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  #1141  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
But even during the war of Wales, support for the monarchy barely dipped into the 60s.

I agree bad press is never a good thing but royals should never take their marching orders from the tabloids.
But we have to admit it was damaging. I mean look at the people who wanted a state funeral for Diana. We have to admit Diana was larger than life and was/is bigger than the monarchy. But with Spain, with social media, people will not easily forget about this. Lets hope this doesn't have a long term damage on the monarchy.
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  #1142  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:06 PM
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This survey from January 2017 was mentioned in another royal discussion board. Sofia received the highest approval rating, followed closely by Felipe, with Letizia third, Juan Carlos fourth, Elena fifth, and Cristina a distant sixth.

Support for the monarchy plummeted in 2013 following the scandals Benjamin mentions in post #1131. Juan Carlos abdicated in 2014 and support for the monarchy went back up by 2017.

Valoración de los españoles al Rey Felipe VI y la Monarquía
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  #1143  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
focus on Leonor and Felipe more as a duo
So the already TINY SRF, is 'in the public mind' reduced to one man and one child ? "What could POSSIBLY go wrong'...?
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  #1144  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:11 PM
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It doesn't have to mean ditching the others just putting some focus on Felipe and his heir doing some things together.
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  #1145  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:16 PM
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  #1146  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
So the already TINY SRF, is 'in the public mind' reduced to one man and one child ? "What could POSSIBLY go wrong'...?
Two? Three? Four? what the difference?

As of now, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia are supposed to get out of the picture according to some here.
Cristina, and her kids Juan, Pablo, Miguel and Irene have the plague
Elena is less and less involved, Felipe Frolian has been trashed in the press, and Victoria is very discreet.

Anyway with Leonor will come the end of the Bourbons in Spain, a dynasty started by Felipe V, grandson of Louis XIV, the Sun King on France. And I am less and less convinced that she will reign someday.
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  #1147  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
I'm a new member and i have been reading this thread for a while now and there are a couple of things that seems missing

First, one must understand that Spain like France Portugal Italy is latin country with its codes. It is what it is and it is a conservative patriarchal country where the respect of the elder is paramount. Those who support the monarchy as in fact the most conservative and the ones most likely to be offended by what has happened. By acting in public the way Letizia did, reflects negatively on the King who comes across like a wimp, and this is unacceptable in this society. The people who would be a bit modernist and be on the side of Letizia are generally republicans who would want to get rid of the monarchy. In effect, she is alienating the people who would support her status as Queen.

Whether she like it or not Doña Leonor is the Princess of the Asturias and she belongs to Spain. If she wants privacy, she'd better ask her husband and daughters to abdicate and they will have their privacy. Doña Elena and Don Felipe Froilan are there to pick up the responsibility if needed. You can have your cookie and eat it too.

Doña Sofia deserves respect. Letizia is queen not only because Doña Sofia stood by JC regardless of what she was going through to save the crown, but aslo because she was one of the few who supported Felipe when he decided to marry her

Those commoners who marry into royal families lack that sense of duty that is instilled into those who are born into it. They don't want to bite the bullets, they want to change the institution from within, if things don't go their way they want to divorce etc (cf The Princess of Wales). Why have a monarchy if the institution is devoided of everything that is its essence. If they want to be normal, good but then, no need for the monarchy and welcome to the republic.
Very well written post alvinking, I enjoyed reading it and agree with you entirely.

I would just add that it isn't only the married-in commoners who sometimes lack a sense of duty, many of the younger generation of royals on the scene today seem to lack it as well, or choose to ignore it when it's not convenient to their agendas. I'm afraid for the most part noblesse oblige is a thing of the past, sadly.

I look forward to reading more from you!
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  #1148  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
What a PR mess, one of Letizia's own making. This is a classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. I bet she wishes she could rewind time to a week back, and handled things more rationally instead of inciting Sofia to pique.

The real losers in this are Felipe and to a lesser extent Leonor. The people already had a bad opinion of Letizia so this didn't really change how they viewed her, it just gave them satisfied confirmation. But for the most part the Spanish were endeared to Felipe and Leonor. Now they question Felipe. If he can't handle a turbulent family how can he handle a turbulent Spain? Does he let Letizia run roughshod over his whole family? And for little Leonor, the people always felt she more like her father, but now there's talk that she's being raised from her mom's template.

