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  #81  
Old 08-31-2020, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The King, and to a lesser extent the Queen, was publicly and strongly outspoken in opposition to equal succession rights for females. I can link to or post quotes in a more relevant thread, if you would like.

This is wholly speculative, but I've wondered whether their choice to bestow their firstborn daughter with a name only carried up to then by a queen consort, rather than naming her for one of the past queens (or kings) regnant, especially when followed by their choice to give their secondborn son the conventional kingly name of Carl, was an intentional signal.

I have also wondered about the King's decision to bestow a dukedom which was borne last by a king (Gustaf V) on Carl Philip, and then bestow a dukedom borne last by Gustaf V's younger brother on Victoria.

Considering that he continued to publicly criticize the amendment as late as 23 years after it went into effect, I suppose it was in character for him.
It's also clear that the king treated his son's children differently in terms of dukedoms than his younger daughter's children. While especially Carl Philip's eldest child (the rightful heir in CG's eyes?!) got ducal titles with a lot of history (and a palace attached to it). Madeleine's childeren (just like their mother) mostly got 'new' ducal titles or with a more limited royal history (probably taking into account that Leonore was the spare at that point).

And while Estelle did get a ducal title with a lot of history; her younger brother's title has only been awarded to future kings.

Estelle: Östergötland
Sune Sik, Duke of Östergötland 12th century (according to 18th-century Swedish historian Magnus Boræn)
Prince Magnus, Duke of Östergötland 1560–1595
Prince John, Duke of Östergötland 1606–1618
Princess Maria Elizabeth, Duchess of Östergötland 1612–1618 as consort and widow of Prince John
Prince Fredrik Adolph, Duke of Östergötland 1772–1803
Prince Oscar, Duke of Östergötland 1829–1872, then King Oscar II of Sweden and Norway
Princess Sophia, Duchess of Östergötland 1857–1872 as consort of Prince Oscar, then Queen of Sweden and Norway
Prince Carl, Duke of Östergötland 1911–1937, Queen Astrid of Belgium's brother, later Prince Bernadotte
Princess Estelle, Duchess of Östergötland 2012–

Oscar: Skane
Prince Carl, Duke of Scania (1826-1859), later King Carl XV of Sweden and Norway
Prince Gustaf Adolf, Duke of Scania (1882-1950), later King Gustaf VI Adolf of Sweden
Prince Oscar, Duke of Skåne (2016–present)

Alexander: Söndermanland
Erik Magnusson, son of King Magnus III, from 1302 until his death in 1318
Prince Karl, son of King Gustav I, from 1560 until he became King in 1604
Prince Karl Filip, son of King Karl IX, from 1609 until his death in 1622
Prince Karl, son of King Adolf Fredrik, from 1772 until he became King in 1809
Prince Oscar, son of King Karl XIV Johan, from before 1818 until he became King in 1844
Prince Carl Oscar, son of Crown Prince (later King) Karl (XV), from his birth in 1852 until his death in 1854
Prince Wilhelm, son of King Gustaf V, from his birth in 1884 until his death in 1965
Prince Alexander, grandson of King Carl XVI Gustaf, from 2016

Gabriel: Dalarna
Prince August, Duke of Dalarna 1831–1873
Prince Carl Johan, Duke of Dalarna 1916–1946
Prince Gabriel, Duke of Dalarna 2017–present

Leonore: Gotland
Duke Eric, Lord of Gotland (1397)
Ex-King Eric, Lord of Gotland (1439–1449)

Prince Oscar, Duke of Gotland (1859–1888)
Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland (2014–present)

Nicolas: Angermanland
Prince Nicolas, Duke of Ångermanland (2015 - present)

Adrienne: Blekinge
Princess Adrienne, Duchess of Blekinge (2018 - present)
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  #82  
Old 08-31-2020, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
I would be very interested to hear, more relevant thread or not, what CG was planning on doing if he never had a son.
Responded here.
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  #83  
Old 08-31-2020, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
It's also clear that the king treated his son's children differently in terms of dukedoms than his younger daughter's children. While especially Carl Philip's eldest child (the rightful heir in CG's eyes?!) got ducal titles with a lot of history (and a palace attached to it). Madeleine's childeren (just like their mother) mostly got 'new' ducal titles or with a more limited royal history (probably taking into account that Leonore was the spare at that point).

And while Estelle did get a ducal title with a lot of history; her younger brother's title has only been awarded to future kings.

