The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #21  
Old 07-07-2018, 05:02 PM
JR76's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 2,846
To me it's a given that Alexander will take over the lease one day but I'm not so sure about Carl Philip not holding it between the King and his son. He's already heavily involved in the running of the estate and he has a degree in agriculture.
The will states that the lease is for a prince of the royal house and that a Duke of Södermanland have first dibs on the lease if he or his guardian wants it but it also states that if there are more persons who has an equal right to the lease it's up to the King to decide. The will doesn't spell out what these equal rights are but the vague wording allows, according to my interpretation, for the King to leave the lease to Carl Philip who'll then in due time be succeeded by his son.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:00 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 2,095
To correct my earlier comment, it was Carl Philip's (not Alexander's) eventual takeover of the lease which Ms. Thorgren declined to confirm, and I assume she left it open as Alexander will perhaps already be of age when the current king passes away, and should he demand to take over Stenhammar his rights as the Duke of Södermanland will override those of his father.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaxon1 View Post
Since the number of dukedoms is limited (the 25 traditional provinces, or "landskap"), sooner or later the King would have been forced to give away the Dukedom of Södermanland and the rights to Stenhammar. In this way, it stays in Carl Philip's family. It probably was the King's plan all along.
Would keeping the Dukedom of Södermanland and Stenhammar in Prince Carl Philip's family remain a feasible option if the future Queen Victoria, to limit the number of Princes and Princesses, decided not to request the government to give its consent to the marriages of her brother's sons and as a result their children were not royal? In terms of precedent, Stenhammar did not stay with Count Lennart Bernadotte after his father Prince Wilhelm's death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
To me it's a given that Alexander will take over the lease one day but I'm not so sure about Carl Philip not holding it between the King and his son. He's already heavily involved in the running of the estate and he has a degree in agriculture.
The will states that the lease is for a prince of the royal house and that a Duke of Södermanland have first dibs on the lease if he or his guardian wants it but it also states that if there are more persons who has an equal right to the lease it's up to the King to decide. The will doesn't spell out what these equal rights are but the vague wording allows, according to my interpretation, for the King to leave the lease to Carl Philip who'll then in due time be succeeded by his son.
I think the intent of the "equal rights" wording was to leave it to the King to decide which prince of the royal house should hold Stenhammar at times when there are multiple adult princes of the Royal House, but none hold the Dukedom of Södermanland, or the Duke of Södermanland has declined the lease. However, assuming that Alexander in adulthood will have a good relationship with his father, the likelihood that he will demand his father give up Stenhammar to him is probably very limited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Only when he passes it will leave CP's line (assuming that Alexander and Gabriel's children won't be princes of Sweden) and another royal duke (most likely a son (or grandson) of Estelle if she has any) will take over.
If the queen or king on the throne at the time Alexander dies wishes for their daughter or granddaughter to take over Stenhammar, would the members of the National Property Board truly decide in the 22nd century on the interpretation that the estate is eligible to be leased to men only?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:59 AM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 4,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post


Would keeping the Dukedom of Södermanland and Stenhammar in Prince Carl Philip's family remain a feasible option if the future Queen Victoria, to limit the number of Princes and Princesses, decided not to request the government to give its consent to the marriages of her brother's sons and as a result their children were not royal? In terms of precedent, Stenhammar did not stay with Count Lennart Bernadotte after his father Prince Wilhelm's death.



Even if it would have been possible for Count Lennart Bernadotte to take over the lease of Stenhammar i don't he would have wanted it or had the time for it as he then already had taken over the Mainau and made it succesfull.
__________________
Stefan



Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-03-2019, 01:51 PM
LadyFinn's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southwest, Finland
Posts: 30,335
The King's forests at Stenhammar have been severely attacked by European spruce bark beetle.
Drought causes the pest insect to spread - causing major problems for forest owners.
The European spruce bark beetle is the insect that causes the greatest damage to our spruce forests, according to the Swedish Forest Agency. The extremely dry and hot summer last year led to record-breaking attacks mainly in southern Sweden - and major damage is expected this year as well.
The Forest Board therefore urges forest owners in affected areas to keep a close watch on their forests and to inventory the stock continuously to look for infestations.
- I follow the development with the European spruce bark beetle closely and get involved in the problem. Stenhammar's goods have been attacked. The most important thing now is to explore the distribution and report so that you get a complete picture of how serious the problem is. It is extremely time-consuming and costs money, but is the only way to overcome this, says King Carl Gustaf.
The king often says that Stenhammar's estate is the place where he feels most at home. He and Queen Silvia go there as often as they can, they spend many weekends there.
The Royal Stenhammar estate in Södermanland uses drones to survey the ravages of European spruce bark beetle in the forest.
Kungens skogar angripna av granbarkborre – berättar själv
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-07-2019, 03:32 PM
Blog Real's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 3,537
The King sells Zlatan and Zolo!

https://www.svenskdam.se/kungligt/ku...atan-och-zolo/

At Stenhammar's estate outside Flen, it's time to get rid of a couple of faithful servants in the garden.

They are a little bull-headed, everything, Zlatan and Zolo, who can no longer remain at Stenhammar Estate. The two, muscular gentlemen in the pasture are to be sold.
https://translate.google.pt/translat...an-och-zolo%2F
__________________
My blogs about monarchies
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-22-2019, 12:35 PM
LadyFinn's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southwest, Finland
Posts: 30,335
Stenhammar Estate Management, Lida Gård and Flen Municipality present:

Welcome to a large food bazaar & integration party with Flen VärldsOrkester, Flen Unga VärldsOrkester & Silvertrion.
See you at the castle park at Stenhammar castle Sunday 1 September 2019 • Free entry • Parking SEK 50 (cash or Swish) • Come hungry! Flavors from all over the world are available at the large food bazaar. Keep in mind that cash or Swish may be needed.

Program:

13.00: The entrance opens
14.00: The King & Queen are on site and welcome the people
14.10: Flen Unga VärldsOrkester
15.00: Silvertrion
15.40: Flen VärldsOrkester
http://www.stenhammarsgods.se/wp-con...6/IMG_9724.jpg
Musik & Mat — Stenhammars Godsförvaltning
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:14 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 2,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The will of the last owner of Stenhammar authorizes the state to lease it for life to any prince belonging to the Royal House who has succession rights to the throne. A Duke of Södermanland, if he wishes to lease the property, takes priority over the other candidates.
Efter min hustrus död skola samtliga hemman och hemmansdelar med tillhörande byggnader av staten varje gång på livstid utarrenderas på efterskrivna villkor åt någon svensk undersåte varande prins av det regerande konungahuset, vilken har eventuell arvsrätt till tronen.

Finnes vid något utarrenderingstillfälle någon svensk undersåte varande, eventuell arvsrätt till tronen ägande, prins av det regerande konungahuset, som är hertig av Södermanland, så äger han företrädesrätt till arrendet, om han eller hans målsman så önskar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I believe the Court is following a literal reading of the Act of Succession, which says that "princes and princesses of the Royal House are brought up [...] within the Realm". Since Madeleine's children are no longer "princes and princesses of the Royal House", the literal interpretation is that the aforementioned requirement no longer applies to them.

[...]
If the Court is consistent in following a literal reading of "prince of the Royal House", Prince Alexander's ability to lease Stenhammar is in jeopardy, unless it can be contended that "konungahuset" is distinct from "kungahuset". I wonder if they have taken that into account.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:41 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 11,136
For the record the castle is not the king's to bestow on anyone. The castle was donated to the State, when the previous owner died. The king simply leases the land from the state. Carl Philip or his son would have to request the lease from the state, when the king dies or gives up his lease on the property.

The castle will not remain in CP's line. It may be leased by him and his son, time will tell. But its ownership remains with the court.

Alexander's title dies with him. Swedish duchies are not inheritable. There may not be another Duke of Sodermanland for generations. That is why the will does not stipulate it can Only be leased by the duke of that title.

