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  #1121  
Old 04-06-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
People conveniently forget that Franco left JC absolute power in Spain and that it was JC the one who gave that out so we could have democracy.

He and Sofia really had tough times when they came to Spain, had to deal with a lot of stuff and had to keep an eye on their backs because someone could backstab them at any given moment.

But hey, let's forget all about that and focus on the couple who has done nothing to win the favor of the Spanish people.
Indeed one must not forget the coup attempt on February 23rd 1981 when the francoist assaulted The Cortes and toook the deputies hostage. It was JC who saved democracy and made it an endearing form of government
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  #1122  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
Another video from Letizia's side in church. I guess the lip-readers will be studying what Letizia's says
(sorry if its been posted)
https://youtu.be/nZg_WhK70es
https://twitter.com/jordipoch96/stat...84839023853568
Interesting to see from this angle. Letizia wasn't, in fact, shaking hands on the side of the church that her daughter, Sofia, was on as many have said. Looks like she saw the girls with their grandmother and then crossed over to shake hands and then back and forth to block the photo from happening. Bet both ladies wish they could have a do over of those few minutes last Sunday
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  #1123  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Cristiana and Iñaki are a matter for the Spanish courts. Cristina was acquitted of any criminal charges against her (hence, she is legally innocent) and had to pay a fine. Iñaki was found guilty and is awaiting the execution of his sentence pending an appeal, which is a fundamental human right extended to all citizens in a liberal democracy. Most likely, his appeal will fail and he will go to jail. I don't see why posters here want to make a connection between Letizia's tantrum in Mallorca and Cristina, when there is none.
Because for years it’s been Cristina that the Spanish press has been mercilessly pounding, painting her as a completely evil person, printing stories about her while offering no sources or factual basis for them, printing speculation about her mental health and occasionally speculation about her minor children, in short, doing exactly the same sort of character assasination they’re now doing with Letizia, except over a much longer period, and with the sort of fervor that’s usually reserved for murderers and rapists. And certainly none of the posters on this board who have been so appalled by the out of proportion reaction to the video incident have ever voiced concern that the same hysterical mob was out of control in its reaction to Cristina’s situation.

Now, some posters have asked who benefits from the media storm surrounding Letizia. I will turn the question around and ask who has benefitted from the ongoing press lynching Cristina has received over the last several years? I would submit that it’s been Felipe and especially Letizia. You don’t have to do anything to look good in comparison to someone who’s being torn apart by the press and isn’t fighting back. You just have to sit back and let it happen. And, let’s not kid ourselves, a multitude of your smaller sins will be ignored if the press has decided to go after someone else.. having TWO evil women doesn’t fit their narrative.

Now Letizia has very publicly done something that can’t be ignored or explained away and the shoe is on the other foot. People know that, rightly or not, this isn’t something that will be forgotten - not when Inaki goes to jail, not when Cristina shows up at family events, (newsflash - no one cares), not ever. Those thirty seconds caught on video have caused an enormous amount of damage to the Spanish monarchy and to Letizia and Leonor in particular and some people are desperate to make the incident fit into the old narrative of Cristina being the source of all the problems in the family and the monarchy because that would take some of the heat off Letizia.
But this time no one’s buying it.
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  #1124  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:07 PM
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People keep saying that Letizia has disrespected the people of Spain, well in those videos I see Sofia disrespecting the very people of Spain also by the way she pulled her granddaughter *away* from someone whose hand she was going to shake......Sofia could of been polite and waited what a few seconds for her granddaughter to finish the hand shake and then ask her to pose of a picture instead of pulling her way.......that was IMHO very rude of Sofia to do that.....so who is right here? Both women here made mistakes and nobody gets a pass here........so something is boiling over between them and should be settled behind closed doors asap......a strong mediator is needed, someone who is not going to be in favor of anyone. There are strong family issues at play here for all to see and everyone is taking a side and the people of Spain are acting in a very vicious and ugly manner that shows the world just who they are.......no respect if due either lady for airing the dirty laundry in public.