Estelle: Östergötland
Sune Sik, Duke of Östergötland 12th century (according to 18th-century Swedish historian Magnus Boræn)
Prince Magnus, Duke of Östergötland 1560–1595
Prince John, Duke of Östergötland 1606–1618
Princess Maria Elizabeth, Duchess of Östergötland 1612–1618 as consort and widow of Prince John
Prince Fredrik Adolph, Duke of Östergötland 1772–1803
Prince Oscar, Duke of Östergötland 1829–1872, then King Oscar II of Sweden and Norway
Princess Sophia, Duchess of Östergötland 1857–1872 as consort of Prince Oscar, then Queen of Sweden and Norway
Prince Carl, Duke of Östergötland 1911–1937, Queen Astrid of Belgium's brother, later Prince Bernadotte
Princess Estelle, Duchess of Östergötland 2012–

Oscar: Skane
Prince Carl, Duke of Scania (1826-1859), later King Carl XV of Sweden and Norway
Prince Gustaf Adolf, Duke of Scania (1882-1950), later King Gustaf VI Adolf of Sweden
Prince Oscar, Duke of Skåne (2016–present)

Alexander: Söndermanland
Erik Magnusson, son of King Magnus III, from 1302 until his death in 1318
Prince Karl, son of King Gustav I, from 1560 until he became King in 1604
Prince Karl Filip, son of King Karl IX, from 1609 until his death in 1622
Prince Karl, son of King Adolf Fredrik, from 1772 until he became King in 1809
Prince Oscar, son of King Karl XIV Johan, from before 1818 until he became King in 1844
Prince Carl Oscar, son of Crown Prince (later King) Karl (XV), from his birth in 1852 until his death in 1854
Prince Wilhelm, son of King Gustaf V, from his birth in 1884 until his death in 1965
Prince Alexander, grandson of King Carl XVI Gustaf, from 2016

Gabriel: Dalarna
Prince August, Duke of Dalarna 1831–1873
Prince Carl Johan, Duke of Dalarna 1916–1946
Prince Gabriel, Duke of Dalarna 2017–present

Leonore: Gotland
Duke Eric, Lord of Gotland (1397)
Ex-King Eric, Lord of Gotland (1439–1449)

Prince Oscar, Duke of Gotland (1859–1888)
Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland (2014–present)

Nicolas: Angermanland
Prince Nicolas, Duke of Ångermanland (2015 - present)

Adrienne: Blekinge
Princess Adrienne, Duchess of Blekinge (2018 - present)
You can refer to my post at https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2339453.
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  #84  
Old 08-31-2020, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0325.Mikael.0929 View Post
No longer needed

And it didn't compare the ducal titles of the king's grandchildren - which was the point of my post.
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  #85  
Old 08-31-2020, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
And it didn't compare the ducal titles of the king's grandchildren - which was the point of my post.
It did. It gave a summary that all of Madeleine's children got dukedoms from duchies created after 1818 (Nicolas and Adrienne are the first to receive their dukedoms), while Estelle, Oscar and Alexander are granted more traditional ones. And the position in line is taken into consideration, too. Oscar of Gotland, August and Carl Johan weren't really that high in the line to the throne, but Wilhelm was.
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  #86  
Old 08-31-2020, 09:33 PM
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Out of curiosity, is Sweden one of the countries where it's now illegal to name a child Adolf? I think it's probably gone for good from the SRF; I'm just curious if it's the law saying so or not.
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  #87  
Old 08-31-2020, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Out of curiosity, is Sweden one of the countries where it's now illegal to name a child Adolf? I think it's probably gone for good from the SRF; I'm just curious if it's the law saying so or not.
Not sure, but the last person with the name Adolf in the SRF is already dead by 1973. Since then no one in the SRF has been named Adolf.
But whenever SRF names a child Adolf, Gustaf will very likely come before Adolf, as in "Gustaf Adolf".
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  #88  
Old 08-31-2020, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverpot View Post
It would be fine if you can find those quotes that say they were against a change, because it's only in later years that this has become some sort of common "knowledge" floating around on royal blogs and forums.

If any of them ever said anything like that, they would have lost their jobs, I can garantie you that. And I for one would most definately have been very upset.

In fact, the biggest Swedish tabloid, the left wing Aftonbladet, recently tried to dig up any of these alleged quotes but came up emptyhanded. To their chagrin I might add. What a juicy tidbit it would have been for republicans.
Sorry for missing this post. I am surprised that an Aftonbladet reporter had trouble finding quotes from the King as some of them are not that difficult to find, including on Aftonbladet's own website.

Please read this thread, where some quotes have already been posted, as a start. I will add to it in due time.

