who comes from a social sphere he will be comfortable with. That is of course a big incentive for a teenager, who will probably experience quite a few things for the first time while there. (Look at Nikolai, he found and had time and peace to cultivate his girlfriend there.) It's also the first time he will be on his own feet, so to speak.

That is what I was trying to say and maybe didn't make myself clear. As I see it, Christian is not attending Herlufsholm because it is necessarily the best school academically speaking, or because he couldn't get an equally good education anywhere else. Or because he needs social "connections" as a nouveau riche kid does. The reasons for going to the school may be much simpler than that, namely that his cousin told him good things about Herlufsholm, and Frederik's friends who have connections to the school or have children of their own there may have also made similar positive comments to the CP couple. Overall, both Christian and his parents may have concluded that Herlufsholm would be a place where he would feel comfortable and happy as a boarder.

Are Frederik and Mary guilty, however, of overlooking or ignoring the school's recent history of alleged bullying and more serious incidents? Did they also go along with the reasoning that "if my friends' kids have no problems and my kid probably won't have any problem either, then there is no problem", which would be terribly insensitive? Those are the questions that some people will ask themselves, but, as long as the school is seen to be moving in the right direction (firing the Headmaster, changing the dorm system, etc.), I assume Frederik and Mary will be given a pass and Christian will be able to stay at Herlufsholm. But he needs to be careful and be seen as a force for good (to change the school), rather than getting sucked into the old Herlovian culture or getting himself involved in any bullying practices, which would be a much worse scenario for the Royal Family.

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Are Frederik and Mary guilty, however, of overlooking or ignoring the school's recent history of alleged bullying and more serious incidents? Did they also go along with the reasoning that "if my friends' kids have no problems and my kid probably won't have any problem either, then there is no problem", which would be terribly insensitive? Those are the questions that some people will ask themselves, but, as long as the school is seen to be moving in the right direction (firing the Headmaster, changing the dorm system, etc.), I assume Frederik and Mary will be given a pass and Christian will be able to stay at Herlufsholm. But he needs to be careful and be seen as a force for good (to change the school), rather than getting sucked into the old Herlovian culture or getting himself involved in any bullying practices, which would be a much worse scenario for the Royal Family.

I think this is what would worry me the most. I assume Herlufsholm is a good school in many ways, with mostly good kids and decent parents. But the school seems to have allowed some harmful behaviours to go unchecked. Every school will have issues with things like bullying but some are more proactive than others in dealing with them. So now it’s got a tarnished image in the mind of the public, which isn’t that big of a problem from the school’s point of view, because a school like this doesn’t depend on the goodwill of the Danish middle class. It’s potentially a big problem for Mary, Frederik and Christian, though. If Christian is even peripherally involved in some sort of incident, if he’s accused of any wrongdoing - even if it turns out to be nothing in the end - the Danish public won’t give him the benefit of the doubt the way it probably would if he went to a different school. People will remember that he was allowed to stay at this school in spite of major issues coming to light, and it won’t look good for him or his parents.

I don’t think anyone can make every decision based on the possible worst case scenario, but since this is a family that depends very much on public good will I do think they need to consider how horrible it will look for them if there are any further problems.

[Izzie]

If I am understanding part of this correctly via Google translate that now just random students are being bullied by people outside school grounds if they even wear their uniforms? So now random people are bullying students for no reason? Seriously? Sorry but WTF?!? So people upset about the bullying are doing some bullying and verbal assaults of their own? IF the Google translate is close to accurate.

Muhler: could you be so kind as to read this article and provide a summary?
https://www.dagens.dk/nyheder/herluf...te-frederiksen

Additional articles
https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2022-...ig-undersoeger

https://nyheder.tv2.dk/2022-05-08-he...den-for-skolen

https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2022-...v-en-heksejagt

https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2022-...taenker-skolen

[Archduchess Zelia]

The article revolves around an open letter that was written by a group of parents of children currently at Herlufsholm. Parents who are opposed the (supposed) changes the school intends to implement and are outraged that the PM and the Minister of Education have both condemned what has happened at the school (not a word about M&F condemning it as well – I wonder why).

They go on to write that: "We see no unhealthy culture at Herlufsholm. We don't deny that bullying, violations and violence has taken place but we must insist that this is an isolated case and not the result of a culture. At least not a culture at Herlufsholm."

If that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about the authors of this letter and their blind denial...

And then, indeed, they write that the students supposedly don't wear their uniforms off campus "because of assault and threats". In the next sentence, they write that the students have been prohibited from wearing them for their own safety – makes it a bit unclear if it's just a precautionary action from the school.

In any way, there have been no reports of assaults or threats against Herlufsholm-students in the media. Considering that this story has been the biggest news story of the past week, I'd be surprised if the press has let incidents like that go unnoticed. And given the social status of the families who have children enrolled there, I'm actually absolutely sure such alleged assaults would've been brought to the public's attention.