Alexander's children will simply be Mr or Miss Bernadotte. They will have no titles and no rights under the current stipulation. It could be argued the court could change that but not its not likely unless there are no possible heirs. It would be more likely court would change it to allow a Princess to lease instead.

We have no idea if Alexander will want it anyways. He will be a private citizen growing up. He may not want to be tied down to the home.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:53 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 2,095


As Mbruno pointed out, though, by all appearances the Court no longer considers Prince Alexander to be a "prince of the royal house". Since the testament stipulates that the lease should be conferred on a prince of the royal house, does Alexander still retain the right to take over the lease?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:59 PM
JR76's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 2,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
If the Court is consistent in following a literal reading of "prince of the Royal House", Prince Alexander's ability to lease Stenhammar is in jeopardy, unless it can be contended that "konungahuset" is distinct from "kungahuset". I wonder if they have taken that into account.
The wording of the will is a bit strange.
"Efter min hustrus död skola samtliga hemman och hemmansdelar med tillhörande byggnader av staten varje gång på livstid utarrenderas på efterskrivna villkor åt någon svensk undersåte varande prins av det regerande konungahuset, vilken har eventuell arvsrätt till tronen."

"After the death of my wife all parts of the estate and the buildings buildings belonging to it should be leased for life on the terms stated to a Swedish citizen who is a Prince of the ruling Royal House who has an eventual/possible/potential right of inheritance to the throne"

I've included all three translations of "eventuell" that I could think of. I wonder if there's an old meaning of it that I'm not familiar with. The word seems to imply that the holder of the lease doesn't have to hold inheritance rights to the throne. Prince Alexander does retain said rights but maybe this could open up for a different interpretation of the stipulations of the will?

"Finnes vid något utarrenderingstillfälle någon svensk undersåte varande, eventuell arvsrätt till tronen ägande, prins av det regerande konungahuset, som är hertig av Södermanland, så äger han företrädesrätt till arrendet, om han eller hans målsman så önskar."

"If at the time of the lease there is a prince of the ruling Royal House with an eventual/possible/potential right of inheritance to the throne who is Duke of Södermanland he holds the right of priority to the lease if he or his guardian so wishes."

This means, according to my interpretation, that Prince Carl Philip could have still been perfectly within his rights to hold the lease if Prince Alexander was either underaged or if he had decided to relinquish his right to his father.

"Konungahuset" is just an older and more formal version of "Kungahuset". It means the same and the form Konungen and Konungahuset is still used in very formal settings as for instance in the constitution and the military exclamation "Gud bevare Konungen!" (God save the King!)
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:05 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Brandon, United States
Posts: 40
In light of the changes to the Swedish Monarchy on October 7, 2019, this has become an interesting situation to me. I asked about this on the "titles" page and I got the feeling that Alexander had lost the right to use Stenhammer Castle if he wanted to. Which would be a moot point if he didn't want to. But upon reading this I see many different possibilities. He is still technically in the line of succession and he, of course, is the Duke of Sodermanland. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Or really if it even matters. I don't know that he will be desperate for a home to live in. His father has inherited several properties in his own right. Just a curious situation.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
castles, residences, sweden, swedish royal history


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
administrator archie mountbatten-windsor aristocracy bangladesh belgian royal belgian royal family chittagong crown prince hussein's future wife crusades current events cypher danish royalty denmark diana princess of wales duchess of cambridge duchess of sussex duke & duchess of cambridge; duke of sussex dutch royal family dutch royals family search french royalty future future wife of prince hussein germany haakon vii hamdan bin mohammed hill history house of bernadotte israel jerusalem jumma king salman lithuania lithuanian palaces mailing meghan markle memoir mohammed vi monaco royal monarchism mountbatten netflix nobel prize norway history official visit pakistan prince charles prince daniel prince harry princess benedikte princess margaret pronunciation qe2 queen maud queen paola rown royal children royal tour state visit state visit to denmark sweden thailand tracts trump united kingdom valois visit from sweden working royals; full-time royals; part-time royals;


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:52 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020
Jelsoft Enterprises
×