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  #281  
Old 02-15-2018, 05:14 AM
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Poor Ariane. Katie Couric would label it "typically Dutch": Making a nasty fall during ice skating. ;-)

Get well soon, Ariane.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:26 AM
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Poor girl. Didn't her older sister pull a similar stunt a couple of years ago?

Well, the great thing about being a child is that you recover easily and quickly from injuries we adults would take months to recover from.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:32 AM
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I thought Princess Alexia broke her leg during ski holidays a few years ago
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  #284  
Old 02-15-2018, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Even if she is enrolled, is it assured she is going to do her entire schooling there, or perhaps only go for a year or so? I don't see her disappearing off to China for three years and never being seen.

Studying abroad is not only for 'the children of jet setters'. Many royals, including heirs, have studied abroad both at her age and college. While certainly we should expect her to do some events when she is 18 and getting money, her focus should still be on her schooling. Even if she spent a term, or a year of her university, abroad she could easily be back for events.

Perhaps a route like Felipe would be considered if she would like to study abroad further. He did his first degree in Spain before doing his masters in foreign studies in the US. Victoria spent time at university in France and Yale, while also completing a degree at Upsala and a diplomacy program.

I am sure a balance will be found for the future queen. Like her father, she will not have as much freedom of school choice as her sisters. Friso studied at Berkley (though he also did degrees in the Netherlands). Constantijn did his masters degree in France.
I suppose it is a 2-year program, so the idea is to finish the secondary school in China? The RVD has not confirmed anything yet, so we will see. We only see the princess three times per year: at winter- and holiday photo sessions and at King's Day, so it can not decrease so much . It would be nice if she was able to continue to attend those things, so people do not forget that we do have a crown princess.

The average tuition fee for the school is 320.000,- Yuan, which is 40.000 euros. Per year. Not money that most people can miss easily.
Fees | UWC Changshu China

I agree that studying abroad can be a very nice thing to do and that it is more common these days, though an exception still. The vast majority of the population does not even go to university, let alone do so abroad. However, I do not argue that the princess should not go abroad at all. Or that she should do everything the way that 'the average Dutch person' would do. She is in a special position and from an affluent family after all.

It would be nice and IMHO necessary that the most important part of her higher education will be done in this country - which has excellent universities too. From her 18th birthday she will be expected to join more formal events, she will become a member of the Counsel of State and from her 18th birthday she can be called to the throne without a regency.

As you say, a Dutch degree first and a limited master/post master program abroad would be logical & the most tested approach indeed (not for the King though). A gap year of 'looking for herself' in South America or Asia also is a regular thing to do for many students these days. It will be something that I am sure most people would not mind. A continuum of 8-10 years abroad should however be -and probably is- out of the question.

--

BTW apparently Nelson Mandela was a honorary president of the UWC school group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinolovertje
Princess Ariane broke her wrist last sunday when she was ice skating the RVD announced this morning. It was diagnosed durinv a hospital check-up. She will have 3 weeks of plaster. Probably she will be able to ski in Lech during the spring break her doctor says.
Thanks for the update. A painful thing indeed, let's hope it is not the wrist of the side with which she writes.
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  #285  
Old 02-15-2018, 06:42 AM
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I really hope it turns out to be true. It will be a great opportunity for Amalia, she'll get new friends, learn about another culture, learn to speak fluent chinese and, of course, live the life of a commoner for a period of time. I support going to another country to study, I will try to do the same as well, I intend to enroll a Japanese University for a Master's degree this year.
I wonder if Alexia and Ariane have been studying chinese as well, or if they choosen a different language. I think Leonor and Sofia of Spain have chinese classes as well.
BTW, Amalia is studying mandarin or cantonese?
Chinese is offered at their secondary school starting in year 2. So, Amalia only started attending classes a year and a half ago. Alexia might decide to take these classes from next year.

And of course, like all other Dutch students at the gymnasium level, both Amalia and Alexia have English, German and French classes. Chinese is additional, not instead of other languages.

Linked to the three regular language courses the school offers exchange programs in 4th grade (most like short programs) for France, Germsny and the USA - according to their website.

Furthermore, we have to keep in mind that Willem-Alexander went to boarding school because he had issues at home. It didn't go well between him and his parents at that point, so far, we've seen no sign that something similar is going on with Amalia. So, of course, she might like to attend a school abroad but there seems to be less need and the Dutch gymnasium program with a plus program is very high level, so no reason to opt for a more general education elsewhere.
  #286  
Old 02-15-2018, 07:56 AM
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[...]

And of course, like all other Dutch students at the gymnasium level, both Amalia and Alexia have English, German and French classes. Chinese is additional, not instead of other languages.

