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  #1  
Old 11-24-2003, 08:08 PM
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The King's Opinion on the Succession Laws

Interesting article.. Surely he would have had a say at the time??

Swedish king says his son, not daughter, should take over throne
Mon Nov 24

STOCKHOLM (AFP) - Twenty-three years have passed since Sweden adopted a new Succession Act, but King Carl Gustaf XVI is still upset that his eldest child, Princess Victoria, and not his only son will become Sweden's next monarch.

The Swedish Constitution was changed in 1980, giving the eldest child of the royal couple the right to the throne, regardless of gender.

The new law stripped seven-month-old Carl Philip of the title of Crown Prince and made his elder sister Victoria, now 26, heir to the throne.

Victoria is hugely popular in Sweden and is widely viewed as a capable and worthy successor to her father, but the king nonetheless said at the weekend that he was displeased by the change in the law.

Asked by Swedish television whether he still believed the change was wrong, he said:

"Of course. It's simple. A constitutional law that works retroactively, that's odd," he said.

A spokesman for the royal family, Elisabeth Tarras-Wahlberg, stressed that the king was however very pleased with the way Victoria was carrying out her duties as crown princess.
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Old 11-24-2003, 09:35 PM
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...Well that's nice. Bordering on "sexist" maybe? I think it's the first born's right to become crown prince/princess. It shouldn't matter what gender they are. Ha, it's the King's fault anyways. The man decides the gender.
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Old 11-24-2003, 09:39 PM
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The nerve of him!
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Old 11-24-2003, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Binny@Nov 24th, 2003 - 8:08 pm
Swedish king says his son, not daughter, should take over throne
This was posted on another board earlier. I've read a few books and European Royalty and this change in Swedish law that allowed Princess Victoria to become the heir to the throne has always been a sore spot for the King of Sweden.

After reading this interview and those he has given in the past the King has nothing against women coming to the throne, well maybe he is a little sexiest, but it's more the fact that new law took effect after he and Queen Silvia had Prince Carl Philip. He feels that the new law should have taken affect for Prince Carl Philip's children and not his own. I am sure he is very proud of Princess Victoria, but he feels that his son was cheated of his rightful position.

I think if Victoria had her way, at least in the past, Prince Carl Philip would be heir and she would have been able to lead a more normal life. Prince Carl Philip on the other hand appears to be quite happy to take the back seat and not worring about being king.

The King was just voicing his opinion, but I don't think Sweden will change the law back as Princess Victoria is very popular.
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Old 11-24-2003, 10:08 PM
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That is all true. And yes Carl Philip was already around but he didn't know. So his feelings weren't hurt at that moment. Anyway, I do feel bad that a law was changed. In fact, that there was a law at all. It should have been the eldest child to begin with. However, changing for the children of the next generation might have been a better solution for all around. But I don't think Carl Philip has felt cheated.
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Old 11-25-2003, 06:31 AM
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Well I think the parliament has to discuss such a topic twice. So wasn't the law expected to be changed? So that they have changed it at that point of time just depended on the way on how to change the act of succession. And it was already clear that there would be a change!
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Old 11-25-2003, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
timtonruben359  Posted: Nov 24th, 2003 - 9:43 pm
has always been a sore spot for the King of Sweden.
Some people find change difficult. Maybe the King is a mcp.

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mixer2002de  Posted: Nov 25th, 2003 - 6:31 am
Well I think the parliament has to discuss such a topic twice.
The Swedish Parliament as I gather is one of the few around that is uni-cameral, that is they abolished the second (upper) house. Some could argue that its nice to have a monoploy situation, but in most cases the upper house (except for the USA (and Germany?)), is a freebie political patronage appointment thingy .... so to vote for your patron is how democratic ?
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Old 11-25-2003, 11:15 PM
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I couldn't quite comprehend the recent threads, but here is another article on it:

http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/english/article158322.ece

NEWS IN ENGLISH
SWEDEN:
Victoria's father does not want her as queen

Tilrettelagt av Carin Pettersson 25.11.03 10:59

It is 23 years since the constitution was changed, but Carl XVI Gustav of Sweden is still not comfortable with the law change that makes his oldest daughter the next regent of Sweden.

“It’s strange,” said Carl Gustav in an interview on Swedish television Sunday.

Prince Carl Philip was born as the Swedish Crown Prince in 1979, but the Swedish government changed the constitution in 1980, making the oldest child inherit the throne. Suddenly Victoria became the Crown princess, and Carl Philip was degraded to prince.

