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The only part of your post that strikes me as incorrect, Queen Camilla is the idea that the Duchess of Windsor would have ever outranked anyone styled an HRH.
I believe that personal "titles" have nothing to do with the Order of Precedence. I don't think upgrading from just The Princess Anne to The Princess Royal changed her rank in any way. She was still the monarch's eldest/only daughter at the end of the day.I disagree, with Diana outranking Princess Anne, because the Princess Royal title, means Anne out ranks all other BRF princess, regardless if the man is in the room.
Charles bowed to the Duchess of Windsor. He bowed so she outranked him. That would mean Duchess of Windsor outranked Diana.
Previous Princess Royals left the BRF. Princess Anne continues to work for the BRF so her title as Princess Royal moved her before all other Princesses.
The Queen created the female Order of Precedence when she finally moved into the 21st century and women in the BRF were seen for themselves and not for their husband's position.
Charles bowed to the Duchess of Windsor. He bowed so she outranked him. That would mean Duchess of Windsor outranked Diana.
Not all previous Princess Royals left the BRF. And by left I believe you are referring to the fact that they married into other royal families? In fact, prior to Anne I can think of the last three who didn't (Mary, Louise and Victoria).
With that in mind, if I am correct when Lady Elizabeth Bowles Lyon married Albert, Duke of York she became the third lady in the land AFTER Queen Mary and Queen Alexandra but before The Princess Royal (Princess Mary). She would have, of course, been fourth if Edward, Prince of Wales had married.
And I am sorry there is no way, that Her Grace the Duchess of Windsor would have outranked HRH The Princess of Wales (whether its Camilla or Diana). Do you have anything that supports your claim?
Many people simply don't understand what the Queen did in 2005 when she issued private precedence for ladies only - an order that only applies when there are no men present and in private situations only and thus they think it applies in all circumstances when a lady is present without her husband but it doesn't - it simply can't.
I guess after what has transpired with both Diana and Sarah the queen simply wanted to make sure that in her presence at private occassions and female members of the family only, Anne and Alexandra outrank her daughters-in-law. It's that way in many families: age outranks younger generations and daughters are closer to their mother than the daughters-in-law. My mother had 7 brothers and sisters and there was an enormous amount of offspring and we all knew our place when it came to large festivities which included our grandmother.
Does that then mean Beatrice and Eugenie outrank Camilla and Sophie as well? Does that then mean that Lady Louise, if she were 18 years old, would outrank Camilla and her mother as well, because she is a grand-daughter of the Sovereign?
I think I remember reading that after the abdication, The Duke of Windsor was placed behind all his brothers in precedence, but ahead of all other Dukes...
Does that then mean Beatrice and Eugenie outrank Camilla and Sophie as well? Does that then mean that Lady Louise, if she were 18 years old, would outrank Camilla and her mother as well, because she is a grand-daughter of the Sovereign?
Seriously, that's the easiest way to see some sort of precedence! It's a bit fun to debate about the private precedence, but truthfully the public may never know that pecking order (and why should we? That's why it's private! Though I'm still confused why it was even released that the order was changed in 2005, it's not anyone outside the Royal Family's -or their close friends'- business)I always just go by who is in what carriage and who is behind who in the line up as they exit, haha.
Seriously, that's the easiest way to see some sort of precedence! It's a bit fun to debate about the private precedence, but truthfully the public may never know that pecking order (and why should we? That's why it's private! Though I'm still confused why it was even released that the order was changed in 2005, it's not anyone outside the Royal Family's -or their close friends'- business)
Looking at the processions at Philip's 90th birthday service and Zara's wedding - you can see how it goes Queen/Philip, Charles/Camilla, and then William/Kate (sadly no more William/Harry). Before, after the Waleses came the Yorks, with Andrew flanked by his daughters. It's hard to tell, but I'm guessing that Harry walks with Andrew now, ahead of Beatrice and Eugenie. It will probably stay like that until either Royal man gets married (no idea how long til that happens!) or maybe even a York Princess..
Er...where does Prince Harry fit in?
MM
According to Debretts, Diana was considered the third lady in the land after her marriage, preceded only by HM and QEQM. One school of thought has it that HM revived the Princess Royal title in order to ensure that a Princess of the Blood was not outranked by one who "married in" and who by that time, was causing distress and considering leaving the RF.
but the Princess Royals children are after all the HRHs.
At one time they sat with their mother. Are they placed further back now because they are married? Technically, they are higher in the line of succession and precedence as grandchildren of the Queen, but they are not official members of the Royal Family. What will happen when Beatrice and Eugenie get married? Where will they sit?
At court and officially, they would take precedence after the male-line grandchildren of The Queen who are HRH and closer in succession to the throne....What will happen when Beatrice and Eugenie get married? Where will they sit?
At court and officially, they would take precedence after the male-line grandchildren of The Queen who are HRH and closer in succession to the throne.
So where do Louise and James fit in as they do not have HRH but their father is before Zara and Peter's mother?
At court and officially, they would take precedence after the male-line grandchildren of The Queen who are HRH and closer in succession to the throne.