Royal Wealth and Finances 1: Ending 2022

[Isabella]

We know that and Richard Palmer - a royal reporter doesn't. That says a lot about the knowledge of 'royal reporters' doesn't it?

I think he likely does know, but such facts would get in the way of his trying to spin a story. He, in particular, seems to have a habit of doing that sort of thing (unless he is really completely clueless).

 

[Dman]

Richard Palmer knows Charles pays for the Cambridge's and Prince Harry's Royal Household. I think he's wondering what's the total cost to run their household.

 

[Osipi]

I think that's a figure we will never know and I hope it stays that way. I can see the expenditures being made public on their official dealings but when it comes down to their private lives and finances, they should expect the same level of privacy everyone else has. I, myself, wouldn't take to kindly inquiries from Joe Public as to what the state of my finances are and/or how I spend it. Heck, even my husband and I don't have to justify what we buy or don't buy with each other all the time.

 

[Rudolph]

Its only the Queen and the Prince of Wales who are provided with official incomes. Both give yearly financial reports. They are not required to give breakdowns for individuals.

We don't see the Queen giving figures for the Household of the Duke of York or the Princess Royal.

Charles shouldn't give numbers for William and Harry. Richard Palmer is just being his usual annoying self.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

I think he likely does know, but such facts would get in the way of his trying to spin a story. He, in particular, seems to have a habit of doing that sort of thing (unless he is really completely clueless).

Yes, he knows! But the problem is that ordinary people don't. Many believe in everything the media says / writes. Some people even believe in what crazy people like Russell Brand is saying.

Richard Palmer knows Charles pays for the Cambridge's and Prince Harry's Royal Household. I think he's wondering what's the total cost to run their household.

As I said in my previous post, the costs of running the household of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry are included in the cost of running the household of Prince Charles and Camilla.

Richard Palmer get it to sound like as if William gets money from Charles to cover the cost of his household. He doesn't, those who work for William, Kate and Harry are paid by Charles through the duchy of Cornwall. Many of those who is working for Charles also work for William, Kate and Harry. It's really like one household, at least when it comes to the costs.

 

[COUNTESS]

Ordinary people know, they, also, know that the lands that they get their revenues from and the vast amount of their incomes originated with them. They never earned it. They took it by the sword, so to speak, for the many years they never paid taxes, for the sovereign to sovereign past fortune. The jewels Camilla has on loan, from the Queen Mother, would have been taxed but this subterfuge keeps them free and clear.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Ordinary people know, they, also, know that the lands that they get their revenues from and the vast amount of their incomes originated with them. They never earned it. They took it by the sword, so to speak, for the many years they never paid taxes, for the sovereign to sovereign past fortune. The jewels Camilla has on loan, from the Queen Mother, would have been taxed but this subterfuge keeps them free and clear.

You can believe what you want, but I will not discuss this with you again.

 

[Osipi]

They never earned it. They took it by the sword, so to speak, for the many years they never paid taxes,

And from my limited knowledge of such things, they also gave it back. Just imagine if they had never done that and the entire £285m the Crown Estates earned went in their pockets.

We forget too that perhaps each royal probably has invested and has healthy portfolios that are money makers in themselves. Perhaps HM owns a fair share of Microsoft or Charles has mega holdings in the Donald's companies and even Beatrice heavily invested in Virgin corporations. Perhaps both George and Charlotte own enough Disney stock to personally tell Goofy what to do. We just don't know and frankly, its none of our business.

 

[Rudolph]

Property giant The Crown Estate found itself at the centre of an explosive row this week – one that overshadowed a record year for the company.

The Crown Estate owns property and land all over Britain on behalf of the Queen, and its results attract attention.

The landlord and developer, which dates back to 1066, returns all profits to the Treasury which then dispenses 15 per cent of them to the monarchy through the Sovereign Grant.

So a 6.7 per cent rise in annual profits to a record £285.1m for 2014-15 means the Royal Family will get a cut of £42.8m in 2016-17 – up £2.7m on the previous year.

In the past decade The Crown Estate has returned more than £2.3bn to the Treasury – good news for taxpayers as well as the Queen. In the last financial year the value of its property empire jumped 16.7 per cent to £11bn.

More: Coining it for the Queen:*How the £11bn*Crown Estate*makes a mint*for the nation | This is Money

 

[Rudolph]

Duchy of Lancaster annual report: http://www.duchyoflancaster.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Duchy-Report-and-Accounts-2015.pdf

Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt
Buckingham Palace say the Duchy of Lancaster money is mainly used to fund the expenditure of royals including Andrew, Anne and Edward.

Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt
The Duchy of Lancaster is a private estate which covers 18,433 hectares.

Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt
The Queen's private income from the Duchy of Lancaster has increased by 18 per cent to £16m. (2014 £13.6m)

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Why can't Seb find something interesting to write about?

Four helicopter flights for Charles to watch polo says SEBASTIAN SHAKESPEARE | Daily Mail Online

 

[JessRulz]

Author David McClure has given the TRF Blog another article based on his book Royal Legacy, focusing on how the Windsors - in particular Queen Mary - distribute their wealth in the form of gifts to other family members.

The full article can be read here, some of information I found most intriguing pieces I've listed below.

• Princess Margaret received approximately £800,000 worth of gifts from her grandmother, Queen Mary, by her 21st birthday
• On her first birthday, Princess Margaret received a silver candle-holder from Queen Mary - the first of twelve
• Princess Margaret's estate at the time of her death valued to the amount of £7,603,596
• Queen Mary routinely gave her grandchildren "chain gifts" - pieces such as silver tea services - over a number of birthdays, eventually creating a full set
• Queen Mary's estate at the time of her death valued to the amount of £406,407 9s 8d, as she had already gifted a lot of her possessions during her lifetime

Queen Mary's distribution method saved her family from massive death duties, that's for sure.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Queen planning a palatial new home for her pigeons - Telegraph

Stewart Wardrop, manager of the Royal Pigeon Racing Association, estimated the cost of the luxurious new loft to be around £40,000, in an interview with the Mail on Sunday.

The news comes after reports that the Queen might have to move out of her London residence, Buckingham Palace, so £150 million of urgently-needed repair work can be carried out.

What the heck has this to do with the £150 million repairs at Buckingham Palace? The Sandringham estate is owned privately by the Queen, and she / her Sandringham staff is not asking for any public money to do this, nor will they use the sovereign grant to cover it.

 

[Honeybees]

Exactly so. He's a businessman in many ways. He's had the ability to be eclectic and follow his interests (as do most all wealthy people who inherit their money) but he has set into motion many organizations, over which he exercises directional control. He is massively well-informed and it has everything to do with the work he does in the world, outside of his royal obligations. If you look into what he has done, his achievements are impressive. It took work.



Nope, what Charles has done is very, very different from the charity photo-ops most royals do, though Charles does those, too.

Charles has generated personal wealth from his business endeavors, that he is able to then use to support his personally developed charities. This is not the norm. Most royals do not plow money into the charities they represent. Charles does, plus he also fundraises for them.

He is a wealthy man in his own right, able to bank-roll aspects of William's and Harry's lifestyles out of his own money. Like most 'CEO-types' he does determine his own schedule but it's not really that free ('does what he wants when he wants') since he is networking with others, just like any businessman. He has a schedule, and from all accounts it's pretty intense.

That's a career in my book.

. Does the bulk of The P.O.W's money not come from the Duchy of Cornwall which is inherited money? Is it not also inherited money that pays for D.O.C, His wife and Prince Harry? How do we know what, just to grab a name out of thin air, Princess Anne does with her money? Not undermining The P.O.W, The Prince's Trust etc., just asking?

 

[Lady Nimue]

Does the bulk of The P.O.W's money not come from the Duchy of Cornwall which is inherited money?

When it comes to that, all wealthy people have a leg-up. My understanding is that the income from the Duchy of Cornwall is the heir's paycheck to do with as he will. In Charles' case he has made money with it - so it's hard to parse what is 'inherited' from what is 'his' though his augmentation of the money. However it goes, or however you divie it up, it doesn't just sit there, he handles it, invests it, etc.

Is it not also inherited money that pays for D.O.C, His wife and Prince Harry?

As per my previous comment, the income from the Duchy is his paycheck, which (one could say) he deposits and then works with on one side as his own to support his family (the rest, not his paycheck, is plowed back into the Duchy). What he desposits is his personal 'fortune' that he has grown. That baseline/paycheck may be inherited, but the amount that it has become as a personal fortune in his own bank account is due to his diligence (and it is from that money that he actively dips into as a philanthropist). After all, Charles could have turned out to be a wastrel. Many aristocratic/royal heirs were just that. Charles has proved to be a canny businessman and generous philanthropist. He is not the norm for his class, especially as a philanthropist.

How do we know what, just to grab a name out of thin air, Princess Anne does with her money?