The King of Sweden apparently still has a hard time with accepting the change.

“I think it’s simple, a constitution that works in retroactive force is strange.”

The King of Sweden has always been against the law change. In 1980 Carl Gustav said the following, according to the paper Vestmanland:

“I would prefer that my son Carl Philip is my successor, and I’m sure that the majority of the Swedish people would prefer to have a king on the throne.”

The Swedish court was Monday very specific when it stressed that the Kings comments do not mean that he is displeased with Crown Princess Victoria or the job she does.

The statements from the King were not at all appreciated by Swedish politicians. Gudrun Schyman, the Liberal Parties former leader, said the King’s statements is another argument to why Sweden should abolish the monarchy, and she said that she thinks it is horrible if the King questions a democratic decision.
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Old 11-26-2003, 01:15 AM
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I wonder how Victoria feels about her father's view of things.

And I think Victoria will make an excellent ruler someday, perhaps even more so than Carl Philip would be. She seems so charming, outgoing, and genuine -- definitely good qualities for a future queen to have.

Does Victoria really want to be crown princess though? If not, she could step down, and her brother could take over. That would definitely make her father happy.
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2003, 10:59 AM
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Hi i saw part of the article that said that King Gustave still wanted to make his son his sucessorinstead Victoria, is not the first time i heard that, i hope is no true!!
Wen

http://www.hola.com/

p.s. I hope someone can post the full article.
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  #11  
Old 11-26-2003, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mixer2002de@Nov 25th, 2003 - 6:31 am
Well I think the parliament has to discuss such a topic twice. So wasn't the law expected to be changed? So that they have changed it at that point of time just depended on the way on how to change the act of succession. And it was already clear that there would be a change!
Yes, that´s correct! If the law is part of the constitution ( and the act of succesion is) it has to be confirmed by two regular elections for the parliament ( today every 4 year, at that time every 3 year). Since the first election was pro the change in the constitution everybody in the modern Swedish society assumed that there should be no problem to get it past the second election as well and thats why P. Carl-Philip was Crown Prince until the election in september and hence the moral issue for the King..
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Old 11-26-2003, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by beebee@Nov 26th, 2003 - 1:15 am
Does Victoria really want to be crown princess though? If not, she could step down, and her brother could take over. That would definitely make her father happy.
I do not think that this would make her father really happy, he woud get rather large troubles I think.
I think that the swedish public would be upset and espacially the parliament would be. Actually I think a lot of MPs would suspect, that the King made her step back to cantradict their change of the law. And as the swedish socialist party wanted sweden to become a republic, at least in their former party goals, they might just replace the monarch by a president. Actually this would be the best point of time to do so, if you would like to have the citizens support. As the Swedes like Victoria and at maybe that situation they would not like their king that much.
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Old 01-09-2004, 01:52 PM
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Hi everyone. I've been reading these forums for awhile, but this is my first post. I just love this website! You guys are great.

I came across an article in "Hola" magazine with this headline: "El Rey de Suecia prefiere a su hijo como sucesor al trono en vez de la princesa Victoria" From what I can translate, is it saying that the King wants Carl Philip to take over the throne instead of Victoria? Why would he say that? Didn't he get the laws changed when Victoria and Carl Philip were babies? I think Victoria will do a wonderful job as Queen. She is intelligent, graceful, poised and elegant. Anyone have any ideas on this?

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Old 01-09-2004, 02:06 PM
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" From what I can translate, is it saying that the King wants Carl Philip to take over the throne instead of Victoria? Why would he say that? Didn't he get the laws changed when Victoria and Carl Philip were babies? "

It's a gut feeling in him. He was rather unhappy with the Swedish parliament changing the law that would allow the first born, regardless of gender, to become the next regent. Technically, this is old news. I don't know why the press would bring it up again. He does feel that Victoria will make a great queen. Of course, she is. I'm not one to say. I'm biased on the subject of Victoria. But that being said, he just felt that his son would also being missing out on a great opportunity. The pride of fathers, I guess. A brother who is diminished by his sister. It has happened before. But I don't think Carl Philip is at all jealous of his sister. He is happy with his life now. He worries about Madeleine because he feels that she is "hunted" by the press. He is no doubt relieved about not becoming King. And no doubt, he, like millions of Swedes and other citizens of the world, know that Crown Princess Victoria will make a wonderful queen one day.
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Old 12-19-2004, 08:30 PM
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The Change of the Act of Succession - 1979 Constitution Change

Column by Gioffredo Godenzi at Etoile

Wednesday 10 November 2004
The Next Queen Victoria

Like lots of other young career women, she doesn’t get much free time but when a spare moment appears, she likes nothing more than sweeping up her thick, dark hair, putting on a pair of jeans and visiting friends. She’s a regular at the local gym, which is where she met her boyfriend, its owner and in a warm, slightly husky voice she describes her job as, ‘helping mum and dad’.