As others have mentioned, pr-wise going forward, they'll have to focus on Leonor and Felipe more as a duo at family events, without Letizia doing her usual shadowing and managing of the girls. Show that while the family of 4 loves each other, the are unilateral people. They aren't flying monkeys to Letizia's 'wicked witch'. Then the public will calm down. They'll go back to talking about how warm Felipe is, and how beautiful and poised Leonor is. And if Letizia is seen as less of a micro-manager, they'll probably warm to her too, though it will take longer. In the people's eyes, domineering consort can slowly evolve to assertive, professional Queen.
That's the crux of the problem for me, this is shedding bad light in those who are not to blame for it directly i.e. Felipe and Leonor, who are the present and the future of the monarchy.

The more Leonor is seen as her father's daughter instead of Letizia's (in the public eye), the better, at least for the time being.
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  #1149  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:34 PM
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https://twitter.com/pilareyre/status/981619962858102786

Vega is Carla of Bulgaria's sister, remember that Kubrat (Carla's husband) was very close to Felipe and his sisters once upon a time and Carla was also part of that clique?

Seems like every single person that has known Letizia has something (not positive) to say about her
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  #1150  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:36 PM
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People have motives. Jealousy is usually very bitter. Letizia is Queen of Spain and that’s enough for some family and friends to get the daggers out.
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  #1151  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
Two? Three? Four? what the difference?

As of now, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia are supposed to get out of the picture according to some here.
Cristina, and her kids Juan, Pablo, Miguel and Irene have the plague
Elena is less and less involved, Felipe Frolian has been trashed in the press, and Victoria is very discreet.

Anyway with Leonor will come the end of the Bourbons in Spain, a dynasty started by Felipe V, grandson of Louis XIV, the Sun King on France. And I am less and less convinced that she will reign someday.
When Leonor marries a capetien, the Bourbons will contine. We will see what happens. The Orléans, the Due Sicile, the Parmas, the Luxembourgs, the Bussets, so many Bourbons to choose.
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  #1152  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
some family and friends to get the daggers out.
And not only them.. plenty here too [regrettably]..Their hatred is evident.
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  #1153  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Regarding Leonor - people all over social media, comments sections on news site of every political leaning, Instagram accounts, etc are talking about how rude Leonor was and how she’s clearly her mother’s daughter. And these aren’t isolated comments. The worst and most potentially damaging thing this incident has done is make many people in Spain associate Leonor with her mother. That’s not a good thing. And it’s likely completely unfair to both Leonor and her mother, inaccurate and melodramatic, but there you go. People don’t forget - in the age of social media they couldn’t forget even if they wanted to. If I were Felipe I wouldn’t be so concerned about Letizia - she is what she is at this point, good or bad, and in the end she’s just the consort - as I would be about Leonor. IMO she and just her father need to start doing some low key, non scripted events where he stands back a little and lets Leonor show everyone what a pleasant, well brought up young girl she actually is, (fingers crossed). And it should start to happen soon.
Then that says a lot more bad things about the Spanish people than the SRF. Leonor might one day be Queen, but she is still only 12 years old. If she didn't want to be an uncomfortable situation brought on by people that are far older, and supposedly wiser, than her, then she has every right to. She didn't throw a tantrum. If she didn't want to be touched, then she has a right not to be touched. I don't care if it's her grandmother or not. She handled a lot better than most 12 year olds would've. I get that there are certain expectations of her because of her future role, but I don't blame Felipe and Letizia for wanting to protect her for now so that she can be a child of her age somewhat.

Someone mentioned earlier that Leonor and Sofia seems a lot more childlike than other their age. In this day and age, that's a good thing. I well aware that there are 12 year olds that act like people twice their age. That's unnatural and I have to wonder what type of disaster they will one day become.
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  #1154  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
When Leonor marries a capetien, the Bourbons will contine. We will see what happens. The Orléans, the Due Sicile, the Parmas, the Luxembourgs, the Bussets, so many Bourbons to choose.
Not when but if
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  #1155  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:50 PM
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Posters interested in discussing the horrors or joys of commoners at court can do so in this thread: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...bles-5585.html


Posters interested in discussing the joys and horrors of agnatic-cognatic succession can do so in this thread -with an excellent overview by Mbruno:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ies-38870.html

Posters interested in the Dutch or British royal families can discuss them in the Dutch or British subforums, not in this thread which is dedicated to the Spanish royal family and their relationships.

