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  #161  
Old 12-28-2006, 12:29 AM
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The State of the Vatican City is an elective monarchy. The Pope being elected for a lifetime by the College of Cardinals.

Andorra is considered to be an elective principality. It claims two princely heads of state, the Bishop of La Seu d'Urgell and the President of France. In actuality, it is the King of France who is the rightful Andorran co ruler but this position has been occupied by the President of France since the abolishment of the monarchy.

I'm certain there are others but I can't seem to remember them at the moment.
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  #162  
Old 12-28-2006, 02:05 AM
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Tradition only goes so far. It has been highly "traditional" in all major monarchies for kings to succeed through right of conquest - not any more. The act of giving a brother precedence over a sister is an insult to me and to most modern women. Hence the changes in most European monarchies.

And nobody cares about the ruling house. Again it is traditional for houses to change. The line of succession is recalled in the numerals of the monarchs. We have moved from the Normans to the Windsors via Plantaganet, York, Lancaster, Stuart, Tudor, you name it.

I like the system to be advanced in Holland where the Princess of Orange will confer a princedom-consort on her husband. I greatly look forward to having such a system set up in the UK.
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  #163  
Old 12-28-2006, 02:28 AM
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Furthermore, Furienna, there would be as little problem in both the Queen's children inheriting the name Bernadotte as her younger brother Prince Carl Philip. In plenty of families there are two brothers, and the children of the elder and younger both inherit the family name. There is no conflict there.

But again, it really doesn't matter. The succession is what matters, not the family that sits there. The British monarchy is pre-eminent even with a great number of ruling houses.
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  #164  
Old 12-28-2006, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
I like the system to be advanced in Holland where the Princess of Orange will confer a princedom-consort on her husband
Do you mean when Princess Catharina-Amalia succeeds her father?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
I greatly look forward to having such a system set up in the UK.
The style and title of Prince Consort has already been initiated within the British institution, though. HRH Prince Albert of Saxe-Coubrg-Gotha being the first and subsequently the only (thus far) to officially hold the distinction.

HRH the Duke of Edinburgh is and has been referred to as Prince Consort given he is the spouse of a Queen regnant (Prince Henrik of Denmark another example). Although, Philip (I believe) has not been formally conferred as was Albert.

Or, do you referr to the Duchess of Cornwall?
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  #165  
Old 12-29-2006, 01:49 PM
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Madame yes, I am talking about Princess Catherine Amalia. Under the new system she will be Princess of Orange in her own right and confer a Princedom on her husband. The model is perfectly equal b/c the wife of the Prince of Orange will not be Princess of Orange but takes the different consort's title. I think, anyway, am not a Dutch royal expert!

Philip is not Prince Consort, just a prince of the UK. Prince Consort was only used once. King Consort as a title has been conferred on two kings consort, the prince who later became Philip II of Spain (but was not on his wedding day when made King Consort of England) and Bothwell, King Consort of Scotland to Mary Queen of Scots.

So it's all a bit haphazard for the consorts of Ruling Queens in the UK. No clear precedents. Easy to set up a defined system like the Dutch one.
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  #166  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
Madame yes, I am talking about Princess Catherine Amalia. Under the new system she will be Princess of Orange in her own right and confer a Princedom on her husband. The model is perfectly equal b/c the wife of the Prince of Orange will not be Princess of Orange but takes the different consort's title. I think, anyway, am not a Dutch royal expert!

Philip is not Prince Consort, just a prince of the UK. Prince Consort was only used once. King Consort as a title has been conferred on two kings consort, the prince who later became Philip II of Spain (but was not on his wedding day when made King Consort of England) and Bothwell, King Consort of Scotland to Mary Queen of Scots.