In reality, there’s not much that is ordinary about 27 year old Victoria Ingrid Alice Désirée, Crown Princess of Sweden, Duchess of Västergötland or the family business she’s involved in. This pretty young woman with warm, brown eyes will eventually head the House of Bernadotte as Queen of Sweden.

In one particular way, her life has already set a standard for modern constitutional monarchies when, as a two year old, the hereditary crown was removed from her infant brother’s head and placed on hers by an Act of Parliament. From that moment on, the Act of Succession decreed that the first born child of a Swedish monarch will inherit the throne and not the first born son.

What, if any, effect the Swedish government’s decision of 1979 had on the relationship between Victoria and her brother is unknown. Whilst there is a clear historic precedent for boys to take place over their sisters where crowns are concerned, there has never been a whisper from Carl Philip about the situation and brother and sister appear to share a rapport like any other siblings.

The one person who has let his feelings show about the Act on more than one occasion, is Victoria’s father King Carl Gustav, although he is careful to add that his words do not undermine his daughter’s capabilities. The trouble is that while he might say that he is proud of his daughter’s handling of the role, it can’t be easy for Victoria hearing that the King would still prefer his son to be Crown Prince.

Of course, after the Act, Victoria’s life was destined to be different from that of an indirect heir. Unlike the British line of succession, which goes on down to the hundreds, the Swedish line is tartly short and consists of only the monarch’s children. As it stands, the current line includes Crown Princess Victoria, Prince Carl Philip and the Nordic beauty Princess Madeleine. Perhaps, one day, Victoria would have faded into near obscurity like some of King Carl Gustav’s sisters but fate has other plans.

Instead, Victoria will carry the House of Bernadotte into the next generation. It’s a duty that she takes very seriously and one that she says she would never renounce for any reason. She firmly believes that the monarchy plays an important role in Sweden, despite the fact that the monarch’s powers are extremely limited. Although the role of monarch in Sweden is a purely ceremonial one, the Swedish government makes sure that its future sovereign is as prepared as she can be for what awaits her.

The Swedish Government is not what you would call fervently monarchical. At best, a number of Swedish political parties seem to marry such an ancient institution as monarchy with the country’s renowned modern progressive ways, cordially.

Only recently the King was reprimanded during a trip to Asia, for publicly saying that the Sultan of Brunei was not such a bad leader as he met weekly with members of the general population in special audiences.

The Swedish media and government were aghast because the Sultan rules Brunei rather autocratically. To imply that the Sultan might be anything close to a democrat was therefore preposterous. As a result of this faux pas, the King must now face the demoralising proposition of a government official accompanying him on State visits so that nothing like that happens again.

While the bureaucrats of Sweden may, on the whole, be in two minds about the merits of their monarchy, the public holds a very different view. Victoria is tremendously popular with her countrymen and the royal family’s public standing is very high. If the Swedish public has its way, the monarchy will be around for some time to come and this is perhaps why the government, working closely with the palace, has ensured that Victoria receives a solid grounding in the running of Sweden.

Her education in preparation for her future role can only be described as gruelling, especially when one considers that she spends much of her time travelling the world representing Sweden. Following studies in Political Science at Yale and Uppsala, the government’s programme included a study of the workings of the Swedish Parliament, stints at both the United Nations and the European Union and a course at the Swedish Trade Council. She even impressed the ranks of the Swedish Army during a combat training programme. Not bad for a twenty-seven year old who battles dyslexia!

The Crown Princess, like her father and brother, suffers from this syndrome. She has said that there were periods in her childhood when learning proved difficult. She was sometimes made to feel stupid at school – a common experience amongst sufferers – but in the end she triumphed, which is just as well for a young woman whose life consists of endless study.