Is this a contest? Are you offended in some way that a poster thinks highly of Charles' accomplishments? As best as I can make out Anne may receive some monies from her mother (the monarch) as her paycheck for her royal work, but I don't think she has her own Duchy. She is also not in the same royal position as Charles. I'm not sure she 'makes' a great deal of money though she is not poor. I have no idea what she does with her money. Given that she is not the heir, her finances are of less concern to the media.

Not undermining The P.O.W, The Prince's Trust etc., just asking?

So you recognize that the tenor of your 'question' conveys 'undermining'?

The Prince's Trust is a vehicle for philanthropy for others. No one is claiming that all that money is Charles'. He is the 'name' behind it, and as such, generates the funds in that way for his charities.

Hey, bro, think what you want. Like Charles, don't like Charles. Okay with me. I don't have a dog in any fight. It just seems to me patently obvious that Charles has done significant work in the world, and been a unique royal in many respects, especially in regards his personal philanthropy. His like will not come along for many a moon, methinks. Peace.

 

[padams2359]

I think he has worked with the Duchy to improve the methods used in farming, etc. I think his concern for land and farming developement has been an asset to both parties. I don't think the last PoW (Edward VIII) would have cared very much what was going on there aside from his check.

 

[Mbruno]

A new study by the firm Brand Finance puts the net value of the British monarchy in 2015 at almost 57 billion pounds (or 87 billion US dollars at the current exchange rate).

http://brandfinance.com/images/uplo...of_the_british_monarchy_2015_full_details.pdf

Excluding tangible assets, the annual net economic contribution of the monarchy (including associated tourism, leisure and merchandise revenue plus the Crown Estate surplus and minus costs such as the Sovereign Grant, etc.) is about 37 billion pounds, which shows that the monarchy is a great value for the UK.

 

[Soula]

Its my understanding that Beatrice does support her own personal charities and patronages and does what she can to bring focus to them.

She is not a working member of the BRF's "Firm" and although she does hold the style of Princess Beatrice of York, she's pretty much a private citizen and lives her life accordingly as any private citizen would. None of the PR people that are connected to the BRF's "Firm" handle Beatrice or Eugenie whatsoever. No taxpayer's money are floating them and even their personal security is paid for by their father.

There is no reason whatsoever that the public needs to be aware of each and every movement she makes in her life. She could move to Hawaii and teach belly dancing if that is what she chose to do or open an automotive repair shop on the frozen tundra up in Alaska. All I know is that if I was in my 20s and well heeled and could do what Beatrice does, I'd be gone yesterday.

To put it bluntly, neither of the York girls "owes" the public anything. I think the only person that could make a legitimate complaint about any of their activities would be their grandmother and I've yet to hear a peep from that corner.

Point taken, but they do get accommodation at St James Palace. Who pays for that?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Andrew has paid the rent on the apartment at St James' since Eugenie left university. While she was a student it was paid for by the government but since then it has been Andrew himself. He also pays for their security.

 

[Mirabel]

Andrew has paid the rent on the apartment at St James' since Eugenie left university. While she was a student it was paid for by the government but since then it has been Andrew himself. He also pays for their security.

People frequently allude to this, plus the fact that the girls have trust funds from the Queen Mother so that they don't live off taxpayers' money. They are not on the Civil List.

Nevertheless, where did Andrew get his money? Or the Queen Mother get her wealth? From royal properties. It's true the Queen has a personal fortune, but she wouldn't have acquired it if not because of her royal birth.

This is true of practically every single member of the BRF, whether or not they are on the Civil List. The money still comes from the royal coffers in the end.

 

[Iluvbertie]

There is no Civil List anymore and it was only ever to cover the official expenses of the royal concerned.

The rest of the fortune comes from the private property of The Queen, including the Duchy of Lancaster. Some careful management of that income has seen the private wealth grow, especially in the first 40 years of the Queen's reign when she didn't have to pay any tax on it (early monarchs had had to do so but George VI negotiated that little perk when he became King and The Queen kept that until forced, by public opinion, to voluntarily pay tax in 1992. It was also when she was forced to repay the Civil List voted for all royals other than herself, Philip and The Queen Mum).In effect from 1992 the official and private lives of the royals have been funded by the Duchy of Lancaster.

She, being a rich woman to begin with would probably have also established trust funds - we know she set up one for both the York girls as part of the divorce settlement - accounting for 2/3rds of Sarah's actually payout. How each of those royals have invested their income from those trust funds over the years we don't know - and it is private business - some probably have done better than others. The Queen invested heavily in dot.com stocks when they were doing very well and there were reports that she lost a large number of millions in one collapse or other - but she could afford to do so and has recovered.