So I'd be hesitant to get myself worked up over "random people" attacking Herlufsholm students (heaps of whom, by the way, are vehemently opposed the changes just like the authors of this letter – don't know what they will do for the change of culture) on the streets until we get credible accounts of this (and not just an open letter from parents who are more offended by the documentary and people's outrage over it than the things that have actually taken place at the school), if I were you.

[Muhler]

Sure.

But first. Herlufsholm has filed a police complaint regarding the examples of bullying that were described in the documentary. Which means that the police will have to investigate as to whether criminal offenses took place.
In other words the police will now have to question the named persons, at least, in the docu who were subjected to bullying or who witnessed bullying.
So basically Herlufsholm is reporting itself (and former pupils) to the police.

So if there is any truth in the examples of bullying, the persons who told about them in the docu should name names, times, and places to the police - if they can and will...

At the same time a team of layers will investigate Herlufsholm, and also the involvement of the board and whether the boards bear any responsibility. If so, the board is not safe. According to the chairman of the board.
And as for the layer, the first layer to head the investigation was declared incompetent, because of association. At the same office as the layer someone worked whose spouse in involved with Herlufsholm.

- I cannot recall any investigation where the part who is in trouble is going to such lengths to ensure that no finger can be pointed at anything regarding the investigation.
I do not believe for one single second that they would go to such extremes if the DRF had not been involved, in the shape of Christian.

There are a couple of thoughts popping up in my head, but that's pure speculation, so I won't write about it here. And I'm sure you may reach a similar conclusion to mine.

--------

And then to the article, kindly posted by Izzie.

That's turning into quite a comedy!
An open letter was published, from a "wide circle of parents" to pupils at Herlufsholm, expressing quite a bit of outrage that the PM, expressed her outrage of bullying taking place.

The press would of course like to know more, and ask whether this group of parents believe that the Danish Prime Minister should not denounce bullying? And who is this "wide circle of parents" and how many are there?
The press would also like to know more details about Herlufsholm pupils being subjected to whatever abuse it was by the public.
So far only one parent, the very same who owns the account from where this open letter was published to the press, has gone forward.
The rest are... silent. And no one else... wish to explain themselves to the press. No one else... wish to stand out by name, despite their outrage.
So it seems more than likely that this "wide circle of parents" consists of one mother.

I think it is safe to claim that you will find very few Social Democrats among the parents to the pupils at Herlufsholm, (they are overwhelmingly Conservatives) and we currently have a Social Democrat government. And that is probably where the dog is buried. (idiom) This smells more of a single woman's de fault outrage at a PM she does not see eye to eye with, rather than a "wide circle of parents."
- It's actually quite amusing to follow.

As for pupils form Herlufsholm being abused by the public.
It is not unlikely that some of them may have got a remark or two from the public when out and about in the nearby town. And there is a long history of animosity between the local state schools and pupils at Herlufsholm.
By we are not talking about Herlufsholm being by an angry mob with pitchforks and torches. That would be headline news - as it should if any abuse had happened.

There are some who deplore that system of prefects is abolished. Whatever IMO. That system has existed since 1936, less than 90 years. It's hardly an old tradition. Herlufsholm managed without prefects prior to 1936, I think the school will manage without from 2022 as well.

[Izzie]

Thank you Muhler!!

Apparently from what I can gather the CPCs statement has far reaching hands. If my Google translate is correct
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongelig...llioner-verden

BB sure is having a field day attaching this to CPC and Christian. He/they are the poster boy/people for all their articles. https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongelig...ik-sig-lige-nu
Why don't they write about what some of the other parents are doing while the "storm rages". Just like I called it. BB is just a Danish version of one of our US tabloids. BTW if you want to know what Frederik is currently doing (He is in the US right now attending an important event for one of his patronages) scroll to the end of the article where they finally decide to throw in a blurb about that!!

Again, thank you Muhler for providing the summaries.

Understandable that the firm of the lawyer assigned to investigate was removed given the firms connection to the board. Even though it appears it is not a direct connection via the lawyer, but via another lawyer at the firm, it is still something that could lead to questions of objectivity in the investigation or the firm being open to undue influence via this other attorney and his connection. So instead of asking the firm to recuse itself due to potential conflict of interest, the school did it for them.