Foremost is the fact that Letizia is the mother of these girls and nobody else has a say in what they do or how they are raised even if one is the future heir. I am sure Felipe will do what is best for both girls as he has shown to be a very compassionate intelligent man and father.
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  #1125  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Because for years it’s been Cristina that the Spanish press has been mercilessly pounding, painting her as a completely evil person, printing stories about her while offering no sources or factual basis for them, printing speculation about her mental health and occasionally speculation about her minor children, in short, doing exactly the same sort of character assasination they’re now doing with Letizia, except over a much longer period, and with the sort of fervor that’s usually reserved for murderers and rapists. And certainly none of the posters on this board who have been so appalled by the out of proportion reaction to the video incident have ever voiced concern that the same hysterical mob was out of control in its reaction to Cristina’s situation.

Now, some posters have asked who benefits from the media storm surrounding Letizia. I will turn the question around and ask who has benefitted from the ongoing press lynching Cristina has received over the last several years? I would submit that it’s been Felipe and especially Letizia. You don’t have to do anything to look good in comparison to someone who’s being torn apart by the press and isn’t fighting back. You just have to sit back and let it happen. And, let’s not kid ourselves, a multitude of your smaller sins will be ignored if the press has decided to go after someone else.. having TWO evil women doesn’t fit their narrative.

Now Letizia has very publicly done something that can’t be ignored or explained away and the shoe is on the other foot. People know that, rightly or not, this isn’t something that will be forgotten - not when Inaki goes to jail, not when Cristina shows up at family events, (newsflash - no one cares), not ever. Those thirty seconds caught on video have caused an enormous amount of damage to the Spanish monarchy and to Letizia and Leonor in particular and some people are desperate to make the incident fit into the old narrative of Cristina being the source of all the problems in the family and the monarchy because that would take some of the heat off Letizia.
But this time no one’s buying it.
Ok, but can you explain to me how does this damage the monarchy or Leonor? It's a family squabble. They don't get along. Big deal. People don't like each other at times, even if they are family and have to work together. This isn't remotely close what Inaki did. He actually committed a crime and embezzled money, but you are saying no one cares about that. And yet Letizia not liking her mother-in-law is something people should care about?
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  #1126  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I have a question. Why did JC and Sofia abdicate if they’re so popular?

From an outsider perspective, Felipe and Letizia seem to be doing a bang up job.
JC is far too old and his health hasn't been 100% in the last decade or so, specially his hips and bones, it was actually wise to step down and give his son the chance to reign while he was still alive.

It was not a popularity issue for JC & Sofía, specially for the latter, whom many STILL consider THE Queen.
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  #1127  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
many STILL consider THE Queen.
They, then are simply WRONG, Queen Letizia as chosen consort of the reigning monarch Felipe Vl is their Queen...
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  #1128  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:28 PM
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The elephant hunting trip and Corinna affair coming to light largely brought down Juan Carlos. Rather small things, when one considers all that has taken place during his long life. Yet, enough media scrutiny was focused on these issues that they badly damaged the standing of King Juan Carlos. Iñaki did not help.

Remembering this just adds emphasis to why the Royal family needs to do some serious PR spinning after the Easter incident. Small occasions can (and will be) blown up in the media to scandals if they are not handled properly.
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  #1129  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I have a question. Why did JC and Sofia abdicate if they’re so popular?

From an outsider perspective, Felipe and Letizia seem to be doing a bang up job.
Sofía did not abdicate. She had nothing to step down from. Popularity is also no measurement. The well-liked Emperor of Japan will abdicate. We can say that Queen Beatrix abdicated at the height of her popularity.