Victoria also suffered briefly from an eating disorder in her early twenties. Rather than keeping the fact under wrap, her parents issued a statement declaring that the Princess had developed the disorder and asked the Swedish public and media to give her the space and time to recover, which she did, surprisingly quickly.

Although no one would choose to suffer from dyslexia or an eating disorder, people who face such challenges tend to develop an understanding of what others can go through in their lives. Such compassion from first hand experience can only be an asset, albeit a bittersweet one, to someone who shall one day be a Queen.

What Swedes are curious to know is the name of the man who will win their future Queen’s heart. Victoria has dated a couple of young men, but her current boyfriend of three years, Daniel Westling, is rumoured to be the one.

Opinion of the entrepreneurial gym owner in the media appears divided, as are the reports of what the King and Queen think of the man who may stand beside (behind?) Crown Princess Victoria. One report declared that King Carl Gustav and Queen Silvia feel Daniel to be a perfect match for their daughter while, a week later, another said that they lamented his reportedly poor English and background.

A more likely guide is his increasingly frequent appearances with the family in public and Victoria’s reluctance to confirm or deny that he is currently undergoing and intensive course in royal life.

If photographs are anything to go by, the two seem happy in each other’s company. It can’t be easy running a relationship where the outcome is of importance to the entire country and Victoria realises that being her boyfriend is more difficult than it would be were she a regular Swedish girl. In a recently aired documentary she said, ‘It’s not easy to be together with me but the situation is the same for anyone who’s in the spotlight’.

The life of a Prince Consort has historically been an uneasy one. Prince Albert battled with the role, as have modern men like Prince Philip of Great Britain, Prince Claus of the Netherlands and Prince Henrik of Denmark. Crown Princess Victoria can only be well aware of the pressures her husband will face as Consort and no doubt wants to be sure that Daniel will cope.

Sweden has not had a Queen since the reign of the eccentric madcap Queen Christina in the 1600’s. Apart from steering the country into bankruptcy, Christina was, to put it bluntly, a crackpot and hardly a role model for a Crown Princess of the 21st Century. However, Victoria appears to share her resolute conviction to duty with an Englishwoman who bore the same name. And, if the young Princess’s flawless work ethic to date is anything to go by, the reign of Queen Victoria of Sweden will be just as golden as that of her namesake.
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Old 12-19-2004, 11:37 PM
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‘helping mum and dad’

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandDuchess
What, if any, effect the Swedish government’s decision of 1979 had on the relationship between Victoria and her brother is unknown. Whilst there is a clear historic precedent for boys to take place over their sisters where crowns are concerned, there has never been a whisper from Carl Philip about the situation and brother and sister appear to share a rapport like any other siblings.
He's probably breathing (on more than one occasion) a big sigh of relief.

Quote:
The one person who has let his feelings show about the Act on more than one occasion, is Victoria’s father King Carl Gustav, although he is careful to add that his words do not undermine his daughter’s capabilities. The trouble is that while he might say that he is proud of his daughter’s handling of the role, it can’t be easy for Victoria hearing that the King would still prefer his son to be Crown Prince.
Daddy's old-fashioned ..... and perhaps envious that his daughter will reverse a trend that he was unable to?

Quote:
She firmly believes that the monarchy plays an important role in Sweden, despite the fact that the monarch’s powers are extremely limited. Although the role of monarch in Sweden is a purely ceremonial one, the Swedish government makes sure that its future sovereign is as prepared as she can be for what awaits her.
That's good that she has this conviction. Her great grand-dad had not choice but to relinquish of the rights, and can perhaps be persuasive in "reversing" that trend. Her Dad, bless me just didn't (doesn't) have that wherewithall .... if his Dad had lived, perhaps ....

Quote:
Only recently the King was reprimanded during a trip to Asia, for publicly saying that the Sultan of Brunei was not such a bad leader as he met weekly with members of the general population in special audiences.
I'm on record to have said here that he was "set up" in this regard, and I stand by that. Only people in the know could have 'endorsed' such a basis that lead to such a speech. No wonder, and rightly so, the King was furious to have been made a public fool. No wonder he's so antagonistic .... he doesn't know who to trust. Hopefully Victoria can 'capitalize' on this.

Quote:
Aa result of this faux pas, the King must now face the demoralising proposition of a government official accompanying him on State visits so that nothing like that happens again.
and ETW, what's her reward in this regard?