[...]
Plus the obligatory classic Latin and classic Greek languages, which are part of the traditional curriculum of a Gymnasium. (A similar curriculum but without the classic languages is given at an Atheneum.)
  #287  
Old 02-15-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Now I understand the high frequency of the visits between President Xi Jinping and the King (in 4 years time meetings betwee the two at the Chinese State Visit to the Netherlands, the Chinese visit to the The Hague Nuclear Summit, the Dutch State Visit to China and the Dutch Official Visit to China)



It is a challenging choice for the Princess of Orange but a very good one. To learn Chinese and to study in the world's upcoming superpower and to make friends for life there is never a bad idea!
Is English the language of instruction at UWC Changsu ?
  #288  
Old 02-15-2018, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Is English the language of instruction at UWC Changsu ?
Yes, it is a British college in China. But undoubtedly she will improve her Chinese language, simply because she will be surrounded by more than a billion Chineses...

  #289  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Yes, it is a British college in China. But undoubtedly she will improve her Chinese language, simply because she will be surrounded by more than a billion Chineses...



and all students are required to take at least a 2 year Chinese Class, while they are enrolled. (http://www.uwcchina.org/en/ib-diploma-programme)

more information about the Chinese programmes of the school:
http://www.uwcchina.org/en/chinese-programme
  #290  
Old 02-15-2018, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Plus the obligatory classic Latin and classic Greek languages, which are part of the traditional curriculum of a Gymnasium. (A similar curriculum but without the classic languages is given at an Atheneum.)
Indeed, although most students take final exams only in either greek or latin (I did both but that there were only a few of us and according to my sister-in-law who teaches these subjectsit is still uncommon for students to kerp both subjects until the end of highschool).

I don't expect UWC to offer these classes so from a Dutch perspective she would receive a 'lower' secondary degree although both atheneum and gymnasium give access to university studies.
  #291  
Old 02-15-2018, 02:47 PM
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I don't expect UWC to offer these classes so from a Dutch perspective she would receive a 'lower' secondary degree although both atheneum and gymnasium give access to university studies.
They seem to teach English, French, Spanish, German and Chinese in Changshu. So indeed no Greek or Latin, but Amalia could at least continue to study all the other languages she speaks/learns.
  #292  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:27 PM
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They seem to teach English, French, Spanish, German and Chinese in Changshu. So indeed no Greek or Latin, but Amalia could at least continue to study all the other languages she speaks/learns.
If it is a standard IB Diploma program, I understand students have to take two languages, Mathematics, a natural science, and a social science, plus one additional subject, which can be either an arts subject, a second natural science or social science subject, a third language, or Further Mathematics.
  #293  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:45 PM
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They seem to teach English, French, Spanish, German and Chinese in Changshu. So indeed no Greek or Latin, but Amalia could at least continue to study all the other languages she speaks/learns.
Most students would quit studying either German or French at some point (obligated in the first three years but not in the second three years). Given her position she might be encouraged or decide to keep all. However, the only thing that distinguishes the atheneum from the more highly regarded gymnasium diploma is latin and greek. And she picked gymnasium for secondary school (at a high school that only offers this type of education; it would also have been possible to study at the gymnasium stream at a school that also offers atheneum and HAVO the middle level of secondary education) but she preferred this specific school/stream.

The IB program offers fewer subjects than her Dutch high school.
  #294  
Old 02-15-2018, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If it is a standard IB Diploma program, I understand students have to take two languages, Mathematics, a natural science, and a social science, plus one additional subject, which can be either an arts subject, a second natural science or social science subject, a third language, or Further Mathematics.

That's more or less how it's described on the UWC Changshu website.
I am never sure what to think about IB programs. Six subjects doesn't seem much to me (at least compared to the Netherlands or Germany, the systems I am most familiar with), but it seems to work out as the IB diplomas are recognized almost everywhere and I'm not aware of much criticism of the concept.
And of course it's actually more about the quality of the subjects and not so much about the sheer amount...

Quote:
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Most students would quit studying either German or French at some point (obligated in the first three years but not in the second three years). Given her position she might be encouraged or decide to keep all. However, the only thing that distinguishes the atheneum from the more highly regarded gymnasium diploma is latin and greek. And she picked gymnasium for secondary school (at a high school that only offers this type of education; it would also have been possible to study at the gymnasium stream at a school that also offers atheneum and HAVO the middle level of secondary education) but she preferred this specific school/stream.
So would you think it would be an odd decision by Amalia to discontinue her study of Greek/Latin, because she initially choose a school that stands out because of Greek/Latin?

I obviously don't know, but maybe she picked that specific school not because of Latin and/or Greek but because she likes languages in general and they offered more than other schools? Or she just liked the overall atmosphere there? Or maybe a friend went there and that's why she choose it too - that's how the most children I know choose there school

Does a gymnasium count more than an atheneum in the Netherlands today? Officially it obviously doesn't, but is it regarded as something "better" by many Dutch people? (And if so, would you think that's because of Latin and Greek or maybe more because some people think that because of Greek and Latin other people/better students choose for gymnasiums and so the education is better in general?)