Imagine that Don Juan Carlos is still King today: a frail man visibly limited in his mobility. Or Grand-Duke Jean: wheelchair-bound and with limited energy. Or King Albert II who suffers deafness and a tremor. People become older and older. It is wise that in the majority of Western monarchies an abdication is an option: Spain, Japan, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and even the Holy See.
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  #1130  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Ok, but can you explain to me how does this damage the monarchy or Leonor? It's a family squabble. They don't get along. Big deal. People don't like each other at times, even if they are family and have to work together. This isn't remotely close what Inaki did. He actually committed a crime and embezzled money, but you are saying no one cares about that. And yet Letizia not liking her mother-in-law is something people should care about?
I agree with you. Family squabble happens in every family, there is no perfect family. I understand that they are public figures and linked to the constitution of Spain, but Letizia neither Leonor neither Sofia comitted a crime, it was just a family dispute. Frankly to me, the video is nothing special, I've grown up with worse. I used to ran from my paternal grandmother when I was a child, I didn't like her, not only because she was bad to my mother (her daughter-in-law) but because she was and still is a cold person. The stories my mother tells me every once in a while, would make that video looks so trivial. But Leonor likes her grandmother, it was just a bad moment, that's all.
It's a shame people are taking their family situation in something serious, dramatic, like the end of the world. If the spanish monarchy is shaken by this, christ lord, what the world as become...
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  #1131  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leidi View Post
JC is far too old and his health hasn't been 100% in the last decade or so, specially his hips and bones, it was actually wise to step down and give his son the chance to reign while he was still alive.

It was not a popularity issue for JC & Sofía, specially for the latter, whom many STILL consider THE Queen.
How has this bad press affected the monarchy?
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  #1132  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:42 PM
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You may like or you may not like Letizia, she may seem sympathetic or unfriendly ... but they are totally subjective opinions.

Iñaki Urdangarín and his wife have been tried, the first sentenced to prison, the second condemned to pay a fine to the Treasury ... Spaniards are in all our right to cancel those who take advantage of their position to steal public money. I, like all Spaniards,only wish that Iñaki go to prison and comply with the justice as any Spaniard has to do.

So to compare one thing with another is totally absurd.

Juan Carlos and Sofia fulfilled their role well in a determined and complicated historical moment... for that reason, and despite having made important mistakes, Juan Carlos was respected and protected for many years. But one can not live from the events of the past eternally, and there came a time when things went too far.

King Felipe inherited a sunken crown (for the actions of his father and the scandal Urdangarín), in a country with a very complicated institutional situation, serious corruption scandals, and has had to face the problems of forming a government or the Catalan problem. His challenges are not very different from those of his father, but instead of doing so in a country with one television and a few loyal newspapers, he has to do it in the world of social networks.

This week marked the 25th anniversary of the death of the Count of Barcelona, who, despite family confrontations, gave up his rights to support his son. In Spain, there is a general feeling that King Felipe is very alone in his complicated task, and that his family are not being the support they should be for the King of Spain.

Attacking Letizia is also an indirect and easy way to attack Felipe, because she is the strongest support he has.
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  #1133  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
How has this bad press affected the monarchy?
Any bad press affects any monarchy, which are effectively only existing by the grace of the people. Look at the War of the Waleses which lead to anni horribilii for the British monarchy.
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  #1134  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Ok, but can you explain to me how does this damage the monarchy or Leonor? It's a family squabble. They don't get along. Big deal. People don't like each other at times, even if they are family and have to work together. This isn't remotely close what Inaki did. He actually committed a crime and embezzled money, but you are saying no one cares about that. And yet Letizia not liking her mother-in-law is something people should care about?
I’m saying no one cares about Cristina attending family functions. She’s done so for years now, presumably will continue to attend events when she wants to and it’s not the “scandal” some have tried to make it out to be.

Inaki’s dealings are a completely different matter. I don’t condone what he did and expect that he will spend some time in prison for his actions. Unlike some, though, I actually have no trouble believing Cristina didn’t realize what he was doing because I know so many women - of that generation and even younger - who are well educated and have their own careers, but who are basically financially illiterate and have been brought up to expect their husband to manage the “big picture” finances while they take care of the daily expense side of things. Inaki was working with Diego Torres, who has a background that would have been reassuring to Cristina. One of the employees from the royal household was doing the couple’s taxes. Her secretary also employed by the royal household was I believe on the board of the corporation. And of course there’s the figure of JC in the background, apparently totally ignorant of his son in law’s actions and shocked - SHOCKED - at such shenanigans. I don’t buy that. I think JC knew what Inaki was doing and Cristina trusted Inaki, her father and the so called professionals they were associating with to know what they were doing. That makes her naive, even stupid, but not deserving of the pummeling she’s received for years now.