The King's Opinion on the Succession Laws

Edited to add: The above thread has now been merged here: The Change of the Act of Succession - 1979 Constitution Change
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  #89  
Old 08-31-2020, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0325.Mikael.0929 View Post
Not sure, but the last person with the name Adolf in the SRF is already dead by 1973. Since then no one in the SRF has been named Adolf.
But whenever SRF names a child Adolf, Gustaf will very likely come before Adolf, as in "Gustaf Adolf".
Even if Gustaf comes before it I don't see it being used in the next century or so. Too much connotation to Hitler at this point. I'd be shocked if any royal family with it in the family tree, uses it for some generations. Gustaf VI Adolf was born in 1882, well before the name became a questionable choice. And the king's father in 1906.

I also don't see any future baby Adolphes in Luxembourg, even though its a royal name (different spelling but still).
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  #90  
Old 09-01-2020, 04:31 AM
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Gustaf Adolf is sometimes referred to as Gustavus Adolphus. However, Adolphus may not even be used for a prince's name.
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  #91  
Old 09-01-2020, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Gustaf Adolf is sometimes referred to as Gustavus Adolphus. However, Adolphus may not even be used for a prince's name.
Gustavus Adolphus is never used in Swedish.
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  #92  
Old 09-01-2020, 09:05 AM
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"Today the law vaguely states that “first names shall not be approved if they can cause offense or can be supposed to cause discomfort for the one using it, or names which for some obvious reason are not suitable as a first name.”"

Pretty sure that covers it in all aspects. Also, you're not allowed to named a child Ikea, but that's trademark. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/...s-around-world
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  #93  
Old 09-01-2020, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
"Today the law vaguely states that “first names shall not be approved if they can cause offense or can be supposed to cause discomfort for the one using it, or names which for some obvious reason are not suitable as a first name.”"

Pretty sure that covers it in all aspects. Also, you're not allowed to named a child Ikea, but that's trademark. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/...s-around-world

There's a couple of thousand people named Adolf in Sweden today.
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  #94  
Old 09-01-2020, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverpot View Post
There's a couple of thousand people named Adolf in Sweden today.
Yikes.
...Are they all over 75, or it's not considered a name that would cause embarrassment to a child, then?
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  #95  
Old 09-01-2020, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Sorry for missing this post. I am surprised that an Aftonbladet reporter had trouble finding quotes from the King as some of them are not that difficult to find, including on Aftonbladet's own website.

Please read this thread, where some quotes have already been posted, as a start. I will add to it in due time.

The King's Opinion on the Succession Laws

I didn't find any valid quotes among those answers. There's one poster asserting that the King said something in an interview with Swedish television, but I can't find that.

Besides, the press would have had a field day with this if he'd actually said anything like this. And why do I not remember it?
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  #96  
Old 09-01-2020, 11:16 AM
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I have pointed out the "valid" quotes and responded to your post in that thread. I suggest moving further replies there, as this is unrelated to Swedish royal names.
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  #97  
Old 09-03-2020, 06:08 PM
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I'm still unclear as to how a child in Sweden named Adolf or even Gustaf Adolf would be viewed today. I think that given their international profile, there is a snowball's chance in Midsommar that we'll see the name in the SRF for the next few generations, if ever.
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  #98  
Old 09-05-2020, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Yikes.
...Are they all over 75, or it's not considered a name that would cause embarrassment to a child, then?
You're not far off. The average age of the 161 men who has Adolf as their first name is 74.
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  #99  
Old 09-05-2020, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
You're not far off. The average age of the 161 men who has Adolf as their first name is 74.
161 is a bit less "yikes" than a couple of thousand, anyway. Are you saying you don't believe it would be approved if someone tried to give that name to their child these days? Repeating my conviction that the SRF will not be the ones to open up this name trend again. They're kind of bad enough with "Hubertus"...
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  #100  
Old 09-06-2020, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverpot View Post
It would be fine if you can find those quotes that say they were against a change, because it's only in later years that this has become some sort of common "knowledge" floating around on royal blogs and forums.

If any of them ever said anything like that, they would have lost their jobs, I can garantie you that. And I for one would most definately have been very upset.

In fact, the biggest Swedish tabloid, the left wing Aftonbladet, recently tried to dig up any of these alleged quotes but came up emptyhanded. To their chagrin I might add. What a juicy tidbit it would have been for republicans.
You could try to find a copy of the Swedish news program Rapport from November 23, 2003, as the king said in an interview that a retroactive change in the order of succession was "lustig" (funny), and that he would have preferred to have his son as successor. The Swedish TV probably have copies saved of the interview.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...agen-ar-lustig
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