As for the school filing the police complaint, I am not surprised. Like Muhler said, the police will now be forced to investigate the claims, especially given what has been alleged in the documentary. As such, those that spoke openly in the documentary are now subject to questioning and to show tangible proof for their claims. Plus, they should not be able to claim "right-to-privacy" as an objection given that they spoke on camera about their alleged experiences. They may now be asked to provide tangible proof of these claims. Like it or not, the school has a right to argue that they are entitled to whatever the students have to substantiate their claims. And if they went on television and showed their faces and gave their names (as either alleged victims or witnesses) well, there went their claim of privacy. Further, the school can argue that IF these people that spoke openly in the documentary do not cooperate with the investigation that it hinders the school from properly also investigating the claims and take action against any potential perpetrators, especially if they are current students involved. I can just imagine the school's argument being that IF names are not provided, the school is unable to investigate those individuals and take the proper actions against them (especially possible expulsion if the student is current). The school has put one of the balls in the air squarely back in the court of the ones making the allegations. Not sure how it works in Denmark, but here in the US, the burden of proof lies with the one making the claims. THEY have to prove their case. So the ones speaking in the documentary are now in the position of proving their allegations, including the witnesses as to what they saw and proof that THEY have as well. IF they refuse to cooperate with any police investigation, well, the argument (whether fair or not in the eyes of some) will be to put their allegations into question, because why would they NOT want to assist in any way possible in such an investigation, especially when they spoke in a documentary that they knew would be broadcast nationwide and possibly beyond. I could go on and on about the implications and consequences of the school filing a police complaint.

[Muhler]

Indeed.

And Herlufsholm urge everybody who has been the victim of abuse while at the school to step forward and tell the police or at least the layers investigating the school.
It's a very pro-active move, because that will make it less likely that similar stories will trickle in over the coming years. Better take the storm right now, and try and deal with it, rather than getting continuous bad press for years.

But there is more. The Ministry of Education (I've already told you about the minister) would like to investigate all boarding schools in DK. That is met with favorable political response across the political spectrum. - It's politically stupid not to support initiatives aiming at preventing bullying.
Interestingly I haven't yet seen a clear response from the Conservative party. The other main right-wing party, the Liberals, support such an investigation.

While the parents to the pupils at Herlufsholm in my assessment tend to be overwhelmingly Conservative, the Liberals are a much broader segment of right-wing voters who may not be particular inclined to send their children to a God, King and Country school like Herlufsholm. So the sympathy for Herlufsholm is pretty low among Liberals. - Do you follow me?

Anyway, such an investigation is met by the other boarding schools in DK with a mix of: Fine, bring it on. To annoyance that they have to suffer both an investigation and a certain public stigma, because of one boarding school that is run according to principles that are very different from the rest.

ADDED: I forgot to answer your question regarding the police.
Yes, there is no Code Napoleon in DK. The accuser has to - within reason - prove their case.
But of course a police investigation is not only based on what one person says. They will also ask the staff at the school and fellow pupils, as well as those who are named as being the bullies. The obvious questions being: Did you tell anyone at the school? Who? What happened?
Did members of the staff notice anything? Why not? If so, what did they do? What happened? And so on and so on.
So it's not just as case of the bullied pupils having to carry the burden of proof alone.

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Indeed.

And Herlufsholm urge everybody who has been the victim of abuse while at the school to step forward and tell the police or at least the layers investigating the school.
It's a very pro-active move, because that will make it less likely that similar stories will trickle in over the coming years. Better take the storm right now, and try and deal with it, rather than getting continuous bad press for years.

But there is more. The Ministry of Education (I've already told you about the minister) would like to investigate all boarding schools in DK. That is met with favorable political response across the political spectrum. - It's politically stupid not to support initiatives aiming at preventing bullying.
Interestingly I haven't yet seen a clear response from the Conservative party. The other main right-wing party, the Liberals, support such an investigation.

While the parents to the pupils at Herlufsholm in my assessment tend to be overwhelmingly Conservative, the Liberals are a much broader segment of right-wing voters who may not be particular inclined to send their children to a God, King and Country school like Herlufsholm. So the sympathy for Herlufsholm is pretty low among Liberals. - Do you follow me?

Anyway, such an investigation is met by the other boarding schools in DK with a mix of: Fine, bring it on. To annoyance that they have to suffer both an investigation and a certain public stigma, because of one boarding school that is run according to principles that are very different from the rest.

Interesting. The issue of wanting all boarding schools looked into could be to put them on notice (obviously) but also maybe to have those schools put pressure themselves on Helufsholm. I mean one bad apple overturning the whole cart is not good for them.

I am little confused as to the Conservatives being quiet on the issue and the comparison to the more liberal party. Could you give a little more explanation?

In the documentary, was there any type of tangible evidence presented (Ie cell phone footage of incidents, letters written to the school about alleged incidents, formal complaints filed to the school, school board, etc) or was it just a matter of them telling what allegedly occurred. Just curious, because now with a police complaint filed, all those types of documentations may be requested via whatever channels the Danish legal system has in place for such requests. And I agree, this is very pro-active and has slightly changed the tide to put the other side a little on the defensive angle now. Which, is to be expected and any legal team advising the school would not be worth the massive legal fees if they did not take this route.