Quote:
the public holds a very different view. Victoria is tremendously popular with her countrymen and the royal family’s public standing is very high. If the Swedish public has its way, the monarchy will be around for some time to come and this is perhaps why the government, working closely with the palace, has ensured that Victoria receives a solid grounding in the running of Sweden.
the ruling class always has to mind, that they heed the masses.

Quote:
The life of a Prince Consort has historically been an uneasy one. Prince Albert battled with the role, as have modern men like Prince Philip of Great Britain, Prince Claus of the Netherlands and Prince Henrik of Denmark.
See, see ....
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Old 12-20-2004, 02:15 AM
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Smile

Great article! Thanks for posting it. About the whole thing about Prince Carl Phillip losing the title of CP, I can't help but notice that it seems like he and Princess Madeleine seem to be closer in pictures and such. I'm sure he and CP Victoria get along well, but I think he is closer with Princess Madeleine since they are both younger and in the same position of being a royal, who as they get older will play a smaller and smaller role in the royal family.
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Old 12-20-2004, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by GrandDuchess
The one person who has let his feelings show about the Act on more than one occasion, is Victoria’s father King Carl Gustav, although he is careful to add that his words do not undermine his daughter’s capabilities. The trouble is that while he might say that he is proud of his daughter’s handling of the role, it can’t be easy for Victoria hearing that the King would still prefer his son to be Crown Prince.
Just to CLARIFY - the King actually never said it this way, this is how the media immediately interpreted him. What he said (in the interview that this originally comes from, and has stuck with us) is that he finds it very strange for a Government to change such an important law in the constitution and then make it valid posthumously/afterwards - turning back the tape and stripping Prince Carl Philip of the Crown Princely title and role - not that he would like Prince Carl Philip to be Crown Prince and heir instead of his older sister - just that it was done in a peculiar way.

I must say that I agree that it's indeed very strange to change a law posthumounsly/afterwards like this, and not before it was on the agenda (before the Royal couple's children were born). But this was before my time, and it was good that the constitution was indeed changed in this matter; it just should've been earlier. And I'm glad that Victoria is indeed the Crown Princess, she will make an excellent Queen! I can't really imagine Prince Carl Philip having this role at all...
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Old 12-20-2004, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandDuchess
Just to CLARIFY - the King actually never said it this way, this is how the media immediately interpreted him. What he said (in the interview that this originally comes from, and has stuck with us) is that he finds it very strange for a Government to change such an important law in the constitution and then make it valid posthumously/afterwards - turning back the tape and stripping Prince Carl Philip of the Crown Princely title and role - not that he would like Prince Carl Philip to be Crown Prince and heir instead of his older sister - just that it was done in a peculiar way.

I must say that I agree that it's indeed very strange to change a law posthumounsly/afterwards like this, and not before it was on the agenda (before the Royal couple's children were born). But this was before my time, and it was good that the constitution was indeed changed in this matter; it just should've been earlier. And I'm glad that Victoria is indeed the Crown Princess, she will make an excellent Queen! I can't really imagine Prince Carl Philip having this role at all...
I also agree, that it is strange to change a law posthumounsly. But I´m also very sure, that the king has complained about the female succession, then when it was changed in the late 70ties. He said something like "Women aren´t good (enough) for this job". This was quoted so often, that I believe it´s true. And when you think of the interview in Amelia, that you´ve translated, then you will notice, that she was asked how this is for her, that her father wasn´t happy about the idea of female succession. And she didn´t deny, that he said that:

Wasn’t it hurting when The King said that he preferred a male heir?
- I didn’t take it personal. My father said it when there was still a male heir, it’s always hard to look into the future. My father meant that is was a change that would mean it would be a difficult role for a women to have and at the same time be a mother. But times change, and so do we.


What you mean, he has said in 2003. And the journalists reacted of course on that with writing, that he is still against Victoria as crown princess.
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Old 12-20-2004, 12:10 PM
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PS: IMO the king should clarify it once for all! I mean he should tell us, what he´s thinking now about the female succession in general.
With this comment in 2003 he has rather given the impression, that he´s still against it. And to be honest, if I would be a journalist/columnist I would have also wondered, if this comment was the one of a still sulking father of a son, the one of a still worried father (though I think there´s no reason to worry. These times princes are also involved in the education of their children. And IMO those 12-18 months breastfeeding-when you have 2-3 children-don´t carry weight) or if it really was just refered on the politicians and the unusual retroactive change of the law.
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