Given the much, much larger corruption issues that seem to be common in Spain, not to mention even more important issues the country is facing with regard to Catalonia, etc, I don’t think people should especially care about Inaki, Cristina OR what’s happening with Letizia. But if people only focused on what’s truly important no one would bother with the royal family at all.

Regarding Leonor - people all over social media, comments sections on news site of every political leaning, Instagram accounts, etc are talking about how rude Leonor was and how she’s clearly her mother’s daughter. And these aren’t isolated comments. The worst and most potentially damaging thing this incident has done is make many people in Spain associate Leonor with her mother. That’s not a good thing. And it’s likely completely unfair to both Leonor and her mother, inaccurate and melodramatic, but there you go. People don’t forget - in the age of social media they couldn’t forget even if they wanted to. If I were Felipe I wouldn’t be so concerned about Letizia - she is what she is at this point, good or bad, and in the end she’s just the consort - as I would be about Leonor. IMO she and just her father need to start doing some low key, non scripted events where he stands back a little and lets Leonor show everyone what a pleasant, well brought up young girl she actually is, (fingers crossed). And it should start to happen soon.
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  #1135  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Any bad press affects any monarchy, which are effectively only existing by the grace of the people. Look at the War of the Waleses which lead to anni horribilii for the British monarchy.
But even during the war of Wales, support for the monarchy barely dipped into the 60s.

I agree bad press is never a good thing but royals should never take their marching orders from the tabloids.
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  #1136  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
and easy way to attack Felipe
And yet there are even those [who purport to be Monarchists] who want him to divorce his chosen wife, causing yet further untold damage to the Monarchy, to the King, and to the young children...
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  #1137  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
But even during the war of Wales, support for the monarchy barely dipped into the 60s.

I agree bad press is never a good thing but royals should never take their marching orders from the tabloids.
I think you can not compare a deep rooted (?) monarchy as the British with the Spanish one, which has been restored four decades ago. The fractures of the Civil War and the Franco dictatorship are still open nerves in Spanish society.

Republicanism is fierce and is rooted in anti-francoism. The cord on which the Spanish royals have to do their balancing act is thinner than the cord for the British royals.
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  #1138  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
You may like or you may not like Letizia, she may seem sympathetic or unfriendly ... but they are totally subjective opinions.

Iñaki Urdangarín and his wife have been tried, the first sentenced to prison, the second condemned to pay a fine to the Treasury ... Spaniards are in all our right to cancel those who take advantage of their position to steal public money. I, like all Spaniards,only wish that Iñaki go to prison and comply with the justice as any Spaniard has to do.

So to compare one thing with another is totally absurd.

Juan Carlos and Sofia fulfilled their role well in a determined and complicated historical moment... for that reason, and despite having made important mistakes, Juan Carlos was respected and protected for many years. But one can not live from the events of the past eternally, and there came a time when things went too far.

King Felipe inherited a sunken crown (for the actions of his father and the scandal Urdangarín), in a country with a very complicated institutional situation, serious corruption scandals, and has had to face the problems of forming a government or the Catalan problem. His challenges are not very different from those of his father, but instead of doing so in a country with one television and a few loyal newspapers, he has to do it in the world of social networks.

This week marked the 25th anniversary of the death of the Count of Barcelona, who, despite family confrontations, gave up his rights to support his son. In Spain, there is a general feeling that King Felipe is very alone in his complicated task, and that his family are not being the support they should be for the King of Spain.