Please note that posts in which this discussion is continued will be deleted from this thread.

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  #1156  
Old 04-06-2018, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
How has this bad press affected the monarchy?
It reduces the monarchy to a soap opera and draws attention away from all the good things the royal family does. Whatever else some of us may think about them Sofia and Letizia are both hard workers.
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  #1157  
Old 04-06-2018, 05:05 PM
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People do not assume that Felipe is like his father, as people do not assume that Sofia is like Federika. So it is absurd to say that people assume that Leonor is like her mother, is a girl who will grow and make her own way.

When the press says that Felipe is very lonely, they mainly refer to the little support he receives from his parents. The image of Juan Carlos retired touring Spain and the world of luxury site in luxury place or accompanied by his former lover, have not helped. The same does not help Sofia's hearty support for Urdangarin and her determination to put Cristina back in the palace.
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  #1158  
Old 04-06-2018, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leidi View Post
https://twitter.com/pilareyre/status/981619962858102786

Vega is Carla of Bulgaria's sister, remember that Kubrat (Carla's husband) was very close to Felipe and his sisters once upon a time and Carla was also part of that clique?

Seems like every single person that has known Letizia has something (not positive) to say about her
This, more than almost anything, is what baffles and worries me about the former Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano.

She has been dissed by members of her birth family(one who wrote a book with some ugly allegations) her colleagues and her in-laws. Where are this woman's partisans in Spain? In the Gotha? Has she been asked to be a godmother to any of the recent Royal born children...I mean she is Queen of Spain after all! How much more prestigious does it get than to have La Reina as your child's godmother?

I admittedly have not been the biggest fan of Letizia's but I have seen her being warm and affable on walkabouts and when meeting children, etc. My personal opinion is that she seems to be genuinely trying to be liked.

Posters on this Forum say that she is disliked because she is a commoner. That only makes sense for the reason the traditional aristocracy is against her.

But apparently even the "plebes" in Spain don't care for her....in the video of her heckling yesterday it was not journalists and aristo's screaming "Fuera bruja!" or whatever it was.

And no..it wasn't only older people either.

Something is not adding up here.

Any ideas/opinions are welcome.
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  #1159  
Old 04-06-2018, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post

The real losers in this are Felipe and to a lesser extent Leonor. The people already had a bad opinion of Letizia so this didn't really change how they viewed her, it just gave them satisfied confirmation. But for the most part the Spanish were endeared to Felipe and Leonor. Now they question Felipe. If he can't handle a turbulent family how can he handle a turbulent Spain? Does he let Letizia run roughshod over his whole family? And for little Leonor, the people always felt she more like her father, but now there's talk that she's being raised from her mom's template.
great comment ("If he can't handle a turbulent family how can he handle a turbulent Spain?"). i agree. one wonders.

Quote:

As others have mentioned, pr-wise going forward, they'll have to focus on Leonor and Felipe more as a duo at family events, without Letizia doing her usual shadowing and managing of the girls. Show that while the family of 4 loves each other, they are unilateral people. They aren't flying monkeys to Letizia's 'wicked witch'. Then the public will calm down. They'll go back to talking about how warm Felipe is, and how beautiful and poised Leonor is. And if Letizia is seen as less of a micro-manager, they'll probably warm to her too, though it will take longer. In the people's eyes, domineering consort can slowly evolve to assertive, professional Queen.
oh dear. they already pushed JC out because of his many dramas (safari to kill innocent elephants, his relationship with his lover corinna...) and cristina and inaki due to their shady business, now precendent indicates they should do the same with letizia.

i already said my opinion on the evolution of leonor's character. kids with mothers with such strong characters usually evolve to be calm, docile people. i think leonor's character will be less like letizia, more like felipe, but only time will tell.
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  #1160  
Old 04-06-2018, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
Two? Three? Four? what the difference?

As of now, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia are supposed to get out of the picture according to some here.
Cristina, and her kids Juan, Pablo, Miguel and Irene have the plague
Elena is less and less involved, Felipe Frolian has been trashed in the press, and Victoria is very discreet.

Anyway with Leonor will come the end of the Bourbons in Spain, a dynasty started by Felipe V, grandson of Louis XIV, the Sun King on France. And I am less and less convinced that she will reign someday.
I always felt bad with Leonor because she may not reign.
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