So it's all a bit haphazard for the consorts of Ruling Queens in the UK. No clear precedents. Easy to set up a defined system like the Dutch one.
Thanks for your reply, Frothy

Re Prince Philip, you shall see that I did note that Philip is not an (or the) official Prince Consort, merely has been accorded the distinction by those outside 'setting' on occasion.
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  #167  
Old 12-30-2006, 04:48 PM
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Most people do not recongize the Vatican as a monarchy being that is the center of the catholic church in most constitutions there is a seperation of church and state. And Queen Marageth II of Denmark has given her husband the title of Prince Consort in 2005 I looked up his bio on the web. Another thing the monarchies are starting to be like the republic allowing women to be head of state no matter what type of goverment it is. Andorra has two princes unlike Liechantenstein and Monaco they just have one I did forget about those others at the time I could only think of Malaysia. Sweden has changed the people look at monarchies paving the way for three other european monarchies to allow the eldest child regardless of sex to be the heir to the throne (Beligum, Netherlands and Norway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
The State of the Vatican City is an elective monarchy. The Pope being elected for a lifetime by the College of Cardinals.

Andorra is considered to be an elective principality. It claims two princely heads of state, the Bishop of La Seu d'Urgell and the President of France. In actuality, it is the King of France who is the rightful Andorran co ruler but this position has been occupied by the President of France since the abolishment of the monarchy.

I'm certain there are others but I can't seem to remember them at the moment.
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  #168  
Old 12-30-2006, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Star
Most people do not recongize the Vatican as a monarchy being that is the center of the catholic church in most constitutions there is a seperation of church and state.
I disagree (respectively) with much of your post, Next Star.

The State of the Vatican City is a sovereign state and is preceded by a elective head of state, that being the Pope and thus being an elective monarchy. Whether some wish to recognise this or not is entirely up to the indavidual but it does not change the fact that the Vatican is, and shall remain, an indapendant (having gained independence in 1929 from the then Kingdom of Italy) and absolute elective monarchy (where this non-hereditary monarch can, and does, exercise supreme executive, legislative and judicial powers within the state of The Holy See).

Quote:
And Queen Marageth II of Denmark has given her husband the title of Prince Consort in 2005 I looked up his bio on the web.
This I already noted, minus the year it was bestowed upon him. Thanks for providing the year

Quote:
Another thing the monarchies are starting to be like the republic allowing women to be head of state no matter what type of goverment it is.
This has nothing to do with Republican ideals though. It is a reflection of changes within the monarchial system in terms of sex equality (social progression).
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  #169  
Old 12-30-2006, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
The State of the Vatican City
Quote:
is a sovereign state and is preceded by a elective head of state, that being the Pope and thus being an elective monarchy.
That's right. Remember, Cardinals are Princes of the Church. It's not just a romantic label - it's a real title. Popes have a choice of being crowned or inaugurated. The Pope is an absolute ruler. The Holy See is very much an absolute monarchy with the Pope as absolute monarch.
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  #170  
Old 12-30-2006, 07:55 PM
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You have the right to your own opinion Madame Royale but the fact is the world is starting to see that a woman can be head of state regardless of what type of government it is. The Vatican has the most unique monarchy because the pope is not involued with politics or government he is the head of the roman catholic church and the Vatican. Prince Consort is not hardly used by the husbands' of reigning sovereigns execpt for Henrik of Denmark which has been mention several times before in this thread. I think that Victoria will be great as Queen of Sweden and that is good to go by birth instead of going by sex and allowing the eldest child regardless of sex to be the heir to the throne and be the future king or queen to their native land instead of allowing only males and overlooking the females as if there they do
not even exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
I disagree (respectively) with much of your post, Next Star.

The State of the Vatican City is a sovereign state and is preceded by a elective head of state, that being the Pope and thus being an elective monarchy. Whether some wish to recognise this or not is entirely up to the indavidual but it does not change the fact that the Vatican is, and shall remain, an indapendant (having gained independence in 1929 from the then Kingdom of Italy) and absolute elective monarchy (where this non-hereditary monarch can, and does, exercise supreme executive, legislative and judicial powers within the state of The Holy See).