Attacking Letizia is also an indirect and easy way to attack Felipe, because she is the strongest support he has.
Definitely and the woman he chose as Queen is no help either.
Cristina and Iñaki made their bed and it's right to keep them apart but if the entire family (both Borbón and Grecia) is now far away from him is for a reason.
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  #1139  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I’m saying no one cares about Cristina attending family functions. She’s done so for years now, presumably will continue to attend events when she wants to and it’s not the “scandal” some have tried to make it out to be.

Inaki’s dealings are a completely different matter. I don’t condone what he did and expect that he will spend some time in prison for his actions. Unlike some, though, I actually have no trouble believing Cristina didn’t realize what he was doing because I know so many women - of that generation and even younger - who are well educated and have their own careers, but who are basically financially illiterate and have been brought up to expect their husband to manage the “big picture” finances while they take care of the daily expense side of things. Inaki was working with Diego Torres, who has a background that would have been reassuring to Cristina. One of the employees from the royal household was doing the couple’s taxes. Her secretary also employed by the royal household was I believe on the board of the corporation. And of course there’s the figure of JC in the background, apparently totally ignorant of his son in law’s actions and shocked - SHOCKED - at such shenanigans. I don’t buy that. I think JC knew what Inaki was doing and Cristina trusted Inaki, her father and the so called professionals they were associating with to know what they were doing. That makes her naive, even stupid, but not deserving of the pummeling she’s received for years now.

Given the much, much larger corruption issues that seem to be common in Spain, not to mention even more important issues the country is facing with regard to Catalonia, etc, I don’t think people should especially care about Inaki, Cristina OR what’s happening with Letizia. But if people only focused on what’s truly important no one would bother with the royal family at all.

Regarding Leonor - people all over social media, comments sections on news site of every political leaning, Instagram accounts, etc are talking about how rude Leonor was and how she’s clearly her mother’s daughter. And these aren’t isolated comments. The worst and most potentially damaging thing this incident has done is make many people in Spain associate Leonor with her mother. That’s not a good thing. And it’s likely completely unfair to both Leonor and her mother, inaccurate and melodramatic, but there you go. People don’t forget - in the age of social media they couldn’t forget even if they wanted to. If I were Felipe I wouldn’t be so concerned about Letizia - she is what she is at this point, good or bad, and in the end she’s just the consort - as I would be about Leonor. IMO she and just her father need to start doing some low key, non scripted events where he stands back a little and lets Leonor show everyone what a pleasant, well brought up young girl she actually is, (fingers crossed). And it should start to happen soon.
That is SPOT ON.
Letizia is seen as an overbearing mother who doesn't leave her kids alone and doesn't allow them to interact with her father's side of the family AT ALL.
Nothing would be better than to see Leonor alone with Felipe or by herself a bit, to show herself up and to show Spain that she's nothing like her mother.
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  #1140  
Old 04-06-2018, 04:01 PM
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What a PR mess, one of Letizia's own making. This is a classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. I bet she wishes she could rewind time to a week back, and handled things more rationally instead of inciting Sofia to pique.

The real losers in this are Felipe and to a lesser extent Leonor. The people already had a bad opinion of Letizia so this didn't really change how they viewed her, it just gave them satisfied confirmation. But for the most part the Spanish were endeared to Felipe and Leonor. Now they question Felipe. If he can't handle a turbulent family how can he handle a turbulent Spain? Does he let Letizia run roughshod over his whole family? And for little Leonor, the people always felt she more like her father, but now there's talk that she's being raised from her mom's template.

As others have mentioned, pr-wise going forward, they'll have to focus on Leonor and Felipe more as a duo at family events, without Letizia doing her usual shadowing and managing of the girls. Show that while the family of 4 loves each other, they are unilateral people. They aren't flying monkeys to Letizia's 'wicked witch'. Then the public will calm down. They'll go back to talking about how warm Felipe is, and how beautiful and poised Leonor is. And if Letizia is seen as less of a micro-manager, they'll probably warm to her too, though it will take longer. In the people's eyes, domineering consort can slowly evolve to assertive, professional Queen.
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