Speaking about gynmasium/atheneum etc.: Do we know if Willem-Alexander learned Greek/Latin at his Dutch schools eg. if he went to the atheneum or gymnasium branches of his schools?
  #295  
Old 02-15-2018, 04:52 PM
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Does a gymnasium count more than an atheneum in the Netherlands today? Officially it obviously doesn't, but is it regarded as something "better" by many Dutch people?
imo not really, it offers the same chances in further education and job choice. Taken classical languages is more a matter of interest and interest in learning of the pupil.
For me this explanation sums it up pretty well:
https://www.luzac.nl/voortgezet-onde...erwijsniveaus/

translate.google.com/translate

I took a couple of years of Latin in high school and enjoined it mainly because of the basis it gave for other languages and sciences, but eventually dropped it (more of a science person )
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  #296  
Old 02-15-2018, 05:11 PM
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Thank you Lee-Z! I had always about the same impression (but I only went to University in the Netherlands, so I am not an expert in the rest of the Dutch education system).
But reading your link I get the impression that a Gynmasium is nevertheless regarded as something at least a bit better or more difficult than Atheneum?

> Een gymnasiumleerling vindt leren leuk en uitdagend (Gymnasium students love to learn)
This implies imo that Atheneum students don't like to learn?!
>> Bovendien kiest een gymnasiumleerling er bewust voor om harder te werken dan een vwo-leerling (Gymnasium students intentionally choose to work harder than (other) VWO students).
So while they state that Gnymasium and Atheneum educations are at the same level, they still say that a Gynmasium is harder (and that makes an atheneum easier). Isn't that a bit weird?
(BTW as a linguist I have to say that I always find it odd and definitely wrong to attach so much meaning to specific languages or language talent in general as all languages have their own kind of complexities and it's really pretty individual and subjective which languages you find more easy/difficult to learn and why (and often its because you like or dislike the teacher)).

(I never could and still can't handle reading/writing Dutch and English at the same time, sorry for all the mistakes...)
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:34 PM
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Latin and Greek is not only about the languages. Nowadays it alsp includes the subject 'Classical Cultural Education', so these students are seen as more broadly educated. Choosing a categorical gymnasium (as Amalia and Alexia did) even more so as all there peers apparently have the same high level and broad interest.

In the earlier years latin and greek are additional subjects, so more difficult in that respect. Furthermore, they are considered to be among the harder subjects, so students need a good study ethic to complete these subjects successfully.

Another difference between atheneum and gymnasium is that you might find former HAVO students in the final 2 years at the atheneum level but not at the gymnasium level, so there is a clear difference in terms of peers. You won't choose to do gymnasium unless you are sufficiently motivated to do the extra work.
  #298  
Old 02-15-2018, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by pinolovertje View Post
Princess Ariane broke her wrist last sunday when she was ice skating the RVD announced this morning. It was diagnosed durinv a hospital check-up. She will have 3 weeks of plaster. Probably she will be able to ski in Lech during the spring break her doctor says.
Oh dear. I hope Ariane will get better soon.
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  #299  
Old 02-15-2018, 05:43 PM
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That's more or less how it's described on the UWC Changshu website.
I am never sure what to think about IB programs. Six subjects doesn't seem much to me (at least compared to the Netherlands or Germany, the systems I am most familiar with), but it seems to work out as the IB diplomas are recognized almost everywhere and I'm not aware of much criticism of the concept.
And of course it's actually more about the quality of the subjects and not so much about the sheer amount...
IB is internationally recognized and offers certain experiences that a Dutch gymnasium education wouldn't but the overall level would imo by higher at the gymnasium. There are far fewer students who are able to complete it successfully compared to the IB programme.

Quote:
So would you think it would be an odd decision by Amalia to discontinue her study of Greek/Latin, because she initially choose a school that stands out because of Greek/Latin?

I obviously don't know, but maybe she picked that specific school not because of Latin and/or Greek but because she likes languages in general and they offered more than other schools? Or she just liked the overall atmosphere there? Or maybe a friend went there and that's why she choose it too - that's how the most children I know choose there school
Not completely odd but something to consider as the general level is lower; although most IB programs offer many electives, so she will learn other things that might interest her.

Quote:
Does a gymnasium count more than an atheneum in the Netherlands today? Officially it obviously doesn't, but is it regarded as something "better" by many Dutch people? (And if so, would you think that's because of Latin and Greek or maybe more because some people think that because of Greek and Latin other people/better students choose for gymnasiums and so the education is better in general?)

Speaking about gynmasium/atheneum etc.: Do we know if Willem-Alexander learned Greek/Latin at his Dutch schools eg. if he went to the atheneum or gymnasium branches of his schools?
I believe he did atheneum. Never heard of him doing gymnasium but the school did offer the gymnasium stream.
  #300  
Old 02-15-2018, 05:47 PM
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Oh dear. I hope Ariane will get better soon.
Hope so too; 3 weeks of plaster will mean that she is still wearing it at the time of the annual photoshoot in Lech (26th of feb, if i'm not mistaken)
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