This I already noted, minus the year it was bestowed upon him. Thanks for providing the year



This has nothing to do with Republican ideals though. It is a reflection of changes within the monarchial system in terms of sex equality (social progression).
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  #171  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:00 PM
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The Pope is very much involved with the Government of the Vatican State. He isn't involved with politics because there are no politics. He appoints his "Government" and they all take their orders directly from him.
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  #172  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:13 PM
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Okay the pope is not involued with politics but government and by the way. I am the next future monarch watch me I'll be shaking hands with Victoria and meeting their future queen someday. The eldest child heir not just the son because he is male and second way it go Sweden.
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
The Pope is very much involved with the Government of the Vatican State. He isn't involved with politics because there are no politics. He appoints his "Government" and they all take their orders directly from him.
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  #173  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:16 PM
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Back on this planet.....it's interesting to note that although Sweden has "equal rights" and other countries are now following by changes in the law, the Vatican is one monarchy that will never change the rules. You can always be sure that the monarch will be male. I'm sure Victoria will do an excellent job as Queen. She seems to cope well with being a Crown Princess. If she can be a role model to the younger generation - like Princess Ingrid-Alexandra of Norway, I can see alot of successful monarchs in the future.
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  #174  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:34 PM
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I understand why the Vatican does women to be head of the church because
in the bible it clearly states only a man can be head of the church. I agree Beatrix that Victoria holds her self up very well knowing that one day she will be Queen of Sweden and when Ingrid-Alexandra of Norway, Elisabeth of Beligum and Catharia-Amelia of Netherlands get older they can follow her example as being the crown princess. I am on this planet regardless of what you say I'll be a future monarch and rule over my domain and you will talk about me.
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Back on this planet.....it's interesting to note that although Sweden has "equal rights" and other countries are now following by changes in the law, the Vatican is one monarchy that will never change the rules. You can always be sure that the monarch will be male. I'm sure Victoria will do an excellent job as Queen. She seems to cope well with being a Crown Princess. If she can be a role model to the younger generation - like Princess Ingrid-Alexandra of Norway, I can see alot of successful monarchs in the future.
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  #175  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:37 PM
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I think that that's the benefit of Royal Houses being so inter-twined. Ingrid Alexandra can call Queen Victoria for advice and know she'll get good advice from a family member. It must make the job easier and I'm sure it's been a comfort for Carl Gustav to know that Margrethe, Harald and Elizabeth are there for him if he needs them.
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  #176  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:42 PM
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Advising others are good even some monarchs what to know what to do.Victoria as much work ahead of her being that she will be furture queen and I know that her brother and sister will support her throught her reign as queen and her mother then will be the queen mother if their mother outlives their father.
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  #177  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Star
You have the right to your own opinion Madame Royale but the fact is the world is starting to see that a woman can be head of state regardless of what type of government it is. The Vatican has the most unique monarchy because the pope is not involued with politics or government he is the head of the roman catholic church and the Vatican.

I think that Victoria will be great as Queen of Sweden and that is good to go by birth instead of going by sex and allowing the eldest child regardless of sex to be the heir to the throne and be the future king or queen to their native land instead of allowing only males and overlooking the females as if there they donot even exist.
And you have the right to your opinion Next Star (infact I dont recall questioning it), but its not so much my opinion as it is the way it is

You compared the changes of monarchial hereditary succession to a republican administration and that was (largely) an incorrect comparison. It has nothing to with it whatsoever. I did note though that it is about change within the worlds oldest institution and a clear sign of social progression (a result of, perhaps).

I agree that the first born should inherit no matter what sex. It is the way I have always thought and it is the way I shall continue to think.
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  #178  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:56 PM
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I know you were not questioning my opinion I was stating that you have the right to disagree in respectful way to my post and I am delighted that you agree with my view of the eldest child regardless of sex being the heir to the throne and not just going by the sex of a child.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
And you have the right to your opinion Next Star (infact I dont recall questioning it), but its not so much my opinion as it is the way it is

You compared the changes of monarchial hereditary succession to a republican administration and that was (largely) an incorrect comparison. It has nothing to with it whatsoever. I did note though that it is about change within the worlds oldest institution and a clear sign of social progression (a result of, perhaps).

I agree that the first born should inherit no matter what sex. It is the way I have always thought and it is the way I shall continue to think.
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  #179  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:58 PM
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Nice to have an understanding
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  #180  
Old 12-31-2006, 04:13 PM
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The discussion on the Vatican City, various forms of government, etc. has gone on long enough. Let's get back on topic please. Victoria, Carl Phillip and the Act of Sucession. Thank you.
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