Andrew also sold Sunninghill for around 15 million pounds - what he did with that money - who knows but probably he as invested it so that it has grown considerably and he can thus afford to support his daughters.

To argue that the Queen wouldn't have acquired her wealth if not for her royal birth is true of many rich people - they start off with a lot of wealth and then manage it carefully to see it grow further. That argument is true for many of us - I am wealthier today than my parents were at my age because they left me their wealth and I have used their money, had some luck and followed sound advice. I will leave my family in a better situation and thus able to have the wealth grow further if they are sensible with it.

Not every wealthy person makes it on their own merits but often through inheritance e.g. the Duke of Westminster's family fortune is as much about luck as about good management - a dowry in the 1600s of a piece of land that is now one of the wealthiest areas of London, Belgravia, that he owns. Had his ancestor not gained that land as part of his wife's dowry then the Westminter's be as wealthy as they are now.

 

[tommy100]

Didn't Andrew also pay for the renovation work for Royal Lodge out of the money from selling Sunninghill? When he took on the lease from The Crown Estates he was required to pay £7.5million excluding VAT of renovation work on the property, I imagine a chunk of the £15million from the sale will have gone to that.

 

[Iluvbertie]

He paid for the renovations at Royal Lodge by the end of 2005 when he and the girls moved in there. He didn't sell Sunninghill until 2007 so the money from Sunninghill wasn't used for Royal Lodge.

He was only required to pay 5 million pounds but because the refurbishment cost more - the 7.5 million he only had to pay another 1 million and has the place now rent free for the remainder of the 75 year lease which expires in 2080. He is only allowed to leave that lease to Sarah or the girls as well and after 25 years, if the lease is terminated there is no compensation but if the lease is terminated before the end of 25 years there is some compensation taking account of what he spent and rent etc.

 

[tommy100]

He may have borrowed the money for work at Royal Lodge, I can't imagine Andrew had easy access to £5million in cash without selling Sunninghill.

 

[Iluvbertie]

His mother is one of the wealthiest women in the world. Do you really believe that she hasn't set up substantial trust funds for her younger children to ensure that sums like 5 million are available.

I have seen an estimate of Andrew's wealth put at close to 75 million and Edward's at around 50 million. That can only have come from the establishment and good management of trust funds.

If the Queen put 100,000 in trust annually for each of her children from birth they would have at least 5 million without any interest payments or other input at all.

 

[Mirabel]

Andrew also sold Sunninghill for around 15 million pounds - what he did with that money - who knows but probably he as invested it so that it has grown considerably and he can thus afford to support his daughters.

To argue that the Queen wouldn't have acquired her wealth if not for her royal birth is true of many rich people -
Not every wealthy person makes it on their own merits but often through inheritance

Yes, but in the end, it comes back to the same thing- the royal coffers!
How did Andrew get Sunninghill in the first place? A gift from the Queen.

So when someone says that a member of the BRF is not obliged to do anything constructive and can while away his time as he pleases, this is not correct!

The public expects members of the RF to do something in exchange for the perks, and this includes the second tier of royals as well. They are expected to either work or to perform charitable duties- or both. They are not expected to go skiing or sunning at every possible opportunity, and it they do, it will create hostility and cause people to denigrate all of the RF as scroungers.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Queen has a private income to fund her private life and that of anyone else she chooses. It is no more from taxpayers than is the income from any other landowner who rents out property but because it is The Queen and Charles that charge is levelled at them all the time.

They do not receive a salary to do anything and the only one who actually has anything official to do is the monarch. The others do things from a sense of duty not because they receive any payment for doing so as they aren't paid.

 

[cepe]

well said. No salary, just brickbats and complaints if people either don't understand or just don't like them.

Perhaps just leaving it to Charles and his direct heirs is right.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I would go further - given the way Andrew and Edward are regarded by many people:

The monarch and spouse
The heir and the heir's spouse

The rest of them have real jobs and no official duties, no security etc and no press coverage - meaning Harry and Charlotte have to go and work for a living or be jetsetter's etc doing their own thing with no concerns about how they are perceived as they aren't 'working royals' at all.

 

[cepe]

I really don't disagree with that - but the legacy is that the media will never let go.

EDIT: there is only one outstanding issue - security. And of course, the cost.

Harry is currently deemed (according to media sources) to be a high risk - do we just leave him to his fate?